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Psykhe27

Riven trading significantly low since death of Semlar

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10 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

The game desperately needs a proper trading system. Even something that simply duplicates the functionality of warframe.market and riven.market within the game would be tremendously helpful because, as you pointed out, not everyone is even aware that those sites exist.

It's mind-boggling to me that pretty much everything else in the game has been reworked at lease once; we're up to melee 2.9, parkour 2.0, modding 2.0, damage 2.0, star chart 3.0, UI 3.0 (partly), and so on. But trading? That's still just the same old crappy trade chat. I don't understand why it's being neglected like that, but it's high time it too got a comprehensive overhaul.

I've requested before that riven/warframe.market be integrated into the 'normal' market system, just give them their own tabs and have it open in-game, like it does with steam overlay when you click on the news.

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2 hours ago, BeldarTheBrave said:

While there is a small and vocal group that are against any sort of auction house or player marketplace, this game desperately needs it. Organizing what's on offer from thousands of players would make the system more friendly, more accessible, and would trend towards bringing prices in line with actual item rarity.

The current system is would be like having to deal with a used car salesman for every single item you buy at the grocery. It's largely a waste of time and a massive pain in the anus.

"Smal' vocal group" lol, it's quite larger than you give it credit for.

I'll just leave this here, many comments and links regarding why DE won't add it - along with a very recent direct reply to the matter from DE themselves.

 

https://twitter.com/rebbford/status/1103418855207112704
^ DE Reb saying DE's official stance on the matter. March 6th 2019

https://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/discussions/0/144513248272459444/#c144513248272508336

https://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/discussions/0/144513248272459444/#c144513248272555255

Who could have imagined that I would be required to actually DEAL WITH PEOPLE interactively to do so. It's shocking.
I want to be able to log into game, post my crap to an Auction House, log out, and come back the next day to my Platinum and instant gratification.

Yeah, that was sarcasm.
Don't want to actually deal with and interact with people? You ain't selling your stuff.
Learn patience, interpersonal skills and how to chat filter.

Unpopular opinion, but I feel an auction house will actually lead to larger negative results for the whole plat trading system. Prices will plummet because the lowest pricing sellers essentially set the bar for what price is acceptable and what isn't. Nobody will spend more plat on something than the lowest amount required to buy it, that's how the trade economy works. The current system allows prices to fluctuate because it's a very quick random system without sellers or buyers online at all times, so not everyone agrees on what's the average price, some people sell their stuff for lower prices than others, some higher, and both these kinds of people still succesfully sell their stuff most of the time. An auction house will kill the higher prices and middle field and essentially reduce every item's price to a new minimum, not to mention reduce chances of selling significantly if you're not willing to lowball most of your wares. This means people will spend less money on platinum for trading, because they will need less as prices are lower. It also means people who stock up plat from trading to buy cosmetics will have a much harder time and take longer for more expensive items like Hunhow's Gift, as all the plat will go to the lowest sellers. The idea of an auction house may sound attractive at first, but it can result in pretty big changes in the game's economy.


Plat tax, got a flash back to air mech arena's terrible aution house where there was a tax that took 60% of the premium currency from all trades and held it hostage for 35 bucks, which cause everyone to up prices stupid high just so they could make anything.  Don't want that garabage polluting warframe 

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Actually i see the opposite happening. I came from a lot of MMO's that utilized an auction house system, hell my main MMO in the past was EVE Online. Adding places for you to park your goods does not suddenly mean 'free plat in the pocket' if anything it will just make the demand for day-traders and bot-traders that much higher due to the enhanced levels of competition. 

That, and it opens up room for sudden 'market shifts' done by market tycoons who suddenly crash or inflate the system at any given notice. In some cases people would find a low-selling object, buy it out completely, then set it back on the market for a higher price to "reset" the value or scalp. As someone who used to do this on his early days of WoW I can tell you that will most undoubtedly happen here.

At the same time, such volatile explosions in the market are usually hard to counter, the 'undercutting game' will always be there. A smart market entrepreneur will find people who put their stuff up for too low and simply buy their materials to sell themselves for a usury cost. Eventually, these curves "bell" out, which is one of the things my tinfoil tells me is the reason why DE won't do it. Their parent company makes too much from whales who succumb to their frivolous desires with a volatile, uphill market for them to ruin it all with eventual market stability.

The other part is that the fact that there is a direct currency exchange between real and fake money (plat) means it might have some issues with international law. 

I'd really like to see an Auction House or Market House, it always eventually adds stability moreso than just peer-to-peer trading. Just look at Warframe.Market and how much the Riven Mafia tries to dissuade people from Riven.Market as a reference for value of Rivens. If DE truly cared that people were getting scammed over by these folk they would have acted by now.

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59 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

"Smal' vocal group" lol, it's quite larger than you give it credit for.

I'll just leave this here, many comments and links regarding why DE won't add it - along with a very recent direct reply to the matter from DE themselves.

 

https://twitter.com/rebbford/status/1103418855207112704
^ DE Reb saying DE's official stance on the matter. March 6th 2019

https://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/discussions/0/144513248272459444/#c144513248272508336

https://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/discussions/0/144513248272459444/#c144513248272555255

Who could have imagined that I would be required to actually DEAL WITH PEOPLE interactively to do so. It's shocking.
I want to be able to log into game, post my crap to an Auction House, log out, and come back the next day to my Platinum and instant gratification.

Yeah, that was sarcasm.
Don't want to actually deal with and interact with people? You ain't selling your stuff.
Learn patience, interpersonal skills and how to chat filter.

Unpopular opinion, but I feel an auction house will actually lead to larger negative results for the whole plat trading system. Prices will plummet because the lowest pricing sellers essentially set the bar for what price is acceptable and what isn't. Nobody will spend more plat on something than the lowest amount required to buy it, that's how the trade economy works. The current system allows prices to fluctuate because it's a very quick random system without sellers or buyers online at all times, so not everyone agrees on what's the average price, some people sell their stuff for lower prices than others, some higher, and both these kinds of people still succesfully sell their stuff most of the time. An auction house will kill the higher prices and middle field and essentially reduce every item's price to a new minimum, not to mention reduce chances of selling significantly if you're not willing to lowball most of your wares. This means people will spend less money on platinum for trading, because they will need less as prices are lower. It also means people who stock up plat from trading to buy cosmetics will have a much harder time and take longer for more expensive items like Hunhow's Gift, as all the plat will go to the lowest sellers. The idea of an auction house may sound attractive at first, but it can result in pretty big changes in the game's economy.


Plat tax, got a flash back to air mech arena's terrible aution house where there was a tax that took 60% of the premium currency from all trades and held it hostage for 35 bucks, which cause everyone to up prices stupid high just so they could make anything.  Don't want that garabage polluting warframe 

I understand that DE doesn't want to do it as the current (non-existent) system favors them. It doesn't make it a bad idea. I understand it would drop prices substantially. This favors the body of players who actually play the game. It doesn't favor the people who are hording items and trying to swindle new players in trade chat for maximum profit. An auction house would not favor DE and perhaps it wouldn't favor you, I don't know. But it would favor most people as it would bring prices down to an actual reasonable level. We are talking about virtual collectables here, the only actually value any of it has is the real money transaction that happens at the point of platinum purchase.

Whenever an auction house is brought up in conversation the primary counter argument is often that people who support it don't know what it will do to the game's pretend economy. I just would like to suggest that, yes, I have a good idea what it would do and I'm still in favor of it.

Furthermore, there is no reason to insinuate insults about peoples' interpersonal skills. I deal with hundreds of human beings per day in my life and my interpersonal communication skills have never limited me in matters of trade or business. My problem isn't dealing with people, it's in dealing with a highly obfuscated market with horrible (read zero) listing without third party tools. It is quite stacked against newer people and very much favors the little pretend Corpus that are sitting on 40k platinum.

 

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27 minutes ago, BeldarTheBrave said:

I understand that DE doesn't want to do it as the current (non-existent) system favors them. It doesn't make it a bad idea. I understand it would drop prices substantially. This favors the body of players who actually play the game. It doesn't favor the people who are hording items and trying to swindle new players in trade chat for maximum profit. An auction house would not favor DE and perhaps it wouldn't favor you, I don't know. But it would favor most people as it would bring prices down to an actual reasonable level. We are talking about virtual collectables here, the only actually value any of it has is the real money transaction that happens at the point of platinum purchase.

Whenever an auction house is brought up in conversation the primary counter argument is often that people who support it don't know what it will do to the game's pretend economy. I just would like to suggest that, yes, I have a good idea what it would do and I'm still in favor of it.

Furthermore, there is no reason to insinuate insults about peoples' interpersonal skills. I deal with hundreds of human beings per day in my life and my interpersonal communication skills have never limited me in matters of trade or business. My problem isn't dealing with people, it's in dealing with a highly obfuscated market with horrible (read zero) listing without third party tools. It is quite stacked against newer people and very much favors the little pretend Corpus that are sitting on 40k platinum.

 

Like I said, those were copy pasted replies on the matter, not my direct words on the subject. So I didn't do any insulting.  I think the first step is integrating riven.market/warframe.market into the game. There should be two icons in the in-game market that will open in-game web-browsers to show you how they work etc.  Then, after a couple of months (I'd say 6ish) if there are still mass complaints on trading, they can go from there.

I do agree that trading and how it works is very obfuscated. Many whom end up joining think that it's either standing in relays for hours or watching the trade chat... for hours.  I think DE should feel obligated to make it more clear as to the ways that players trade.

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5 hours ago, BeldarTheBrave said:

While there is a small and vocal group that are against any sort of auction house or player marketplace, this game desperately needs it. Organizing what's on offer from thousands of players would make the system more friendly, more accessible, and would trend towards bringing prices in line with actual item rarity.

The current system is would be like having to deal with a used car salesman for every single item you buy at the grocery. It's largely a waste of time and a massive pain in the anus.

No, an auction house would destroy Warframe's economy. Everything would sell for dirt cheap and no one would make any plat ever because everyone would be undercutting each other.

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It's low or harder to sell because you most likely over priced your Rivens, like most sellers.


 

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I'm sorta out of the loop, I know about the incident regarding Semlar's tracker tools but I thought it got resolved pretty quickly?

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5 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

Like I said, those were copy pasted replies on the matter, not my direct words on the subject. So I didn't do any insulting.  I think the first step is integrating riven.market/warframe.market into the game. There should be two icons in the in-game market that will open in-game web-browsers to show you how they work etc.  Then, after a couple of months (I'd say 6ish) if there are still mass complaints on trading, they can go from there.

I do agree that trading and how it works is very obfuscated. Many whom end up joining think that it's either standing in relays for hours or watching the trade chat... for hours.  I think DE should feel obligated to make it more clear as to the ways that players trade.

I was replying to the text provided, sorry if I misattributed a viewpoint to you that was not your own. I assumed it was as you quoted or posted the text. No personal offense was intended.

Your suggestion of integration of a web based trading site could potentially work to increase visibility. I believe it would be better to integrate a similar system directly into the game itself, though.

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8 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Wait, when and why did Semlar "die"?

I'm on his site right now and it's still working?

Its the riven price section that got turn off, since they got Semlars "bot" accounts closed. He used them to acquire realtime listings so the prices could be displayed on his site.

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DE are under no obligation to provide trading services, as this isn't a core part of the game.

Its a player-driven thing, caused by people wanting to buy their way to OP-ness, instead of waiting for rivens to drop. Therefore it should be up to players to create a solution.

 

Or better yet, stop treating rivens as some kind of end-game, must-have commodity.

If trading has become your primary focus in Warframe, you really should be playing something else IMO.

 

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6 hours ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

No, an auction house would destroy Warframe's economy. Everything would sell for dirt cheap and no one would make any plat ever because everyone would be undercutting each other.

No, it would not destroy the economy. It would change it, however. Prices would drop drastically on more commonly owned trade goods but they would drop much less on truly rare items. Undercutting and competition is good for the consumer. So, people selling more common items at inflated prices to people who don't know any better would make reduced profit. Those selling truly rare items would still make significant profit, but would be subject to competition.

I find it so strange that people fight against the idea when it favors the vast majority of players. The people who it would "harm" are the people who already have more platinum than they need or people reselling platinum for real currency.

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51 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

DE are under no obligation to provide trading services, as this isn't a core part of the game.

 

DE is under no obligation to provide anything really, so that statement doesn't make much sense. They could decide to delete every frame in the game except for Vauban if they wanted. So, you are correct they don't have to provide a trading system. It's also probable that they never will. That doesn't mean that an auction system wouldn't benefit the general player base.

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If only people did their research

https://www.patreon.com/posts/its-alive-25780966

Semlar isn't "dead". In fact this post talks about a new feature on the site coming soon and guess what, it's currently in the beta phase on the site.  It's called Riven Hunter. Just used it to find recent rivens in trade chat. It isn't perfect but it's something. As for the data DE provided, they said they're working on a Market API for warframe so devs like semlar have an official resource to go work with. Something like that takes time not just on the development side, but on the logistics side. There's still more to do on that, obviously. 

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Just make rivens untradeable.  Or remove them from the game entirely.

My preference (in order)

  • Remove rivens
  • Make them untradeable
  • Make them untradeable if unveiled
  • make them untradeable if rolled
  • make a separate trade chat window and keep it out of the regular chat.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sajochi said:

As for the data DE provided, they said they're working on a Market API for warframe so devs like semlar have an official resource to go work with. Something like that takes time not just on the development side, but on the logistics side. There's still more to do on that, obviously. 

Not sure how folks keep missing this...

 

OFFICIAL RIVEN TRADE DATA IS AND HAS BEEN AVAILABLE! 30+ days now

Riven trades(total trades) have actually gone up since the release of this system, not down.

Nothing here has not been said or suggested before, but I do not believe anyone has pointed out the FACTS above.

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Honestly i've given a cursory loock at the data provided by DE and it's of no help to the common player, considering that there's no data on the stats of the rivens traded

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30 minutes ago, (XB1)Blueberry2006 said:

Not sure how folks keep missing this...

 

OFFICIAL RIVEN TRADE DATA IS AND HAS BEEN AVAILABLE! 30+ days now

Riven trades(total trades) have actually gone up since the release of this system, not down.

Nothing here has not been said or suggested before, but I do not believe anyone has pointed out the FACTS above.

You can't argue with "facts" because you can't shift goal posts or spin the narrative as easily.   When will the tenno learn.  

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Just make rivens untradeable.  Or remove them from the game entirely.

My preference (in order)

  • Remove rivens
  • Make them untradeable
  • Make them untradeable if unveiled
  • make them untradeable if rolled
  • make a separate trade chat window and keep it out of the regular chat.

 

 

I’m good with this. My preference is “only veiled Rivens are tradeable.”

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13 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

You can't argue with "facts" because you can't shift goal posts or spin the narrative as easily.   When will the tenno learn.  

What am I trying to spin? I was quite clear.

There is factual, official data, that supports trades have increased - not decreased.

So please, explain to me what I need to learn?

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Blueberry2006 said:

What am I trying to spin? I was quite clear.

There is factual, official data, that supports trades have increased - not decreased.

So please, explain to me what I need to learn?

Sarcasm

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3 hours ago, BeldarTheBrave said:

No, it would not destroy the economy. It would change it, however. Prices would drop drastically on more commonly owned trade goods but they would drop much less on truly rare items. Undercutting and competition is good for the consumer. So, people selling more common items at inflated prices to people who don't know any better would make reduced profit. Those selling truly rare items would still make significant profit, but would be subject to competition.

I find it so strange that people fight against the idea when it favors the vast majority of players. The people who it would "harm" are the people who already have more platinum than they need or people reselling platinum for real currency.

Dude. You just explained why it would destroy the economy for almost everything except rivens. That makes the situation even worse. 

Just stop. 

11 hours ago, AshenHaze said:

Actually i see the opposite happening. I came from a lot of MMO's that utilized an auction house system, hell my main MMO in the past was EVE Online. Adding places for you to park your goods does not suddenly mean 'free plat in the pocket' if anything it will just make the demand for day-traders and bot-traders that much higher due to the enhanced levels of competition.

Uh, hi. I don't know if you've noticed this, but warframe and eve have vastly different economic environments. 

One of the extremely important differences is "repair". Our gear doesn't degrade and with a few specific exceptions, never needs to be replaced. So our supply:demand cannot be compared to Eve's. There's potentially infinite supply, but limited demand. 

Auction houses work based on the relationship between supply and demand. 

Yes there will be more competition, but in our case, a race to have the lowest prices will not stimulate our economy after the first mad dash. 

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7 hours ago, BeldarTheBrave said:

No, it would not destroy the economy. It would change it, however. Prices would drop drastically on more commonly owned trade goods but they would drop much less on truly rare items. Undercutting and competition is good for the consumer. So, people selling more common items at inflated prices to people who don't know any better would make reduced profit. Those selling truly rare items would still make significant profit, but would be subject to competition.

I find it so strange that people fight against the idea when it favors the vast majority of players. The people who it would "harm" are the people who already have more platinum than they need or people reselling platinum for real currency.

I think it would still lower higher valued items more than some give it credit. Because players will chase those items that are worth more plat, and in turn, make them worth far less because they'll flood the market. 

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I think making only veiled Rivens tradable would turn it into a sort of gacha system more so than now. If someone really wants that Rubico riven it's better to let him buy it outright than gamble for it. Making only unrolled rivens tradeable also is a bit weird. Traders would start capitalizing on god rivens with 0 rolls which is even rarer. But it wouldn't be the worst I suppose. 

As for Auction House ruining your trading and your making your relic runs worthless... you can simply make AH for rivens only. That fixes a lot of issues IMO and doesn't pose much threat to non-riven market. Your relic runs will still be the same. There just won't be much confusion about riven prices.

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