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HatedByLifeItself

Nerf Itzal, i pick Zephyr

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To be honest I find the whole issue funny . Know why ? "Nurf Itzal " equals nurf POE and OV  . No blink means double time(since travel) for same rewards (that are meh as it is ) . DE about to shoot themselve in the foot with this one methinks .

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Did everyone forget about using your operator with the naramon passives? That's what I usually use if not zephyr. You still cover a fair amount of distance 

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11 hours ago, LarryYourWaiter said:

How are you making valkyr as mobile as the others in the open plains or Vallis?  I assume you’re meaning her grappling hook?  Or am I missing something?

yes the grappling hook, there is a youtube video of some one making her act like spiderman in vallis. I got to go find the link to it now. otherwise I think I over overestimated her maneuverability.

but that still leaves five other warframes that can go faster when a standard archwing.

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Il y a 13 heures, --DSP--Jetstream a dit :

wow finally i get to see a "nerf zephyr" thread

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but my post was not about nerfing zephyr it is just to show how absurd the logic of nerfing the itzal is because as a player i will choose the best possible way to do something.

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21 hours ago, HatedByLifeItself said:

Hi, 

So i was using zephyr trying out her  3 in simulacrum vs 135s, and i used her 1 just to see how it was with a max duration build, absolutely insane, i did 1000m in 9s using her 1 , actually faster than archwing ( did not use itzal blink, just full speed) . So the question now is will Zephyr's 1 be nerfed ? because after Itzal blink gets removed i will only pick her (fastest way to deal with big distances), so DE please nerf Zephyr's 1 at it will remove choice from the game 🙂 ****sarcasm***. 

Depends on usage, if Zephyr becomes overwhelmingly more used than every other frame, sure. Because y'know, that's why the rebalance is happening. 

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Atmosphere Archwings are used primarily used for movement.  When it comes to travel, Itzal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other Archwings > K-Drives > On Foot, and usages clearly demonstrate this to hold true.

It should be more like Itzal > Other Archwings >> K-Drives >>>> On Foot.  Archwings can fly, so they're pretty much always going to be the top pick for just going in a straight line, and Itzal is still the fastest had them no abilities.  K-Drives would be slower but more interactive for when speed is less of a priority, and On Foot is, well, on foot.

The comparison to Zephyr is flawed, because if it were true then no missions that involved moving toward a goal would ever see anything other than Volt, Zephyr, or Nova.  In Atmosphere, Frames are not equitable to Archwings because both are used in tandem, and in practice one is used to go in straight lines and the other is used for everything else.

Also nerfing Zephyr's 1 would actually make it more manageable for indoor spaces, allowing her to be built for high Duration without having a 1 that causes her to careen into walls and stay there nearly as much, and wouldn't actually affect Outdoor movement all that much anyway.

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21 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Sure, but how is their performance once in the fight vs. what One might usually bring with Itzal carting them around?  There's some competition as to which Warframe to bring to a fight.  When it comes to getting around via archwing, there is no such contest.

 I mean. the main issue is that every other archwing brings combat abilities while itzal brings mobility and utility. if archwing combat was remotely relevant then we might have a reason to use other archwings.

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23 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

 I mean. the main issue is that every other archwing brings combat abilities while itzal brings mobility and utility. if archwing combat was remotely relevant then we might have a reason to use other archwings.

Omg thank you for this.

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I think the Axe won't be dropped on the Itzal, after some time they probably realise how short-sighted it would be. after all, back when we had Archwing charges people would just use Max Range Zephyr or Nova to get around. hell, even Excalibur can do it too: Slash Dash distance is affected by range , all you have to do is jump and spam 1 upwards.

what DE need to do is find a way of making K-Drives more useful and alleviate existing problems, like how they take FAR too long to level up.

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28 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I think the Axe won't be dropped on the Itzal, after some time they probably realise how short-sighted it would be. after all, back when we had Archwing charges people would just use Max Range Zephyr or Nova to get around. hell, even Excalibur can do it too: Slash Dash distance is affected by range , all you have to do is jump and spam 1 upwards.

what DE need to do is find a way of making K-Drives more useful and alleviate existing problems, like how they take FAR too long to level up.

The problem is one dev in particular thinks it's bad that Itzal is picked over other Archwings in PoE/Orb, this isn't just about K-Drives. People who think it's a problem ignore the fact Archwings as a whole for PoE/Orb serve zero purpose beyond moving from one point to another, this is also why nerfing Itzal won't make K-Drives better, as using Itzal without the teleport is still better than K-Drives, even moving on the ground is better than K-Drives, and this is before you even start using Warframes that are mobile.

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I don't see why'd they'd actually want to nerf Itzal, a better thing to do would just be to make other archwings actually useful. The reality is that other archwings have no actual reason to exist unless you're forced to use them because the scaling they have make them absolute garbage compared to frames, why use Elytron's 0 damage literal nuke when I can just nuke a map with Equinox, why settle for Amesha's poverty support when I can just spam Bless and EV with Trinity. I don't know what kind of delusions they have as to what's going to happen if they nerf Itzal's mobility but it isn't going to make other archwings any more useful.

DE tried not to replicate the mistakes they had originally made in the base game by keeping archwing isolated and away from the powercreep of the regular game but then they went and introduced it into the main game. The only real solution I see for them now is to rework archwing so that their mods have actual base game scaling or to buff their base stats by a lot so that what scaling they do have allows them to be usable in combat.

As it stands now their health, damage, and CC are all garbage when put against any frame so if you're going to limit their use to moving then don't be surprised when the one that goes fast is what everyone is using.

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Let us not forget that Scott had quite a few beers when he made that comment. 

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On ‎2019‎-‎04‎-‎29 at 9:12 PM, -Amaterasu- said:

I don't see why'd they'd actually want to nerf Itzal, a better thing to do would just be to make other archwings actually useful. The reality is that other archwings have no actual reason to exist unless you're forced to use them because the scaling they have make them absolute garbage compared to frames, why use Elytron's 0 damage literal nuke when I can just nuke a map with Equinox, why settle for Amesha's poverty support when I can just spam Bless and EV with Trinity. I don't know what kind of delusions they have as to what's going to happen if they nerf Itzal's mobility but it isn't going to make other archwings any more useful.

DE tried not to replicate the mistakes they had originally made in the base game by keeping archwing isolated and away from the powercreep of the regular game but then they went and introduced it into the main game. The only real solution I see for them now is to rework archwing so that their mods have actual base game scaling or to buff their base stats by a lot so that what scaling they do have allows them to be usable in combat.

As it stands now their health, damage, and CC are all garbage when put against any frame so if you're going to limit their use to moving then don't be surprised when the one that goes fast is what everyone is using.

Nail on the Head! Additionally, there is no reason to even bother to use Archwing Abilities because DE programmed enemies to immediately fire anti-Archwing weaponry.
Even if players want to use the damage & CC of other Archwings...it's moot because enemies defeat Archwings with no effort.

The Itzal is useful for movement & evasion (like a Rogue...the very concept it was designed around...) which for non-combat gameplay is god tier.
Itzal can avoid being blasted out of the sky, can be used to snipe enemies, can be used to fast travel.
While the other Archwings can be used to snipe & travel. They are significantly inferior in it.

Can't snipe when enemies clip your wings (literally) in the blink of an eye, & NEVER MISS.
Can't fast travel when enemies never miss clipping your wings.
Yes all Archwings have a "Anti-Wing Clip" ability but for many it's too late to use em by the time the warning pops up or...they just don't work (looking at you Odonata & Elytron).

Itzal as @stormy505 stated earlier is the only Archwing that offers improved Mobility in addition to also being the fastest Archwing.
None of the other Archwings offer utility in the form of Mobility.
To remove/nerf it's mobility serves no purpose. It will STILL be the Archwing players choose to use because it's the fastest Archwing in the game.
I'm befuddled on how DE can't see this.

K-Drives need more speed, they also need more utility.
Let players fish off them, let players shoot enemies while riding one, let players not fall off them when the wind blows.
Such things make a world of difference & make using them more worthwhile.

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You nerf zephyr, I pick max range excalibur. You nerf excalibur, I pick max range nova. You nerf Nova, I pick max range loki you get the point. 

If DE nerfs itzal players will always find a way to replace it and it will be the new “itzal”. The best solution for both players and developers is to buff the rest of the archwing or K-Drive to keep up with itzal’s insane mobility.

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They should just add movement abilities to the other archwings tbh. Most archwings have forgettable abilities as well, so I don't think it would cause too much unhappiness if they dumped an ability for one. 

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1 hour ago, DrivaMain said:

You nerf zephyr, I pick max range excalibur. You nerf excalibur, I pick max range nova. You nerf Nova, I pick max range loki you get the point. 

If DE nerfs itzal players will always find a way to replace it and it will be the new “itzal”. The best solution for both players and developers is to buff the rest of the archwing or K-Drive to keep up with itzal’s insane mobility.

Reminds me a bit of the Draco to hydron situation. Even if they nerf the most efficient method a slightly less efficient method will be found. 

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Itzal's blink is far from a problem. Why this is something that DE have chosen to "fix" instead of any of the more pressing issues is beyond me.

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