We need more Hard Limits on Abilities....

[Lutesque]

What I mean by this is we need More Abilities like Nova's Antimatter Drop....

Regardless of what type of Nova you build Anti Matter Drop Always has a use...

Why ? 

 Because theres a hard limit on how far it goes... 15 Meters. No more no less.... add to the fact that its damage scales off how hard you hit it and this makes it one of the best Designed Abilities in the game.... simply because you don't have to Mod for it in any way shape or form.... it works regardless of what you do to Nova....

we need more abilities that behave this way....example... all support buffs should work exactly like Trinity's Blessing and Harrow's Covenant (Affinity Range)....

Every single Warframe should have one ability that cant be made OP by mods bit also can't be rendered useless by corrupted mods or specialised builds a la Anti Matter Drop....

Would this make some Warframes over powered ? Quite Frankly I couldn't give a S#&$. I just want some god damn In mission Variety...

Harrow Is Cool... mostly due to the fact that he has the best ability Synergy In The Game (in a vaccuum).... if we want an example of Synergy done wrong and Synergy done right simply compare Harrow with Saryn... Harrow's Abilities all work In Equal parts.... they have their own Function but become equally powerful when chained together the key word here being Equall... Saryn on the other Hand is all about Miasma....

You use the Spores to Boost Miasma.... you use her Toxic Lash to help the spores Spread to boost the damage of Miasma.... you Use Molt.... to survive so you can spread the spores to boost Miasma.... Nothing was changed with Saryn.... she's still a brain dead one button Frame.... its that that onr buttone now has Prerequisite Buttons that don't do anything on their own really....

Honestly I feel like theres no Hope for Saryn because Warframe is all about killing alot of S#&$ and Saryn is very good at killing alot of S#&$ so As long as she has miasma thats all there is too build for really.

[DoTengri]

If you dont like it, dont use it.

If you dont like others use it, play solo.

Problem solved, you are most welcome! 😉

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by DoTengri

[taiiat]

Quote

 No more no less

so, what you're saying is you want to remove Ability Stat Mods from the game?

i really fail to see how making customization of any sort impossible is a way to increase variety of what you do in Gameplay.
probably because these two things are polar opposites of each other.

Edited May 1, 2019 by taiiat

[Autongnosis]

I agree for some things and disagree for some things. For example, the point on abilities not being made useless or op with mods. I agree on that note, but making them unmoddable is imo not the way to go. I'd rather they take Molecular Prime route where you can use it as nuke, CC, speed etc. 

I also agree that most team buffs should be based off affinity range regardless of your ability range stat. 

On the note of sinergy and harrow vs saryn, i am worried about what you say on saryn because it tells me you don't understand the basics of the frame. Miasma is not the point. Miasma is just another tool, like Spores and Toxin Lash. If you want to actually see what Saryn is about, try to actually build your loadout on using all her tools and see the difference. 

[Xavori]

I disagree very strongly OP.

I like that I can tweak how my abilities function, or I can build to take full advantage of just 1 or 2 and ignore the rest.  

For example, I have a duality Equinox.  She never, EVER uses any other abilities because I'm never bothering to stay day/night to use those abilities properly.  Instead, I'm all about making sure there are of two of me all the time.  It's a fun way to play that no other frame can do.

My Mirage is built around her mirrors.  Same reason.  it's unique to her, and I modded her to maximize that one ability even tho it means the rest of them don't work well at all (well, 3 is okay).

And you're wrong on Saryn, and you even explained how you are wrong.  She's not "brain dead one button Frame" as you yourself pointed out.  You use spores.  Then you use lash to make sure your spread spores.   You don't want to keep hitting your 1, which means you are not playing brain dead, but instead are thinking at least a tiny bit about how to get spores onto new targets without nerfing spore damage by hitting 1 again.  You use 2 for survival, and your 4 is your "hi guys...all you guys...like 20 guys...alll around me" button.

Harrow is all about eddy farming.  Seriously.  I never see him anywhere else.  Same with Volt.  I suspect we'll see Volt other place for at least a week or two now tho.

But back to your point that we shouldn't be able to mod abilities...

Uhg.  I love that I have to choose.  I can use Equinox's full range of abilities, or I can double up a weapon and/or have my damage done by my clone while I bounce around like a hamster on ****** (Drugs are bad!).  I love that my build for Titania is almost certainly radically different than the most popular builds which is why my Titania is likely the best assassination frame I have even if she sucks at quite a few other game modes.

And so on

So no.  We don't need to take away player choice.  We need more of it.  We need to get even more extreme in what we can mod for via tradeoffs.

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

What I mean by this is we need More Abilities like Nova's Antimatter Drop....

Regardless of what type of Nova you build Anti Matter Drop Always has a use...

Why ? 

 Because theres a hard limit on how far it goes... 15 Meters. No more no less.... add to the fact that its damage scales off how hard you hit it and this makes it one of the best Designed Abilities in the game.... simply because you don't have to Mod for it in any way shape or form.... it works regardless of what you do to Nova....

we need more abilities that behave this way....example... all support buffs should work exactly like Trinity's Blessing and Harrow's Covenant (Affinity Range)....

Every single Warframe should have one ability that cant be made OP by mods bit also can't be rendered useless by corrupted mods or specialised builds a la Anti Matter Drop....

Would this make some Warframes over powered ? Quite Frankly I couldn't give a S#&$. I just want some god damn In mission Variety...

Harrow Is Cool... mostly due to the fact that he has the best ability Synergy In The Game (in a vaccuum).... if we want an example of Synergy done wrong and Synergy done right simply compare Harrow with Saryn... Harrow's Abilities all work In Equal parts.... they have their own Function but become equally powerful when chained together the key word here being Equall... Saryn on the other Hand is all about Miasma....

You use the Spores to Boost Miasma.... you use her Toxic Lash to help the spores Spread to boost the damage of Miasma.... you Use Molt.... to survive so you can spread the spores to boost Miasma.... Nothing was changed with Saryn.... she's still a brain dead one button Frame.... its that that onr buttone now has Prerequisite Buttons that don't do anything on their own really....

Honestly I feel like theres no Hope for Saryn because Warframe is all about killing alot of S#&$ and Saryn is very good at killing alot of S#&$ so As long as she has miasma thats all there is too build for really.

Her spores can do just as much damage and kill just as fast as miasma, molt is straight survivability, toxic lash gives you a ton of extra damage for all weapons plus bursts spores on melee, and yet miasma is all that matters? Lol I murder the crap out of everything without touching miasma once 🤣

The rest i do agree with, chroma though would be made even more massively op and even more necessary for eidolon hunts than ever with that much range on something like vex armor or elemental ward cause then you can just crank on strength and everyone will have a 800% buff all the time instead of having to gather up near chroma. 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

No, we do not.

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

we need more abilities that behave this way....example... all support buffs should work exactly like Trinity's Blessing and Harrow's Covenant (Affinity Range)....

So basically, in the end, you want to made more stupidly OP because you can happily min/max all you want without ever having to do the actually min part of it?
With this idea I could maximize Rhino's Roar to 91.8 second duration without touching the range at all and have a 50 meter (75 meter If I'm using Vazarin focus) radius instead of going down to 8.5 meters.

Sorry but this idea is fundamentally broken and would just be too powerful.

Or what about Chroma?  Vex armor provides its buff to everyone in a radius...could you imagine how stupidly OP it would be to have 2 min/maxed chromas that now have a vex armor that buffs everyone withing 50-75 meters, including each other, without having to pay anything for that range?

I can see that you want to have more brain-dead modding that makes us more powerful, but that is honestly the last thing that needs to be added to the game.

[Mez999]

Unless I’m reading it wrongly, you just described how Saryn’s abilities synergise well with each other. 

And I disagree as it will create OP frames, more than they already are. Using corrupted mods is what keeps most frames in check and forces you to create varied builds. 

[ranks21]

sounds like warframe 1.0 days of past when you only max one ability.. bring up Saryn is lame in the fact that her abilities targets health and armor, the two things you mod everything for to do damage against the enemies>>

there is nothing op in warframe, if there was such a thing we wouldn't be needing arcanes, faction specific mods, elemental damages etc, so that in itself is a silly concept.

synergies is a slippery slope in this game, it's good in some ways and bad in others. you can be immortal in a group or just with 2 frames. one for pure dps and just add limbo to make that frame invincible where it is immune to damage and both frames buff each other but gas and nullifiers and other equalizing enemies exists.

point is the game is ok when it comes to damage, energy, survivability on their own and at higher levels dependent on the player, but using any frame as a one stop kill all is just silly. the 4 types of frames in warframe are  offensive, defensive, support, and de/ buffers. the most of these types of abilities one frame has is 3 and that includes their categorial role of the 4 types mentioned.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Everyone's giving constructive feedback and I'm still just puzzled as to why you would use Saryn that way. Miasma to spread spores? Really? It destroys spores at the bonus of ramping the damage up, a double edged sword that takes requires you to pay attention to use well. And it can also be used as a low level nuke. Saryn used to be about press4towin, they changed the OP AoE of Miasma and it's very basic mechanics as a result. Use it too early and you'll break your combo. I think you need to re-learn how to use her.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

sounds like warframe 1.0 days of past when you only max one ability.. bring up Saryn is lame in the fact that her abilities targets health and armor, the two things you mod everything for to do damage against the enemies>>

there is nothing op in warframe, if there was such a thing we wouldn't be needing arcanes, faction specific mods, elemental damages etc, so that in itself is a silly concept.

No there are actually OP things, mostly specific setups, this example by OP is just not one of them. Arcanes aren't required for being OP they are just icing on the cake that generally speaking improve efficiency or survivability.

[Vortuna]

Everything in OP with "we" changed to "I".

[YazMatazO]

Thing with Saryn is that she gets considerably weaker in later levels, and in arbitrations in general. That is if you build her primarily for range. I build mine for tankiness, and while she can't clear with the same speed, she also doesn't die(taken her two hours deep in arbitration survival). In the mean time range saryns clear 8 waves of Eso well enough, although I still have to provide first aid for them. 

It really comes down to what is important for you. If you don't care about getting knocked down, then I suppose range/strength saryn is your thing. 

I understand OP first sentiment, though. There are some abilities in the game that just have decent functionality added to their base kit, and don't need a lot of modding to be good. Trinity is probably the best example. I can take mine quite deep in the levels and still be able to provide support, as well as do my share of clearing without becoming a burden to the team. Mesa, for example, can't do that. 

[Loza03]

I'd prefer limits to be placed by updating enemy design. Mesa's limiting factor shouldn't be an arbitrary number, it should be, well, melee enemies or enemies with physical shields and barriers. She's tuned for gunfights, not armour piercing or getting stabbed. Volts no longer being limited in terms of damage is a good thing - but he should have a new limit in terms of not being able to fine-tune his discharge and thus certain enemies redirect damage from others. Those enemies would wind up taking more at the expense of missing some targets in very tight clusters since that's how electricity works and a random blast would have some of it be grounded, destroying whatever did real good but leaving some parts untouched. So on and so forth - enemies should pose the limits on players. That way, more different frames and parts of loadouts can have more roles - for example a frame that counters melee enemies or shield lancer-like foes would have a very distinct synergy with Mesa. Such and such like that.

[Guest]

I dunno, when I see "Saryn is about Miasma" I start wondering "does OP even play Saryn". It's better to spread Spore using Toxic Lash and rapid fire unless you have no LOS and desperately need to keep it going.

How does Harrow even have "Synergy"? He is just a casual "manage these buffs on a timer" thing with his 1 making it easier to headshot and restore shields for his 2, which is kinda a "forced" synergy that is basically no synergy at all. Nova is actually one of those true Synergy Frames without gimmick synergies, especially with the new Molecular Fission Augment, same for Nidus, where the gimmicks are insignificant.

I would say, if abilities had hard limits, it would make modding less based on trade offs ... which will piss off some people. I dunno what to make of it though.

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Guest

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, (PS4)SCP-100912 said:

Her spores can do just as much damage and kill just as fast as miasma, molt is straight survivability, toxic lash gives you a ton of extra damage for all weapons plus bursts spores on melee, and yet miasma is all that matters? Lol I murder the crap out of everything without touching miasma once 🤣

When push comes to shove... Its all spores.... this doesn't happen to Nova.... all her tools remain relevant regardless of hoe tough enemies get....

1 hour ago, (PS4)SCP-100912 said:

The rest i do agree with, chroma though would be made even more massively op and even more necessary for eidolon hunts than ever with that much range on something like vex armor or elemental ward cause then you can just crank on strength and everyone will have a 800% buff all the time instead of having to gather up near chroma. 

Good... Now that some straight up Co-Op Ninja Level S#&$ Right there !!! 😄

I say Bring it !!!! 

1 hour ago, Mez999 said:

Unless I’m reading it wrongly, you just described how Saryn’s abilities synergise well with each other. 

You're forgeting that they don't do so in equal measure.... Miasma is the main Ability... the rest Are servants of Miasma....

Again... this isn't the case With harrow... All his abilitiies are equal contributers to his synergy.... well Thurible needs to be Preceded by covenant but Other than that he's not a sneaky pseudo one button Frame like Saryn. 

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

so, what you're saying is you want to remove Ability Stat Mods from the game?

Obviously didn't read what I wrote... 

2 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

I agree for some things and disagree for some things. For example, the point on abilities not being made useless or op with mods. I agree on that note, but making them unmoddable is imo not the way to go. I'd rather they take Molecular Prime route where you can use it as nuke, CC, speed etc. 

I actually agree with this and the thought did occur to me.... and then I remembered this was Warframe and some bugs are still unfixed 3 Years Straight so I decided to keep things Realistically within DE's reach.

2 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

On the note of sinergy and harrow vs saryn, i am worried about what you say on saryn because it tells me you don't understand the basics of the frame. Miasma is not the point. Miasma is just another tool, like Spores and Toxin Lash. If you want to actually see what Saryn is about, try to actually build your loadout on using all her tools and see the difference. 

I did.... I don't like Miasma but if you want to be Successful with this Frame then this is it.... infact its so Bad that molt actually reaches a point where it just doesn't work anymore 

1 hour ago, Xavori said:

 

I like that I can tweak how my abilities function, or I can build to take full advantage of just 1 or 2 and ignore the rest

I like that too.... but this isn't how Warframe works.... in Warframe you don't tweak how some abilities.... you basically completely turn other Abilities off so you can use the one you want.... Basically you "Mod for [Insert Ability Here] and thats what you do for the whole mission.

1 hour ago, Xavori said:

But back to your point that we shouldn't be able to mod abilities...

Again... Didn't read what I wrote....

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

So basically, in the end, you want to made more stupidly OP because you can happily min/max all you want without ever having to do the actually min part of it?

Duh.... 

If they're not going fix the Enemy scaling then Embrace the chaos and let the players be OP too.

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

With this idea I could maximize Rhino's Roar to 91.8 second duration without touching the range at all and have a 50 meter (75 meter If I'm using Vazarin focus) radius instead of going down to 8.5 meters.

BRING IT !!! 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Sorry but this idea is fundamentally broken and would just be too powerful.

But It would be WAAAAAAAY More fun !!! this is a game after all. 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Or what about Chroma?  Vex armor provides its buff to everyone in a radius...could you imagine how stupidly OP it would be to have 2 min/maxed chromas that now have a vex armor that buffs everyone withing 50-75 meters, including each other, without having to pay anything for that range?

Good.... BRING IT !!! :) 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

 

I can see that you want to have more brain-dead modding that makes us more powerful, but that is honestly the last thing that needs to be added to the game

Its brain dead anyway..... if you're gonna be brain dead then I'd rather we be brain dead OP rather then Brain Dead weak and boring.

1 hour ago, ranks21 said:

point is the game is ok when it comes to damage, energy, survivability on their own and at higher levels dependent on the player, but using any frame as a one stop kill all is just silly.

Yeah and....? Silly ? Debateable...

Fun ? OH YES !!!

17 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

I dunno, when I see "Saryn is about Miasma" I start wondering "does OP even play Saryn". It's better to spread Spore using Toxic Lash and rapid fire unless you have no LOS and desperately need to keep it going

And why would you do this ? FOR MIASMA !!!! 

18 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

How does Harrow even have "Synergy"? He is just a casual "manage these buffs on a timer" thing with his 1 making it easier to headshot and restore shields for his 2, which is kinda a "forced" synergy that is basically no synergy at all.

I did say "In a Vaccuum" did I not ? In any case I'd much rather have Forced Synergy then use one ability for the Whole Mission.... 

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

13 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

You're forgeting that they don't do so in equal measure.... Miasma is the main Ability... the rest Are servants of Miasma....

This statement is just so incredibly wrong that it's hard to take anything else you say seriously. I also seriously doubt you want abilities to be OP so you can simply god kill everything. Given your other threads and your lack of understanding on many abilities, I'd say you just want the game to be easier. It's far too easy already.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

so, what you're saying is you want to remove Ability Stat Mods from the game?

i really fail to see how making customization of any sort impossible is a way to increase variety of what you do in Gameplay.
probably because these two things are polar opposites of each other.

I was about to say the exact same thing but I see you beat me to it.

If anything the "hard limit" on AMD feels like an oversight/bug that they decided to let slide because it's more than powerful enough as it is, and if they allowed us to increase the range the nuking potential would just be absurd.

 

[Learicorn]

You'd literally kill Nyx with your suggestion but you go off bud, good thing nobody's gonna take you seriously

[Alexandrious]

All I see lately is chroma, saryn and mesa, and my god do they worship my oberon when I pick up their arse from the ground.

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Obviously didn't read what I wrote... 

i responded to almost word for what what you wrote.

Antimatter Drop literally does not scale with Mods at all. the Ability is always the same. it is fixed in space and time, there is no Customization to it.
but Antimatter Drop one one of your prime examples of 'a good Ability'.

Edited May 1, 2019 by taiiat

[CephalonDizzy]

LOL...implying pubbies will actually stay within affinity range...

 

Sorry Jackie Paper, if you want the magic dragon's buff, gotta pay him in hugs.

 

12 hours ago, Lutesque said:

What I mean by this is we need More Abilities like Nova's Antimatter Drop....

Regardless of what type of Nova you build Anti Matter Drop Always has a use...

Sure, that's valid.  Some abilities can be looked at again.  Cough cough  anything Wukong and Vauban related cough

 

12 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Every single Warframe should have one ability that cant be made OP by mods bit also can't be rendered useless by corrupted mods or specialised builds a la Anti Matter Drop....

Ok sure, that's valid.  But at the same time Nova is one of those frames who's functionality is GREATLY affected by mods via Speedva vs Slowva.  Has a lot of potential to break stuff if not implemented well.  Maybe not flat out affinity range but a moderate range buff on some stuff could be nice.  Still should be moddable.

I could maybe get behind warframe passives working like mini-auras for everything within affinity range though.

 

12 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Honestly I feel like theres no Hope for Saryn because Warframe is all about killing alot of S#&$ and Saryn is very good at killing alot of S#&$ so As long as she has miasma thats all there is too build for really.

That's a weird way to spell "spores"

 

8 hours ago, Lutesque said:

When push comes to shove... Its all spores.... this doesn't happen to Nova.... all her tools remain relevant regardless of hoe tough enemies get...

Oh yay!  You got it!  Also MP is essential for Nova and it's affected by mods, if it's limited to affinity range it'd be kinda meh.

 

8 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I did.... I don't like Miasma but if you want to be Successful with this Frame then this is it.... infact its so Bad that molt actually reaches a point where it just doesn't work anymore 

Dammit it's spelled S P O R E S!  You got it right earlier!  

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by RushBCyka

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

15 hours ago, Lutesque said:

You use the Spores to Boost Miasma.... you use her Toxic Lash to help the spores Spread to boost the damage of Miasma.... you Use Molt.... to survive so you can spread the spores to boost Miasma.... Nothing was changed with Saryn.... she's still a brain dead one button Frame.... its that that onr buttone now has Prerequisite Buttons that don't do anything on their own really....

Honestly I feel like theres no Hope for Saryn because Warframe is all about killing alot of S#&$ and Saryn is very good at killing alot of S#&$ so As long as she has miasma thats all there is too build for really.

EXCUSE ME?! You did NOT just diss my bae! Obviously you know nothing Jon Snow, goodbye!

[ranks21]

I just logged in and re-read some of what the op stated about abilities and what he is implying about nova and balance. never had I laughed so hard about an ability and what someone said since oberon's pea floaters.

we've already been through modding specifically for 1 or 2 abilities in the past when they were ability mods. now on the matter of anti matter drop,(nova's second ability). obviously he haven't exploited that ability to know how its synergy works to the point where it will do millions of damage, and is quite frankly nova's best ability when it comes to damage and it all depends on the weapon, the dps, and the fire rate/clip size.

23 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Yeah and....? Silly ? Debateable…

sure you have a lot to learn.