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C104

Tenno are the bad guys

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2 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

One person's "terrorist" is another person's "freedom fighter".

One person's "terrorist" is another nations "proxy force" to destabilize regions.

ftfy

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you mean an elite group of mercenaries working to keep the warring factions and a sentient plague in check.

to this end we 
assassinate important leaders
destroy weapons plants
capture enemy supplies
sabotage their industry 
and kill their forces 
capture and interrogate high ranking officers
all while terrifying and demoralizing their troops

and we do this to prevent the solar system from being taken over by 
a group of space natzies whos soldiers are all inbred clones
a merchant cult that has more in common with locusts than normal merchants whos fighting force is comprised of organic robots and artificially bred humans whos only purpose is to serve the corpus and whos labor practices would make the coal companies of the 1940's-60s blush.  
a sentient virus/nanite swarm that will not stop until it has consumed all life that is and will be.  

we are not the bad guys nor could we be called good.  we are like Batman, not the saviors that the system deserves but the saviors that has.  

we can't be terrorists as we are not doing this for our own gain/ideas we are doing a job and are being paid in part with the spoils of our deads.  if anything we are pirates or depending on how you play robin hood stealing the ill-gotten gains of the corrupt corpus and the war profits of the grineer.  

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Ignoring the question if you're being serious or just one hell of a bad troll,

 

terrorists perform their... acts... for the simple purpose of terrorizing others in a desperate attempt to gain control over things they don't even understand, by ruling over others through fear.

 

The Tenno are trying to uphold the balance of power. At least they were meant to do so. If they were mere terrorists they wouldn't be fighting for Corpus and Grineer every now and then, but instead they would just kill them. Of course there are many ways to look at the whole deal, but if you really want to mark a faction as the "true" bad guys, it's gotta be the Sentients.

Grineer are just in it for the territory and military might, Corpus are in it for the money, Infested are just... there, and Sentients screw everyone over equally.

If anything, the Tenno are mercenaries bound by some sort of codex.

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29 minutes ago, TeaVice said:

One person's "terrorist" is another nations "proxy force" to destabilize regions.

ftfy

well, the populace would likely rather not be slaves of the corpus or the grineer so good thing.  how ever we still are soldiers of fortune

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3 hours ago, C104 said:

Assasinations
Mass exterminations
Interception and stealing of data
Attacking high intrest targets (such as spy vaults)
Freeing their fellow criminals
Capturing hostages
Having a central command figur 

you realise this also describe militaries as well right?

Assassinations? militaries do them, look up the failed attempt on Fidel Castro in the Bay of Pigs, 1961.

mass Exterminations? any Axis force during WW2.

Interception and Data Theft? that's what certain branches of military organizations do.

high interest targets? you bet.

freeing fellow soldiers? that's liberating a POW camp.

Capturing Hostages? what else would you do with an enemy military commander who might possess valuable intel? shooting them does no good.

having a Central Command figure? Generals, Admirals, Emperors etc.

while it's true the Tenno aren't a military, they still run clandestine operations, sort of more like the actual ninjas (Shinobi) of Feudal Japan. there are no good or bad guys in Warframe, only shades of grey. Tenno are an army without a people to serve, as we were duped into killing the Orokin, and none of the other factions will align with us. Ostrons and Fortuna Workers are the only "people" we currently serve, and even then, it's not exclusive.

glorified mercenaries is what we are.

 

 

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Almost all factions in the game are bad guys.

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If you look at them by the standards of our world, then yes, maybe. But if you look at them by the standards of Warframe's universe...yeah no way. The Grineer, Corpus, Infested, and Sentients are all way worse by any metric. While the motivations of the Tenno are kind of a question mark at the moment--in part because they're the stand-in for the player and in part because the Lotus never talks about it--it's hard to deny that, generally speaking, they've got their hearts in the right place. They go after big names--both people and projects--in the various factions when they step too far; they defend colonists and other regular(ish) people like the Ostrons and Solaris; and otherwise don't interfere with the politics of the system, abuse their power, etc. (From a story standpoint, at least.)

Is there blood on their hands? Yes, definitely. Lots of it, even. But most of that blood belongs to people who are working to oppress others, and not the oppressed themselves. Civilians are quite often the targets of terrorist actions; the Tenno on the other hand actively avoid such things. So if you're going to argue that the Tenno are evil because they wage (reactive) war the way wars are typically waged--and it's worth noting, for the record, that the Tenno use guerilla tactics because they have to, because there's very few of them compared to the main factions--then...I dunno. Seems like a tough sell.

At worst, I think you could say they're bad guys fighting off even worse guys. But they pretty clearly have the moral high ground relative to basically everybody else in Warframe.

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Go fight Sargus Ruk. he's on Tethys, Saturn

let him go through his whole dialogue instead of just killing him

he covers Tenno pretty accurately.

 

then go visit Trade Chat, yup he's right.

 

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The Tenno are undoubtedly the pawns of the bad guys in this narrative. How? It's been obvious from the start. They are monstrous, murderous creatures that have come from the void - deployed to commit countless atrocities against the Infestation, by the Imperialist Scum (Orokin). The Infestation have been working hard to create a real paradise (Nihil Erit); they strive for peace everywhere by making all become one in an ultimate gesture of enlightenment and altruism through the obligate transcendence and alleviation of the prescribed burdens of living, i.e. suffering. The awful Tenno have been sent by selfish speciesists and profiteering xenophobes to interfere with this noble quest! 

Please support true harmony! Help the Infestation by joining them today and make this awful system far better a place in which to reside! One in which, we can assure you, we all get along. 

Where you see war, we see salvation. Where you see living, we see suffering. Where you see murder... uhh... we also see murder. What you call infestation, we call moral occupation and existential fidelity. What we call pests, you call freaky space ninjas in funky suits. We need more pesticide. 

Cogito, ergo nihil erit. 

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4 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

One person's "terrorist" is another person's "freedom fighter".

Shut your mouth, you self-proclaimed vigilante sycophant...costume-wearing freak...wait, your point is valid.

But you are still a freak.

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2 hours ago, Atsia said:

If we're the bad guys, I sure as hell want to know what that makes the Grineer and Corpus. They do  everything listed as bad in the OP and even worse, as listed by @Corvid
We may do terrible things, but the alternative is far far worse.

The “Lotus” WOULD brainwash you Into thinking that.

Right before she tried to wipe you from existence as you reached out to her...

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2 hours ago, dreadgame said:

The point of mortal existence is to be the bad guy or die and become a prey. The point of humanity is to make rationalizations for this and try to distance self from guilt.

We're all bad guys.

Well THAT’S one HELL of a Way to pull the Sophist’s card and absolve yourself of any and all responsibility to your fellow man.  The Metropolis be damned.  Right on par with fire ants...wait.  No it isn’t...

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Good and bad is a matter of perspective.

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Hmm maybe it's just the clear situation of a "total war".

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5 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

One person's "terrorist" is another person's "freedom fighter".

 

5 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

they're more mislead....which could be another comparison


more importantly, can't see if OP is taking this seriously or not....

I agree with these two.  Especially in light of what we found out about he Sentients.  A situation that is very similar to the old anime Casshan/Casshern and the "bad guy" BK-1.  The bad guy who was really trying to restore the Earth.  Hmmmm

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A terrorist is a non-state entity acting in his own interests.
A soldier is a state entity acting for a state.
A freedom fighter is a non-state entity acting on behalf of a state he wishes to be.

 

It is unclear who the Tennos are actually acting FOR.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

you realise this also describe militaries as well right?

Assassinations? militaries do them, look up the failed attempt on Fidel Castro in the Bay of Pigs, 1961.

mass Exterminations? any Axis force during WW2.

Interception and Data Theft? that's what certain branches of military organizations do.

high interest targets? you bet.

freeing fellow soldiers? that's liberating a POW camp.

Capturing Hostages? what else would you do with an enemy military commander who might possess valuable intel? shooting them does no good.

having a Central Command figure? Generals, Admirals, Emperors etc.

while it's true the Tenno aren't a military, they still run clandestine operations, sort of more like the actual ninjas (Shinobi) of Feudal Japan. there are no good or bad guys in Warframe, only shades of grey. Tenno are an army without a people to serve, as we were duped into killing the Orokin, and none of the other factions will align with us. Ostrons and Fortuna Workers are the only "people" we currently serve, and even then, it's not exclusive.

glorified mercenaries is what we are.

 

 

Bear in mind that we probably would have turned on the Orokin anyways. Tenno culture of the past is described in lore as being very similar to Feudal Japan. Honor and Dignity. I doubt Inaros' betrayal of the Orokin went unnoticed by the rest of the Tenno, and highly believe the Tenno were aware of why he did it, hence why we so readily turned on the Orokin at Outer Terminus. The inner corruption of the Orokin probably offended us in the past, resulting in our kind destroying them the (literal) first opportunity we had.

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Mercenaries are non-state entities working for a state. And it is unclear who the Tennos are working FOR.

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11 minutes ago, ZelUrk said:

Mercenaries are non-state entities working for a state. And it is unclear who the Tennos are working FOR.

We work for loot.

Well, and also for mass murder.

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6 hours ago, C104 said:

What makes a terrorist?

What does ISIS do that makes them terrorists?

Assasinations
Mass exterminations
Interception and stealing of data
Attacking high intrest targets (such as spy vaults)
Freeing their fellow criminals
Capturing hostages
Having a central command figur 

What do the Tenno do?

Assasinations
Mass exterminations
Interception and stealing of data
Attacking high intrest targets (such as spy vaults)
Freeing their fellow criminals
capturing hostages
Having a central command figur (lotus)

You can clearly see the similaritis beetween the two terrorist organistions, but there is more!

Terrorist are characterised by fighting against governments. In the tennos case it is the grenier and corpus, while certanly opressive governments they still protect their citicens. The tenno threaten their homes and attack military bases and research facilitys regularly. The tenno are also not fighting for the people the corpus and grenier opress, but for their own gain. This is showcased by them working as mercenaries for both factions for a small reward. One might argue that they help the ostron and the people of fortuna but are they doing it for the kindness of their heart? NO They are like the syndicates (fellow terrorist organistions example: New Loga alias Space Nazis) and only work for rewards like deadly weapons (Zaws,Kitguns) or illegal substances (cetus whisp, rare christals, mushrooms). The tenno have no intrest in the simple people and are only after more fighting power. 

What are these terrorist even fighting for? With their technologie and suport of the lotus the tenno could simply have remained on lua, hidden in the void and build their own society. Instead they chose to attack the foriegne governments with only one goal in mind. DESTRUCTION (and clem) Their only goal is to become better at what they love: KILLING All they do is perfect the art of murder. Each tenno is always after new weapons, warframes and mods. Why? To kill more, to kill faster, to have more fun killing the simple soldiers of the grenier and corpus. 

The tenno are an terrorist organistaion who wants to install chaos in the orogin system, there only motivater is their murderus intend that convinced them to kill their former masters the orokin and now the empires of th grenieer and corpus.

Right but a lot of nations and civilizations have done all of that and more.

How many times did nations try to assassinate dictators?
How many times have there been mass exterminations like the World Wars?
How much is there interception and stealing data, like the constant and growing battle over cyber security of the internet?
How many interest target attacks of high ranking officers has there been?
How many freed prisoners have there been like the recently freed women and children from ISIS grips?
How many hostages of informants have there been captured for interrogating?
How many of have central figures like all organized armies do?
How many of wars have been between governments?
How many wars threaten the livelyhood of people within their establishment? 

Your logic does not follow. There is a difference between freeing an enslaved citizen and freeing convicted criminals. Just because they are both doing the same thing from the eyes of the hostiles does not make the context of them one and the same. This is a both a conjunction  fallacy and an association fallacy, common but nonetheless flawed logical fallacies people sometimes make.

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6 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Bear in mind that we probably would have turned on the Orokin anyways. Tenno culture of the past is described in lore as being very similar to Feudal Japan. Honor and Dignity. I doubt Inaros' betrayal of the Orokin went unnoticed by the rest of the Tenno, and highly believe the Tenno were aware of why he did it, hence why we so readily turned on the Orokin at Outer Terminus. The inner corruption of the Orokin probably offended us in the past, resulting in our kind destroying them the (literal) first opportunity we had.

Agreed.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure that the only reason it took so long was because of the Sentients and Infested. Better not to overthrow the corrupt government whilst they're presently helping you by providing vital infrastructure.

Speaking of infrastructure, this is most likely why we make no moves to end the war. There's literally nothing in place to replace the Grineer or the Corpus. The syndicates aren't qualified - the Perrins aren't big enough and would have to rehire most surviving Corpus (Basically just restarting it with most of the remaining corrupt businessmen). New Loka are... New Loka. Suda would at best not bother too much and at worst turn into Glados. The Veil and the Arbiters are too dogmatic. Steel Meridian means well, but Military Coups never end well. Bad infrastructure is better than none, especially with a dangerous plague like the Infestation that needs constant, system-wide monitoring that the Tenno can't provide. 

If we squashed the other factions - which we likely could, at least at the level of 'destroy their leadership and dissolve the faction as a united whole', we couldn't sustain it. Instead we keep them in war and by and large away from civilians to let the factions attrition each other down to nothing, whilst keeping the infestation in check. Over time we provide 'incentives' to change the system by culling seriously bad offenders and anyone that goes after civilian populations.

2 minutes ago, ZelUrk said:

Mercenaries are non-state entities working for a state. And it is unclear who the Tennos are working FOR.

We jump with minimal individual loyalty to whichever 'states' (syndicates, smaller colonies) are in both greatest need and present the least threat to the above. Nothing about Mercenaries state they have to have only one employer.

Plus they do technically run the Relays and there's implications that there are explicitly Tenno-allied colonies we rarely visit, lore-wise, because we try to avoid bringing weapons of war to civilian populations unless necessary, like Cetus or Fortuna, so in a sense we're also a part of the standing military for the Tenno allied state.

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oh its one of those threads again. guys, read the cephalon fragment entries. tenno are the only faction that helps the innocent civilian colonies, and we often go out of our way to do so. we dont get paid by anybody to kill eidolons for example. while yes, game mechanics do include loot(duh) none of the npcs "pay" us. 

and some people appearently think that we have enough power to end both corpus and grineer easily. we dont. we just dont. 

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1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

oh its one of those threads again. guys, read the cephalon fragment entries. tenno are the only faction that helps the innocent civilian colonies, and we often go out of our way to do so. we dont get paid by anybody to kill eidolons for example. while yes, game mechanics do include loot(duh) none of the npcs "pay" us. 

and some people appearently think that we have enough power to end both corpus and grineer easily. we dont. we just dont. 

This, they are literally trillions while we tennos are like few millions.

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If we're the bad guys, then what the hell are megalomaniacs like Vay Hek or greedy lunatics like Nef Anyo?

Because if those are the "lesser of two evils" compared to the Tenno then you might as well say the Infested are the heros of the story because they want to eat everything.

Trying to paint anyone as a evil in an all out war is propaganda until one side says uncle or doesn't exist.

If the Tenno are evil then the only way to save the solar system would be to have the sun go supernova, which is Nihilism to an absurd degree and I will have no part in that.

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