"This is high level, we are starting at 35" ....ehm, what? :D

[Chipputer]

7 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

Having a fragmented playerbase means you will meet other players less frequently. It means you often times will do a mission solo or with an incomplete squad,

Here's the actual problem that everyone talking about this is ignoring:
This is already a problem without having a higher level option for those of us who are seeking it. Instead of playing on the low level nodes we're opting to not play at all or stick to only specific things like Arbitrations, Tridolons, etc.

Skim across the entire star chart, even during peak hours. You see the low level planets with a decent number of open squads. As you reach Jupiter it starts to slow down. Eventually you're lucky if you even see a single open squad outside of very specific nodes that are meant for speed leveling (Hydron, Berehynia, Salacia for Archwing) or other objectives (Index for credits, any Fissure).

This is nothing more than concern-trolling. It blatantly ignores an already existing problem and is trying to drag down a completely separate idea with it. Stop. It's dishonest.

6 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

On the other hand I've never seen a single convincing argument that explains why not taking fully ranked or fully modded gear would not be an acceptable alternative.

I've never seen an actual convincing argument that losing mods is a viable solution.
All it's saying is, "hey, reduce all of your build variety so that enemies don't die, there, you've got what you asked for!"
No, that's not what I'm asking for. I already know how to use the mechanics of the game to my advantage. I want to test my knowledge of how to create long lasting builds.

People seem confused on what people asking for higher level nodes and content actually want. Often it's not, "challenge," but rather a way to test our builds without having to spend a ton of time waiting in a survival for the enemies to stand a chance. It's not exactly friendly or desirable to have players wait literal hours at a time for this to happen when we've already seen that DE is capable of adding, "the same thing but higher level," with SO and ESO.

Even this topic is just some guy saying, "yo, I like fighting high level enemies," and not much else.

[IntheCoconut]

8 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Here's the actual problem that everyone talking about this is ignoring:
This is already a problem without having a higher level option for those of us who are seeking it. Instead of playing on the low level nodes we're opting to not play at all or stick to only specific things like Arbitrations, Tridolons, etc.

Skim across the entire star chart, even during peak hours. You see the low level planets with a decent number of open squads. As you reach Jupiter it starts to slow down. Eventually you're lucky if you even see a single open squad outside of very specific nodes that are meant for speed leveling (Hydron, Berehynia, Salacia for Archwing) or other objectives (Index for credits, any Fissure).

This is nothing more than concern-trolling. It blatantly ignores an already existing problem and is trying to drag down a completely separate idea with it. Stop. It's dishonest.

I'm not concern-trolling or being dishonest. Nightwave is the exact solution for DE's problem of new-player retention. It offers rewards that Veterans are interested in, and in order to get those rewards, veterans are being forced to go back and play old content. Do I need to open more caches? No. Do I need any more Nightmare mods? No. Do I need anything from Profit Taker? No. But because I get an Umbra Forma and a flashy new free cosmetic from doing enough of these old missions, guess what I'm doing? I'm actively going back and playing old content that directly serves me no purpose, and new players are being exposed to more of the playerbase as a result.

Edited May 7, 2019 by IntheCoconut

[ikkabotz]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Bingo.

Basically, watch that "100 Day of Warframe" animation on YouTube (it's awesome, and pretty accurate), but then take out the instance of the high-level player showing up.  Now, what would happen to that newbie thereafter?  Hmm...

It's not that DE isn't aware of issues, but many of these so-called "simple fixes" people purport take longer and are more complicated to implement, logistically, than players give them credit for.

There's nothing overtly complicated introducing a sliding scale into the game. If we keep making excuses new players must have veterans cornered into helping them with no options for veterans you push them out. So why is one excusable the other isn't? To add to that, the game once upon a time didn't have veteran players to crutch on. Overall I think it's a false premise anyway. 

Back to the sliding scale modifier. I think it's a niche request that would keep peaking players interested. I doubt the impact would be as severe as most imply and in fact would do more to benefit retention of said players than pushing others away. You favor retaining the player than losing them entirely.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2019-05-06 at 5:16 PM, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Must've been fun getting yelled at for making the eidolon teleport because you couldn't wait for a lure xd but being lower MR u can't be blamed for not knowing that happens

Now for the actual point,  I'd rather take my chance with MR20+ because I'll have a 92% chance that the person will already know what to do perfectly without me even checking his profile. 

MR doesnt matter. Actual time spent playing matters. 

You can rush MR and know squat about the game.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

16 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

See i cant understand this logic because so long as you say build and mod a hek for corrisive or blast youll 1 shot those level 35 enemies. Doesnt even need a forma n its just 3 mods not even leveled proper.

Everyone has access to weapons like hek or better by sedna

 

Most people can't even die because the usual nooby build is shields, hp, intensify, streamline and whatever else bumps up their hp more.

I think you're conflating high level for difficult. I said that they were, relatively speaking, high level. Not that that's in any way difficult for most players.

We also have no idea what other modifiers are in place, for example if the high tier damage modifier is in effect, a la Branch 4 Void missions like Mot. It could be and for a lot of newer players that crushingly high level, just ask any of the people going down *constantly* on Mot.

Starting at level 35 is as high as the highest parts of the Starmap. The only thing that starts higher than them is enthusiast content (Arbis, Sorties, Eidolons, and some Bounties that nobody touches).Can I clear Mot or Hydron with nothing but my Operator and a mediocre amp? Sure. That doesn't mean they aren't high level relative all the other missions.

[(PSN)psycofang]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

hink you're conflating high level for difficult. 

I would assume they were generally linear, admittedly my only exposure to high level over 30 years is if it can take a hit and dish it out and make you afraid its high level.

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

I said that they were, relatively speaking, high level. Not that that's in any way difficult for most players.

Im trying to understand the notion, i probably wont. Dont take this as a sleight against you though, i dont mean it as such.

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

I would assume they were generally linear, admittedly my only exposure to high level over 30 years is if it can take a hit and dish it out and make you afraid its high level.

 

Im trying to understand the notion, i probably wont. Dont take this as a sleight against you though, i dont mean it as such.

Why is this thread still going

Its just repetition 

Anyone that bothered to read the 10 pages knows nothing new is being said

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 hours ago, ikkabotz said:

There's nothing overtly complicated introducing a sliding scale into the game. If we keep making excuses new players must have veterans cornered into helping them with no options for veterans you push them out. So why is one excusable the other isn't? To add to that, the game once upon a time didn't have veteran players to crutch on. Overall I think it's a false premise anyway. 

Back to the sliding scale modifier. I think it's a niche request that would keep peaking players interested. I doubt the impact would be as severe as most imply and in fact would do more to benefit retention of said players than pushing others away. You favor retaining the player than losing them entirely.

Gotcha.  So your opinion is correct, regardless of supporting evidence to back it....but any opinion to the contrary is just "excuses" and "trolling"?  

I think we're done here.  This thread isn't going to go anywhere productive, unfortunately.

[(PSN)psycofang]

1 hour ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Why is this thread still going

Its just repetition 

Anyone that bothered to read the 10 pages knows nothing new is being said

Iunno i saw the thread on page 1 i posted my piece concerning a posters statement.

 

Ive no idea why youre asking me why another persons thread wont die.

[Ziser]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

MR doesnt matter. Actual time spent playing matters. 

You can rush MR and know squat about the game.

I cant ask you to read previously post on this thread as it has reached quite a lot up to now. We gone through this multiply times and while your statment has truth to it it is also false.

The majority of higher mr players are experienced and have more knowledge by the lower mr player spectrum. The number lower mr players that have less experience than higher mr players VERY FAR OUTNUMBERS THAT OF HIGH MR PLAYERS.

You are much more likely to find a high mr player more experienced and knowledgable of the game hence why he said that taking a mr20+ player will have a much higher chance of him knowing what to do without having to teach him. If you to to recruit chat and want players for a efficient farm or mision progress youre not there to teach players, you want already experienced players. Out of that view mr does matter.

Its important to also adress that players have diffrent rates of how well they can learn new things, a MR 14 player can take in the info you teach them and use it quick and good while a mr 24 player is slower to take in and use that info and vice versa. A player can rush mr thus making them quite inexperienced in reality which leads to the argument that mr dosnt matter however its also important to understand that this is present in both groups and theres a WHOLE LOT MORE OF THESE PLAYERS IN THE LOWER MR SPECTRUM ASWELL.

In defence to what Chuckles said in his post that you quoted, MR DOES MATTER.

If you truly want to se a players skill and ecxperience level then you will have to play multiply missions with them for some time but thats not really efficient for quick recruiting in the chat now is it?

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ziser
Addition

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

2 hours ago, Facadedestroyer said:

out of touch and a proof that they dont play they're own game anymore, seems like greed and corporate bs have claimed those ''indie devs'' souls.

their* 

and what are you on about?  The FREE game  where no progress is gated behind a paywall?  That's GREED to you?

Newsflash, DE is a COMPANY with EMPLOYEES and BILLS to pay.  It's not GREEDY for a business to MAKE MONEY.

And DE certainly does nothing to "bleed us dry". 

They ain't greedy.  They literally give you everything at no charge...

It's like if a pizzeria  offered you free meals, so long as you put the toppings on yourself.  And you turn around and exclaim: "Greedy pigs! How dare you make me work for it, too!"

Friggin' hell, the entitlement around here.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

43 minutes ago, Ziser said:

what you say is wrong, and what I say is right.

FTFY

Also, correlation =/= causation.

[Circle_of_Psi]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Facadedestroyer said:

-snip-

I highly doute DE will go down that line of say like most companies are right now (EA/Activision/Bethesda) but given the stunts, they have been pulling of late, as you brought no, PA is now just a Cash-Grab with no Lore or Heart put into it, besides the Art Team (God bless their souls). PA Vaults that "Lock" you out for farming them at all until they come back around or you buy them.

Deluxe skins, I admit are getting better than, say the last "Ember" horror. So, my thoughts on that is a bit "Eh?", As for the Reworks, well, the proof is right there and the new "Changes" to game modes, to cater to the casuals, while goodhearted, is not really acceptable for Vets, as you have seen, countless videos and forum topics about it. 

But yeah, all in all, Fac, I agree.

 

But ofc, we're all entitled to our own feelings

[Ziser]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

FTFY

Also, correlation =/= causation.

I could edit your quote to say "Youre right but i dont like it so i shall shoot it down with another set of words"

Dont literally edit other players quotes to say something they didnt say, use exact quotes and explain why what i said means "What you say is wrong, and what i say is right". Nowhere in my post did i literally refer to this. This is the warframe forums, not 4chan, lets get it right next time =D

However i have no source or actuall statistics that proves my point so i can see what you mean. This is from my personel experience among many other veterans who played the game for years who seen the same over and over and took clear notice to it.

Would love if DE could bring forth real statistics on the matter of what i mentioned in my previous post and i stand strong to my statment and belives that i am in fact right on this one chief.

This however would spring a official backing to "MR matters" wich could be used for the less friendly players to label lower MRs are "useless" players and no one in their right mind wants that.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ziser
Typos, Correction

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

their* 

and what are you on about?  The FREE game  where no progress is gated behind a paywall?  That's GREED to you?

Newsflash, DE is a COMPANY with EMPLOYEES and BILLS to pay.  It's not GREEDY for a business to MAKE MONEY.

And DE certainly does nothing to "bleed us dry". 

They ain't greedy.  They literally give you everything at no charge...

It's like if a pizzeria  offered you free meals, so long as you put the toppings on yourself.  And you turn around and exclaim: "Greedy pigs! How dare you make me work for it, too!"

Friggin' hell, the entitlement around here.

Bad example...  its as if a pizzeria free meals but the only toppings are already spoiled pepperoni slices or disgusting cheese that only 5% of the buyers like 

The store also has a donation option that the other 95% of buyers graciously used a lot. 

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Ziser said:

I cant ask you to read previously post on this thread as it has reached quite a lot up to now. We gone through this multiply times and while your statment has truth to it it is also false.

The majority of higher mr players are experienced and have more knowledge by the lower mr player spectrum. The number lower mr players that have less experience than higher mr players VERY FAR OUTNUMBERS THAT OF HIGH MR PLAYERS.

You are much more likely to find a high mr player more experienced and knowledgable of the game hence why he said that taking a mr20+ player will have a much higher chance of him knowing what to do without having to teach him. If you to to recruit chat and want players for a efficient farm or mision progress youre not there to teach players, you want already experienced players. Out of that view mr does matter.

Its important to also adress that players have diffrent rates of how well they can learn new things, a MR 14 player can take in the info you teach them and use it quick and good while a mr 24 player is slower to take in and use that info and vice versa. A player can rush mr thus making them quite inexperienced in reality which leads to the argument that mr dosnt matter however its also important to understand that this is present in both groups and theres a WHOLE LOT MORE OF THESE PLAYERS IN THE LOWER MR SPECTRUM ASWELL.

In defence to what Chuckles said in his post that you quoted, MR DOES MATTER.

If you truly want to se a players skill and ecxperience level then you will have to play multiply missions with them for some time but thats not really efficient for quick recruiting in the chat now is it?

Anything beyond MR16 is really just a silly requirement that brings absolutley nothing to the group. An MR20+ will have nothing concrete compared to an MR16 that makes them more optimal for a group. After 16 it comes down to hours and only that. An MR16 with 500 hours has more experience than an MR20+ with 500 hours, because he has spent less time leveling pointless things.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Anything beyond MR16 is really just a silly requirement that brings absolutley nothing to the group. An MR20+ will have nothing concrete compared to an MR16 that makes them more optimal for a group. After 16 it comes down to hours and only that. An MR16 with 500 hours has more experience than an MR20+ with 500 hours, because he has spent less time leveling pointless things.

You're responding to someone who has convinced themselves that MR means experience.

The majority of the stuff we do doesn't confer mastery points. We get no points for continuing to use equipment beyond the instant it hits level 30, and because of how affinity works we don't even need to use it once to get it to level 30. With one notable exception, we get no points for adding forma to a weapon. We get no points for repeating content and becoming more efficient. We get no points for doing missions solo instead of being carried. We get no points for knowing the lore, or understanding how to mod properly (see numerous multiyear veterans complaining about their weapons not damaging the wolf then posting stats for their "very good" weapons that show that they clearly don't understand what is the problem). We don't get points for ranking up the various syndicates or for doing endgame content. 

I've already explained that there's no significant benefit to continuing to rank up after 16, especially for someone who is pretty casual and doesn't max out all of their daily caps. I have already shown how a person can remain on 16 while continuing to accumulate mastery points. 

But some players seem to have tied MR to some aspect of their worth as gamers. So maybe they can't accept that it is a worthless metric, that the only thing that it actually measures is "how many of the MR tests have you done", because that would invalidate a part of their perception of how good they are as players?

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You're responding to someone who has convinced themselves that MR means experience.

The majority of the stuff we do doesn't confer mastery points. We get no points for continuing to use equipment beyond the instant it hits level 30, and because of how affinity works we don't even need to use it once to get it to level 30. With one notable exception, we get no points for adding forma to a weapon. We get no points for repeating content and becoming more efficient. We get no points for doing missions solo instead of being carried. We get no points for knowing the lore, or understanding how to mod properly (see numerous multiyear veterans complaining about their weapons not damaging the wolf then posting stats for their "very good" weapons that show that they clearly don't understand what is the problem). We don't get points for ranking up the various syndicates or for doing endgame content. 

I've already explained that there's no significant benefit to continuing to rank up after 16, especially for someone who is pretty casual and doesn't max out all of their daily caps. I have already shown how a person can remain on 16 while continuing to accumulate mastery points. 

But some players seem to have tied MR to some aspect of their worth as gamers. So maybe they can't accept that it is a worthless metric, that the only thing that it actually measures is "how many of the MR tests have you done", because that would invalidate a part of their perception of how good they are as players?

This is literally reposting Ziser and myself have already gone into detail why what we say is true not even 3 pages back

And as of now not even 1 person has given any logic disproval 

Unless the mods deleted the posts again because criticism isn't really allowed

[Ziser]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Anything beyond MR16 is really just a silly requirement that brings absolutley nothing to the group. An MR20+ will have nothing concrete compared to an MR16 that makes them more optimal for a group. After 16 it comes down to hours and only that. An MR16 with 500 hours has more experience than an MR20+ with 500 hours, because he has spent less time leveling pointless things.

Im sorry it have to come to me saying this but please read, then read again what chuckles and i said it last posts and set aside your opinion of the mr matter for a couple minutes. I already understand where youre coming with but you have yet to consider what has been discussed and somewhat ignored what has been said.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

An MR16 with 500 hours has more experience than an MR20+ with 500 hours, because he has spent less time leveling pointless things.

???

6 hours ago, Ziser said:

Its important to also adress that players have diffrent rates of how well they can learn new things, a MR 14 player can take in the info you teach them and use it quick and good while a mr 24 player is slower to take in and use that info and vice versa.

Since it does not seam like you understood what i meant il break it down in more detail. A mr 14 ~ 16 player can spent 500 hours lvling gear in maps unefficient for gaining exp to gear but play same inefficient maps and/or play normal missions to gain exp to gear without learning anything or the opposite. On the other end an mr 20 ~ 24 can have 500 hours lvling gear in the exp efficient maps and being carried without learning anything or the opposite. Both type of players can also have an additional 500 hours of time in the game outside of missions learning things from players in chat, clan members, friends, information searching on the web etc. Both types of players can have spent 450 of those non-mission hours only caring about fashionframe or spent those hours actually reading up on stuff and learn mechanics or what else that would make them a experienced/skilled player. These are exmples in a wider field.

The diffrence here is:

6 hours ago, Ziser said:

A player can rush mr thus making them quite inexperienced in reality which leads to the argument that mr dosnt matter however its also important to understand that this is present in both groups and theres a WHOLE LOT MORE OF THESE PLAYERS IN THE LOWER MR SPECTRUM ASWELL.

The amount of lower mr players are far outnumbering that of high mr players, staying on topic of Chuckles post, mr still matter.

I can go down adding more examples of above and explain further but i really wish for people to think for themself aswell, a thinking person is a healthy and open minded person after all.

You see this on a lot smaller level then for example i do, you dont count with the smaller variables between players or the many diffrent types of players that warframe has. I can safely say that i seen, interacted and played with a lot of the types of players present in this game during the the years.

Do take a look on the discussion outside opinions and with logic and common sense. I liked what you said about adding a lvl 100 starting level slider would devide the community between experienced/vets and new players more, it made sense and had me look at my own argument. 

[Ziser]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You're responding to someone who has convinced themselves that MR means experience.

You convinced yourself that mr does not matter just as much, theres no denying that.

Please read what Chuckles posted and read the further arguments made by him and me outside of opinions.

It is clear you either havent read them or you forgot them and did a oopsie.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

15 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

This is literally reposting Ziser and myself have already gone into detail why what we say is true not even 3 pages back

And as of now not even 1 person has given any logic disproval 

Unless the mods deleted the posts again because criticism isn't really allowed

And again, what the two of you contended was wrong three pages back and remain wrong. The post you just quoted shows why MR is a meaningless metric. 

Let's be honest here for a minute shall we? If you have access to substantial plat reserves, and an active clan, it becomes trivial to load a brand new account with level 0 gear and power level all of it passively by leeching, with items not being used by that player at all. We can show them how to cheese the vast majority of the tests and provide them with the mods and specific builds to do so. 

The instant we acknowledge that that's possible, we must accept that MR is meaningless. We use it to guess if a person is likely to know what end of the weapons to point toward the enemies, but it isn't an indication that the weapons are carrying good builds, or that the person realises what elemental combos will work best for the mission. 

Again, the wolf, who is a current example of an enemy with enough health to make using the correct damage types important to people who face him, is showing exactly how much hubris there is, with multi-year vets with high MR failing to grasp why their builds are poor choices. The fact that I've seen repeated examples of that over the past few weeks, shows me that MR is a totally worthless metric, especially since it's one of the things that they point to, in order to convince people that they obviously know what they're doing. Except that they obviously don't. 

[Ziser]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And again, what the two of you contended was wrong three pages back and remain wrong. The post you just quoted shows why MR is a meaningless metric. 

Let's be honest here for a minute shall we? If you have access to substantial plat reserves, and an active clan, it becomes trivial to load a brand new account with level 0 gear and power level all of it passively by leeching, with items not being used by that player at all. We can show them how to cheese the vast majority of the tests and provide them with the mods and specific builds to do so. 

The instant we acknowledge that that's possible, we must accept that MR is meaningless. We use it to guess if a person is likely to know what end of the weapons to point toward the enemies, but it isn't an indication that the weapons are carrying good builds, or that the person realises what elemental combos will work best for the mission. 

Again, the wolf, who is a current example of an enemy with enough health to make using the correct damage types important to people who face him, is showing exactly how much hubris there is, with multi-year vets with high MR failing to grasp why their builds are poor choices. The fact that I've seen repeated examples of that over the past few weeks, shows me that MR is a totally worthless metric, especially since it's one of the things that they point to, in order to convince people that they obviously know what they're doing. Except that they obviously don't. 

Asuming all players are like that now are we? Sadly they are a plauging majority of the game yes. Again you have not read and considered why we are saying that mr matters and why, please do read. I'll count this an another oopsie.

The Wolf is a good idea executed poorly, heres a text of a post i made earlier:

"Theres multiply ways to add challanging content, example as simple as introducing enemies with damage reduction and gating values that have modified resistance to lets say stuns and CCs, example Embers 2 which stuns enemies would be a stagger on said enemy instead and gives the enemy a short immunity to getting staggared again for a short time. Add massivly punishing attacks to the enemy that can be interupted with CCs where them being in a staggered, knockdowned or other forms of CCd state have a lot less damage reduction, the attacks could have interesting patterns that could allow players who experienced them find ways to dodge them instead while focusing on dealing damage, lets say the enemy takes more damage while casting these attacks. It adds fun and interesting enemies that can pose a challange to players and make CC frames relevant too."

The Wolf is almost that but without the important parts, I can agree i seen more higher mr players frustated with the wolf because it forces them out of their comfort zones and thats a good thing but wolf himself isnt good enough, he is a opener for further improvment though.

I hate to repeat myself but here goes.

Read reacent posts made by Chuckles and me and consider them logicly outside your own opinions.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ziser

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

21 minutes ago, Ziser said:

You convinced yourself that mr does not matter just as much, theres no denying that.

Please read what Chuckles posted and read the further arguments made by him and me outside of opinions.

It is clear you either havent read them or you forgot them and did a oopsie.

Like most of the people taking part in this thread, I have read and have understood.  Like many of the people taking part in this thread I don't agree with you. That's a thing that happens. 

You even admit that people can have high MR and not know as much as a person of lower MR. That means that you know that MR does NOT equate to actual experience. Your contention is that higher MR players are less likely to be as incompetent as lower MR players, but even that acknowledges that it is not an absolute relationship. This is what the people you're trying to argue with have contended all along. 

But maybe you should go back and read what everyone has said, and avoid making any more oopsies? 

[Anduvriel]

On the topic:

I watched the devstream and to be completely honest i think you missed few parts. 

1. Starting lvl was 35 corpus, but after 1 defense rotation they were already 40-45, so the gain here is 5-10lvls per target. 

2. This is supposed to work with the ability to defend 4 targets at once which should mean 20-40 levels per 1 rotation that lasts around 5 minutes. If i got it right it should mean that after 20 minutes you will deal with 35+80-160 =115-195lvl of corpus. Which is pretty good scaling in this game. 

3. There are new enemies and the faction is corpus which have the nullifiers and you need to defend 4 targets at once. Target is kinda squishy from what i saw. On top of that there will be debuffs.. 4 at once possibly. Targets are in different parts of the map probably something like interception so some split play might be required. 

It might be more difficult than it looks at first glance. Ofc i dont really see a protection against 4 limbos, but thats the cheese master.

On top of it all.. the node is soloable and newbies can do some of it.

If the scaling is around the numbers i wrote it might be really fun place for endurance runners/challenge seekers.. And doable for newbies for a full rotation or two without much problems. Kinda.. not bad. Dont you think? 

 

[SneakyErvin]

28 minutes ago, Ziser said:

You convinced yourself that mr does not matter just as much, theres no denying that.

Please read what Chuckles posted and read the further arguments made by him and me outside of opinions.

It is clear you either havent read them or you forgot them and did a oopsie.

It is nothing but hypothetical what the two of you say. Nothing but anecdotal thoughts really. In reality, when you set aside all the what-if ideas, MR has no actual impact whatsoever beyond MR16 (and that is if you need MR16 for a specific riven that you've obtained). MR15 is the soft cap, because at that point you've gotten everything you cannot circumvent in another way, as opposed to riven which you can trade for to skip certain MR requirements.

If MR actually tracked other things besides leveling weapons/frames/pets in the most trivial content in the game, then yes MR would matter. But it doesnt. MR is nothing but a prestige system showing that you've leveld this much crap.

What you said earlier regarding leveling things also isnt accurate. You may possibly get a basic feel for it, how it handles, the spread, recoil etc. But when it comes to how it actually performs, no you wont get that in 30 levels that are over in 10 waves of defense. That is a whole whoopin' 8 minutes of use on avarage. Oh my the experience you get with a weapon in that time. It isnt until after you decide to invest in it and try it out properly that you'll really get the feel for it, when it is properly modded and cat'd. Time that is refelcted to the sum of zero by the MR system.

If I were to go by your deffinition there are several weapons I use that I would have never bothered investing in, because they felt like S#&$ when leveling them for those 8-10 minutes. However when I started reading up on them and decided to forma and cat them they changed a great deal. None of that is taken into account when you look at my MR of 21.