Your "inactivity" detection algorithm is broken. Please fix it.

[Magosian]

Title says it all, but if you want specifics, I was helping clanmates do the 40 wave defense for nightwave.  About halfway through I noticed I was flagged for inactivity despite doing "a lot" of the work.  I suspect the algorithm weights position and lack of movement as a significant trigger.  This is an insufficient check as it targets the wrong people (not to mention will erroneously victimize any frame built for map-nuking).

I don't want my relics back, I don't really care if this is a "test in prod" situation, I just want you to know your implemented system punishes the wrong people, and if it continues, players will be justifiably upset.  Linked images are below.

-Magosian

[VoidWraith]

if you stay in one place, and just spam nuke-like abilities, the game or algorithm will think you are just botting. So you have to move a little bit every one minute or so. While this is flawed logic, this is what they have against it. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by VoidWraith

[Magosian]

1 minute ago, VoidWraith said:

if you stay in one place, and just spam nuke-like abilities, the game or algorithm will think you are just botting. So you have to move a little bit every one minute or so. While this is flawed logic, this is what they have against it. 

It would be REAL easy to check if someone is popping ED every 30ish seconds to maintain nukes.  Fact remains: the detection doesn't work as intended.

[VoidWraith]

3 minutes ago, Magosian said:

It would be REAL easy to check if someone is popping ED every 30ish seconds to maintain nukes.  Fact remains: the detection doesn't work as intended.

 

6 minutes ago, VoidWraith said:

While this is flawed logic, this is what they have against it. 

 

[LordChronos]

I used to get flagged for playing too long as operator. Is that fixed?

[Magosian]

3 minutes ago, LordChronos said:

I used to get flagged for playing too long as operator. Is that fixed?

Have yet to see that, but at this point, it wouldn't shock me if it's still an issue.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Magosian
i spell gud

[ZeroX4]

4 minutes ago, LordChronos said:

I used to get flagged for playing too long as operator. Is that fixed?

2 days i go i get same thing so most likely not

[stormy505]

25 minutes ago, Magosian said:

It would be REAL easy to check if someone is popping ED every 30ish seconds to maintain nukes.  Fact remains: the detection doesn't work as intended.

the reason it's designed this way is that some people design macros that trigger an ability every 30 seconds to nuke a map. so they kinda have to base the inactivity detector on movement since that's harder to build a macro for.

[Aurea_Hiigara]

15 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

the reason it's designed this way is that some people design macros that trigger an ability every 30 seconds to nuke a map. so they kinda have to base the inactivity detector on movement since that's harder to build a macro for.

Fire macro one, press w, then 4, then wait 30 seconds. Fire macro two, press s, then 4, then wait 30 seconds.

I don't even do macros and that was my primary solution when thinking about it for all of two seconds.

[SordidDreams]

Like most things in WF, AFK detection is half-baked and not thought through very thoroughly.

53 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

the reason it's designed this way is that some people design macros that trigger an ability every 30 seconds to nuke a map. so they kinda have to base the inactivity detector on movement since that's harder to build a macro for.

Um, what? No it isn't. Making a macro to 'press' a movement key once in a while is just as easy as making a macro to 'press' an ability key once in a while.

Edited April 28, 2019 by SordidDreams

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Magosian said:

It would be REAL easy to check if someone is popping ED every 30ish seconds to maintain nukes.  Fact remains: the detection doesn't work as intended.

No, it does work as intended. The devs have the system test for both "pressing no buttons" and "only pressing the number keys", and have the system flag you as being equally AFK. That was on purpose, that was by design.

Take a walk every wave, give your Warframe the cardio

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, Magosian said:

Fact remains: the detection doesn't work as intended.

Actually its working exactly as intended.
DE Steve even said that its there to prevent "drinking bird playing" where you just sit there and hit a button over and over and over and over without any movement or anything else.

The behavior you're describing is exactly what the afk detection was made to prevent.

Its to prevent two things:
-Completely AFK
-Players that could be replaced by a script and no one would be able to tell the difference

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, LordChronos said:

I used to get flagged for playing too long as operator. Is that fixed?

I think so..... but after being hit with that a couple times I've also taken to occasionally moving my Warframe so parking patrol the inactivity timer doesn't ticket flag me. So there is a chance that it's still a thing and I've just been more careful, plus I'm done leveling the operator Amps I actually "care" about. Soooo also haven't really leveled Operator anything in a while either. 

[zoffmode]

The origin of current AFK detection system comes from ODD. Orokin Derelict Defense used to be best farming method for everything and people had farming scripts for it because infested are trash.

You just stood on a pillar and spammed abilities and AoE weapons. I definitely did NOT have a script made for Ogris afk farming that got to at least wave 25 wave by itself before DE announced scripts are bannable. That's how easy it was. Oh also Vauban was useful back then.

Anyway, they made standing in one place AFK trigger you because that's what farms were about. Or maybe my memory is all wrong and it was because of Mesa afk farming with Mag pulling energy orbs to her. They nerfed all that too. Either way, forcing players to move was effective because scripts would get stuck on things. At very least, it would take more effort and be more obvious (human can press same button similar to a bot, but he won't walk the same exact way as a script, so easier bans). And if it's a human pressing a button, well that's also making him play a bit more than just pressing a button.

[Magosian]

I don't know why I have to repeat myself but I was moving the whole time.  I can't just nuke all day without ED.

[zoffmode]

1 minute ago, Magosian said:

I don't know why I have to repeat myself but I was moving the whole time.  I can't just nuke all day without ED.

 

3 hours ago, Magosian said:

About halfway through I noticed I was flagged for inactivity despite doing "a lot" of the work.  I suspect the algorithm weights position and lack of movement as a significant trigger.  This is an insufficient check as it targets the wrong people (not to mention will erroneously victimize any frame built for map-nuking).

Which is it?

 

And here's

Quote

• The penalty is triggered by the player not moving more than ~5 meters for 2 minutes, regardless if the player is killing enemies or not.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Inactivity_Penalty

[o0Despair0o]

This is why I always jump around a bit after setting off Saryn's nuke.

[Magosian]

There's no contradiction here.

lack of movement != no movement.

ED moves you well more than 5 meters if you want it to, and I'm certain I did that plenty of times, certainly nothing beyond a 2 minute window.  It must come to its conclusion some other way.  Depsite this, it obviously isn't working as it should.

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

DE Steve even said that its there to prevent "drinking bird playing" where you just sit there and hit a button over and over and over and over without any movement or anything else. 

The behavior you're describing is exactly what the afk detection was made to prevent. 

That is a valid concern, however preventing such behavior with an AFK timer seems like a very heavy-handed approach to me. A more elegant solution would be to design the game in such a way that it didn't encourage such playstyles.

[Magosian]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what I thought was a very simple report.

I was flagged for being AFK when I was not AFK.  That's the problem.  Anything beyond this and you've changed the topic.  The mechanisms DE has employed to determine inactivity are clearly subject to error AND apparently don't take ED movement into account, because as I've said many times, no one can just "AFK nuke" without some kind of energy replenishment.  ED happens to simultaneously move you AND replenish energy.

I don't need to go for a walk.  I don't need need to get exercise.  I just want the game to not punish people for literally playing it.  THIS IS A STATIC DEFENSE MISSION! if I want to sit beside the defense node for several minutes without moving a foot, I shouldn't have to worry about missing out on rewards because of it.  Please don't tell me about alternatives because all you're really doing is ignoring the point of the post.  The mechanism is broken, end of story.  DE, please look into this.

[Yxivi]

How hard is it really to move your frame a little bit that there are people complaining about this? O,o

Do we just complain about any minor inconvenience now?

I honestly don't even know how people are getting flagged by this coz I have never been flagged even though I have done several almost afk-ish runs myself. You know, just press a button again and again in one spot? I even remember having a meal while watching my friends farm but I never got flagged so idk what you people are doing wrong. It's really not that hard to move your frame. C'mon, just press forward and you'll never worry about it.

Srsly, I find it almost funny that there are people getting flagged by this system and even funnier coz they're complaining lol.

It's clear the devs want you to put a little more input when playing, it's not flawed.

[trst]

1 hour ago, Magosian said:

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what I thought was a very simple report.

I was flagged for being AFK when I was not AFK.  That's the problem.  Anything beyond this and you've changed the topic.  The mechanisms DE has employed to determine inactivity are clearly subject to error AND apparently don't take ED movement into account, because as I've said many times, no one can just "AFK nuke" without some kind of energy replenishment.  ED happens to simultaneously move you AND replenish energy.

I don't need to go for a walk.  I don't need need to get exercise.  I just want the game to not punish people for literally playing it.  THIS IS A STATIC DEFENSE MISSION! if I want to sit beside the defense node for several minutes without moving a foot, I shouldn't have to worry about missing out on rewards because of it.  Please don't tell me about alternatives because all you're really doing is ignoring the point of the post.  The mechanism is broken, end of story.  DE, please look into this.

As many here have already pointed out it's not solely to detect people being afk but to also detect people playing tower defense and using macros/scripts.

You can bring up energizing dash all you want but having the dash count as movement against the penalty would be a massive fault in the system. Suddenly anyone automating gameplay can set it to dash and never need to put some random movement into their macro. Also you can very much fully afk and ability spam solely from the fact that energy restores and Trinity exist;,energizing dash is entirely optional.

Also the during the time people were doing this enough to justify the system was from people using Greedy Pull Mag to force energy orbs onto a Mesa (pre Peacemaker rework) giving her infinite energy without ever needing to drop peacemaker. One player pressing a single key occasionally and another one replaced with a paperweight, this is the type of gameplay the devs do not want.

[JackHargreav]

1 hour ago, Magosian said:

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what I thought was a very simple report.

I was flagged for being AFK when I was not AFK.  That's the problem.  Anything beyond this and you've changed the topic.  The mechanisms DE has employed to determine inactivity are clearly subject to error AND apparently don't take ED movement into account, because as I've said many times, no one can just "AFK nuke" without some kind of energy replenishment.  ED happens to simultaneously move you AND replenish energy.

I don't need to go for a walk.  I don't need need to get exercise.  I just want the game to not punish people for literally playing it.  THIS IS A STATIC DEFENSE MISSION! if I want to sit beside the defense node for several minutes without moving a foot, I shouldn't have to worry about missing out on rewards because of it.  Please don't tell me about alternatives because all you're really doing is ignoring the point of the post.  The mechanism is broken, end of story.  DE, please look into this.

Oh. I guess it wouldn't bother you if the devs would glue you into one place then.

I mean It's a static defense mission after all.

Edited April 28, 2019 by JackHargreav

[VoidWraith]

I think energizing dash may have not been counted as "movement" as your warframe has technicially not moved itself. but instead "teleported" 

All the other times, you may have moved a little after energizing dash, but maybe for that short period, you didn't.

Edited April 28, 2019 by VoidWraith

[MacKerris]

rofl, the OP is correct . The system is not working as intended. That intent being to catch or punish those who are farming afk, running scripts etc. 

Funny thing though. There are numerous people using scripts/macros, etc that get around this system anyway.