"This is high level, we are starting at 35" ....ehm, what? :D

[ranks21]

why does ppl use the term 'meta'? it's so silly. enemies/difficulty is adjusted/introduced, players use a combination of the tools at hand, fine tunes the ones that are efficient to their likings vs the enemies/difficulty to play that content in a reasonable time.

remember bailiffs, prosecutors, pre-nerfed nullifiers, eximus units, napalm units and much more that wrecked havoc because no one really understood the best ways at first to kill efficiently. now look where we are today. there were no exceptions in the past of players doing 2 hrs survivals or defense or any endurance runs<< we did that because we can and 2 we knew of the ways to do it with or without weapons or team/group.  you either do or don't.

the truth is as time goes on, only shows that DE doesn't even know what they want to do with this game<< they have been stuck in this position since 2015.

if wolf has taught you anything, it just shows what not to use against him to make the fight short.

Edited May 5, 2019 by ranks21

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Aldain said:

The major difference in Killing Floor and Warframe is the static baseline that KF works with. Every single class has the same basic functions and health/armor with perks differing between them to better favor different playstyles.

Warframe has so much modular nature that implementing something like that would be nigh-impossible without players finding small number bases exploits that trivialize the content. I could see this being a thing if there was a "No Mods, base stats and abilities only" mode with different enemy scaling to accommodate for that, but that would also be taking the Warframe out of Warframe.

The second point of contention comes down to "Can DE make a boss that isn't just a sponge with damage gates and ability immunity?" because history kinda doesn't favor DE's boss design skills. I mean the Wolf ain't no Patriarch despite both being sponges because unlike the Wolf, the Patriarch is actually dangerous and has strategy to deal with him (Pipebomb hat is my favorite method personally).

Overall a mode like that isn't completely out of the realm of possibility, but I question Warframe and DE's capacity to implement it in a meaningful way.

Yeah some form of no mod mode would likely be required. And yeah, WF doesnt really shine when it comes to bosses. They have a few concept that turned out bad (Lech Krill) and then they have slightly better ones (Tyle Regor and angry girl on Sedna) plus two real ones that actually feel like proper bosses (PT and Exploiter). Heck, the Thumpers feel more like bosses than most of the bosses in the game.

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

Casuals/low MRs: "game too hard, DE make easy plz *weeehhh*

Supporting vets: "don't, were at the limit of our patience... "

DE: *ignores vets as always*

Supporting vets: *leaves*

The once greatest Community: *degrades into every other S#&amp;&#036;ty one*

Reputation: *gone*

Game value: *gone*

DE: *suprised pikachu face*

 

I hope sacrificing the community and your reputation was worth the bit of extra cash DE...

Send your Chinese overlords my regards I give up on you...  

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Casuals/low MRs: "game too hard, DE make easy plz *weeehhh*

Supporting vets: "don't, were at the limit of our patience... "

DE: *ignores vets as always*

Supporting vets: *leaves*

The once greatest Community: *degrades into every other S#&amp;&#036;ty one*

Reputation: *gone*

Game value: *gone*

DE: *suprised pikachu face*

 

I hope sacrificing the community and your reputation was worth the bit of extra cash DE...

Send your Chinese overlords my regards I give up on you...  

Easily overstating the issue.

Also, many vets earn plat in game by selling stuff to noobs ... but noobs also sell stuff to other noobs.

In the end, Vets become storehouses of sunk plat and rivens. When they leave, all these rivens and plat is stuck in one account and is essentially non circulating.

Plus, a lot of "Vets" are salty anyway.

Nothing lost here, really.

(Now before you call me a salty low MR noob you are free to check my profile)

Edited May 5, 2019 by Guest

[Ziser]

The issue is adding content that has multiply dicculty scales, they could simply have the mission node open an additional window for the mission where you get to select the starting level as lvl 35, 60, 100 etc, and yet some will complain because they cant beat the harder version of the mission node. Call me an elitist and entitled but i grew up with games that where hard, challanged me and i sure as hell didnt give up when i failed and it was hard as S#&amp;&#036;, it was rewarding with in-game stuff at times and sometimes it was beating the challange itself and how i felt beating it that counted. That holds a big part in games for me and it saddens me to see people who have no intention to even try or step out of their confort zones to improve themself in order to complete challanges have an effect on how games diffculty scales evolve. If youre in to games for the stories, lore, visuals and characters but have no intention at all to adapt to the effort needed to see that then i highly reccomend watching others play the game on youtube. Its not like cave explorers or deep sea divers lower the requirments to become a cave explorer or diver so you can do it without even trying, they are kind enough to record their adventures for everyone to see.

Now warframe isnt particularly hard or challanging in itself, take it from somone who played the game for years and never let himself get stuck in any omegastrong metas because they ruin growth for both you and the game. This game is easy, theres no challanging part of the game whatsoever once you reach this point of experience in the game. I can agree it can be complicated and overwhelming as a new player and even worse when youre somewhere in the middle at times but pretty much everyone goes through the same thing. Id love to see challanges introduced for players with higher experience is diffrent fields with rewards displaying that, dont call it exclusive rewards, they are there for anyone willing to improve to face the challange.

Theres multiply ways to add challanging content, example as simple as introducing enemies with damage reduction and gating values that have modified resistance to lets say stuns and CCs, example Embers 2 which stuns enemies would be a stagger on said enemy instead and gives the enemy a short immunity to getting staggared again for a short time. Add massivly punishing attacks to the enemy that can be interupted with CCs where them being in a staggered, knockdowned or other forms of CCd state have a lot less damage reduction, the attacks could have interesting patterns that could allow players who experienced them find ways to dodge them instead while focusing on dealing damage, lets say the enemy takes more damage while casting these attacks. It adds fun and interesting enemies that can pose a challange to players and make CC frames relevant too. Just lighter units in normal missions like this would be awesome, i for one would love this. Ofc i can already see people hard REEEing in the distance to something like this for being "Tedious" and using "Muh farming efficiency" as an excuse because its simply forcing some to stepp out of their comfort zone. Now you might not want to sink that much time in a game to improve to the point where you can tackle those challanges and i respect that but i see players complaining whenever anything remotely challanging is added when they havent even tried to improve and having it changed to be easier because of that is another form of being entitled itself.

The playerbase in this game is highly split and DEs will to let everyone, new player, experienced and veteran have access to all and same content is a wonderfull idea but it really does not work in the long run and thats clearly evident.

[Vox_Preliator]

2 hours ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Casuals/low MRs: "game too hard, DE make easy plz *weeehhh*

Supporting vets: "don't, were at the limit of our patience... "

DE: *ignores vets as always*

Supporting vets: *leaves*

The once greatest Community: *degrades into every other S#&amp;&#036;ty one*

Reputation: *gone*

Game value: *gone*

DE: *suprised pikachu face*

I hope sacrificing the community and your reputation was worth the bit of extra cash DE...

Send your Chinese overlords my regards I give up on you...  

Wow that's like the complete opposite of what's actually happening.

[Chipputer]

3 hours ago, ranks21 said:

why does ppl use the term 'meta'? it's so silly. enemies/difficulty is adjusted/introduced, players use a combination of the tools at hand, fine tunes the ones that are efficient to their likings vs the enemies/difficulty to play that content in a reasonable time.

Because that's... literally what META means?

Most
Effective (or efficient)
Tactic
Available

META is something that evolves to match the content. It isn't something created by the developers.

[ranks21]

3 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

META is something that evolves to match the content. It isn't something created by the developers.

the game and all it's contents is created by the developers.  it is the players for the most part distinguishes how we use those tools provided within the game by the developers. and the preference of tactics and tools used towards overcoming the difficulties or tediousness in the shortest amount of time is nothing more than preference not meta.

last I checked the devs never tells us how to use or what to use against anything they provide in game, they only give a hint on how it's done. so in conclusion the term 'meta' is quite silly.

[Chipputer]

Just now, ranks21 said:

the game and all it's contents is created by the developers.  it is the players for the most part distinguishes how we use those tools provided within the game by the developers. and the preference of tactics and tools used towards overcoming the difficulties or tediousness in the shortest amount of time is nothing more than preference not meta.

last I checked the devs never tells us how to use or what to use against anything they provide in game, they only give a hint on how it's done. so in conclusion the term 'meta' is quite silly.

I'm sorry if you disagree with what META is but I've told you what it means and why people use it. If you want to disagree with a literal objective definition then that's on you.

[ranks21]

Just now, Chipputer said:

I'm sorry if you disagree with what META is but I've told you what it means and why people use it. If you want to disagree with a literal objective definition then that's on you.

well if I disagree with you on every post you make ( in your theoretical thinking)  can in your thinking be called 'meta" but it's just my prefence in reality<<< see why it's a silly concept....

[Ziser]

3 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

well if I disagree with you on every post you make ( in your theoretical thinking)  can in your thinking be called 'meta" but it's just my prefence in reality<<< see why it's a silly concept....

Its not a silly concept, he gave a perfect description to what meta is and why it isnt silly. Your personal perspective of what meta is does not change what it is because in reality it is exactly what he described regardless what you want it to be.

[ranks21]

1 minute ago, Ziser said:

Its not a silly concept, he gave a perfect description to what meta is and why it isnt silly. Your personal perspective of what meta is does not change what it is because in reality it is exactly what he described regardless what you want it to be.

now here is another trying to justify the term meta, so my question is because players who uses a certain set or combination of whatever because they prefers to and its fun for them or efficient in their regards is against what you consider fun or what you think the devs want??

so in your own way of thinking to justify the term meta, is no one should have a preference or choice in what they use or how they want to enjoy the game...mmmm, gotchya...

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, ranks21 said:

so in your own way of thinking to justify the term meta, is no one should have a preference or choice in what they use or how they want to enjoy the game...mmmm, gotchya...

Are you purposefully doing this? This game of semantics you're playing is nonsensical.

META and preference are not mutually exclusive. META is not an inherently negative term. Stop it.

[ranks21]

Just now, Chipputer said:

Are you purposefully doing this? This game of semantics you're playing is nonsensical.

META and preference are not mutually exclusive. META is not an inherently negative term. Stop it.

nope just proving why it's a silly concept altogether as there is no way you can say it's not players choice/preference to use or do what youre name tagging as 'meta'

[IntheCoconut]

13 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

now here is another trying to justify the term meta, so my question is because players who uses a certain set or combination of whatever because they prefers to and its fun for them or efficient in their regards is against what you consider fun or what you think the devs want??

so in your own way of thinking to justify the term meta, is no one should have a preference or choice in what they use or how they want to enjoy the game...mmmm, gotchya...

Since there is still some confusion, here is an example:

The META is to use Trinity, Chroma, Volt and sniper weapons on Eidolons because it is the most time effective method. I'd love to use Hyldrin because I prefer her and its fun for me to use, and I hate all of the aforementioned frames, but I don't want to hit my head against a rock for 1.5 hours and get no where, so I adhere to the META and bring volt/chroma/trinity and a sniper.

Edited May 5, 2019 by IntheCoconut

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

19 hours ago, trst said:

It's an endless mission type available on the star chart, yes? 35 is relatively high considering they'll only get stronger from there.

 

Also making very high base level content, especially endless content, makes the cracks in the game's systems painfully obvious.

I'd say it's less about difficulty and more about how strict meta and outright viability gets going into such content as well as issues with the armor and damage scaling enemies have at those points. When high level really just comes down to bullet sponges and one-shots it isn't really that engaging for a lot of players.

This game would need ground-up reworks to a lot of systems in order to properly accommodate what endurance players consider to be high-level. Unless DE takes the route of embracing the faults in their systems and makes them work to their benefit (encouraging stricter metas and min-maxing play styles) but I don't see that as very likely.

basically this. 

It's not that Rebb or other devs "don't get it".  It's more that super high -starting- levels aren't really the answer y'all think they are.

I mean, they gave us Wolf with super armor...people complained.  Should be a hint right there as to how people respond.  

And tbh, what's the point of lvl 1000 mobs when y'all are just gonna minmax to oblivion or cheese 'em with Sleep Ivara + Covert Lethality anyway?

[Chipputer]

Just now, ranks21 said:

nope just proving why it's a silly concept altogether as there is no way you can say it's not players choice/preference to use or do what youre name tagging as 'meta'

Nobody is saying anything about choice except you, though.

[ranks21]

3 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Nobody is saying anything about choice except you, though.

seriously, some ppl just hates to be corrected.

Since there is still some confusion, here is an example:

The META is to use Trinity, Chroma, Volt and sniper weapons on Eidolons because it is the most time effective method. I'd love to use Hyldrin because I prefer her and its fur for me to use, and I hate all of the aforementioned frames, but I don't want to hit my head against a rock for 1.5 hours and get no where, so I adhere to the META and bring volt/chroma/trinity and a sniper

there is no confusion, read what you wrote you by your own choice, preferred to do eidolons with  a certain set of frames whom others have used and have posted  to show how quickly the fight can be done. sure you could've used any frame but you preferred not to because it would be to long so it all comes down to preference and choice and not meta because none of those frames are totally necessary to do the content.

Edited May 5, 2019 by ranks21

[IntheCoconut]

20 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

So, i was watching Devstream #127 today, and at ~47:50 when Rebecca has problems killing the enemies, and i think Sheldon asks "did you mod the weapon?", Reb replies with:

"I did, this is high level, so.. we are starting at 35" and later

"its gonna be tricky for players a little bit"...

 

She also says "scaling will be much faster", but if lvl35 is considered high, i really wonder what will be considered fast 😁

 

I think i have lost all faith at that exact moment that we will ever be able to face Sortie3-stage-lvl enemies without having to spend a long time in a mission... i just want to have missions that start at level 100 so i dont have to go through the boring warm-up part each time....

 

If you watch the stream, enemies start at level 35, but after 2 mins of completing only ONE node (mind you, you can complete 4 at a time with a squad), enemies started to spawn up to level 42 when she began the second node. That is pretty fast in terms of scaling, and we don't know yet how it will scale with a full squad completing all the nodes at the same time. Is it going to jump based on time, efficiency, or number of nodes completed? In either case, I get that level 35 isn't high, but it does appear to scale pretty rapidly.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

2 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

seriously, some ppl just hates to be corrected.

The meta in ANY game is an objective "best/most efficient option"...keyword there being OPTION.

Noone is forced to play meta.  It's just an option... albeit a good one IF, and read this carefully, IF your intent is efficiently completing content.

If you're just playing for fun, you might disregard it completely, and that's fine, too.

Now please stop sidetracking the discussion.  Let's get back on topic.

 

[Ziser]

17 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

now here is another trying to justify the term meta, so my question is because players who uses a certain set or combination of whatever because they prefers to and its fun for them or efficient in their regards is against what you consider fun or what you think the devs want??

so in your own way of thinking to justify the term meta, is no one should have a preference or choice in what they use or how they want to enjoy the game...mmmm, gotchya...

Lmao dude, the meta is the meta regardless if its fun for you, i use whatever the hell i want and fyi it is almost always not the meta. Just because you use something that isnt the meta dosnt mean its useless or unfun. I never said that whatever dosnt follow the meta isnt fun so i have no idea what youre on man. What you said does not in any way change what meta is. The meta does not care what you think is fun or efficient either. I played the game for years and youre starting to sound like youre annoyed with people using the meta because it in fact is stronger and more efficient than what youre using and therefor the meta is "silly".

Edited May 5, 2019 by Ziser
Typo, TOO MANY TYPOS

[ranks21]

11 minutes ago, Ziser said:

Lmao dude, the meta is the meta regardless

so when DE nerfs stuff on basically every patch whether it's justified or not in your words and way of adhering to what others think< can be call 'meta' too

this is fun as hell

Edited May 5, 2019 by ranks21

[(PSN)drollive96]

I really dont see whats wrong with "powercreep" in a looter game. In most of these games you'll just keep getting stronger and stronger gear as you progress while the enemies also get stronger and stronger as you progress. Whats wrong with that? Obviously some weapons are going to be better than others and are of course going to be used more. This is UNAVOIDABLE, the ridiculously strong " meta" gear should just be locked behind higher mastery ranks, while the enemy's level scales up to match the power of said weapons. Nerfing things and refusing to create higher level missions is a step in the wrong direction Imo

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Casuals/low MRs: "game too hard, DE make easy plz *weeehhh*

Supporting vets: "don't, were at the limit of our patience... "

DE: *ignores vets as always*

Supporting vets: *leaves*

The once greatest Community: *degrades into every other S#&amp;&#036;ty one*

Reputation: *gone*

Game value: *gone*

DE: *suprised pikachu face*

 

I hope sacrificing the community and your reputation was worth the bit of extra cash DE...

Send your Chinese overlords my regards I give up on you...  

Congratulations sir! You just won the exxageration reward!

Your reward is a color-radio!

 

[Jhaerik]

20 hours ago, Firetrucksrule said:

It comes up severely short of PoE and Fortuna bounties, kuva floods, arbitration, eso, high level index, sorties, endless runs and I'd be surprised if I'm not forgetting something. Level 35 is middling regardless of how seriously you play the game. Calling level 35s middling was considering the perspectives of a casual player. By any other measure its downright low. 

Or we could just provide feedback to content being teased so we hopefully don't have to complain when it launches? 🤷‍♂️ 

Hell I'm fairly casual (only MR10).... and I don't even bother playing with both hands until stuff hits 85-100.

Even a Rubico with a few formas can 1-2 shot level 130s.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Jhaerik