DE did it again.

[Jiminez_Burial]

1 minute ago, Altagraive said:

As opposed to "this is unethical anti-consumer practice and it should stop"

But the argument is being made that it's not.  You have an opinion (that is far from fact set in stone) and people are conversing with you as to why that opinion isn't correct.  That sounds like standard discourse does it not?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

sigh.. I don't think this thread is going anywhere but Locksville.

how about this as a compromise though: farmable vaulted cosmetics;

every so often, DE could throw some relics in Baro's inventory that have a chance of dropping some of the vaulted Prime cosmetics. that way you can get them without plat, but not entirely for free.  also by giving them to Baro they won't further dilute drop tables and give players incentive to farm Ducats.

[sleepychewbacca]

3 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

As opposed to "this is unethical anti-consumer practice and it should stop"

By who's definition? Not mine. Yours? 

That definitely brings us back to "I care, so you should".  

Not saying you're wrong, but as a 'common player', I don't see any reason why I should band against it. You can if you want to, but please don't lump me in with your crusade. 

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

You keep saying that but I'm not sure it means what you think it means. 

[Altagraive]

The situation currently is exactly the same as it was during unvaults not being separated, but it's now on a smaller scale.

In principle nothing have changed, they still sell you duplicates with items you don't have, so you have to buy the entire thing.

It's just as unethical now as it was before.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

sigh.. I don't think this thread is going anywhere but Locksville.

how about this as a compromise though: farmable vaulted cosmetics;

every so often, DE could throw some relics in Baro's inventory that have a chance of dropping some of the vaulted Prime cosmetics. that way you can get them without plat, but not entirely for free.  also by giving them to Baro they won't further dilute drop tables and give players incentive to farm Ducats.

That will invite cries of "this is a slap in the face to everyone who bought this before!" And "he already brings useless stuff, now you're just adding to it!"

I don't see an issue with selling cosmetic packs, it brings in revenue for the game so we can keep playing it.  If you really want to see how its set up as exploitive, I can see how it could be interprited that way but, come on, it's DE.  They make mistakes and will only fix then a few years down the road when the more excitable element of the community has moved on to something new.  

Any mess up is more likely due to their endearing incompetence than malice. 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

7 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

By who's definition? Not mine. Yours? 

That definitely brings us back to "I care, so you should".  

Not saying you're wrong, but as a 'common player', I don't see any reason why I should band against it. You can if you want to, but please don't lump me in with your crusade. 

+1 for the PB gif

[Jiminez_Burial]

9 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

The situation currently is exactly the same as it was during unvaults not being separated, but it's now on a smaller scale.

In principle nothing have changed, they still sell you duplicates with items you don't have, so you have to buy the entire thing.

It's just as unethical now as it was before.

ONLY IF YOU CHOOSE TO BUY EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM THE MOMENT THEY'RE AVAILABLE.  Just wait, that's all you have to do.  If you don't think something is worth buying, THEN DON'T BUY IT.  It's not some vast conspiracy that DE are wanting to serve you duplicates, it's just that they're giving people the chance to buy only 2 items that they want when they're available.  At this point I wonder if what you truly want is for EVERY prime accessory to be available in a list where you can tick the exact two you want.  Another conclusion is that you just want what benefits YOU and are trying to bandwagon people into following you by throwing around trigger words such as 'exploitative' and 'unethical' (which is the same s**t that has caused 'literally' to become meaningless).  The only other conclusion is that you are truly incapable of critical thought.  At this point I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your responses.  The healthy choice is obviously laugh.

Some advice, it's a good habit to get into to play your very own devil's advocate with any idea you have.  Your perception and belief does not dictate reality.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Jiminez_Burial

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

That will invite cries of "this is a slap in the face to everyone who bought this before!" And "he already brings useless stuff, now you're just adding to it!"

true.. really can't please everyone can they? I was just throwing it out there.. plus if DE did cave in to what OP wants (unlikely), would there not also be "slap in the face" threads from those who bought bundles when it was the only option? maybe it's not the solution.. but I somehow doubt people complaining about it on here is.

 

1 minute ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

+1 for the PB gif

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you sold one of the few Prime cosmetics I need in a bundle with stuff I already have, prepare to read a very long paragraph of me saying your business practices are unethical!"

[Sajochi]

I recall this quote

"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."

You see OP, you have an opinion but you need to do some due diligence about it. How exactly is this "exploiting" anyone? Why should we care? Where is your evidence besides some random youtuber?

Maybe you could approach this differently, perhaps in a suggestion of some sort. Something like 

"I would like individual cosmetics available for purchase from cosmetic packs. My reasons are

- helps avoid duplicate cosmetic purchases

- allows players to choose exactly what they want

I'm sure this can benefit more players than just me."

If you went with that approach, you probably wouldn't have this much push back. And you're getting this much push back because you're trying to shove a misinformed opinion down our throats. 

Anyways, back to my lurking. I see a grim future for this thread. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Sajochi

[MagPrime]

Just now, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

true.. really can't please everyone can they? I was just throwing it out there.. plus if DE did cave in to what OP wants (unlikely), would there not also be "slap in the face" threads from those who bought bundles when it was the only option? maybe it's not the solution.. but I somehow doubt people complaining about it on here is.

 

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you sold one of the few Prime cosmetics I need in a bundle with stuff I already have, prepare to read a very long paragraph of me saying your business practices are unethical!"

I think breaking it down to single time purchases would get a free pass from the community, manly because it's what they would have wanted to begin with. 

DE gets forgiven awfully fast when they do something the community likes, even though it would logically incite a rage across the forums because it's identical to something they did the community didn't like before. 

Fickle heart, our community has. 

 

[Altagraive]

I already said all of that.

Making packs unmixed or giving players option to upgrade previously bought packs would fix the issue.

Then the whether the practice is being exploitative on purpose or by mistake beside the point.

They can fix it, but if they won't it would indicate that this is by design.

They didn't fix it on larger scale before big internet content creator called them out on it, which rules out the possibility of them doing it "by mistake".

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Altagraive said:

I already said all of that.

Making packs unmixed or giving players option to upgrade previously bought packs would fix the issue.

Then the whether the practice is being exploitative on purpose or by mistake beside the point.

They can fix it, but if they won't it would indicate that this is by design.

They didn't fix it on larger scale before big internet content creator called them out on it, which rules out the possibility of them doing it "by mistake".

Unless DE flat out says the YouTube call out is the reason for the change, you can't claim that it was.  

The timing is suspect, certainly, there is a possibility, agreed but, without confirmation, you're building your platform on a mud pit and it's gonna sink fast. 

[Altagraive]

They literally mention Jim Sterling name on stream.

Спойлер

 

 

[MagPrime]

Just now, Altagraive said:

They literally mention Jim Sterling name on stream.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

And unless they say he's the reason for the change, it still doesn't mean what you want it to mean. 

[sleepychewbacca]

3 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

They literally mention Jim Sterling name on stream.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

You're making a fairly large reach here. All they said was he talked about it before they did. There's no conclusive proof that he's the sole reason they changed how Prime Unvaultings go. 

Coincidental? Perhaps. They did have a stream end early because of that fire alarm, so as far as we are concerned, there's no proof to either statement. 

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

And unless they say he's the reason for the change, it still doesn't mean what you want it to mean. 

^ Very much this. 

[Ced23Ric]

14 minutes ago, Altagraive said:

They literally mention Jim Sterling name on stream.

You did watch that video, too, where Jim Sterling points out himself that he was a final push and not the initial reason for the change, right?

[0_The_F00l]

It would be nice if we can buy individual pieces of the bundle,

buy they should be relatively higher cost than their discounted bundle value so there is actually a reason to buy the whole bundle as well. 

Maybe I only want the armor and don't care about the boosters and the sugatra. 

I am willing to pay 12$ for just armor  but 20$ for the whole accessory pack more than half of which I don't need is a no sale for me,

though people might say it is "lost savings", These people should not be permitted to manage their house finances and groceries.

 

But I would not qualify DE practice as exploitative. And definitely not anti consumer. I do believe OP is exaggerating and I don't support his views. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by 0_The_F00l
Additions

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

There is nothing exploitive about adding, changing, or removing something from a cosmetic pack.

• You can see the contents of the pack before you buy it.
• You can see the price of the pack before you buy it.
• the cosmetics are optional.

What does this mean? This means if the pack contains 10 items and costs 10 dollars, and you have 9 of the ten items, you either:

A) Buy it, in which case YOU (not DE, not me) value the one skin you don't have at 10 dollars

B) Don't buy it, in which case YOU do not value the skin at 10 dollars.

And as a final point, 

Quote

Cosmetics matter because they allow players to express themselves in video games just like different play styles do. DE knows this and exploits this.

cosmetics don't matter.   If the only thing that matters is a single cosmetic and that is the only way you feel you can properly express yourself, you need to get out more.  There are plenty of cosmetics, plenty of colors, plenty of weapons, warframes, etc.  The idea DE is "exploiting" players because they choose to bundle a skin with some others is laughable.

 

[Goodwill]

I see it like this, the $22 (AUD) I'm paying is for the Sugatra and the Platinum, while the Edo Prime set is just a thrown in freebie.

[Halrawk]

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

It would be nice if we can buy individual pieces of the bundle,

buy they should be relatively higher cost than their discounted bundle value so there is actually a reason to buy the whole bundle as well. 

Maybe I only want the armor and don't care about the boosters and the sugatra. 

I am willing to pay 12$ for just armor  but 20$ for the whole accessory pack more than half of which I don't need is a no sale for me,

though people might say it is "lost savings", These people should not be permitted to manage their house finances and groceries.

This pretty much solves the issue. Even for people who don't think it's an issue (since it effectively changes nothing, just gives options) 

[LupisV0lk]

Funny thing, DE had planned on talking about the changes to prime vaults but the fire alarm stopped that. A E-cleb didn't bring about change.

[IntheCoconut]

I'm not really sure why DE doesn't sell items individually instead of as a bundle, or use a method to reduce the price of a bundle if a player already has some of the items in said bundle.

I'm sure they have a reason, but the only thing I can think of is that they are hesitant to do either of these methods because they would inevitably place an exact price/value on specific pieces. I don't know why that would be something they'd avoid, but maybe they don't like committing to saying that a sugatra costs exactly $4.35 and an armor set costs $15.65.

[Lionsheart89]

I will admit to being slightly let down by the fact that they decided to release the Edo Prime armor again and not something "new" but eh, the other cosmetics are nice. The pack is worth it just for the plat alone.

[JackHargreav]

Warframe is really far away from the money hungry "AAA" publishers. Warframe actually gives you an easy way to get anything you want.

It's also really far away from other MMOs. Like Tera. In warframe if you get a cosmetic, you keep the cosmetic. In Tera a free cosmetic will have a time limit for example.

As far as the prime bundles go. I just don't care about them. The frames I can get myself and cosmetics are just cosmetics. I can get the cosmetics in the game really easily as I said. So why would I care?

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

In warframe if you get a cosmetic, you keep the cosmetic

Unless you're a Switch player due to that Tennogen bug (My poor Eisen skin T_T). Its gonna be many a day until I see that sword skin again.

I can fully concede however though that excessive bundling of cosmetics can be irritating, like the Harka Longsword skin only coming with Frost's deluxe skin in a bundle.

Off-Topic: Though I've gotta say, I'm impressed that the topic was locked, commented on by a mod, then unlocked and rolled into a second thread, without any of the pages of memes and semantics arguments removed. Mods work in mysterious ways.