"This is high level, we are starting at 35" ....ehm, what? :D

[-Delimit-]

Just now, Chipputer said:

Technically you can use a 111 and be just fine, as well. The Pencha Scaffold is actually quite powerful and non-resource intensive to craft and is perfect for someone who just wants something to get the job done but not have to prepare for 5x3 or 6x3 or whatever the going rate is for eidolon META lately.

Right, I more meant that getting to top rank of Quills isn't really that important early on.  A decent amp and he'll have more rep shards than he can ever spend, but getting those shards with a crap amp is going to be a pain (unless you get carried through a few Eidolons) 

[HugintheCrow]

7 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I know you think that you're coming across as smart, or cute, or something, but you really aren't.

It's a multi-pronged issue, the least of which being people not liking feeling like they have to tote their Catchmoon around everywhere, let alone the fact that lower MR players are running into an enemy they are woefully under geared to deal with, most of whom do not have the ability to get a kitgun.
Stop looking at it from your own perspective. It's not a 1:1 comparison. That level 60 Bombard is nothing compared to that level 60 Wolf. He is objectively in his own class and requires a level of power above that of the requirement to take out the enemies around him as a direct result of the things I stated in my earlier post.

See, this is what I hate about ignoring blatant trolls and white knights... Someone is gonna quote them anyway.

I really wouldn't bother continuing feeding that guy, Chipputer.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I know you think that you're coming across as smart, or cute, or something, but you really aren't.

It's a multi-pronged issue, the least of which being people not liking feeling like they have to tote their Catchmoon around everywhere, let alone the fact that lower MR players are running into an enemy they are woefully under geared to deal with, most of whom do not have the ability to get a kitgun.
Stop looking at it from your own perspective. It's not a 1:1 comparison. That level 60 Bombard is nothing compared to that level 60 Wolf. He is objectively in his own class and requires a level of power above that of the requirement to take out the enemies around him as a direct result of the things I stated in my earlier post.

Oh but nobody needs to take a catchmoon. There are a lot of different possibilities, and the catchmoon isn't even a particularly good one. One of the eidolon hunting rifles would be a lot better based on what I have. It's just that I enjoy the catchmoon more. When I don't take it, I carry a melee that builds up. I suppose that taking valkyr p or excalibur u is also an option for me, but I prefer rhino for hydron. 

Any of the many options, would work, but many people believe that "unprepared" should work just as well. That gives rise to the sort of dichotomy that I highlighted in my earlier post. 

🍏 Delicious! Although I suspect it is a Granny Smith and not one of the "Delicious" varieties at all. (Apple joke!) 

[KnightCole]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Focus ≠ Quills standing. 

Craft or trade for some lenses put them on your favourite gear, and just touch the glowing orbs when they're around. Every so often go spend the focus on whatever you want. 

Ive done that, ive got a couple million Focus that ive spent, though its in 2 focus schools cuz the descriptions for focus was a LIE when I first chose mine when it was first introduced.

I chose Uniaru initially cuz it read as being the 'Defensive" school, to outlast your enemy, so I chose it thinking it would give me things like some mild health regen, or extra armor(which is about the only defensive thing it did).  Beyond that it was the "petrification" tree.  IDK what it is now, but its still pretty useless.  Id love to take all the focus I have in that school and put it in Madaurai which is the one I have now cuz it gives me a decent amount of passive +Dmg.

43 minutes ago, -AS-Delimit said:

That's a focus issue, not a Quills issue.  (You also don't need to get rank 5 to upgrade your amp - you can use a 223 amp and be successful)

223 amp?  That literally means nothing to me lol. The only thing that comes to mind when I see 223 is a WWII German scout car and an M-16 or AR-15.

I looked at the different recipes, we need to be atleast rank 4 to get all the pieces.  If I can upgrade the base AMP, I sure as tits dont know how.  I talked to Quills, ive played lego with the different options in the Quills guy window and idk what im doing with it.  I got a couple of blueprints as rewards, im rank 2 with the guy now....I was reading the descriptions of the parts, I was putting together what I thought was an "LMG" type amp, it had like 100 rounds of ammo, 30% Crit chance and the like.....but I dont have the recipes.  I think I started to build one of the pieces I do have, a brace or something.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

20 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Ive done that, ive got a couple million Focus that ive spent, though its in 2 focus schools cuz the descriptions for focus was a LIE when I first chose mine when it was first introduced.

That's a nice start. But what we're saying is that you need to work on all of the schools and if you dump the focus into all of the right places you will notice vast improvement across the board. You need a LOT of focus. 

What you have right now is like a monitor that only shows green. It's giving you something, but it's not anything close to the full picture. 

Quote

223 amp?  That literally means nothing to me lol. The only thing that comes to mind when I see 223 is a WWII German scout car and an M-16 or AR-15.

He's referring to them by tier for each part instead of name. 

Quote

I looked at the different recipes, we need to be atleast rank 4 to get all the pieces.  If I can upgrade the base AMP, I sure as tits dont know how.  I talked to Quills, ive played lego with the different options in the Quills guy window and idk what im doing with it.  I got a couple of blueprints as rewards, im rank 2 with the guy now....I was reading the descriptions of the parts, I was putting together what I thought was an "LMG" type amp, it had like 100 rounds of ammo, 30% Crit chance and the like.....but I dont have the recipes.  I think I started to build one of the pieces I do have, a brace or something.

You can't upgrade your amps other than gliding. Chipputer is correct that you can technically use a 111 amp which is a huge improvement over the mote, and a 222 is an even better option (which you should have available to you at this point) but the 223 used to be widely preferred to either one and requires a part one level higher than where you are now. 

If you have any amp at all, just tag along in some public eidolon hunts. A good high rad sniper rifle will help you to contribute once the shields go down, and in a single "night" you can often get several days worth of stuff to turn in for standing. (Not to mention possibly a lot of potential focus....) 

 

Good luck and good hunting, Tenno. 

[KnightCole]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That's a nice start. But what we're saying is that you need to work on all of the schools and if you dump the focus into all of the right places you will notice vast improvement across the board. You need a LOT of focus. 

What you have right now is like a monitor that only shows green. It's giving you something, but it's not anything close to the full picture. 

He's referring to them by tier for each part instead of name. 

You can't upgrade your amps other than gliding. Chipputer is correct that you can technically use a 111 amp which is a huge improvement over the mote, and a 222 is an even better option (which you should have available to you at this point) but the 223 used to be widely preferred to either one and requires a part one level higher than where you are now. 

If you have any amp at all, just tag along in some public eidolon hunts. A good high rad sniper rifle will help you to contribute once the shields go down, and in a single "night" you can often get several days worth of stuff to turn in for standing. (Not to mention possibly a lot of potential focus....) 

 

Good luck and good hunting, Tenno. 

When the Eidolons shields go down and Facemask McTalksalot says "Energy spike, run!!" thats when we can shoot it with regular weapons?

Eidolon fights dont make much sense to me.  I just shoot it in the bulging grill looking spots where the biceps and thighs are on a human.   That between shooting all the little Vomvalysts, and respawning my kid cuz the Eidolons should be reported for child abuse.

And why have I heard that Oberon and his magic carpet is a good frame for Eidolon hunting?  What does his magic carpet do?  And how dang many lures do we need and what do they actually do?  Where hte crap is the instruction manual on Eidolon hunting?  Or what most the crap in POE does....

[-Delimit-]

49 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

223 amp?  That literally means nothing to me lol.

Shwaak/Shrak/Lohrin - decent all around amp that works great if you're just getting into farming Eidolons.  Can pop Voms with ease, and still alt-fire shields.  It doesn't require high standings.  As he said, even a tier 1 set will be an upgrade over the dumpster that is the mote amp. A little bit of focus farming and you're operator will stop flopping harder than an NBA player, and actually take some hits. 

[KnightCole]

1 minute ago, -AS-Delimit said:

Shwaak/Shrak/Lohrin - decent all around amp that works great if you're just getting into farming Eidolons.  Can pop Voms with ease, and still alt-fire shields.  It doesn't require high standings.  As he said, even a tier 1 set will be an upgrade over the dumpster that is the mote amp. A little bit of focus farming and you're operator will stop flopping harder than an NBA player, and actually take some hits. 

What focus increases his health?  I looked in the Madurai school, everything is about lighting my void trail on fire.....

Do we get the bonuses from multiple focus schools at once or something? 

Alt Fire shields? 

Edited May 5, 2019 by KnightCole

[-Delimit-]

Just now, KnightCole said:

What focus increases his health?  I looked in the Madurai school, everything is about lighting my void trail on fire.....

Do we get the bonuses from multiple focus schools at once or something? 

We've wandered quite a bit off topic, but Vazarin has a node that increases operator health by 150% that helps quite a bit.  And yes, you can unlock way-bound nodes after you max them and use them in any tree.  (1 million focus + Eidolon shard) With some focus investment, your operator is walking around with over 1100 health, and won't be the constant chain of death for your operator that you describe. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

18 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

When the Eidolons shields go down and Facemask McTalksalot says "Energy spike, run!!" thats when we can shoot it with regular weapons?

Eidolon fights dont make much sense to me.  I just shoot it in the bulging grill looking spots where the biceps and thighs are on a human.   That between shooting all the little Vomvalysts, and respawning my kid cuz the Eidolons should be reported for child abuse.

And why have I heard that Oberon and his magic carpet is a good frame for Eidolon hunting?  What does his magic carpet do?  And how dang many lures do we need and what do they actually do?  Where hte crap is the instruction manual on Eidolon hunting?  Or what most the crap in POE does....

Not quite. The sequence is, blast off the shields, he will flash briefly and give a sound cue. Then you shoot the grills on his joints (synovia). When that pops you hear another cue and the instruction to run. 

Puny mortals need to run. You just need to switch form and crouch to go invisible/invulnerable while the emp passes you by. That little trick also keeps you safe from other forms of attack. 

If you want a well written guide, @GnarlsDarkley did an excellent job, in my opinion. I think that is the link to the current version. For the first one, you only need 2 lures, and most of the time enough voms spawn during the first shield phase to charge at least one. Too many lures actually makes collecting the charges in a single lure a pain if they are all bunched up. Once one is charged, and the shield goes down, pop a joint, hop out and crouch, and repeat. 

Just make sure that you collect all of the loot. A couple of public runs and you will have the basics down cold. When you open up the schools and start really powering up, you will wonder why you ever thought it was difficult. 

Good luck, and good hunting, Tenno. 👍

[Xzorn]

3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

You also have the age-old, "this person is complaining about lack of challenge because they chose to use the META methods," that gets tossed around a lot. People have decided that META is actually a blanket negative term. You have obvious examples of people now trying to re-define it into a technically correct idea while completely missing the forest for the trees.

 

I can't really hate on anyone for using meta concepts because in the end Warframe is a farming game.

Players seem to get confused. Since it's a farming game the quickest result is the meta. Challenge doesn't technically play a role. That's more the player's own preference of effort. Where it goes wrong once again is DE's development of spamming the same mission over and over. Also the AABC rotation scheme added long ago. They've given us direct manipulation of the #1 aspect in a farming game.

When the Void first came out you might recall the loot was FFA. Every 5 min / waves something dropped. There was no quickest method by leaving and joining every 20 min. You simply played. In Defense there was a threshold on clearing waves but in Survival long as you made it 5 min more; that's all you needed.

It's mostly been DE's own actions that diminish our options and create a more defined meta condition. Obviously if I'm going to kill Profit-Taker Solo I'm going to use Chroma because they've taken away all my other competitive options. I could use something else but they've made it a matter of time through mission spam.

Between Time, CC immunity, Status immunity and a DPS + eHP weighted fight they've essentially made the choice for me.

[KnightCole]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Between Time, CC immunity, Status immunity and a DPS + eHP weighted fight they've essentially made the choice for me.

That kinda stuff I hate in games.  They give you the illusion of choice, but in the end, you really only have 1 option, if you want to succeed without losing all your sanity.  If games want you to meta so hard, they should just give  you the meta for free and that be the only choice. 

[FlyingDice]

On 2019-05-04 at 3:27 PM, Jaysus41 said:

I'm pretty sure she means high level in relation to the average player. Lets not forget Super-Duper-No-Lifers that can 1 shot anything under level 1337 are an extreme minority.

What kind of bizarro-world are you living in where level 35 enemies are challenging for the average player? You can clear non-endless content at that level with any decent weapon and a lv.30 frame without any mods at all, and you can do it trivially with a handful of partially ranked basic mods. Unless your definition of "average" is "has literally started playing the game today" you're wildly off-base. Almost every weapon in the game on a one-forma build can oneshot level 35 enemies. Are you suggesting that farming and building one weapon and one forma makes someone part of the ultra-elite 1%? 🙄

Edited May 13, 2019 by FlyingDice

[Arniox]

On 2019-05-05 at 7:22 AM, DreisterDino said:

She also says "scaling will be much faster", but if lvl35 is considered high, i really wonder what will be considered fast 😁

It's because @[DE]Rebecca is actually terrible at the game in general. Her builds are mostly half finished and very weak. Now I'm not saying that's her fault. She's a very busy woman, but I am saying that she, or at least her account with her mod setups is not a good point of reference to use on a devstream...

At level 35 the new mission type will completely worthless to me... It's so piss easy that it will be 0 challange to most people my rank. 

If DE wants real challange. Start them at level 150 at least. Please

[Arniox]

On 2019-05-05 at 7:22 AM, DreisterDino said:

nope thats really not the case, i simply enjoy playing against tougher enemies a lot more

This. I agree with so much. I don't give two S#&$s about the rewards anymore. I just want challanging content and even though I'm a pretty casual player, even level 100 enemies are too low for me. 

I yearn for harder content but DE forever will never give it to us 

[George_PPS]

If you want high level enemies, you can always do arbitration and long survivals. Also there are missions that require specific loadouts one must spend time to work on. 

The game is not just for veterans and most players are still learning and modding their gears. If the game is made so hard and only serves the 1% top players, the system will be destroyed. 

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, George_PPS said:

The game is not just for veterans

The problem with the phrase, "the game is not just for veterans," is that, lately, it feels like the game isn't for veterans... at all.
You bring up things like Arbitrations but I challenge you to find me one veteran who is looking for content to really give them a run for their money that says they're difficult in any tangible manner. I also challenge you to find me one veteran that enjoys spending over an hour in a survival just to get to enemies that they can have fun fighting against.

DE wants to keep making sure all of the people that come in to check out their new updates are able to access and participate in all of the content they put out. As a result they keep making content that causes their veteran players to walk away dissatisfied.

[SordidDreams]

30 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

lately, it feels like the game isn't for veterans... at all

Which is very strange given that Steve stated in his interview with Mogamu that DE is chasing the veteran player at the expense of the new player experience.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

Which is very strange given that Steve stated in his interview with Mogamu that DE is chasing the veteran player at the expense of the new player experience.

I think the real issue is that some so-called "vets" are just tired of the game, since they've essentially beat it, but they've put so much of themselves into it (arguably too much) and don't want to put it down, either.  This frustration ends up needing a scapegoat, since they don't seem to want to admit they've just simply beat the game...and so they look for things to blame

RNG isn't fair...rewards aren't fair...DE is dumb.. .etc

It's just pointing fingers and slandering without any productive outcome.  

I mean, I can do just as much damage as any "vet" I've ever played with (and I've played with many), but I still enjoy the game, low levels AND higher levels, rewards or not.

I think it's an attitude issue.  Personally, if I'm bored or annoyed with something, I just put it down and find something else to do.  Life is short, and I've no shortage  of responsibilities.

If these "vets" can't find something else to do while they give Warframe a rest, then that's a "them" issue, not a Dev issue.

If you ever cared about the game, let it do its thing and stop trying to guilt it or shame it into submission to change to YOUR whim.  Let it be what it's going to be.  Friggin' so-called "vets" that SHOULD be fans of the franchise are selfishly trying to OWN it and CONTROL it.  

It'd be like me keeping Van Gogh locked up in a room, demanding he paint more sunflowers...even though he's clearly wanting to do other things.  I won't let him be what he could be, because I'm too absorbed with my idea of him.  That's not being a fan, that's being abusive and a bully.

Friggin' hell, just log out for a bit and move on if ya don't like it.

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

I remember a time before the game became too big for its own good
DE respected the players and trusted them to not be complete retards 
So they gave them a challenge,  they didn't spoon feed them everything, they made it so u had to work to get the good S#&$e,  to invest into your S#&$e so u could get somwhere  
Nowadays its become mainstream and casuals have degraded it into nothing special,  like it once was. 

Y'all normies can diss me as much as you want it won't make what I said any less true.. 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

On 2019-05-04 at 8:26 PM, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Well it looks like it is meant to be a standard star chart mission  so high level the way sedna is I guess.

DE's problem is they seem to be unwilling to put things behind content that is difficult for the casual player - and so long as thats the case, there will be no high level content.

 

The unfortunate truth is, if they cater to the hardcore minority, they will just end up alienating the majority of their playerbase. I didn't think the Nightwave "grind" was all that bad. But that didn't stop the forums from being bombarded by complaints about it.

DE is a business first and foremost and they would rather keep the majority happy than trying to please a niche crowd.

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

The unfortunate truth is, if they cater to the hardcore minority, they will just end up alienating the majority of their playerbase. I didn't think the Nightwave "grind" was all that bad. But that didn't stop the forums from being bombarded by complaints about it.

DE is a business first and foremost and they would rather keep the majority happy than trying to please a niche crowd.

It wasn't always like that though

They used to be one with the community that's why it grew so tightly

They didn't look for proffit first because they didnt treat warframe like a mobile game

But its grown too big for its own good

[-CdG-Zilchy]

14 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

I remember a time before the game became too big for its own good
DE respected the players and trusted them to not be complete retards 
So they gave them a challenge,  they didn't spoon feed them everything, they made it so u had to work to get the good S#&$e,  to invest into your S#&$e so u could get somwhere  
Nowadays its become mainstream and casuals have degraded it into nothing special,  like it once was. 

Y'all normies can diss me as much as you want it won't make what I said any less true.. 

Well said.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

7 hours ago, KnightCole said:

That kinda stuff I hate in games.  They give you the illusion of choice, but in the end, you really only have 1 option, if you want to succeed without losing all your sanity.  If games want you to meta so hard, they should just give  you the meta for free and that be the only choice. 

they give the meta "for free", but it requires to :
- complete the star chart
- level your dojo, research for the few valuable things (Nezha, Itzal, Arca Plasmor)
- farm derelict for the few corrupted mods
- farm the 60% elemental damage / 60% status chance mods
- farm relic for frames, meta weapons, forma and ducats
- wait that baro comes and have luck for those few good primed mods and the elec 60/60, sand of Inaros quest and the few good weapons he has.
- farm Eidolon to craft a correct Amp
- farm fortuna for a kitgun
- farm nightwave for Nitain and potatoes
- farm arbiration for "adaptation" mod
- farm sorties for Riven

As a recent player, this is what I had to do to reach "end game", and I still miss a few things in that to do list. It's doable but it requires tons of time, and googling.

Tbh I don't think that DE know the meta, but rather they release new stuff and the players find out the meta. They have playtesters, but usually playtests are too short, and there are not enough people to "learn" the meta. I think that they managed to do Profit Taker with correct builds, I don't even know if they had found the Chroma Prime meta before it was released.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

13 minutes ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

they give the meta "for free", but it requires to :
- complete the star chart
- level your dojo, research for the few valuable things (Nezha, Itzal, Arca Plasmor)
- farm derelict for the few corrupted mods
- farm the 60% elemental damage / 60% status chance mods
- farm relic for frames, meta weapons, forma and ducats
- wait that baro comes and have luck for those few good primed mods and the elec 60/60, sand of Inaros quest and the few good weapons he has.
- farm Eidolon to craft a correct Amp
- farm fortuna for a kitgun
- farm nightwave for Nitain and potatoes
- farm arbiration for "adaptation" mod
- farm sorties for Riven

As a recent player, this is what I had to do to reach "end game", and I still miss a few things in that to do list. It's doable but it requires tons of time, and googling.

Tbh I don't think that DE know the meta, but rather they release new stuff and the players find out the meta. They have playtesters, but usually playtests are too short, and there are not enough people to "learn" the meta. I think that they managed to do Profit Taker with correct builds, I don't even know if they had found the Chroma Prime meta before it was released.

Most meta players have mates in an established dojo and just get power rushed.