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MrKociak

Can we please get the unvaulted relics outside of the void?

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I've noticed that with almost every unvaulting we're getting less and less farming options. During the previous unvaulting we were able to get them from bounties, farming them that way was actually fun and effective (you pick which relic you want to farm, the locations changed ocasionally so it didn't get boring quickly, good drop chances and a possible bonus reward if you're good enough), but now we are forced to grind the same mission over and over and over for a specific relic with 10% drop chance or even lower. Combine that with actually opening the relic and now there's no reason to farm these. It's better to farm literally anything tradable and get the necessary plat to buy the unvaulted items.

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I personally enjoy that because it actually gives us reasons to go in the Void.

They could thematically be linked to Lua though. 😛

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They got moved to the Void because players asked for them to be there, to give the Void a unique purpose again. 

While I'm not against more farming locations, I do like that they aren't cluttering up other drop tables, honestly.  The Void is probably the perfect place to have vaulted relics drop because nothing of significant value drops there any way (AFAIK) 

 

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb MagPrime:

They got moved to the Void because players asked for them to be there, to give the Void a unique purpose again. 

While I'm not against more farming locations, I do like that they aren't cluttering up other drop tables, honestly.  The Void is probably the perfect place to have vaulted relics drop because nothing of significant value drops there any way (AFAIK) 

 

Last year with the unvaulting of rhino/nyx the relics were moved to the void and removed from the bounties and people complaint because specially for the axi relics the void has much lower drop chances. So for the next to unvaults Mag/Nova and Ember/Frost the relics were also in the bounties. Now their again not in the bounties what makes no sense.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

I personally enjoy that because it actually gives us reasons to go in the Void.

They could thematically be linked to Lua though. 😛

I think, if you had no reason to visit the place until being forced, you were not enjoying the place that much.

Edited by (NSW)ForTheGhostsWithin
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3 minutes ago, (NSW)ForTheGhostsWithin said:

I think, if you had no reason to visit the place until being forced, you are not enjoying that place.

That's totally wrong. Most Gamers nowadays only do content for rewards. Remove Kuva from Fortress and nobody would go there. Remove Arcanes from Eidolons and nobody would kill them. Remove the potential catalyst/legendary core from Sortie and nobody would do them. Remove Affinity gains and Ephemera from ESO and nobody would run this content too.

The Void is pretty much like all the other missions in the game. But without any "specific" reward other than the occasional Argon required for a few crafts, there is no incentive to go there, so people just don't go there. Vaulted relics are a great idea to bring people there occasionally.

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11 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

That's totally wrong. Most Gamers nowadays only do content for rewards. Remove Kuva from Fortress and nobody would go there. Remove Arcanes from Eidolons and nobody would kill them. Remove the potential catalyst/legendary core from Sortie and nobody would do them. Remove Affinity gains and Ephemera from ESO and nobody would run this content too.

Not only is that an unjustifiably cynical view of "gamers nowadays," it's also a pretty dire indictment of the quality of the game. If literally the only reason players run content is because they're being paid in scrip to do so and wouldn't touch it otherwise, then that is bad content. Assuming we removed all of the things we said, what WOULD people do? What content would they play? What bit of content is there in the game that players actually enjoy doing for he sake of doing it? Or would people just leave if the Skinner box conditioning went away? Yes, I'm aware that progression and rewards are a primary draw for MMOs and other "live services," but there still needs to be a fundamentally enjoyable game somewhere along the way. Because if that's not the case, then I might as well go play Progression Quest or Clicker Heroes.

Design which relies solely on rewards to motivate engagement is bad design. You can make people play content they otherwise wouldn't by paying them to do it, but you can't make people like content they don't like this way. The best you can hope for is to make them feel begrudgingly obligated to do it, resenting their time and complaining about it the entire way through. That is not good game design.

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Except bounties are 10x more effective to farm unvaulted relics. Thats why Axi UNCOMMON drops were more expensive than anything rare from unvaulting, cause the drop chances for Axi relics in void are pee poor. And its gonna be same thing with this unvaulting. Good luck at almost 10 minutes run in void sabo to get chance at getting Axi relic. Or you can spamm Ukko like a lunatic 40 sec runs but with lower chance. Yeah cant wait......... Kappa

Actually i dont care im enjoying this nice weather no incentive to sit at computer and getting my buttcheeks sweaty haha. 

Happy farming TenNO! 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Design which relies solely on rewards to motivate engagement is bad design. 

Solely is bad, but there is a massive chunk of design around Rewards. Imagine The Sacrifice without Umbral Mods/Excalibur Umbra as a reward. Imagine the Gas City comes out without Wisp, new Set Mods, or anything of that nature. Sorties without Riven Mods? You play the game because it's fun, and the reason it's fun is because you get rewards along the way. Warframe is still a looter-shooter, so @Chewarette is not exactly wrong.

Relics only dropping from the Void is interesting to me, because it gets really old grinding T5 Fortuna Bounties to get 1,2,3, sometimes 4 Axi Relics from a single Bounty. I really enjoy the T4 Sabotage approach and finding caches for a chance at Bullet Dance/Nitain/Endo. 

The majority of players will always go for the method that drops the most stuff with the highest drop chance. The Loki/Volt Relics are the opposite of this and these are where complaints come from. Bounty Relics, Tusk Thumpers, and the Exploiter Orb set the idea in place to just hand out tons of items as candy for doing one mission/task. When you have to actually grind something (See: this Unvault, Repeller Systems, etc.), it's not well received by a certain group of players.

I think they should expand the drop tables to the Derelict as well but leave it at that. You can give mission variety while still holding the Relics to 2 locations on the map.

Edited by Voltage

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36 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Solely is bad, but there is a massive chunk of design around Rewards. Imagine The Sacrifice without Umbral Mods/Excalibur Umbra as a reward. Imagine the Gas City comes out without Wisp, new Set Mods, or anything of that nature. Sorties without Riven Mods? You play the game because it's fun, and the reason it's fun is because you get rewards along the way. Warframe is still a looter-shooter, so @Chewarette is not exactly wrong.

While that's true, consider what I quoted. You know, the "only do content for rewards" part and such. I acknowledge that the game's progression system is a major part of its appeal, but it can't be the SOLE part. If it is - if players would never play a piece of content unless they were paid to do so - then something is fundamentally wrong with that content. Papering over bad design with rewards is an easy but temporary solution. There's only so long players will run content they don't like before they burn out.

You're also kind of preaching to the wrong person here. I honestly don't care about Wisp or Set Mods altogether, but the Jupiter Gas City is my favourite tileset. That rework is the only issue which interests me. The same goes for Excalibur Umbra - I don't like the Warframe, I don't like any of his weapons and the Umbral Mods are... Fine, but they're little more than glorified Primed versions of Vitality, Steel Fibre and Intensify. I like the Sacrifice for the major lore reveals behind the nature of Warframes, their creation and their implied sentience. I like the game, and wouldn't be here if I didn't regardless of the rewards.

Hell, I've had no interest in the majority of recent content releases. About the only things I was really interested in were the Opticore Vandal because I like the Opticore and Atmospheric Archguns. Well, and the Larkspur. But all the rest of it? Amalgam mods, Hyldrin, Baruuk, Garuda, the random pet mods - meh. Not my thing. The problem is that I genuinely don't like Free Roam maps like Orb Vallis. You can make me play it, but you can't make me like it.

 

44 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I think they should expand the drop tables to the Derelict as well but leave it at that. You can give mission variety while still holding the Relics to 2 locations on the map.

Why is that restriction a good thing, though? Funnelling people through just a narrow slit of all content is a recipe for burnout. Warframe has SO MUCH to offer, yet every piece of content is only available from a minute portion of it. People mentioned the Kuva Fortress, for instance. You know why I play missions there? Because I almost never get to, because nothing which interests ME (don't care about Kuva) ever spawns there, so I rarely get to see it. The same is true of Lua, to a much worse extent. Nothing EVER happens there, so the only time I get to run those missions is when I'm fooling around. I get wanting to motivate people to run particular content, but offering a broader range of viable progression paths helps stave off burnout far more than grinding the same mission over and over again.

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2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

The Void is pretty much like all the other missions in the game.

So, why should we go back to the Void if it is pretty much like all the other missions in the game?

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Cause void lost its purpose pretty much and DE wants to recycle their content, so they put "new" relics there. 

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2 hours ago, (NSW)ForTheGhostsWithin said:

So, why should we go back to the Void if it is pretty much like all the other missions in the game?

You already have more reasons to go to the void than any other place in the starchart. It's the only place to get argon crystals and they decay meaning you can't stockpile them like every other resource. You also get a guaranteed relic for every mission/round while most missions in the starchart give absolutely nothing for completion if they are non-endless or can give you a pitiful amount of credits/Endo or a mod you already have 20 copies of instead.

Even if none of that matters to you because you have crafted everything and have a mountain of relics it matters for other players which is it's one of the only places in the starchart that you can get a pub squad for pretty much every node.

 

And pretty much everyone is going to be touching the tileset once a week for treasure hunts which is more than you can say about anywhere else.

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