"This is high level, we are starting at 35" ....ehm, what? :D

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, Ziser said:

Asuming all players are like that now are we? Sadly they are a plauging majority of the game yes. Again you have not read and considered why we are saying that mr matters and why, please do read. I'll count this an another oopsie.

The Wolf is a good idea executed poorly, heres a text of a post i made earlier:

"Theres multiply ways to add challanging content, example as simple as introducing enemies with damage reduction and gating values that have modified resistance to lets say stuns and CCs, example Embers 2 which stuns enemies would be a stagger on said enemy instead and gives the enemy a short immunity to getting staggared again for a short time. Add massivly punishing attacks to the enemy that can be interupted with CCs where them being in a staggered, knockdowned or other forms of CCd state have a lot less damage reduction, the attacks could have interesting patterns that could allow players who experienced them find ways to dodge them instead while focusing on dealing damage, lets say the enemy takes more damage while casting these attacks. It adds fun and interesting enemies that can pose a challange to players and make CC frames relevant too."

The Wolf is almost that but without the important parts, I can agree i seen more higher mr players frustated with the wolf because it forces them out of their comfort zones and thats a good thing but wolf himself isnt good enough, he is a opener for further improvment though.

I hate to repeat myself but here goes.

Read reacent posts made by Chuckles and me and consider them logicly outside your own opinions.

I have not assumed that. Perhaps you are experiencing a language barrier that is keeping you from understanding what has actually been said. I advise reading what has actually been said, instead of creating strawmen. 

Whether you like the wolf, what I said stands true.

1) He is an enemy with specific weaknesses and a high enough number of hit points to make capitalizing on those weaknesses important.

2) A number of high MR players with years of play time, were unable to grasp why they were experiencing difficulties, and showed the inability to understand why they were having difficulty. 

This shows that high MR does not mean that they actually know what they're doing and why. 

 

Whether or not everyone is like that isn't what's being contended. Just like nobody has contended that all lower MR players will outclass all higher MR players. What matters is that their existence shows that MR is meaningless, and until you see them playing, it's at best just a rough guide, and nothing else. 

Let's see if you get it this time. 

[IntheCoconut]

55 minutes ago, Anduvriel said:

On the topic:

I watched the devstream and to be completely honest i think you missed few parts. 

1. Starting lvl was 35 corpus, but after 1 defense rotation they were already 40-45, so the gain here is 5-10lvls per target. 

2. This is supposed to work with the ability to defend 4 targets at once which should mean 20-40 levels per 1 rotation that lasts around 5 minutes. If i got it right it should mean that after 20 minutes you will deal with 35+80-160 =115-195lvl of corpus. Which is pretty good scaling in this game. 

3. There are new enemies and the faction is corpus which have the nullifiers and you need to defend 4 targets at once. Target is kinda squishy from what i saw. On top of that there will be debuffs.. 4 at once possibly. Targets are in different parts of the map probably something like interception so some split play might be required. 

It might be more difficult than it looks at first glance. Ofc i dont really see a protection against 4 limbos, but thats the cheese master.

On top of it all.. the node is soloable and newbies can do some of it.

If the scaling is around the numbers i wrote it might be really fun place for endurance runners/challenge seekers.. And doable for newbies for a full rotation or two without much problems. Kinda.. not bad. Dont you think? 

 

What you said is important. There are a lot of other aspects to this new game mode that will contribute to the overall difficulty. There are still a lot of unknowns as you mentioned, such as how scaling will work and how much of a threat the new sentient-corpus hybrids will pose (Are we calling them Amalgams?). Yes, it starts off at level 35 but it's kind of taking it out of context when you ignore all the other factors.

I'm actually really intrigued by this mission and can't wait to try it out. I have mixed feelings about the RNG modifiers. On one hand I'm stupidly excited for the debuffs but I also have my concerns on how well it will work in a game like Warframe. Rebecca got the "damage reduction" modifier and after that it kind of looked less fun to me because they effectively just became bullet sponges. So some debuffs will be more fun and challenging to encounter, and others might just feel like a killjoy.

Edited May 8, 2019 by IntheCoconut

[SneakyErvin]

41 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

MR effect the amount of standing you get each day from they're syndicate grind that we keep getting more and more of it those days, so yes its matter beyond  MR 16.

and it also matter because the chances if you meeting a legit high MR veteran/experienced is higher than meeting a master jedi veteran twink smurf rare as unicorn low MR, especially when you're doing an Eidolon hunt or a raid (removed right now) or any other activity that require the player to have most of the mods and frames and good knowledge on them.

Beyond MR16 or well 15 is optional, simple player preferance. Standing isnt a must to cap, it is a matter of a few days extra grind whenever a faction is released. I didnt grind to 20 for the standing cap increase, I did it for the extra loadout slots. We also arent talking smurfs here, I'm talking about the difference between MR15 and up, which there is none that impacts gameplay in groups.

[SneakyErvin]

26 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

standing capping is a must unless you want to player to play on DE stringers of jerking you off for months for a week at best content, 25k standing is not the same as 16k and it matter, a lot, especially when you factor in that you can buy sell-able stuff with it just like the failtuna kitguns arcanes that was selling for hundreds of plats, theres no shred of player preference in that, nobody prefer to be walled with time gates on top of wall gate just to get a mediocre stuff in return.

also theres a big big impact on the deference between mr15 and mr 25, let me explain:

first of all high mr indicate that the player have leveled and experienced a lot of weapons and frames and that he most likely still have them, in a group play like raid and eidolons that allow them to be flexible to they're team, they can change to any frame you want them to, they have a lot of guns for some niche metas, and they atleast know some basics stuff about the game in most cases.

in the other hand low level mr have the chance to be a master jedi veteran but he will still fells short if you want him to change to different frames because he most likely dont have them.

yes i understands that theres high mr players who level stuff and sell them and use hydron/draco/eso for that but the chances of that is so slime plus you will get better experience with high mr players gameplay wise anyway.

None of that is true. Standing cap is a player preference, what you are expressing is simply an opinion. Buying/selling has nothing to do with experience of the game in a group setting, that is a whole different subject alltogether and again is based on personal preference.

And no, there is no difference between 15 and 25 aside from the riven level cap at 16. The MR 16 has just the same access to those exact same weapons, it simply comes down to making the right choices and ignoring the MR-fodders. Simple as that. It doesnt matter if the MR25 have "experienced" the utter trash weapons, it doesnt make him perform better, it doesnt make him know an encounter better etc. You aswell as the other two are basing your stuff on "what if?" scenarios and assumptions.

[Anduvriel]

41 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

(Are we calling them Amalgams?). [..] 

I'm actually really intrigued by this mission and can't wait to try it out. I have mixed feelings about the RNG modifiers. On one hand I'm stupidly excited for the debuffs but I also have my concerns on how well it will work in a game like Warframe. Rebecca got the "damage reduction" modifier and after that it kind of looked less fun to me because they effectively just became bullet sponges. So some debuffs will be more fun and challenging to encounter, and others might just feel like a killjoy.

I think you got the name right. An amalgam of sentient and corpus.

I think that those debuffs might actually make straight hard cc important again and create fun diverse parties. Imagine damage reduction debuff that scales with time/rotation. If you get that in 1st rota you shrug it off its just 33%, few milions of your dps still remain, but than at 10 rota it gives 99% damage reduction and you cant kill anything fast for that particular 5 minutes. Some might say its cheap and unfun.. but

That node can be used than for some endgame as well. 

Can you survive 5 minutes with 250+ lvl enemies without the ability to kill them and protect 4 targets as well? 

Can you protect those targets for 5 minutes if your cc abilities have 99% reduced duration? Will you go for all 4 or make 3 than 1..?  

I honestly would make them random for first 4 rotas (20minutes), but later each rota could have a staple crazy debuff one of the like i mentioned. Than add a weekly trophy for highest rota reached and a sekhara for top 10 as a reward.. Change debuffs each week.. Add new ones.. Add a "good enough" participation reward at some not too far away rotation for those out of top 10, but still putting real effort to it.

Someone might say its a cheap way to create difficulty by taking part of our kit away, but if we go as a party and its just 5 minutes of 1 debuff it might make a different meta each week with different frames, weapons, arcanes... Hardcores/Vets/endurance runners you name it could have fun breaking their heads on how to defeat certain debuffs, compose the best possible setup each week. Just a thought. 

 

 

[Ziser]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Like most of the people taking part in this thread, I have read and have understood.  Like many of the people taking part in this thread I don't agree with you. That's a thing that happens. 

You even admit that people can have high MR and not know as much as a person of lower MR. That means that you know that MR does NOT equate to actual experience. Your contention is that higher MR players are less likely to be as incompetent as lower MR players, but even that acknowledges that it is not an absolute relationship. This is what the people you're trying to argue with have contended all along. 

But maybe you should go back and read what everyone has said, and avoid making any more oopsies? 

So all in all MR does not matter for actuall experience.

16 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

MR doesnt matter. Actual time spent playing matters. 

You can rush MR and know squat about the game.

So MR does not matter, only playtime.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

2) A number of high MR players with years of play time, were unable to grasp why they were experiencing difficulties, and showed the inability to understand why they were having difficulty. 

Wanna run the numbers on how many more lower MRs where experiencing this exact thing?

^That was an actual oopsie, apologise for that.

Now for the actual point i was refering my MR arguments too.

On 2019-05-06 at 5:16 PM, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Now for the actual point,  I'd rather take my chance with MR20+ because I'll have a 92% chance that the person will already know what to do perfectly without me even checking his profile.

^This

Lets play a game instead.

Say youre a vet, lots of invested time in this game, you like completing things in games too so obviously youre mr27 elitelord but with little to no experience right? Joke aside, you want to farm nano spores, orokin cells, eidolons, profit takers, exploiter orbs, sentients for broken war parts, arbis, the list goes on. Now you are not in any mood for shananigans, just pure concentrated efficient farming at a high level. You start posting calls in recruit chat because thats where you go if not friends/clanmates, you want an as fast as possible start of mission without any extra steps.

Answer me honestly, what are the first things you look at to determine their experience and general knowledge of the game?

The first 3 things.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ziser
Typo, oopsie

[SneakyErvin]

13 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

its not my personal preference to be time walled from the metas gears that is hiding behind syndicate daily standing with my mr 16 that only net me 17k if i play every day, and its not player preference if kitguns arcanes are selling for mad plat when i can only get a single one every day with my peasant 17k standing, its not my preference when theres nothing else to do in this freaking game and i wonder how in the hell that someone who call himself a veteran have only MR of 16 or less when this game is built around collecting weapons and mods and frames yet he stick with handful of them with limit his ability to find groups when they're looking for specific gears that he didnt bother to get or level or forma.

if you're a master jedi low mr that means 2 things, you're a lazy bag, or you're a smurf and even then you will need gears to use that master jedi knowledge to full effect with mean you will be high mr player you like it or not, unless you have all the exp but you refuse to take the MR testes in with case i have no comment on how stupid that is.

lets face it, high MR players have higher chances of begin a veteran who know they're sht or alteast have the gear for specific group grind or missions compared to the rare as unicorn low mr smurfs or lazy bags who stick with boltor or tonkor ever since they played this game, i will take high mr player over low mr player any day of the weak when i factor all of what i provided above and for the million time, MR matter, a lot.

As I said it is personal preference what standing cap is enough for you. Also no one is limiting themselves when avoiding the MR fodder gear.

No idea what you are trying to say in paragraph two even.

No they dont, those are pure assumptions. MR doesnt matter squat.

Let me ask you, who has the most possible end-game experience. An MR16 or an MR25 that both have 1000h played and the exact same amount of time spent per level between 1-16? Logic would tell anyone with common sense that it is the MR16, because he has spent far more hours in end-game after reaching MR16 while the MR25 has spent time grinding trivial crap for 9 more MR levels.

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

35 minutes ago, Ziser said:

On 2019-05-06 at 5:16 PM, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Now for the actual point,  I'd rather take my chance with MR20+ because I'll have a 92% chance that the person will already know what to do perfectly without me even checking his profile.

^This

Lets play a game instead.

Say youre a vet, lots of invested time in this game, you like completing things in games too so obviously youre mr27 elitelord but with little to no experience right? Joke aside, you want to farm nano spores, orokin cells, eidolons, profit takers, exploiter orbs, sentients for broken war parts, arbis, the list goes on. Now you are not in any mood for shananigans, just pure concentrated efficient farming at a high level. You start posting calls in recruit chat because thats where you go if not friends/clanmates, you want an as fast as possible start of mission without any extra steps.

Answer me honestly, what are the first things you look at to determine their experience and general knowledge of the game?

The first 3 things.

I've already debunked this and even gave them an answer so prepare for the obligatory ''MR doesnt really matter, no matter what you say'' so we can start this Whole fuking thing all over again for the 5th time.


I completely forgot to murder them from this point of view too.
Simply increase the Size... what do i mean?:
Since MR doesnt matter, that means an MR1 and an MR27 are exactly the same in experience, knowlege, Collected gear, etc... meaning theyre both equality and perfectly capable of doing a 5x3 eidolon hunt.

Now on the other hand if you say MR does matter then that would mean the person of lower MR in this example is not as capable as the high MR. 

God forbit the logical answer would be the right one...

Edited May 8, 2019 by Hi_Im_Chuckles

[SneakyErvin]

21 minutes ago, Ziser said:

Answer me honestly, what are the first things you look at to determine their experience and general knowledge of the game?

The first 3 things.

Depends on the mission. The only two placed I'd even look at MR would be eidolon and PT, MR10+ and 5+ in order to have access to the weapons needed to beat them.

For the rest it just comes down to frames and weapons, so MR isnt really an issue.

 

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Depends on the mission. The only two placed I'd even look at MR would be eidolon and PT, MR10+ and 5+ in order to have access to the weapons needed to beat them.

For the rest it just comes down to frames and weapons, so MR isnt really an issue.

 

Would you be so kind as to go public and do atleast a 2x3 with 3 players of MR 5-11, and record a video of it within the next week.
Its not to prove me wrong as much as it is so that you can experience first hand how wrong you are instead of regurgitating the same baseless accusation that MR means nothing. 

ty ❤️ 

You also avoided the question entirely
...again

Youve yet to state the first 3 things that are looked at
the question is in general meaning it is for:
-Doing proffit taker in under 3 minutes
-Doing atleast a 3x3 Capture
-Doing a multi hour survival

If youre pride wont allow it you can state the first 3 things for each instead of for all in general.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Hi_Im_Chuckles
Whoopsy forgot some things <3

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

they're because the devs have nothing set in stone, garbo weapons have the chance to turn into god mod overnight and many regret selling they're MR fodder and the people who avoided it will have to build that sucker and forma it with is a lot of work for those lazy bags.

and you keep repeating this player preference a lot man you clearly have no idea what it mean in this context, i explained to you that nobody prefer a freaking time gate that is walled by how high your MR is, nobody, the the already high 27 players.

i was trying to say that if you're a low mr player who is veteran (with mean MR = nothing by that logic) means 2 things : you're lazy to farm and build weapons, or you're a smurf and even then you will need gears to use that master jedi knowledge to full effect with mean you will be high mr player you like it or not, unless you have all the exp but you refuse to take the MR testes in with case i have no comment on how stupid that is. 

i proved to you that it matter more than a squat, it limit how much standing you get with in return limit your ability to farm plat and get meta and necessary gear that are hided behind that syndicate grind wall, it also indicate that you invested your time on getting those weapons and frames even if you leveled them in hydron, and many people keep them instead of selling them with make them very flexible in groups who needs a specific gears.

this is so laughable holy crap ! what is this logic man ? what are you smoking lol.

did it ever comes to your brilliant mind that both might have end game gears ? did you not think that the High MR player will use that end game gear to grind that fluff you loathe ? and did it ever come to your mind that you can buy a weapon or a frame outright if you're an old player who horded ton of plats with is likely the case with High MR players ? so no it does not work like that, this is not a race, every weapon and a gun in this game is modded the same, they all use the same mods, its all about getting  the damn thing, also high mr who have almost all the weapons and the frames have better chance of finding his own meta in simulacrum than the low mr who spent his life with a boltor or a tonkor.

Apparently you have reading comprehension and stress issues.

No, even if not set in stone they dont miss out, because the weapons arent gone because they didnt decide to build and level them there and then.

It is player preference since we all have different opinions. Otherwise I obviously wouldnt say the cap doesnt matter to me. Tada! Personal preference of what is OK.

That isnt about lazyness, that is about prefering to do more interesting things in the game than leveling weapons. Things that give me actual gamer experience instead of mastery experience.

Again each player decides what standing cap is enough for them. This also comes down to how much time you can spend per day. Wasted mastery if you arent going to max it everyday because you have other things to do while in-game. This also leads to wasted time while grindign that mastery, time that could be spent on more productive things to actually advance your account.

You apparently didnt get my question since you added extra variables. It was quite a simple questions.

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Would you be so kind as to go public and do atleast a 2x3 with 3 players of MR 5-11, and record a video of it within the next week.
Its not to prove me wrong as much as it is so that you can experience first hand how wrong you are instead of regurgitating the same baseless accusation that MR means nothing. 

ty ❤️ 

That wouldnt prove anything because it wouldnt be enough of a sample size to prove either of us wrong. It would just have been one failed or successful attempt out of one. Just as I could go with tripplet of MR20 and succeed or fail. I also never said I'd go to eidolons with MR 5 players, I said MR10+, mostly to indicate their access to specific weapons.

What you guys fail to realize is that I've said anything beyond MR15 is pointless. Up to 15 there is some credibility to wanting a specific MR in the group because those first 15 levels unlock new needed items. After 15 nothing of value unlocks (not that much of what you get after 12 is worthwile either for "harder" content".

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

42 minutes ago, Ziser said:

So all in all MR does not matter for actuall experience.

So MR does not matter, only playtime.

Wanna run the numbers on how many more lower MRs where experiencing this exact thing?

^That was an actual oopsie, apologise for that.

Now for the actual point i was refering my MR arguments too.

^This

Lets play a game instead.

Say youre a vet, lots of invested time in this game, you like completing things in games too so obviously youre mr27 elitelord but with little to no experience right? Joke aside, you want to farm nano spores, orokin cells, eidolons, profit takers, exploiter orbs, sentients for broken war parts, arbis, the list goes on. Now you are not in any mood for shananigans, just pure concentrated efficient farming at a high level. You start posting calls in recruit chat because thats where you go if not friends/clanmates, you want an as fast as possible start of mission without any extra steps.

I counter your thought experiment with an actual case:

I have played for over a year. I am MR16. I probably have enough mastery points to be MR 20+. I don't see much point in ranking up, as I don't usually max out all of my standings in a day, and I am not otherwise locked out of any content by my current MR. 

Are you contending that if I spend the rest of the week only doing MR tests that I would be significantly more experienced than I am right now because my MR would have gone up by 4 points? It's obvious that I would not be so there's no reason to accept that MR has any meaning other than "this person has done several more tests than that one". 

54 minutes ago, Ziser said:

Answer me honestly, what are the first things you look at to determine their experience and general knowledge of the game?

The first 3 things.

I'll answer for the Eidolon hunts. First I check choice of frames, then complete loadouts, then I may revert to MR until I get a chance to see their gameplay.

If the frame fits one of the common metas, it's a good start. Next the loadouts because sniper rifles usually suggests an understanding of what is needed, a shotgun, not so much. If th is not whole loadout is meta conforming, then I know that person is likely to be pulling their weight. 

If none of that stuff is where I expect, odds are that MR will not matter at all, and with hundreds of hunts, I can guarantee that I've seen a large number of higher MR players (relative to me) who don't know wtf they're doing in a Terry hunt, at all. 

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

What you guys fail to realize is that I've said anything beyond MR15 is pointless. Up to 15 there is some credibility to wanting a specific MR in the group because those first 15 levels unlock new needed items. After 15 nothing of value unlocks (not that much of what you get after 12 is worthwile either for "harder" content".

That's pretty much why I haven't bothered, despite still making and trying out new weapons. I guess I'm a poster boy for your point. 

[Ziser]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Depends on the mission. The only two placed I'd even look at MR would be eidolon and PT, MR10+ and 5+ in order to have access to the weapons needed to beat them.

For the rest it just comes down to frames and weapons, so MR isnt really an issue.

 

*EATING MY #*!%ING KEYBOARD*

1 hour ago, Ziser said:

Say youre a vet, lots of invested time in this game, you like completing things in games too so obviously youre mr27 elitelord but with little to no experience right? Joke aside, you want to farm nano spores, orokin cells, eidolons, profit takers, exploiter orbs, sentients for broken war parts, arbis, the list goes on. Now you are not in any mood for shananigans, just pure concentrated efficient farming at a high level. You start posting calls in recruit chat because thats where you go if not friends/clanmates, you want an as fast as possible start of mission without any extra steps.

Answer me honestly, what are the first things you look at to determine their experience and general knowledge of the game?

You completely ignored this part, you cant put yourself in others views and instantly go back to your own comfort zone. Im dropping this since youre literally ignorant or too based on your own opinions. Now im going to throw words i know you wont like around and at this point i will have a hard time taking anything you say serious. youre a casual player so im not even sure why youre argumenting over this when you clearly do not care over the point of just wanting others to correct themself to your opinion without taking all considerations into mind. I cant take you serious in this particular part of the discussion anymore.

I hope you have a good day man and that you dont fall too far when you relize what we actually try to explain here.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ziser
Typomania

[Ziser]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I'll answer for the Eidolon hunts. First I check choice of frames, then complete loadouts, then I may revert to MR until I get a chance to see their gameplay.

 

34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

then I may revert to MR until I get a chance to see their gameplay.

 

34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

revert to MR

You clearly shown that MR does in fact matter, no taking it back. Gratz on getting the 3 first things to look at right.

34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I counter your thought experiment with an actual case:

I have played for over a year. I am MR16. I probably have enough mastery points to be MR 20+. I don't see much point in ranking up, as I don't usually max out all of my standings in a day, and I am not otherwise locked out of any content by my current MR. 

Are you contending that if I spend the rest of the week only doing MR tests that I would be significantly more experienced than I am right now because my MR would have gone up by 4 points? It's obvious that I would not be so there's no reason to accept that MR has any meaning other than "this person has done several more tests than that one". 

Obviously youre not one of those players, we already stated that it does not apply to all players, gratz i guess?

34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I counter your thought experiment with an actual case:

I have played for over a year. I am MR16. I probably have enough mastery points to be MR 20+. I don't see much point in ranking up, as I don't usually max out all of my standings in a day, and I am not otherwise locked out of any content by my current MR. 

Are you contending that if I spend the rest of the week only doing MR tests that I would be significantly more experienced than I am right now because my MR would have gone up by 4 points? It's obvious that I would not be so there's no reason to accept that MR has any meaning other than "this person has done several more tests than that one".

I played since 2013, came back and went away again, can say i played for 6 years. Up untill last year a little time before Plains update i was at MR18ish and decided to get max available MR at the time, think it was MR25. Can in a sense say im just like you, i literally just didnt care about raising MR. This is also besides the point because you and i are 2 players among millions so it proves near nothing.

1 hour ago, Ziser said:

Say youre a vet, lots of invested time in this game, you like completing things in games too so obviously youre mr27 elitelord but with little to no experience right? Joke aside, you want to farm nano spores, orokin cells, eidolons, profit takers, exploiter orbs, sentients for broken war parts, arbis, the list goes on. Now you are not in any mood for shananigans, just pure concentrated efficient farming at a high level. You start posting calls in recruit chat because thats where you go if not friends/clanmates, you want an as fast as possible start of mission without any extra steps.

You dont have time to rank players on gameplay at this point, recruiting is a hit and miss system, you either get complete jackasses or players that do what they are supposed to. As you said, you look at MR since its a clear indication they atleast have the gear, you look at their loadout when they join, if they already in requested gear then thats a goodwill indication that they are in fact experienced, you look if they make additional remarks in chat for build tweaking and/or if they think themself play other roles to reduce time finding specific players for the roles. Its still a hit and miss because that MR26 who joined with the right loadout but didnt say much could in fact never have done a Plauge Star run in his entire life even though you stated you want experienced players but the chances that he has done the mission and the farm before and is experienced is indeed a lot higher when hes a higher MR.

I have 200+ Hydro caps, i claim that me and a clanmate where among the first non-omegatryhards that got to 100 hydro caps, we recruited random players most of the time for the last two spots while grinding. I can admit that i taken lower MR players too after giving them chances and sometimes it worked out and sometimes now but i do not remember more than single digit encounters with inexperienced high MR players. Pushing for 200 caps i was not as strict with high MR vs low MR since i did not go for speed anymore and i can confirm that i had a lot more trouble having to teach lower MR players the ropes. This is but one example using Eidolons which is a bit extreme but i can relate this with other grinds too.

Can  we agree MR does infact matter for the discussion at hand regardles if we like it or not?

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ziser
Typo

[Ziser]

27 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

the High MR25 have more experience than the MR16 even with same amount of time played and here is my reasoning behind my answer:

it does not take you months to level up a freaking mystery fodder, DE release weapons blueprints to the market or the clan research and all of that will not take you more than a freaking 5mn to grab and build providing the amount of 1000h you have in the game you should be swimming in resources, the only problem is if DE hided that mastery fodder behind a time gate and even then you're not missing much because you will not stop playing until you pass that time wall, no sir.

you both must be having and ''end game'' gear with that 1000h gameplay, both of you can do any high end content no problem at that point but the high mr have the edge over you because he most likely have gears that you consider fodder that the devs turned into god tier over night and you will be needing to get that sucker and level him and forma him and potato him will the high mr is having a drink and enjoying his time playing barbie and messing around with people game with limbo max range and duration stasis.

i dont need your common sense, ill debunk you with facts and numbers and logic.

and let me ask you like you asked me:

who have better chance to form groups or find groups that need specific gears for a new found meta ? the high mr who have everything or the low mr who spent his life with boltor prime ?

You make a very good point. I have also forgot to mention that its not like you just generate wepaons, you also have to farm and gather the required materials and then craft them which takes time, you dont just generate materials from thing air. Anyone who likes the game enough will actually play during that time too so higher MR players do in fact end up having more experience. Anyone who cant see or understand this is in fact a low MR player themself or somone with an even worse memory than me.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ziser

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Ziser said:

*EATING MY #*!%ING KEYBOARD*

You completely ignored this part, you cant put yourself in others views and instantly go back to your own comfort zone. Im dropping this since youre literally ignorant or too based on your own opinions. Now im going to throw words i know you wont like around and at this point i will have a hard time taking anything you say serious. youre a casual player so im not even sure why youre argumenting over this when you clearly do not care over the point of just wanting others to correct themself to your opinion without taking all considerations into mind. I cant take you serious in this particular part of the discussion anymore.

I hope you have a good day man and that you dont fall too far when you relize what we actually try to explain here.

What part did I miss? I answered exactly what you asked.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Facadedestroyer said:

it does not works like that god damn it, if you prefer low cap without providing any reasoning behind then it still your own opinion, fair enough, but that is not the case for the whole freaking community, the MR cap is called like that for a reason, if i am a low mr player and then i see all of the good sht hided behind Failtuna many syndicates and i want to get them in painlessly then i have to raise my mr, the game is designed around that, if it does not matter then why the devs keep giving us weapons and making MR testes ? why ? why even cap the standing behind how much MR you have ? 

give me one thing that you prefer doing and is totally interesting and not a mindless grind and ill believe you, oh right you dont even have to do it because i know each one of them already so here we go : barbie dress up, region chat sht posting and drama, buying a suit and becoming a wall street trader in-game, formoing the same freaking gun 100 times then brag about it in forums and thats it, keep in mind non of those things would forbid you from farming or buying a freaking blueprint from the market or the clan research then building that sucker with all of the ''interesting'' resource you kept focusing on, holy crap you people are really something else.

what the hell is that thing that advance your account man ? what a game are you playing exactly because i am pretty sure its not warframe that is known far and wide for its grind and collecting weapons and frames are big part of the experience, grinding mystery does not take you a whole freaking day, you can do it will playing, every player have a trusty second gun or primary or even melee and frame so you should be fine if you remove one of them and replace it with an unleveled one will using your gold tier weapon and gaining affinity passively from your teammates, it take just 4 waves of ESO to max your crap with a booster, why dance around it by claiming that you're not missing much by sticking with a single weapon and frame for your whole life in this game.

i answered it for you and ill do it again directly now :

the High MR25 have more experience than the MR16 even with same amount of time played and here is my reasoning behind my answer:

it does not take you months to level up a freaking mystery fodder, DE release weapons blueprints to the market or the clan research and all of that will not take you more than a freaking 5mn to grab and build providing the amount of 1000h you have in the game you should be swimming in resources, the only problem is if DE hided that mastery fodder behind a time gate and even then you're not missing much because you will not stop playing until you pass that time wall, no sir.

you both must be having and ''end game'' gear with that 1000h gameplay, both of you can do any high end content no problem at that point but the high mr have the edge over you because he most likely have gears that you consider fodder that the devs turned into god tier over night and you will be needing to get that sucker and level him and forma him and potato him will the high mr is having a drink and enjoying his time playing barbie and messing around with people game with limbo max range and duration stasis.

i dont need your common sense, ill debunk you with facts and numbers and logic.

and let me ask you like you asked me:

who have better chance to form groups or find groups that need specific gears for a new found meta ? the high mr who have everything or the low mr who spent his life with boltor prime ?

 

Things to prefer over leveling MR fodders... gee what a hard one to answer. Arbis, ESO, Eidolons, PT, Void runs, Fissures, Mining, Fishing, Arena, Index and so on. There are so many things to rather do than leveling fodders that may or may not be buffed.

And please stop acting like you are cool. Your Limbo comment makes you look like a complete flaming twat.

Also do not throw around words like facts unless you have actual concrete facts. All you spew forth are opinions.

And to answer your questions. Dont be so freakin dense and think low MR means retard i.e your beaten dead horse "boltor prime" comment. Grow the heck up.

[SneakyErvin]

54 minutes ago, Ziser said:

You make a very good point. I have also forgot to mention that its not like you just generate wepaons, you also have to farm and gather the required materials and then craft them which takes time, you dont just generate materials from thing air. Anyone who likes the game enough will actually play during that time too so higher MR players do in fact end up having more experience. Anyone who cant see or understand this is in fact a low MR player themself or somone with an even worse memory than me.

Do you have those facts at hand? Because you just flunked out 2 for 2 with your bolded comment. Stop trying to belittle people for disagreeing with you and stop throwing around words like facts when there are no actual facts for any of it.

And if you refer to people as low level at MR 16 you are sadly out of touch with the game.

edit: You (and the gang) also need to get it into your thick tin skulls that what we are talking about when we say no difference it is from MR16 and up, the ranks that provide zero gameplay beneficial bonuses (even though humpty dumpty up to is snowed in on standings). Prior to 16 it depends on the content.

Edited May 8, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Ziser said:

 

You clearly shown that MR does in fact matter, no taking it back. Gratz on getting the 3 first things to look at right.

You have difficulty understanding what you read, don't you? Do you understand what "may" means? Was there a reason why you left that word out in the end there? 

Because if I have gotten that far down the pecking order, the person is in off meta gear, and in all likelihood not particularly experienced. I end up categorizing them into the same basket as a newb who is locked out of the gear options needed for the hunt until they prove otherwise. 

Quote

Obviously youre not one of those players, we already stated that it does not apply to all players, gratz i guess?

Yes. So I'm just one real life example that counters your hypothetical. I exist so your claim is shown to be wrong, better yet:

Quote

I played since 2013, came back and went away again, can say i played for 6 years. Up untill last year a little time before Plains update i was at MR18ish and decided to get max available MR at the time, think it was MR25. Can in a sense say im just like you, i literally just didnt care about raising MR. This is also besides the point because you and i are 2 players among millions so it proves near nothing.

You exist so therefore your claim is wrong. 😜

Quote

You dont have time to rank players on gameplay at this point, recruiting is a hit and miss system, you either get complete jackasses or players that do what they are supposed to. As you said, you look at MR since its a clear indication they atleast have the gear, you look at their loadout when they join, if they already in requested gear then thats a goodwill indication that they are in fact experienced, you look if they make additional remarks in chat for build tweaking and/or if they think themself play other roles to reduce time finding specific players for the roles. Its still a hit and miss because that MR26 who joined with the right loadout but didnt say much could in fact never have done a Plauge Star run in his entire life even though you stated you want experienced players but the chances that he has done the mission and the farm before and is experienced is indeed a lot higher when hes a higher MR.

That's why I look at the gear they bring to the party before anything else. The gear tells me what I'm working with. Someone who is in poorly chosen gear is going to be a liability no matter what MR. It's why we pay attention to a mesa in a radiation Sortie no matter what mastery they are packing. Yes someone could carry all the right gear and have no idea, but they're still more likely to be useful regardless of the mastery. 

Quote

I have 200+ Hydro caps, i claim that me and a clanmate where among the first non-omegatryhards that got to 100 hydro caps, we recruited random players most of the time for the last two spots while grinding. I can admit that i taken lower MR players too after giving them chances and sometimes it worked out and sometimes now but i do not remember more than single digit encounters with inexperienced high MR players. Pushing for 200 caps i was not as strict with high MR vs low MR since i did not go for speed anymore and i can confirm that i had a lot more trouble having to teach lower MR players the ropes. This is but one example using Eidolons which is a bit extreme but i can relate this with other grinds too.

Jump into the Terry hunts. Many inexperienced players have already learned that they should start with just the first one. I've seen higher MR newbs a lot of times. You'll get in and see multiple higher MR players and no marked enemy or waypoint to hint where to go. You'll see mirages and shotguns aplenty. You will be picking people up often.

Yes there will be good higher MR players but you'll also see a lot of people who do well in the mid to lower teens. I certainly have. 

Quote

Can  we agree MR does infact matter for the discussion at hand regardles if we like it or not?

Nope, because again it's not the MR, but the player that matters. Once they cross the required MR gate for their equipment selection, there's no actual remaining barrier to their playing with it other than the hubris that makes us think that they can't do as well as anyone else. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

why dance around it ? you know very well those missions you provided can be run by almost anyone even casuals, leveling fodders (if they're actually that) will not prevent you from playing those game modes and you can even level your fodders will playing them for god sake so why lie to yourself dude ? 

and why are you making it sounds like sticking with single weapon and frame and build to farm the same boring grind will make that weapon gain some imaginary power that you only get if you toss 100h of gameplay with it, and how in god name did not get bored playing those missions over and over and over and over without bothering to try the new crap DE keep releasing ? since when Warframe become an Overwatch level of competitive when sticking with a single hero and honing your skills with it is more beneficial than trying them all from time time ? what game are you playing dude ? and i can take you seriously when you say that you rather spend your time fishing and mining when in fact the resources you get from that are used primarily to craft new weapons and frames, like holy crap you're contradicting yourself on every level, even Eidolons require you to grind the the standing and craft the operator guns with will give you exp you like it or not, stop man you're just digging grave after grave for yourself and this is the last grave ill show you, who in the freaking hell would play ESO for no reason other than getting affinity or farming the piss poor rng chance of vandals weapons and khora ? who even bother with the focus points at 1000h of gameplay ? like wtf are you even playing bro ? and even index are used to farm credit with are used to craft weapons and frames and pets and you can never have enough credit, you basically are playing something else other than warframe with your logic, a game where collecting things is the priamry goal, a game where fashion frame are the true end game, a game that have no meaningful PVP that allow you to show your ''mad skills'' you get from sticking with the same gear and focusing on ''getting better'' with them like its overwatch or League of legends.

sorry for hurting your feelings with a harmless joke that i used in context of how this game have no end game.

concrete facts ? so if we go down that patch we're simply just wasting our time here, you can have your opinions and you can strengthen it with facts that you explain and prove as such, with is exactly what i did, trying to down play them as ''opinions'' and only that is just running away from the debate, just like what you did by saying and quote:

It is player preference since we all have different opinions. Otherwise I obviously wouldnt say the cap doesnt matter to me. Tada! Personal preference of what is OK.

haha lol ! this is not an answer this is a strawman, if you truly looking for true talk then you would not be hang up on that ''boltor prime'' that i only used as an example because lets face it, if you're low mr of 16 and you have over 1000h of gameplay then what the hell do you want me to think ? what weapon are you using every mission ? can you be flexible if a party memeber left and you only have a certain amount of frames and your team needs a specific one and you dont have that ? you can only do them a favor by leaving.

i am still just baffled by your logic man, like what the fuk are you even farming ? and what for ? why are you mining and finishing ? what are you gonna use that resources for ? how the hell did you play the game when there was the biggest content drought around ? i dont get man i really dont, we're not crapping on low mr players, we're just saying that mr matter a lot to this game design atleast and not in a good way.

When I level fodders I prefer to do it quick, most often with affinity boosters. Again, angle of preference.

I level alot of new weapons that seem interesting. I also dont say I prefer fishing (or any of the other things) right now, it is simply one of the things in the past that were more important than a fodder weapon that would bring me no advancement in the end. I bother with the focus because I left many trees at bare minimum earlier. Also, can you atleast try and stay on subject, which is fodder weapons and not claim that I'm against leveling weapons as a whole. Those are two widely different things. Also remember, you mentioned fashion, not me.

Didnt really get or see the joke.

If you wanna strengthen opions with facts you provide actual facts. You havent, you've provided you opinion and view stated as facts. So if you do have actual facts, please do provide them. We are closer to facts in saying beyond MR16 there is no difference, because the game simply provides us with nothing gameplay enhancing (for group play as this discussion was about to begin with) after that. Those are facts that the game provides us with, those are not opinions. The opinion is in going against the facts of what the game actually provides, and will never actually be facts unless DE implements more concrete gameplay enhancements beyond MR16. The rest is just "what if?" and "can be" speculations based on opinions.

When I was MR16 I had all the available frames aswell as all the needed weapon for the time being, inculding some fodder trash that I had leveled and discarded aswell. I had all the flexibility needed in my loadouts at the time, just as I have now. And it isnt exactly hard to get the key items long before 16 either, you simply need the knowledge of what they are and prioritize.

And no, MR does not matter alot. 1-12 is the point that matters the most, then up to 16 to get all options covered. After that there is zero difference in what you bring to a group based on MR, after that you need to look at other things to get a sense where the player is at in their progression and experience.

 

[MacKerris]

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

12 hours ago, Facadedestroyer said:

you're blowing it out of proportion, and i saw you many times use this blanket defense of  ''they get bliss to pay'' and ''devs have kids to feed'' so guess what, so do we, just because your'e a worker does not make it okay to take money for crappy product.

and almsot everybody know how the gaming industry works even with a little research.

DE are not the same people you know 7 years ago, they're bought by a chinese company, the primary objective is to make all the money and then some more.

do i need to remind you how much we're getting monetized ? PA every 3 months that ask for 120$ real cash for reskins and low effort cosmetics with no trailer, and also PA Vaults in between so they can milk you consistently 24/7, and that is not counting the in-game economy that suck your plat dry with deluxes skins that only comes out when theres a rework for a rushed grabo frame and with kitguns and zaws and whatever the hell else is coming you will never stop buying potatos, how much money is enuf ? and are we getting our money worth those days ? i say no and the current content drought and the out of touch devs who think that level 35 is the end game high level is a proof.

we're entitled to our money and time, and this game use up a lot of it especially your time and let me ask you this:

why do you think we still have the bs cost for hema research untouched ? 

and nice grammar nazi tight there, you have nothing to nitpick but that lol.

No, friend, YOU are blowing things out of proportion.

First off, it's completely racist to assume that having their parent company in China means "they're just greedy, money-loving, low-quality ******!" 
The point of ANY business is to make money.  That's literally why businesses exist!  And this is even MORESO for businesses in ENTERTAINMENT.

They're not friggin' responsible for HEALTHCARE or FEEDING you food you couldn't get elsewhere.  THIS IS A F****** VIDEO GAME!  It's an INDULGENCE, a LUXURY.  It's not a necessity.  So stop acting like them charging for literally anything is somehow keeping you from what you "need".

More over, DE has never "taken" your money for a "crappy product".  They offer product, at -no- cost, and the extras are there, like PAs, completely transparent as to what you get. They are not mandatory.  If you look them over and decide to buy them, you get EXACTLY what you paid for, and if you think it's crap, you have only yourself to blame if you still clicked "Purchase" after reading and viewing all the info.

Don't act like they're somehow being shady.  They have DevStreams and Twitter feeds where they CONSTANTLY discuss, in FULL, the processes they're going through...and you want to act like they're blindsiding you? Please...

Yes, we all have mouths to feed...and we have jobs to afford to do so.  So do DE employees. Devs are still employees. I don't see how this is any different.  You telling me that the customers are YOUR place of work are all 100% completely over-the-moon satisfied with paying for all of YOUR products? Every time? It's no different.

Hema, like many things, is a intended to be a timesink. It's intended to give you a goal you can accomplish over time, and with the help of clanmates and friends.  If you choose to ignore that, that's on you.  I built my Hema, funded it and all, with the help of just 3 clanmates in just a few days.  It's not hard.

If the game was "Build everything in a week's time", then people would stop playing soon thereafter, investors would pull out, and DE would have to close their doors. The end.

But clearly you know so much better than a big development studio.  What business do you own again?  How much profit did you turn in the past 5 years?  Thought so.


I don't have any issue with people voicing their opinions. That's partially what these forums are for... But I will not stand around and watch people bully and pick on people who are doing their best to provide something free and, tbh, better than most any other game out there.... and act like somehow they're just some grubby villainous a$$hats.

That's unfair, unkind, and slanderous at -best-.  It's certainly not the way Tenno should present themselves.




Warframe costs nothing to play.  If you buy into any of their packs/cosmetics/plat etc...you knew what you were getting, and you did so completely of your own freewill.  DE did not "rob" you. They did not twist your arm and force anything.  

New players who don't know better see this crap on the forums and it's their first impression of the game....DO NOT present lies and slander that would paint an unfair and untrue picture.  That's a huge disservice to the future of the game AND to the community.

FFS, this place gives me a headache >.<

[SneakyErvin]

22 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

didnt you say that you dont give a crap about mystery fodders and you better off focusing on other things like ESO and Arbitration ? lol

with is the normal thing to do, theres plenty of them for all MR tiers and nothing stop you from grabbing them all and leveling those suckers in matter of hours (proving you builded them all)

dude there was no use for fishing other than resources they provided with are used to craft arcanes (in the past) and weapons and operators guns with will nut you a lot of exp and make you a High MR player if you've been playing this game for over a year.

do you have a metal detector that are used to know if my wall of text and reasoning is fact or not ? what the fuk

facts are things that you and i cant fight or disagree over, i provided plenty of those.

you seems to listen to nobody but your own echo voices, didnt i agree with you that yes you can be a high mr player and know very little about this game (rare to find) or be low mr player and still be good at the game knowledge/gameplay wise (with is unicorn rare), we didnt say its impossible, we said that its so freaking rare when recruiting for high end content and i am better off with high mr player than low level ones.

you passed them off as facts, see ? ill use the same logic you was using on me and lets see how you like it.

but you're correct, when it comes down to it mr will not limit your ability to browse the wiki and do research, the only limit is you not having the freaking thing you're researching in the first place because you dont have time to spend on ''mystery fodders'' as you say.

the amount of contradiction is so damn high over here, WE DONT VIEW LOW MR PLAYERS AS TRASH, how many times do i need to explain to you? we're saying that MR matters to the game design wise, and it indicate how much you advanced with the game, i dont the freaking time to do a research on your background, and even then you will not find many groups with this way of thinking because one of the core things about this game is finding new metas, and you can do that unless you have everything out there.

and you didnt even answered me lol ! what the #*!% have you been playing up to this point and what did you grind ? this whole game is built around collecting things and farming  crap so you can build crap so you can use that crap to farm for even more crap, its how this game is designed, theres no meaningful pvp that you need that level of focusing on limited loadout to get better, at what exactly ? deleting grinner with a single shot of your arca plasmor ? 

god damn it listen to me, we dont say that low mr are trash and will never bee good, we're saying that mr indicate how much frames and weapons you have, if i am looking for a group to do some new meta or try to find new one then you damn sure i am not picking you up, especially when you have just tonkor or whatever the hell you view as meta at the time and nothing else, yes you still be ''skilled'' at the game knowledge wise but you will still suck gear wise because you didnt put the effort into getting them and you just been playing barbie and doing index and freaking arbitration that only give you endo and half assed mods and fishing just for the heck of it when you can just a grap a freaking bp from the market and build that gun and do something else will you waiting.

MR matter a lot when it comes to flexibility, nobody prefer for they're gear to gated behind a freaking syndicate that use your mr as how much standing you can get every day.

also its proof that DE only cater to casuals in the long run, only them matter.

I said there are far more fun things to do than leveling fodders just for the sake of raising pointless MR. That actually includes fishing and mining, yes they are both far more fun than leveling fodder items.

It is painfully hard to get what you are trying to write because it is all over the place. I'll just answer shortly to some of the points that werent about to melt my brain from reading.

Yes MR indicates how much you've advanced up to MR 16. Beyond that it doesnt. Up to 16 it tells me that you have access to those specific items, beyond that it tells me nothing of what you've done except that you've leveled alot of trash. So the MR itself is pointless beyond MR16. If I wanna know what you've actually done I need to do a deeper check to see captures, weapon usage, frame usage, time played and so on.

I dont think anyone here has said or implied that you think low mr players are trash. We simply say beyond MR16 they dont matter. Also, what I passed of as facts i.e that we get nothing gameplay changing after 16 are actual facts, because we get nothing after that point aside from loadout slots, void trace cap increase and standing, neither of which improves our role in a group. What you claim is that there is a better chance for better players the higher the MR rank is, that isnt fact, those are assumptions with no concrete evidence to back them up, neither within or outside the game.

And as I said to the other guy. If you think MR16 is low level, then you are sadly far out of touch with the game and probably have a very poor memory regarding how much you can unlock and accomplish by hitting that MR level. You have pretty much everything of the best at that point and a massive amount of potential candidates for optimal build along with several trash items.

Edited May 8, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

9 hours ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Bad example...  its as if a pizzeria free meals but the only toppings are already spoiled pepperoni slices or disgusting cheese that only 5% of the buyers like 

The store also has a donation option that the other 95% of buyers graciously used a lot. 

Then stop eating there...if ya don't like the crap they serve.

Don't sit outside and picket the place constantly, getting in the way of people who DO enjoy it, when there are other pizzerias down the street.

It's like you're just not happy that people like something that you don't.