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Zarista66

Saryn needs a nerf, or a tweak, or something

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4 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

How in the name of ballas' wank arm do frames that rely solely on their abilities (or flat out have no buffs) to damage get better damage when the targets are flat out immune to the abilities? Unless you think vor, hek and their padros are bosses, they arent, they are "timed events" at best. Bosses are the Eidolons and Orbs, the closest a assassination target gets to a actual boss instead of terrible mess is Salad5 (and KDT, tho she too is a buggy mess/best done by just walking in solo and punching her ugly face into the wall).

Wolf doesnt seem to be immune to exalted weapons.

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17 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

How the #*!% do frames that rely solely on their abilities (or flat out have no buffs) to damage get better damage when the targets are flat out immune to the abilities? Unless you think vor and hek are bosses, they arent, they are "timed events" at best. Bosses are the Eidolons and Orbs, the closest a assassination target gets to a actual boss instead of terrible mess is Salad5.

That's like your opinion man. but the fact you still state that most frames are useless against bosses is a lie. also Orbs is where inaros shines there. so you missed that too. also orbs and eidolon are the worst boss fights. They're painfully boring  and annoying to fight when a cluster#*!% of enemies show up and down teammates happen every five secs because the attacks from the bosses  are just too unpredictable to see. I ran eidolons MANY times last summer and I never want to fight one ever again.  I took on orbs once and based off what I said about team mates and the design of the fight. I don't want to ever do that again either. 

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Are people still seriously posting nerf requests for frames? I main an Oberon because i like his overall feel and tankiness, especially with adaptation i feel like a sentient at times, and i'm usually not the top damager , but i don't really mind. So what if a Mesa or a Saryn or a Volt can nuke an entire room? When it comes to high (100++) level missions that's where we can see what warframes and players are made of. I recently ran a low level (30-40) fissure mission with a Volt and was immediately berated for being overpowered. Seriously? OP in low level mission? and with a Volt on top of everything?. People who have no idea of how the game works or are new to the game should really do their homework before coming here and posting nerf this nerf that nonsense. The only nerf requests i can accept and understand are the ones that refer to game breaking mechanics and exploits and Saryn isn't one of them.

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5 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

That's like your opinion man. but the fact you still state that most frames are useless against bosses is a lie. also Orbs is where inaros shines there. so you missed that too. also orbs and eidolon are the worst boss fights. They're painfully boring to fight and annoying to fight when a cluster#*!% of enemies show up and down teammates happen every five secs because the attacks from the bosses  are just too unpredictable to see. I ran eidolons MANY times last summer and I never want to fight one ever again.  I took on orbs once and based off what I said about team mates and the design of the fight. I don't want to ever do that again either. 

1) No, by literal definition, warframe objectively had no real boss fight till eidolons (and even then they just barely qualify as a test of acquired skill)

2) Again no, all frames are just as good against the 2 groups unless they have a self buff for raw damage, everything else is player preference.

3) Either way, you still didnt make a counterpoint to the original statement.

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15 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Are people still seriously posting nerf requests for frames? I main an Oberon because i like his overall feel and tankiness, especially with adaptation i feel like a sentient at times, and i'm usually not the top damager , but i don't really mind. So what if a Mesa or a Saryn or a Volt can nuke an entire room? When it comes to high (100++) level missions that's where we can see what warframes and players are made of. I recently ran a low level (30-40) fissure mission with a Volt and was immediately berated for being overpowered. Seriously? OP in low level mission? and with a Volt on top of everything?. People who have no idea of how the game works or are new to the game should really do their homework before coming here and posting nerf this nerf that nonsense. The only nerf requests i can accept and understand are the ones that refer to game breaking mechanics and exploits and Saryn isn't one of them.

>game breaking mechanics is bad

>players using saryn in eso to exploit xp and to get into deeper waves without the need of teams. 

can't have your cake and eat it to. one of these things are going to change. its only a matter of when the saryn fan boy's start REEEing about it. ill be laughing in the background. ^^ 

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4 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

Have fun nerf herding and not understanding that balance is not the only thing that matters in a game.

Wrong.

Balance is very important. I don't play this game just to have 1 person in a team of 4 play it for me by mindlessly spamming 1 button, deleting rooms, leaving me with nothing to do besides pretend I'm a roomba as I clean my way to extraction. It's bad enough DE has an extreme fear of giving veterans a proper endgame (24 hour timegated trials wasn't one of them), and if they're not going to give us an endgame that merits needing stupid strong powers like Saryn has, then they need to get nerfed to be more in line with the star chart.

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vor 20 Stunden schrieb Zarista66:

The fact that this powerful of a frame continues to exist is simultaneously good and bad. I feel like this needs some form of adjustment. Don't kill her off, but I think something to nerf her mapwide, infinite scaling, Corrosive-proccing damage abilities is in order.

 

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1 minute ago, xmegarockx said:

aslo nerf equinox too because slash procs are too strong

Equinox is not far off from being another press-4-to-win abuse frame. She'd be the next go-to cheese frame if Mesa and Saryn get nerfed, because her day-form 4 stores damage while active.

So yes, she should be nerfed next. A change to how her 4 builds up damage, lowering the charged amount gained per kill, would go a long way.

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23 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

>game breaking mechanics is bad

>players using saryn in eso to exploit xp and to get into deeper waves without the need of teams. 

can't have your cake and eat it to. one of these things are going to change. its only a matter of when the saryn fan boy's start REEEing about it. ill be laughing in the background. ^^ 

 If you think Saryn,especially after her rework, is op and an exploit you seriously don't know how to play the game.

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15 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

 If you think Saryn,especially after her rework, is op and an exploit you seriously don't know how to play the game.

My hildryn, mesa, inaros would like to have a word with you. I preety can solo all content with all of these frames in shorties or what ever. This game needs a rework with its dmg and scaling system. Watch what you say, noobie.

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3 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Wrong.

Balance is very important. I don't play this game just to have 1 person in a team of 4 play it for me by mindlessly spamming 1 button, deleting rooms, leaving me with nothing to do besides pretend I'm a roomba as I clean my way to extraction. It's bad enough DE has an extreme fear of giving veterans a proper endgame (24 hour timegated trials wasn't one of them), and if they're not going to give us an endgame that merits needing stupid strong powers like Saryn has, then they need to get nerfed to be more in line with the star chart.

No, I am not, and you're in no position to state anyone else is wrong, as you're being utterly wrongheaded from the word go. You're not even arguing against what I've said. You think you are, but what you're presenting is basically a non-sequitur.

Let me spell this out for you: You aren't just arguing balance. You're invoking multiple different aspects of game design, some that I already invoked AS A COUNTER ARGUMENT, as one homogeneous blob you're focusing on as "balance." You're also ignoring the massive, overarching problem that straddles the line between balance and game mechanics, and exists completely separate to any frame in the game, a problem that is largely responsible for why the devs dropped that massive buff patch and all these reworks to begin with. You're demonstrating zero awareness that you're even doing this, with the exception of EinheriarJudith here trying to push the bigger problem under the rug when someone tries to mention it. 

People like you destroy things because you're utterly incapable of building anything. You're not going to accomplish anything meaningful with the way you're approaching this. You wont, because you can't. You'll get Saryn nerfed into dysfunctionality (like Ember, like Valkyr was once upon a time, like so, so many that came before Saryn) and then you'll immediately move the goal posts and start crying about something else... And you'll do this in a circular manner, trashing absolutely everything that you come across, because in your myopic and hyper focused view of things you're utterly blind to the forest among the trees.

Stop letting perfect be the enemy of good, for starters, and then learn to think laterally. People have been attempting this man-with-a-hammer approach for decades now and it's never once produced anything better than mediocre results.

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5 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

No, I am not, and you're in no position to state anyone else is wrong, as you're being utterly wrongheaded from the word go. You're not even arguing against what I've said. You think you are, but what you're presenting is basically a non-sequitur.

Let me spell this out for you: You aren't just arguing balance. You're invoking multiple different aspects of game design, some that I already invoked AS A COUNTER ARGUMENT, as one homogeneous blob you're focusing on as "balance." You're also ignoring the massive, overarching problem that straddles the line between balance and game mechanics, and exists completely separate to any frame in the game, a problem that is largely responsible for why the devs dropped that massive buff patch and all these reworks to begin with. You're demonstrating zero awareness that you're even doing this, with the exception of EinheriarJudith here trying to push the bigger problem under the rug when someone tries to mention it. 

People like you destroy things because you're utterly incapable of building anything. You're not going to accomplish anything meaningful with the way you're approaching this. You wont, because you can't. You'll get Saryn nerfed into dysfunctionality (like Ember, like Valkyr was once upon a time, like so, so many that came before Saryn) and then you'll immediately move the goal posts and start crying about something else... And you'll do this in a circular manner, trashing absolutely everything that you come across, because in your myopic and hyper focused view of things you're utterly blind to the forest among the trees.

Stop letting perfect be the enemy of good, for starters, and then learn to think laterally. People have been attempting this man-with-a-hammer approach for decades now and it's never once produced anything better than mediocre results.

If de isnt going to fix enemy scaling and the dmg system. More of these threads will pop up. Also can you saryn mains stop S#&$ting on frames like Octavia. It's only more ironic to hear half of you crying about one frame getting nerfed. But want to get others nerfs instead. Its childish and idiotic.

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Just now, moostar95 said:

If de isnt going to fix enemy scaling and the dmg system. More of these threads will pop up. Also can you saryn mains stop S#&$ting on frames like Octavia. It's only more ironic to here half of you crying about one frame getting nerfed. But want to get others nerfs instead. Its childish and idiotic.

lol no. If Saryn gets nerfed, we're talking down EVERYONE with us. And the Ember mains will join us. If you don't like this, get on our side because otherwise YOU'RE next.

Nihilism, baby! 🤡

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Just now, XaoGarrent said:

lol no. If Saryn gets nerfed, we're talking down EVERYONE with us. And the Ember mains will join us. If you don't like this, get on our side because otherwise YOU'RE next.

Nihilism, baby! 🤡

I'm so glad I dont play saryn with you people. This doom and gloom mindset is cancerous.

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Just now, moostar95 said:

I'm so glad I dont play _____ with you people. This doom and gloom mindset is cancerous.

Let's play a fun game, fill in the blank with another frame that's been nerf bombed in the past!

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15 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

No, I am not, and you're in no position to state anyone else is wrong, as you're being utterly wrongheaded from the word go. You're not even arguing against what I've said. You think you are, but what you're presenting is basically a non-sequitur.

Let me spell this out for you: You aren't just arguing balance. You're invoking multiple different aspects of game design, some that I already invoked AS A COUNTER ARGUMENT, as one homogeneous blob you're focusing on as "balance." You're also ignoring the massive, overarching problem that straddles the line between balance and game mechanics, and exists completely separate to any frame in the game, a problem that is largely responsible for why the devs dropped that massive buff patch and all these reworks to begin with. You're demonstrating zero awareness that you're even doing this, with the exception of EinheriarJudith here trying to push the bigger problem under the rug when someone tries to mention it. 

People like you destroy things because you're utterly incapable of building anything. You're not going to accomplish anything meaningful with the way you're approaching this. You wont, because you can't. You'll get Saryn nerfed into dysfunctionality (like Ember, like Valkyr was once upon a time, like so, so many that came before Saryn) and then you'll immediately move the goal posts and start crying about something else... And you'll do this in a circular manner, trashing absolutely everything that you come across, because in your myopic and hyper focused view of things you're utterly blind to the forest among the trees.

Stop letting perfect be the enemy of good, for starters, and then learn to think laterally. People have been attempting this man-with-a-hammer approach for decades now and it's never once produced anything better than mediocre results.

And you're talking to me about spewing non-sequitur? All you did was spout insults and pretended that's an argument. Practice what you preach, dude.
 

15 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

You'll get Saryn nerfed into dysfunctionality (like Ember, like Valkyr was once upon a time, like so, so many that came before Saryn) and then you'll immediately move the goal posts and start crying about something else... And you'll do this in a circular manner, trashing absolutely everything that you come across, because in your myopic and hyper focused view of things you're utterly blind to the forest among the trees.

I don't have to do a single thing, people who abuse Saryn and Mesa will do all of the work for me. Mirage spamulor died because it got abused, spin2win atterax got a soft nerf because it got abused (not good enough if you ask me), 1shot eidolon Chroma got nerfed because it got abused. Hell, the poster child of cheese Ember got nerfed, because players couldn't keep their finger off her 4 and cruising through missions while she passively killed everything in her path. DE doesn't have to listen to anything either of us has to say about balance, they have things in the game's back-end that collects usage data, and they most likely rely on that to determine balance passes.

Here's some of that data for you:

4 of the top 6 frames for high mastery players are literally press-4-to-win frames, 1 spams iron skin, and the other spams invisibility and disarms. I wonder why that is. Can't be because they all have a single button they can press that trivializes every mission they play in, can it?

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4 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

Let's play a fun game, fill in the blank with another frame that's been nerf bombed in the past!

Way to get off topic buddy. What's wrong, eso made your fav frame more cancerous to play with others. The fact that people are xp camping and not killing at all. 

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5 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

And you're talking to me about spewing non-sequitur? All you did was spout insults and pretended that's an argument.

I'm sorry you feel insulted. But if that's how you're going to choose to look at this, then I'm afraid we have nothing to say and this is simply a power struggle.

Way to get off topic buddy. What's wrong, eso made your fav frame more cancerous to play with others. The fact that people are xp camping and not killing at all.

"Off topic" is a funny way to spell "completely relevant to the current topic."

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10 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Way to get off topic buddy. What's wrong, eso made your fav frame more cancerous to play with others. The fact that people are xp camping and not killing at all. 

i remember when both mag and excal took a nerf. had something to do with mag being able to delete corpus with 1 press and viver for excal. abuse literally destroyed interception.

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2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i remember when both mag and excal took a nerf. had something to do with mag being able to delete corpus with 1 press and viver for excal. abuse literally destroyed interception.

A moment of silence, if you would, for Draco. 😛

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1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

Mirage spamulor died because it got abused

For the time, currently literally every frame does simulor mirage with catchmoon or tombfinger.

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

spin2win atterax got a soft nerf because it got abused (not good enough if you ask me)

Melee as a whole got a nerf, atterax itself no more or less effected than other good melee (also not enough because if anything it needs a "buff"/fix along with the other whips as the animation synch to raytrace/hitscan check means both whips and blade whips never extend to full range on front attacks except for the base attack chain which starts on the side, technically a bug but still unpatched despite being reported and known since the hitscan check implementation, also its dps when accounting for ramp isnt actually higher than older solid melee with stances is, gram prime being a massive dps upgrade without needing to account for slash procs and zaws having functionally same range with access to stance mods/not stuck in slide attacks).

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:


1shot eidolon Chroma got nerfed because it got abused.

It wasnt nerfed because he 1 shot eidolons (which he still does), it got nerfed because people were talking about the broken math for so long and joking about how DE did nothing for months after saying they will fix it that DE fixed it. Tho really the power creep more than made up for the 680~730% damage multi lost and the EHP loss is minimal on ice chroma prime vs normal fire chroma that was before, especially once one accounts for better arcane guadians and adaptation being options.

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

Hell, the poster child of cheese Ember got nerfed, because players couldn't keep their finger off her 4 and cruising through missions while she passively killed everything in her path.DE doesn't have to listen to anything either of us has to say about balance, they have things in the game's back-end that collects usage data, and they most likely rely on that to determine balance passes.

Ember was literally only nerfed because people whined that ember was somehow ruining games. She couldnt and still cant scale, just her playstyle got nerfed (has to do the cancer valkyr also has to do of toggling every other room) and cc survival at higher levels.

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:



Here's some of that data for you:

4 of the top 6 frames for high mastery players are literally press-4-to-win frames, 1 spams iron skin, and the other spams invisibility and disarms. I wonder why that is. Can't be because they all have a single button they can press that trivializes every mission they play in, can it?

Are you implying Kitguns, Gram P, Zaws and technically Vectis/Rubico/Tigris/etc dont already?

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2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

A moment of silence, if you would, for Draco. 😛

Ironically Hydron is an even better XP farm then Draco. They tried to get players off of one node and suceeded but they found something even better XD. TLDR their will always be a loot cave and I love that fact being a 5 year Warframe get and all.

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38 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

For the time, currently literally every frame does simulor mirage with catchmoon or tombfinger.

No, no they don't. No amount of modifying multishot on your weapon can compare to anything Mirage can dish out. Mirage can always spam 3-5 projectiles at once using her mirrors (5 before nerf), which makes multishot modding even more crazy. All of this allowed Mirage to stack Synoid Simulor projectiles in order to nuke explosions, giving them a literal trail of bread crumbs for players to follow in the form of singularities everywhere. It was also an era of noise pollution, because that weapon sounds awful when fired.

38 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Melee as a whole got a nerf, atterax itself no more or less effected than other good melee (also not enough because if anything it needs a "buff"/fix along with the other whips as the animation synch to raytrace/hitscan check means both whips and blade whips never extend to full range on front attacks except for the base attack chain which starts on the side, technically a bug but still unpatched despite being reported and known since the hitscan check implementation, also its dps when accounting for ramp isnt actually higher than older solid melee with stances is, gram prime being a massive dps upgrade without needing to account for slash procs and zaws having functionally same range with access to stance mods/not stuck in slide attacks).

I should clarify that Atterax, in itself, isn't the culprit. It's just a whip that happens to have a very high critical chance and multiplier. The problem really lies in how those stats modify to broken levels when used alongside maiming strike and blood rush. You only need to look at the wiki page for blood rush to get an idea on how crazy strong that can get as it accumulates combo multipliers. Whips also generally do slide attacks a lot quicker than the other weapons you mentioned here, allowing more spam of the slide attack than you could pull off with Gram Prime or a zaw polearm.

If we're talking non-slide attacks, then there's no doubt Gram Prime would absolutely destroy Atterax. Cleaving whirlwind's spin combo has no competition for damage output compared to the terrible combos whips have.

38 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

It wasnt nerfed because he 1 shot eidolons (which he still does), it got nerfed because people were talking about the broken math for so long and joking about how DE did nothing for months after saying they will fix it that DE fixed it. Tho really the power creep more than made up for the 680~730% damage multi lost and the EHP loss is minimal on ice chroma prime vs normal fire chroma that was before, especially once one accounts for better arcane guadians and adaptation being options.

And yet DE only did something about it when Eidolons came out, the first "grand boss" that later rewarded players with arcanes, which could easily be taken out with 1 shot by 1 frame without support from anyone else or perfect minmax modifications and a gg sniper riven. Yes you still can 1shot eidolon limbs, but the effort you need to put into achieving it has risen dramatically since the golden (dragon) boy got knocked down a peg.

38 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Ember was literally only nerfed because people whined that ember was somehow ruining games. She couldnt and still cant scale, just her playstyle got nerfed (has to do the cancer valkyr also has to do of toggling every other room) and cc survival at higher levels.

No. Ember got nerfed, because in a game where DE is doing literally everything in their power to limit players to the star chart, Ember was the biggest offender when it came to pressing 4 and cruising right to extraction. She was leagues worse than current Saryn, Mesa, and Equinox, because her 4 only needed to be pressed once in order to trivialize the missions she was in.

38 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Are you implying Kitguns, Gram P, Zaws and technically Vectis/Rubico/Tigris/etc dont already?

Let me know when any of those guns can destroy entire rooms with one shot the same way a Saryn or Mesa can when they press 4. The only kitgun that is remotely troublesome is the Catchmoon with Tombfinger being a distant second. Gram Prime deals an absurd amount of damage especially when paired with cleaving whirlwind, but it's slow as hell and is only really effective against enemies who can actually take a few (thousand) hits, but even its still nothing when compared to a spamming slide attacks with a whip using maiming strike and blood rush. Vectis/Rubico/Tigris are only good for 1shotting at least 1 enemy (plus some if you build punch-through or you use frames that can bunch enemies up into a tight cluster).

1shotting 1 or more tough enemies doesn't compare to wiping everything 50m away from you with 1 cast.

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