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[DE]Drew

Plains of Eidolon Remaster: Update 24.8.0

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3 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

Also, a new Arbitrations reward has been added: the elusive Aura Forma Blueprint! Craft an Aura Forma to modify an Aura slot on a Warframe to be compatible with any Mod Polarity.

Given the crafting cost and drop chance, it would have been a lot better if it added 18 capacity (like Steel Charge) by default and let users swap any aura of their choice. Without that, it doesn't have much value or use. Maybe in 1-2 frames but eh...

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31 minutes ago, lainverse said:

Oh, look, new obvious griefing strategy: join Arbitration mission, die every minute or two after each revive.

Does number of such "deaths" is limited? I hope it is limited.

Heck no need for intentional griefing for this new gimmick to fail, Drones don't spawn as often as they did.

 

Had a match when someone died fairly early and by the time the rest of the team left (some 12 waves later) only 3 Drones had spawned, so we carried around pointless debuffs... Joy.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

Plains of Eidolon Remaster: Update 24.8.0

Arbitrations ‘Iteration 1’ Changes

Our goal with this update is to maintain the challenge that Arbitrations promised, while also ensuring that if you or a teammate is knocked out, they still have a chance to jump back into the fight! Iteration 1 brings the discussed Revival mechanic and enemy scaling changes to mirror normal Endless mission modes. We will be watching how these changes play out as we plan to iterate further on the mode in the future, with our next review for Arbitrations focusing on reward pacing.

BE KIND, REVIVE
The rules of Arbitration death have shifted: players are still downed with no bleedout timer, but a Revive tower is now placed at the player’s spot of death. If any squadmate is awaiting Revival, the Arbitration Drones will begin dropping unique pickups known as a “Resurgence Burden”. These pickups function similar to Index points (otherwise known as “Financial Stress”), debuffing the players who carry them. 

In order to revive a player, 5 of these Resurgence Burdens must be taken to their tower simultaneously. These 5 pickups can be delivered by one or multiple squadmates, but cannot be “dropped off” at the tower - it’s all or nothing!

longer Rotations, less life support for Survival missions, and Arbtitration Drone AI are my biggest issues. I'm one of the players who actually plays the mode pretty often. You guys really missed some obvious stuff that needs to be looked at tho. Think about this please... 

If the problem with doing normal endless missions was the "tedious" part of spending an hour+ to get to the content players wanted to experience, why would you try to fix that problem by creating a mode with more tedious elements? Those elements end up being a very similar to just waiting that hour+ in normal endless. Most of the time, you just don't want to stay very long because so much of that time isn't enjoyable. 

I was mainly looking forward to Survival, since that's what I do normally when I want to play endless. With Arbitrations, I only really like Excavation and Interception. Those modes are so much more efficient than anything else, because the longer rotations don't really do anything. 15 minutes(= 1 Rotation) into an Arbitations Survival is so crazy because it would normally be 3 Rotations. So "twice as long" actually feels three times longer than normal Rotations. 

Anyways, thank you for revisiting Arbitrations and reworking the enemy scaling, but reviving players wasn't a big issue IMO. Something makes me think debuffing players in a mode like that will be a bad idea anyways, but I guess I'll see in a sec. Just please give us normal rotations so the modes will be more balanced. You can keep Excavation and Interception exactly how they are, but Survival and Defense should have normal rotations IMO.  

Edited by BL4CKN0ISE
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Hildryn breaks custom obstacle courses, please fix. Also, could we get a Radial Javelin rework?

 

 

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You know, if they don't ever plan of doing the one thing every players who does Arbitrations really wanted: make then have normal durations.

 

A good compromise would be that at every 10 waves, minutes, etc we get 2 rewards.

 

2 Vitus essences and 2 rolls from whatever rotations we are at, seems fair to me.

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3 hours ago, SQUAKO said:
  • Rotation rewards all suck, pure endo that can be earned three times faster doing a couple runs of vodyanoi.  Cool mods and ephemera I guess.
  • Add ALL types of rivens, Primary, Shotgun, Secondary, Kitgun, Melee, Zaw, redeemable for Vitus Essence in Arbitration Honors.  Actual tangible rewards are pretty lackluster and there would be no reason to do them unless you wanted a bunch of the cosmetics.
  • Add Kuva to be redeemable for Vitus Essence in Arbitration Honors.  Add Kuva to the rotational reward pool.

More chill than Vodyanoi. I like Arbs for Endo.
If they made all Rivens purchasable from Arb then Sorties stop being played.
If Kuva is added then all the Kuva content stops being played. Also, f-kuva. I do NOT want to see Kuva as a reward.

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4 forma and 10 nitain, that's not that bad considering what it does. You can get that 10 nitain just getting the rank up the prestige twice for the 30 wolf credits to buy the 10 nitain. That's really not hard, you can do that from 1 week of challenges from nightwave. and the forma, I'm surprised it doesn't cost 5 forma. I don't see any issues with that considering that it makes the aura slot a multi-polarity.

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Fix Sanctuary Onslaught. For some reason I'm not getting any focus even after killing enemies with abilities.

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2 hours ago, Dark_Lugia said:

With much, much luck you´ll get 4 relics and a few credits, not more but most of the time less.
In that 22min you can simply run Ukko/Void in 40s-1min and that at least 15 times (if you have a very slow pc/loading times) and you have a 100% relic drop chance. Open them and you have enough void traces for at least 2 rads (which is the average in eso), but at least 11 more prime parts thnan farming in eso and you get resources while running Ukko.
I would never ever ever ever recommend anyone to farm relics in onslaugth, that simply not worth it.
That´s what´s making this mode so bad, i get stuff i would never want to get there.

unko only works when there is a prime unvaulting and if you have a fast frame and you don't mind the slog (my valk gets better efficiency out of ESO than void capture, and I don't want to kill my self at the end of it.)
for the now you only have to run a few relics to get what you want instead of many for the traces (not everyone has endless free time and pre-ranked radiants are a massive time saver)
there are 2 reasons for doing ESO the loot which is best in class (amongst all endless missions) and focus/leveling for which only interception and adaro can compare
 

2 hours ago, Dark_Lugia said:

But loading between zones will alway add up to 2more minute

it takes you 15 sec to load into a new instance of the mission.  due to ping/operator related bugs, I have been loaded into a new instance with all abilities still active the time was less than 10, and I don't have a fast load time with my 5400Rpm hard drive.  also, this statement discounts unko being a better farm. 

 

overall I and players like me get more for our time In ESO (assuming the host is not a wimp and stay for the entire rotation but for some reason, the game gives it to the trin with on one, unranked weapon equipped who will leave at round 2-3 depending on the skill of the saryn and what faction spawns).  

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18 minutes ago, Drivrius said:

Heck no need for intentional griefing for this new gimmick to fail, Drones don't spawn as often as they did.

 

Had a match when someone died fairly early and by the time the rest of the team left (some 12 waves later) only 3 Drones had spawned, so we carried around pointless debuffs... Joy.

Most likely they spawned/fallen in some fun place like ponds on the sides on Orokin maps which exist in every second room. When drone falls in one of these it just stays there unable to fly away for some reason.

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@SQUAKO

I agree that excavation is the most worthwhile. But I do not agree with much else.

Firstly, you should speak for yourself. I will never believe you have polled all the arbitration players and have statistics of what "the majority" think.

I do not completely disagree with your ideas, but I believe you want too many rewards in one place, too easily.

Adding normal rivens to the rewards will just de-value all the rivens people have paid thousands and literally more thousands of plat for. So I see this as a really bad idea.

Adding kuva to the rewards (the arbitration store and the reward rotation drops, I bundle them into "rewards") might work, but the main source for kuva should be Kuva survival and kuva siphon. Doing arbitrations for kuva should suck in comparison.

I have the same thoughts for Endo farm. Why should arbitrations give more endo than Vodyanoi? I do not see any reason to increase endo rewards to make Arbitrations as good as or better than Vodyanoi.

I am divided when it comes to changing the rotation time and setup. But given a choice I would definitly keep the current system over your suggested system. Because you would be getting rewards too quickly.

 

I was pretty content with the old arbitrations. The main reason being the perma death that kept most of the public game Leeching players (who just want to be carried) away.

Sorry, I can't do easy to read formatting like you. Having a quote of your post took up too much space with my poor skills.

 

Good job DE!

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Frendh said:

Adding kuva to the rewards (the arbitration store and the reward rotation drops, I bundle them into "rewards") might work, but the main source for kuva should be Kuva survival and kuva siphon. Doing arbitrations for kuva should suck in comparison.

I think about 3500 kuva at 40% drop chance in rotation c in the current interval would be ok

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4 hours ago, SQUAKO said:

Hi, I’m SQUAKO.

I want to address what a majority of arbitration players are thinking and their opinions before this update on the current state of Arbitrations.

Basically, to give you the rundown, Arbitrations suck for various reasons:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  • Because arb rotations are 2 normal rotations, mission types like defense are completely not worth doing (10+ minutes) compared to literally everything else (10 minutes survival, 10 minutes interception, 8 minutes defection, 6-10 minutes infested salvage, 4-8 minutes excavation).  Every main Arbitration spammer can agree excavation was the best one to run (bonus points for infested), and defense/survival took too long (or were too ‘boring’).
  • Rotation rewards all suck, pure endo that can be earned three times faster doing a couple runs of vodyanoi.  Cool mods and ephemera I guess.
  • Vitus Essence rewards turn out to be only buying the Ayatan Amber Star Blueprint, Power Donation, and the Veiled Archgun Riven Mod. (Excluding cosmetics of course, because ThE ReAl eNdGaMe iS FasHioNFrAmE).
  • Arbitration drone AI sucks because they cause enemies to get stuck across the map (unless someone uses a form of enemy radar).

 

 

And with this update, solutions I have to solve most of the reasons why Arbitrations suck can be summed up to:

  •   Reveal hidden contents

     

    • Change arb rotational rewards to be 1 normal interval with the reward pool being AABBCCCCCC… to match the ABCCCCCC….  This would make playing arbs more worth your while and earn more rewards for your time (especially since without the reduced level scaling I wouldn’t want to sit around for an hour with a bunch of level 200 enemies)
    • Add ALL types of rivens, Primary, Shotgun, Secondary, Kitgun, Melee, Zaw, redeemable for Vitus Essence in Arbitration Honors.  Actual tangible rewards are pretty lackluster and there would be no reason to do them unless you wanted a bunch of the cosmetics.
    • Add Kuva to be redeemable for Vitus Essence in Arbitration Honors.  Add Kuva to the rotational reward pool.
    • Have arbitration shield drones permanently under the effects of an enemy radar so they function properly and run to you (solving the “enemies stuck across the map” bug)
    • Bind Vitus Essence to account like how cracking relics do so crashing or aborting the mission early doesn’t throw out all your hard earned work.

     

     

If you feel arbitrations can truly improve, I highly advise checking out my future post below to check out and upvote (if you like my ideas) or give an argument about.  But until then, we can ALL agree arbitrations right now are pretty cut and dry.

My thoughts on actually reading this update:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Any chance people who made a bunch of stars previously can get refunded some Vitus Essence?

we've done it

 

Here's my current thoughts running around the new update:

I do not support Vacuum based mods automatically giving you Resurgence Burdens.  Make it a walk-on feature.  PLEASE.

HOLD ON, ARCHGUN RIVENS ARE 25 VITUS ESSENCE EACH? That's 4+ hours worth of grinding for a veiled archgun riven.  You know, the weapon that's only useful in Profit Taker?

And for some here are the images to the new items

  Reveal hidden contents

ZkMy6c8.png

Oh and here is your new aura forma (kudos to the guy a few pages in the forum thread)

  Reveal hidden contents

S3O11vg.png

 

Chill. The original post states the next set of changes will be reward pacing related.

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4 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

Plains of Eidolon Remaster: Update 24.8.0

BE KIND, REVIVE
The rules of Arbitration death have shifted: players are still downed with no bleedout timer, but a Revive tower is now placed at the player’s spot of death. If any squadmate is awaiting Revival, the Arbitration Drones will begin dropping unique pickups known as a “Resurgence Burden”. These pickups function similar to Index points (otherwise known as “Financial Stress”), debuffing the players who carry them. 

In order to revive a player, 5 of these Resurgence Burdens must be taken to their tower simultaneously. These 5 pickups can be delivered by one or multiple squadmates, but cannot be “dropped off” at the tower - it’s all or nothing!
 

No, just no. This is going to create a whole slew of problems: (Keep in mind i havent tested this out yet)

1) If the player is down because either he overextended himself and got himself killed or decided to rambo and got himself killed or some other reason. You want the rest of the team to be burdened to revive this person? This is bad design.

2) This can be exploited. This could be abused for afking. This is going to bring more toxic behaviour into arbi. Get rid of no time out counter. Double the normal counter. The NEEDS to be a counter.

3) There needs to be a revive limit. otherwise this can further be exploited for forma'ing. People bringing is gear to level and expect others to revive them when they go down. 

You guys should play the game and experience some of the devious and creative ways people can be in abusing the system and that is exactly what these are opening up for. 1 life rule was fine as is. It punished those that tried to abuse the system and did not play as a team and those that were prepared never saw it as a problem.

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9 minutes ago, Whitestrake0 said:

50 Vitus essence for a emote, fat lol

I would have hesitated at 20 Vitus... 10 would make more sense.

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Since you're currently trying to overhaul Arbitration, please, PLEASE take a good look at the Arbitration drones themselves. In their current form, they've got some issues, and at least in my opinion, they're a much bigger reason for me not to want to do arbitration than the perma-death or high level.

 

1. They're really bad for color-blind people. This is probably the thing that you're most likely to change, but seriously... Those energy waves don't show up well at all for some of us, which can lead to all sorts of problems. If something's shielded by them, and not within about 10 feet of me, I cannot tell that it's protected unless I hit it with something.

 

2. They push people towards certain weapons. I've seen so many people run things like the Arca Plasmor here specifically to counter these annoying things. They have relatively decent AI, are small and hard to hit, they tend to hide behind enemies, they still don't have the best hitboxes, and they are extreme priority targets thanks to their aura, so bringing an AOE weapon to deal with them is always going to feel better than trying to kill them with something more accurate. And since Abritration handles death so harshly, and since the Cautious Shot mod is completely worthless on anything but the tankiest of frames, there's very little practical options in what you can bring to counter them.

 

3. They add yet another reason to stay away from the squishier Warframes. There's a degree to which they share this issue with nullifiers, but things that ignore abilities are annoying to deal with, and in some ways are even worse than ones that just remove them. This is a problem for a lot of frames, but let's go with what's maybe the worst of them for this problem: Let's say there's a Limbo, and one of these goes inside his bubble. You then have three options. You can ask him to drop his bubble, which if it's on an excavation machine will probably result in that thing's destruction, so generally a bad idea. You also can step outside of the bubble to try and destroy it, but depending on Limbo's bubble-size that might not be even possible depending on where you are. And you can swap to operator to try and destroy the drone, but operator's aren't all that hard-hitting even with the best amp, and you just buffed how fast things level up here, and not everyone knows you can do this because Limbo mechanics aren't something that everyone who plays this game knows well, even at high levels, so this option's kind of iffy, especially in a pug.

So, that's a problem, and it's not one that's specific to Limbo, he's just the one who makes this the most awkward with it's inclusion. Having a bunch of things suddenly ignore CC is annoying or outright dangerous for literally anyone who's not a tank-based frame, and those are the ones who already tend to thrive in arbitration, and would continue to do so whether or not these things existed. In fact, because these things only make things immune to abilites, and don't strip ones protecting players like nullifiers do, these add in yet ANOTHER reason to go a tank frame here.

 

So, please. Take a look at these guys. While none of their issues make the mode unplayable, even with the stuff they counter, they're just kind of annoying, bad for color-blind people, and help push you into using only certain weapons and warframes here, some of which would already be suggested here due to the high-level enemies. They need to be changed in some way, such as a more visible energy color, a larger size, a different effect or one that also hits tanking abilites, or even just straight up removed. I don't think there's anyone who'd be sad to see them gone, and honestly, I think there's quite a few a people who would like the option to just jump into a level 100 survival without having to deal with any additional gimmicks.

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Welp. Time to grab my rice hat, snacks and a pillow cuz an Archgun riven costs 250 minutes of time in-mission to farm at base before mission variance is added in. And the emote? I lol'd but I guess it's a nice dump cuz we've definitely been playing Arbitrations far too much up to this point; it's such a fun part of the game.

The only gamemode that seemingly didn't get strictly harder with this update is Interception, and that's probably where I'll be spending most of my time solo if I lack a squad for Excavation and if none of us feel like napping through survival.

Good luck getting this system to have positive results for public matchmaking. I highly anticipate the reports after the study period for these terrible changes is over.

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With all the never ending cosmetics, will the appearance tabs ever extend beyond C? Hundreds of cosmetics items but only 3 appearance slots.

 

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Posted (edited)
vor 31 Minuten schrieb spirit_of_76:
Spoiler

unko only works when there is a prime unvaulting and if you have a fast frame and you don't mind the slog (my valk gets better efficiency out of ESO than void capture, and I don't want to kill my self at the end of it.)
for the now you only have to run a few relics to get what you want instead of many for the traces (not everyone has endless free time and pre-ranked radiants are a massive time saver)
there are 2 reasons for doing ESO the loot which is best in class (amongst all endless missions) and focus/leveling for which only interception and adaro can compare
 

it takes you 15 sec to load into a new instance of the mission.  due to ping/operator related bugs, I have been loaded into a new instance with all abilities still active the time was less than 10, and I don't have a fast load time with my 5400Rpm hard drive.  also, this statement discounts unko being a better farm. 

 

overall I and players like me get more for our time In ESO (assuming the host is not a wimp and stay for the entire rotation but for some reason, the game gives it to the trin with on one, unranked weapon equipped who will leave at round 2-3 depending on the skill of the saryn and what faction spawns).  

 

Why does it only work if there´s an unvault? We currently don´t have an unvault, still 100% relic drop (And Nova/Volt are easy to get, so you are always sub 1min and you don´t have to be a speedrunner or wasting energy pads)

Spoiler

unknown.png

And people dont have time to open relics? But they have time to waste 20minutes in eso? You can maybe even sell the common staff and buy your wanted prime part.
And eso loot isn´t the best XD it´s one of the worst drop tables for relics way to low drop chance for axi, to high chance for photora/weapon parts in rot a/b.
And if i go there for leveling i won´t stay for 8 zones

Spoiler

unknown.png

I have less than 15 sec loading time into new parts of the mission, but you have to wait 30s to abort, you need time to reach the portal, the portal isn´t always spawning instant, etc. and you are running ukko solo not with someone else XD another player will always slow you down.

And saryn doesn´t require skill, trust me: i was the saryn in my 91 runs and there wasn´t anything challenging by pressing 1, than 3, than the left mouse button and 4 while repeating  the 4 press every 15s. And as i said, nearly noone stays beyond zone 4, because everything is max ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Dark_Lugia

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Hopefully Iteration "2" addresses the actual reason people don't like doing them which from reading a lot of the last thread about these changes is nothing to do with the lack of revive

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19 minutes ago, _Akasha said:

Chill. The original post states the next set of changes will be reward pacing related.

That's where they should have started, the new "mechanic" is nothing but a bandaid for their inaction towards fixing Host migration issues. While at the same time providing more platforms for players to grief each other... Not to mention, if those drops from drones are auto-pickup, ending melee vs drones...

 

12 minutes ago, HisokaXEveryone said:

I think there's quite a few a people who would like the option to just jump into a level 100 survival without having to deal with any additional gimmicks.

This! So much this! Arbitrations would be fine if they were just that, high level missions from the start, so you don't have to spend 50 minutes just waiting for enemies to ramp up, and add the single death rule for extra challenge, and that would have been a fun game mode. But no, DE had to go full 5 year old and start adding annoying gimmicks, because for DE annoying == challenging apparently.

Because, lets see, where's the "challenge" in:
The Wolf? Annoyingly high HP.

The Profit taker? A clusterduck of annoying adds.
Eidolons? Probably having to use the Tenno... Well those are actually pretty well desgined...
The exploiter? Well, that one is quite easy, i guess the "challenge" is enduring the whole thermia fissures part before the boss...
Arbitrations? Gimmicks.
ESO? The efficiency gimmick.
Everything else? There's no challenge before level 100... Past that, you get a bit of challenge and fun, then you hit the scaling wall, and you're basically just bashing your head against it...

 

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5 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

BE KIND, REVIVE

LOL. Was just doing some excavation. On the way to the exit, one guy went down. Two others picked up debuffs and quickly followed. I was just standing on the exit LOLing. Pretty funny new system. I like it.

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