The Mastery Rank Problem of Incentivization

[pokrmon55623]

Hi, I'm not entirely sure how to start this, but I'll try I guess. I been playing since near the launch of the ps4, or around Update...8? I want to say? I was here before the whole Junctions became a thing if that helps, and I also played PC. I grew to 9 and 10 MR respectively across the platforms and I'm still playing to grind up. 

There's quite a big problem with Mastery Rank as it stands (What else is new?) and that's how it's incentives work. Right now it's: Buy a new weapon, stick it in your loadout, grind to 30, dump weapon, repeat. It never challenges you to actually learn how to use the weapon and incentivizes you to drop the weapon or else you aren't getting that sweet, sweet Mastery points. On top of this, it also incentivises spending a bunch of money/resources in order to get a bunch of weapons and warframes for it, not even mentioning the platinum problem.

That being said, it's not a bad system as it stands, at least near the beginning. But between how much it takes to even grind up One single rank later on, along with the dumping of weapons that might be used otherwise with a system that also rewards Formaing and using items that might not gain Mastery rank points (Cause seriously, as it stands right now, there's no other point than maybe getting the items from lens, which I thought was a wonderful addition to the game) a bit more. The Lens were a great step in the right direction, but it simply doesn't do enough for it. I dumped Excal Umbra and his set near immediately when I realized it was a maxed out set, saying to myself "Oh great, it's maxed so no MR Points, welp, that sucks." before moving on.

Maybe it's just me honestly, but I would love to hear your opinion on this. Tell your thoughts below in the comments

-Char

Edit: Okay, I messed up with the tags, sorry. Kinda new to this so I didn't know about it and apologize on that front. I was just pointing something I felt was something of a negative for the game and that if improved could allow even more fun for the game as a whole. I...honestly didn't expect the backlash tbh, but I'm not completely surprised in the end. Thank you for all the comments and suggestions and the like, even to the massive backlash to the post. I understand where you all are coming from and why you think that way. Honestly I understand the whole "Mastery Rank is just busy work" comment, etc. But I would want it to be something more than that. Mastery Rank right now is basically just that, busy work. It's not really fun to grind it out to at least 14 (Which by then, you don't get any extra stuff other than mod base increase from what I've heard) and it really doesn't matter in all sense. I was suggesting that with how the game incentivies with its core design that in order to boost MR, you either rapidly complete the world map (Which is a nice feature tbh) or you grind weapons/warframes in and out, so if you could make MR a more fun experience (Cause I'm not really expecting a full overhaul of the system, just enough to make it more fun and less tedium/busy work) that it would make Warframe a more fun game to play as a whole.

Edited May 5, 2019 by pokrmon55623
I wanted to respond to the massive backlash that came as a result to this post, I am sorry for using the wrong tag to begin with.

[Zeclem]

theres no "plat" problem. and mr system is fine as it is. the weapons arent some secret society with millions of different possibilities, there isnt really any room for "learning how to use them". 

[HellVOps]

megathread tag.....remove it.

Edit: Good, it was removed, as for your "suggestions", others have answered it already.

Edited April 30, 2019 by HellVOps

[RX-3DR]

You have to consider two things, Formas were not part of the game when Mastery Ranks were decided, which meant each piece of equipment was designed to have a very specific lifespan when looking purely at Mastery Rank progression. Mastery Rank was also just an isolated number as it was not tied to any other number, no one thought of 30 as the benchmark for an end until they tied it to minimum capacity.

As it currently stands, while the Mastery Rank system is outdated in that sense, it still keeps to a very thin line of pushing people to not get tunnel-visioned on a few specific weapons without being extremely intrusive on player choice. I think it exists fine as it is, although I question the purpose of pushing people to try out different weapons when it can be completely bypassed by standing near someone else for 10 minutes.

I think it'd be healthier to shift your perspective away from Mastery Rank being the key progression to just being an indicator of how deep you have gotten into the game. If Mastery XP is the only thing that matters into the game, you're essentially just racing against the developers with how fast you can grind up things and how fast can they pump out content. Allow me to pose a simple question, what will you do when you hit 30 and find out that there is a hard cap on Mastery Ranks? The problem of there being "no reason" to use a max rank equipment is now shared with everything where there is "no reason" to use any new piece of equipment as it does not contribute to any progression beyond the weapon itself.

Edited April 30, 2019 by RX-3DR

[Cuchullin]

I think with how the Mastery rank  works now it's based around locking gear to a certain point (MR 14? -15?) then after that it's basically just bragging rights. What might be interesting is if for each level you had to do a set of challenges (not the mastery tests which are just to rank up). For example once you start a certain MR level you pick a weapon challenge, stealth challenge, warframe challenge etc. If you pick a weapon challenge you get a randomly selected weapon (e.g. soma) first set of challenges could be to kill a certain amount of enemies each from different factions. second set could be using different mod set ups (radiation, corrosive etc). Same across mission types and frame usage.

I'm well aware that this could add a whole lot of likely unnecessary grind for players who have been here a while but it could be useful to newer players as a tutorial tool in how to mod and experiment with different weapons rather then just following the meta.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Cuchullin

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

You lost me at "platinum problem"

[Mez999]

MR is fine. I’ve never needed to grind it purposefully. Knowing that I need to increase MR, it causes me to proactively use weapons that I ordinarily would overlook. 

I’ll typically have one thing in my loadout that’s unranked in order to passively increase my MR as well as giving me some variation. Yeah I have levelled and dumped things immediately that were trash but at least I gave myself the chance to realise that. 

Only some weapons are a resource sink so I don’t see that as being an issue and I’ve never seen a plat problem when it comes to weapons. I have bought many weapon slots with plat but only retain my favourites and prime / special variants because I’m a bit of a hoarder. 

[YazMatazO]

Been 18 for ages now... don't miss the extra ranks, to be honest. 

[Zelmen]

56 minutes ago, pokrmon55623 said:

Right now it's: Buy a new weapon, stick it in your loadout, grind to 30, dump weapon, repeat.

You are skipping out on the game. At low MR its encourages you to level things so you get out of using MK1 starting weapons. You also need, I would say, MR 14 to remove all MR locks and have a decent amount of rep cap. Beyond that MR really is a great way to get you to try all the weapons and find ones that fit your play style. Also help keep you from finding the first one you like and never wanting to try others. If you just leveling and dumping them without doing a little testing, you are only hurting yourself. I will admit it is easy to throw a weapon on and run into Hydron and never actually use it before hitting 30. Don't. Everything you level you should try and understand how it feels. I like Titina but had trouble playing her until picking up items (mainly energy orbs) in her 4 got updated. 

 

58 minutes ago, pokrmon55623 said:

platinum problem

There really isn't a problem. This is a free to play game. They need to make plat feel its a time saver but not required to progress. Since it can be traded, learn to trade. I had an extra equinox set and sold it. Had enough plat or any of the random things I needed like more slots.

 

1 hour ago, pokrmon55623 said:

I dumped Excal Umbra and his set near immediately

Never get rid of quest items. Otherwise you will pay to get them back (literally).

 

Also I don't think you can just declare a megathread tag. That's now how this works Micheal. You can't just shout random things and expect it to happen.

[(PSN)I_I_Hope_I_I]

29 minutes ago, pokrmon55623 said:

Hi, I'm not entirely sure how to start this, but I'll try I guess. I been playing since near the launch of the ps4, or around Update...8? I want to say? I was here before the whole Junctions became a thing if that helps, and I also played PC. I grew to 9 and 10 MR respectivably across the platforms and I'm still playing to grind up. 

There's quite a big problem with Mastery Rank as it stands (What else is new?) and that's how it's incentives work. Right now it's: Buy a new weapon, stick it in your loadout, grind to 30, dump weapon, repeat. It never challenges you to actually learn how to use the weapon and incentivizes you to drop the weapon or else you aren't getting that sweet, sweet Mastery points. On top of this, it also incentivises spending a bunch of money/resources in order to get a bunch of weapons and warframes for it, not even mentioning the platinum problem.

That being said, it's not a bad system as it stands, at least near the beginning. But between how much it takes to even grind up One single rank later on, along with the dumping of weapons that might be used otherwise with a system that also rewards Formaing and using items that might not gain Mastery rank points (Cause seriously, as it stands right now, there's no other point than maybe getting the items from lens, which I thought was a wonderful addition to the game) a bit more. The Lens were a great step in the right direction, but it simply doesn't do enough for it. I dumped Excal Umbra and his set near immediately when I realized it was a maxed out set, saying to myself "Oh great, it's maxed so no MR Points, welp, that sucks." before moving on.

Maybe it's just me honestly, but I would love to hear your opinion on this. Tell your thoughts below in the comments

-Char

First of all, remove the Megathread tag since its exclusive for DE staff. Now to the topic :

Its on you tbh.

The whole point of the MR system is to force you to try other weapons, even if they suck, because eventually you might find good/fun weapons you like and keep them, obviously no one whit high MR would keep a Skana or an MR fooder weapon on them wen they have a melee like Gram Prime or Gallantine Prime, but I have to say that it was thanks to the MR system that I found out about Redeemer and Staticor (even though I got bored of them eventually).

Dont know what "plat problem" you are talking about unless you are referring to weapon slots that in which case should not be a problem since as you said it pump and dump so you will always have a free slot unless you want to keep the weapon, but even so getting 20p to buy 2 more slots isn't that hard.

About Excal Umbra, thats specially on you, you are the one whit the mindset that its pump and dump, Excal Umbra is indeed a good frame and I use him from time to time, if you get a fully ranked weapon and immediately drop it whiteout trying some builds means that you are the one at fault and not the system.

[o0Despair0o]

First things first: The Megathread tag is for DE staff only.

 

Now, the MR system is fine the way it is.

Weapons all feel the same in this game. You aim, you click, you watch the thing you hit die. Recoil is a bad joke in this game and the sound effects don't help.

"Learning" a weapon in Warframe is completely pointless. All you need to know is that by today's Meta, everything that doesn't oneshot a demi-god automatically sucks and that Rivens are more important than food.

 

And oh boy, "platinum problem" ? I'm not even going to bother to read more at this point.

The only problems here are that people refuse to understand that platinum isn't required to play the game, and the fact that MR means nothing.

They see a secondary currency in the game and instantly think "omfg this game is p2w smfh" when in reality all plat does it save time or get you access to cosmetic items. Not to mention that said plat can be earned via trading.

 

 

But fear not, I have a solution for you:

 

Get your head out of the clouds and open your eyes. With a little bit of thinking you'll realize that the game doesn't require you to unlock and max out everything in one go, and that you're not forced to "dump" maxed out gear.

I mean, can you believe that maxing your MR rank is, in fact, not the main goal of the game? Amazing, isn't it? Because... the REAL goal of the game is...

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

to have fun for god's sake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FlusteredFerret]

2 hours ago, pokrmon55623 said:

Hi, I'm not entirely sure how to start this, but I'll try I guess. I been playing since near the launch of the ps4, or around Update...8? I want to say? I was here before the whole Junctions became a thing if that helps, and I also played PC. I grew to 9 and 10 MR respectivably across the platforms and I'm still playing to grind up. 

There's quite a big problem with Mastery Rank as it stands (What else is new?) and that's how it's incentives work. Right now it's: Buy a new weapon, stick it in your loadout, grind to 30, dump weapon, repeat. It never challenges you to actually learn how to use the weapon and incentivizes you to drop the weapon or else you aren't getting that sweet, sweet Mastery points. On top of this, it also incentivises spending a bunch of money/resources in order to get a bunch of weapons and warframes for it, not even mentioning the platinum problem.

That being said, it's not a bad system as it stands, at least near the beginning. But between how much it takes to even grind up One single rank later on, along with the dumping of weapons that might be used otherwise with a system that also rewards Formaing and using items that might not gain Mastery rank points (Cause seriously, as it stands right now, there's no other point than maybe getting the items from lens, which I thought was a wonderful addition to the game) a bit more. The Lens were a great step in the right direction, but it simply doesn't do enough for it. I dumped Excal Umbra and his set near immediately when I realized it was a maxed out set, saying to myself "Oh great, it's maxed so no MR Points, welp, that sucks." before moving on.

Maybe it's just me honestly, but I would love to hear your opinion on this. Tell your thoughts below in the comments

-Char

Not a problem for me. I learn about my frames and weapons by playing the game. MR is just something that happens as a consequence and I do the tests, as and when I'm able to.

Some of the tests actually DO test your abilities, weapon selection and general problem solving - especially if you don't have "meta" gear to cheese them.

 

I'm not sure why you need "incentivisation" to rank up, when its simply a by-product of playing the game...

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Basically OP you're missing the point of all the weapons. It's not so you can grind your MR rank as fast as possible and show off your shiny rank, it's so you have variety in the game. If you want to level and dump every weapon then that's on you. Personally I have over 100 weapons with about 4 or more forma on each because I like having options and quite frankly, kitting out lots of weapons is a decent chunk of content in this game. Basically you're just rushing the game rather than enjoying every aspect of it.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

26 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

First things first: The Megathread tag is for DE staff only.

 

Now, the MR system is fine the way it is.

Weapons all feel the same in this game. You aim, you click, you watch the thing you hit die. Recoil is a bad joke in this game and the sound effects don't help.

"Learning" a weapon in Warframe is completely pointless. All you need to know is that by today's Meta, everything that doesn't oneshot a demi-god automatically sucks and that Rivens are more important than food.

 

And oh boy, "platinum problem" ? I'm not even going to bother to read more at this point.

The only problems here are that people refuse to understand that platinum isn't required to play the game, and the fact that MR means nothing.

They see a secondary currency in the game and instantly think "omfg this game is p2w smfh" when in reality all plat does it save time or get you access to cosmetic items. Not to mention that said plat can be earned via trading.

 

 

But fear not, I have a solution for you:

 

Get your head out of the clouds and open your eyes. With a little bit of thinking you'll realize that the game doesn't require you to unlock and max out everything in one go, and that you're not forced to "dump" maxed out gear.

I mean, can you believe that maxing your MR rank is, in fact, not the main goal of the game? Amazing, isn't it? Because... the REAL goal of the game is...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

  Hide contents

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

to have fun for god's sake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Damn you, I clicked on every one of those, couldn't help myself 😞

[Alaeacus]

MR is busy-work.  Nothing more, nothing less.