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NaoEthelia

"You only need to do 65 percent of the challenge to complete Nightwave" means 65 percent of returning players are effectively screwed.

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57 minutes ago, NaoEthelia said:

 

 

But making Nightwave series permanent would not make any difference, though.

Even if it was permanent, players would still need to put in the effort, and they would not get a free lunch without truly dedicating yourself for it for 6-7 weeks. You would get your lunch for your work, while those who joined later, be it new players or returning players would have to work even harder to catch up! 🙂

This is how I know you aren't understanding what's being posted.

We are in series 1.  The first series.  Nightwave is staying, the tiers are staying, the reward mechanic is staying, Nora is staying, the only thing that is changing (as far as we know) will be the flavor of the series villain, the rewards rotate.  That's it.  Returning players will be able to get as far as they can in series 1 and then enjoy series 2, 3, 4, etc. they just wont be doing series 1 after the 15th.

You're suggesting we keep the Saturn Six prisoners as is, static, stagnant, never changing.  That is clearly something the players don't want, and since DE put in the time and effort to make Nightwave, the Dev's don't want it either.

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I have mixed feelings about this, 

I do not know how OP is co relating the time of starting the nightwave series  and the % of players missing out on rewards, he may want to rephrase or recheck his calculations. 

About the rewards:

I am a firm believer of "you should have been there if you truly want it, else it just isn't important enough" and let's face it baring the mods (which will likely be repeated, and the umbra forma which is just a early adoption reward right now) the other things are cosmetic which I have absolutely no issue being exclusive ,as it does not affect gameplay in anyway, DE also has a habit of reusing existing assets as rewards for random tactical alerts and events so I expect it to be available as well. It is a badge of having no life... I mean... determination for a few hours a week.

Now the part about making it permanent or selectable. 

I do not want it to be permanent, but I also do not want people to miss out on the story, so a "previously in nightwave" which only gives you access to the story option would be welcome.

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1 hour ago, Fire2box said:

Someone got rank 30 in nightwave long before DE intended anyone to I bet. They just AFK'ed in Orb Vallis and waited for fugitives to spawn, capped and repeat. 

 Then that person is absolutely mad, but I gotta respect the patience

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Dedicated players need a reward for being dedicated...

Rofl:crylaugh:

So, any player who began playing warframe Christmas 2018, or early 2019, and played through to now, is a more dedicated player? Than somebody who's played the game for years; oh sure, I can see that. :facepalm::clap:

 

23 hours ago, Alexandrious said:

Naw man you got this week and two more left. You can do it. Plus the spawn rate of the fugitives will likely increase again next week for the final episode.  So if the next two weeks has some weeklies you just cannot do, you should be able to supplement what you can do with the fugitives. 

Hope so, fingers crossed.:smile: 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-22 at 1:01 PM, NaoEthelia said:

Having to do only 65% of the challenges effectively means that if any returning players have passed the 35% leeway, which in this case means Week 5 - Week 10 they are effectively screwed over.

By "screwed over", I imagine you mean "can't acquire the Saturn Six cosmetic items and an Umbral Forma, none of which are important to player progression". They can still play the Series for Cred, cosmetics, Potatoes and unique Mods. They just can't get everything. Anyone who doesn't play the game at all in over a month, can't have access to every single one of the rewards.

Yeah, Nightwave isn't perfect. But what is your definition of a fair cutoff point for players to acquire every reward? How many weeks should players be allowed to ignore this game completely and get the same rewards that those who regularly play do? Seven weeks? Eight weeks?

Edited by SenorClipClop
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Posted (edited)
On 2019-04-22 at 1:04 AM, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

First time I've seen a thread title need a TL;DR.

It's not even that long... nor was it a contribution to the discussion.

Though... the title doesn't make much sense @NaoEthelia , but I understand what you're trying to say.

_______

I kinda agree with this. Nightwave is really annoying at this point, and challenges are extremely repetitive and time-consuming, meaning that by the time you've done them all you're too burnt out to play the actual rest of the game. After I get might stuff (unless Nightwave ends first) I'm taking a long break from this game.

Edited by (PS4)thefallenloser

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On 2019-04-22 at 12:01 AM, NaoEthelia said:

Having to do only 65% of the challenges effectively means that if any returning players have passed the 35% leeway, which in this case means Week 5 - Week 10, they are effectively screwed over. The slight deadline expansion is good to have as it extends the deadline to roughly Week 12, which reduces the minimal requirement to 55% of all challenges, but the numbers are still not good. It still means that roughly 55% of returning player (which in this case Week 6 - Week 12) are effectively too late to join. Nightwave as it is, is currently hostile towards long-term returning players, the very playerbase that you want to keep, and you don't want to screw them over, do you?

Let's fix that.

Nightwave series and any series in the future should be permanent. Let us pick routes on what we want to work towards. This would effectively remove the pressure to continuously play this game, and not only this will be a QoL feature for players that may not have that much time on their hands to begin with, it would also still welcome any returning players with a reasonable chance to catch up what they have missed.

PS. Please keep this thread civil.

Wow... the lack of thought in this is amazing to me. They arent going to miss anything. The Nightwave REPLACED alerts. Which means, when this *season* ends, the next season starts. So if they missed it this time around, they'll get it next time. What you said is tantamount to saying people miss out on Baro. He does return and his offerings cycle so eventually, you will get it all. That's how Nightwave is.

 

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On 2019-04-22 at 12:04 AM, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

First time I've seen a thread title need a TL;DR.

Yeah, reading is difficult for millenials. Back in my day kids had to learn how to avoid run-on sentences. Now they have to teach kids that sentences can be longer than 140 characters.

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On 2019-04-22 at 8:34 AM, Zeclem said:

im pretty sure every reward will return again in the future. thats how de works with exclusive stuff. 

Primed Chamber would say otherwise.

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Just now, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Primed Chamber would say otherwise.

exceptions exist. 

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On 2019-04-22 at 12:01 AM, NaoEthelia said:

 long-term returning players, the very playerbase that you want to keep

They left though.

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On 2019-04-22 at 1:17 PM, iG4B3 said:

Dedicated players need a reward for being dedicated. No casual is min-maxing enough to make use of an Umbral Forma, and hard to get cosmetics SHOULD be reserved for those willing to put in the hours to grind them. Don't make hardcore players feel like their time is wasted on a game that waves prestige in their face then passes it out to everyone like a damn participation medal. This game does the 'easy mode', beginner-friendly pandering enough, already.

 

except when it comes to the new player experience lol

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13 hours ago, NaoEthelia said:

But nothing will change by making nightwave permanent!

They need to bring back the alerts system, it worked a lot better, and was far more newbie friendly than night wave is.

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14 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I have mixed feelings about this, 

I do not know how OP is co relating the time of starting the nightwave series  and the % of players missing out on rewards, he may want to rephrase or recheck his calculations. 

About the rewards:

I am a firm believer of "you should have been there if you truly want it, else it just isn't important enough" and let's face it baring the mods (which will likely be repeated, and the umbra forma which is just a early adoption reward right now) the other things are cosmetic which I have absolutely no issue being exclusive ,as it does not affect gameplay in anyway, DE also has a habit of reusing existing assets as rewards for random tactical alerts and events so I expect it to be available as well. It is a badge of having no life... I mean... determination for a few hours a week.

Now the part about making it permanent or selectable. 

I do not want it to be permanent, but I also do not want people to miss out on the story, so a "previously in nightwave" which only gives you access to the story option would be welcome.

I agree the title for this thread seems fairly misleading if not fully inaccurate/false. 

As for rewards however, we already know DE has no intent for any of the rewards in this series to remain exclusive, and while I understand the though process behind wanting exclusive objects (though i frankly see the mindset as unhealthy) it's probably more beneficial not to go that way. DE get enough complaints about how compulsory/mandatory the series feel as is, without the explicit expectation of the rewards never returning, the response would only spiral if things went the way of further penalties for not constantly being available and interested. 

In regards to being able to experience the story of prior series, I believe Steve already stated past series would be stored in the codex upon their conclusion for all to access so nothing is lost in that regard. 

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and there are people complaining about the rewards you get after rank 30 being not as good as before. Obviously there should be 100 ranks and there be no way to get to 100 without 24/7 farming.

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2 hours ago, Firedtm said:

They need to bring back the alerts system, it worked a lot better, and was far more newbie friendly than night wave is.

Not even remotely true in any capacity.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Not even remotely true in any capacity.

Night wave forces you to play game modes you must play with conditions that your not able to meet all the time. Example the 40 minutes of survival.

I do not remember alerts ever forcing people to do that other than the events that came around.

 

So instead of just say not remotely true in any capacity, try to make a point with a argument or debate instead of just a statement that has no backing.

Edited by Firedtm
grammar fix
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1 hour ago, Firedtm said:

Night wave forces you to play game modes you must play with conditions that your not able to meet all the time. Example the 40 minutes of survival.

I do not remember alerts ever forcing people to do that other than the events that came around.

Alerts forced people to constantly be watching the game for an alert with the item they wanted, and if the alert was on a tile they didn't have they had to organise a way to get there. Additionally there was no way to tell where rewards would appear, you might get a Ceramic Dagger blueprint from Pluto Interception, or a helmet for a lategame Warframe from Capture on Mercury. It took me years to finally get all the auras and level all of the (absolutely trash) alert-exclusive weapons, and by then I was sitting on a decent pile of Primes and other much better stuff.

Nightwave lets you choose which missions you want to do and when, and although some of them aren't feasible for a newbie in a week, a great deal of them are. The Elite Weekly missions are specifically designed for veterans, and without them you can still earn several ranks a week. "Do 3 missions of a type" or "mine 10 rare gems" isn't exactly challenging. Nightwave has also allowed us to directly purchase Orokin Catalysts and Reactors without having to wait some unknown period of days/weeks for an Alert so I think that's great too.

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On 2019-04-22 at 1:17 AM, iG4B3 said:

Dedicated players need a reward for being dedicated. No casual is min-maxing enough to make use of an Umbral Forma, and hard to get cosmetics SHOULD be reserved for those willing to put in the hours to grind them. Don't make hardcore players feel like their time is wasted on a game that waves prestige in their face then passes it out to everyone like a damn participation medal. This game does the 'easy mode', beginner-friendly pandering enough, already.

 

I agree with this, but only partly.

Apparently, there is a wolf mask cosmetic in his drop table. Add to that, I've only ever seen the wolf 4 times total, one of which was a mod, and the other two times was 2 Handles and a Head (the remaining time I died due to not having any decent weapons). Having things like that be time-gated really bothers me (though with that said, I have no clue if he will remain in the game, or if things will change, so take it with a grain of salt).

Honestly, I feel like my time was wasted, simply because I expected to see him more than just four times. I expected at least once a week. Despite being a bullet sponge, he was at least interesting to face when doing missions.

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5 hours ago, Cubewano said:

. As for rewards however, we already know DE has no intent for any of the rewards in this series to remain exclusive, and while I understand the though process behind wanting exclusive objects (though i frankly see the mindset as unhealthy) it's probably more beneficial not to go that way. DE get enough complaints about how compulsory/mandatory the series feel as is, without the explicit expectation of the rewards never returning, the response would only spiral if things went the way of further penalties for not constantly being available and interested. 

In regards to being able to experience the story of prior series, I believe Steve already stated past series would be stored in the codex upon their conclusion for all to access so nothing is lost in that regard. 

There is a difference between penalizing  a player and not rewarding them, a lot of players seem to get these mixed. 

One is penalized for performing actions that are against the rules. 

One is deprived of rewards when one does not perform the necessary actions needed to achieve them.

All the exclusive (timed exclusive cause as I mentioned everything does come back) high level objects are cosmetics, please explain (outside of fashion frame) how it will be penalizing the player according to you? 

And I must have missed the statement from Steve, thanks for letting me know. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Firedtm said:

Night wave forces you to play game modes you must play with conditions that your not able to meet all the time. Example the 40 minutes of survival.

I do not remember alerts ever forcing people to do that other than the events that came around.

So instead of just say not remotely true in any capacity, try to make a point with a argument or debate instead of just a statement that has no backing.

The thing is, this has already been discussed and debunked a dozen times over.

For new players, Alerts were incredibly bad, 90% of the time taking place on planets deep into the Starchart and offering pitiful (Even for new players) rewards that remaining 10% of the time.  For everyone else, Alerts were near worthless, 90% of the time taking place at times when they're not playing, and were far more restrictive in that they required a specific mission to be completed.  EVERY SINGLE ALERT EVER forced people to play arbitrary missions they might not be able to or want to do.

Meanwhile, a new player is not expected to be able to complete Elite missions at all, and many normal missions are out of their reach as well.  However, most normal missions are doable at just about any point of the game, e.g. "3 Captures" or "Mine 6 rare things" or even "Just straight-up kill dudes" over the course of a full week, to be done at their leisure and while progressing through the game in other areas.  This causes steady and guaranteed progression toward relevant rewards, including slots which are amazingly beneficial to a new player more so than any other type of player.  Being able to choose rewards via a token system enables both new and old players to remove most of the randomness, meaning nobody is at the mercy of "Oh an alert for that helmet you wanted and hasn't shown up for the past two months just ended two minutes ago well too bad try again three months from now." 

The sole exception where Alerts were more rewarding were the rare Oxium alert, and even those are replaceable by certain missions that spawn Oxium Ospreys like Chargers.  And of course a new player has no need for Oxium in any sort of large quantity, so new players aren't really relevant to that argument.  Oh, and the Treasury Ships, but I can only recall two ever happening from the time I started playing to the removal of random Alerts.

Edited by Vox_Preliator
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8 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

There is a difference between penalizing  a player and not rewarding them, a lot of players seem to get these mixed. 

One is penalized for performing actions that are against the rules. 

One is deprived of rewards when one does not perform the necessary actions needed to achieve them.

All the exclusive (timed exclusive cause as I mentioned everything does come back) high level objects are cosmetics, please explain (outside of fashion frame) how it will be penalizing the player according to you? 

And I must have missed the statement from Steve, thanks for letting me know. 

The abject reality of the situation doesn't matter, perception is reality and so long as people perceive the situation as penalizing it is how the situation will be treated as. And people have already begun to air those grievances so we shouldn't pretend we don't know where further exclusionary practices would go.

People like to feel things are accessible, you make their thing less accessible and they're going to feel like they are being gone at. 

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