"This is high level, we are starting at 35" ....ehm, what? :D

[CodeUltimate]

I still don't understand why there is so much debate about something so simple.... DE doesn't know their own game and they are not even listening to the community. I think that already says enough about what kind of future content we will be getting lol

[Ziser]

2 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

I am not saying players are dumb. If anything, I am saying the opposite. Our laziness as players has given us clever ways to be efficient. Your argument is that just because its a new piece of gear, players will pay attention to it and learn how to use it. That isn't my experience and it isn't what I've observed either. There is nothing the the game that encourages you to use a weapon just because it is new. In fact, you aren't required to even use it, just so long as its equipped, you will passively level it up. You essentially get rewarded for doing nothing, and you expect me to believe that most players don't take advantage of that?

I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone go into a mission with a level 30 primary weapon, and a level 0 melee, and level 0 primary, and they never swap from their primary. They use that high level gear to carry them. But they can get that other gear to level 30 without ever even using it. I've done it, and I know lots of other people do it. You are telling me that this is a good representation of someone's knowlege of the game? Because they can equip something and level it up without actively using it, they've demonstrated knowledge of the game?

 

*Sound of toaster blowing up in distance*

When you equip weapons to rank them up you usually try them out at the same time, theres no reason not to, thats litrally how you find gear you like outside of reading and listening to other players opinions on gear. Anyone equipping a new weapon and not touching it at all just to remove it once it hits 30 is imo playing a game wrong, i call those players casuals and IMO casual players voided their opinions on lategame and diffculty as valid since they dont even want to try or take part of all the content the creators made for us.

[Ziser]

3 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

I still don't understand why there is so much debate about something so simple.... DE doesn't know their own game and they are not even listening to the community. I think that already says enough about what kind of future content we will be getting lol

They listen to the community alright, just not the right part of the community 😂

[CodeUltimate]

Just now, Ziser said:

They listen to the community alright, just not the right part of the community 😂

if they knew their game they wouldn't listen to the wrong part of the community :B

[Ziser]

Just now, CodeUltimate said:

if they knew their game they wouldn't listen to the wrong part of the community :B

DE themself never got to the point that most seasoned players is at simply because they do not put same amount of time playing the game, thats why its essential to listen to your experienced, seasoned veteran players.

[CodeUltimate]

Just now, Ziser said:

DE themself never got to the point that most seasoned players is at simply because they do not put same amount of time playing the game, thats why its essential to listen to your experienced, seasoned veteran players.

hey that's a pretty good point but maybe they are just ''listening'' to the bitesize community because it is easier to poop out meaningless content than to address real problems the game has. :B

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

28 minutes ago, Ziser said:

Imagine shafting yourself by not doing the tests lmao.

Whoever told you that you need 3 lures is a so called parrot, they hear and say what they hear without any research or thinking of their own, monkey see monkey doo, plenty of them across all mastery levels. The people asking you if its your first time might have asked you in wishes to help you. Since i dont know how they asked you i have no idea if they where being forcefull, ironicly agressive or somewhat pushing.

On the same note, did you accept any help? Did you ask anyone in your pub caps what tactics and gear can be used for more efficiency or giving you an easier time in generall? Could have given you new views of the subject, the community loves helping newer players after all. Seeing how you say that you dont even bother with ranking up your mastery i can only asume you also do not bother trying new gear for the job.

😁 You're funny.

Yeah that dude was a parrot because I explained that for the Terry you only need 2 and that I do it regularly. They repeated that you need 3. I left it at that. 

The person who "asked" wasn't trying to offer advice, because they weren't experienced in the first place. I did something that they couldn't understand based on what they were told "don't pop the joint until the lure is charged and in place", a good rule of thumb, but in this case it took far less time as they were slow and uncoordinated. Heck a lot of the people I see hunting Terry with good setups seem to think that Oberon/Trinity/Harrow would make a world of difference.

And yes I do often ask for advice/or the build whenever I run into a player who is playing impressively. One that stands out was a Limbo who people kept bailing on, even though we had a ball because he really knew what he was doing. Another was a Gara. 

As to the assumption that I don't ever try new gear for the job, that would be a great assumption if my mastery points weren't well above my MR. The fact that you're aware that they are, should have suggested that I haven't ever stopped building, leveling and trying out new gear. 

37 minutes ago, Ziser said:

Most seasoned eidolon hunters knows (this is fact) that the vomvalyst spawn at the eidolons is AWFULLY low and slow, you saying that that it spawned "all the voms you could have asked for" is a clear indication that the terry took a while to get down in the eyes of somone experienced. I for one would have gotten a lure and found 3 field spawned vomvas. Charging 4 or 5 lures at same time with field spawned vomvas sounds dumb though, im sorry you had to get some high MRs from the less experienced side.

On the other hand, same argument can be used for lower MR players vs higher MR players, i seen my fair share of lower MRs in pubs that dosnt even know how to charge lures to begin with and their number FAR outnumbers the higher MRs.

MR is a flawed but valid metric to measure experience and knowledge, in terms of personel skill and ability to learn, take in new experience and knowledge however does not care what MR you are.

Yes, I really did take my sweet time taking down the first shield because by the time I got out the gate there were already 3 lures in play. No Alt-Fire at all. I was avoiding shooting the voms where possible, but none of them were charged by the time I got ticked off and shot the joint. One was eventually charged by the time I got the second shield down. I considered going for one myself, but there were 3 of them, in hunt-appropriate gear I kept thinking "any second now... Any second now.. Ok wtf.. Shield's down... Surely they see the cores lighting up over here.. Any second now... What on earth is going on... Any second... Bah forget these losers I'm doing this, they can fetch the core on the way back"

Other times I've loaded in, grabbed the lures and headed to Terry directly, with others joining the hunt after the fact. The other day I realised that I was getting surrounded by more and more uncharted lures while mine was only partially charged. I told them too many lures. I kid you not there were 6 uncharged lures, and when I asked why they each brought so many when the indicators would have shown that we didn't need them and explained that it makes it harder to get a full charge on any, one idiot called me a n00b for not charging mine. Mind you, none got charged until just before the second joint and that's only because I rushed out with one of mine to charge it. 

The only thing that MR measures is how many of the tests you've done. 

45 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Must've been fun getting yelled at for making the eidolon teleport because you couldn't wait for a lure xd but being lower MR u can't be blamed for not knowing that happens

Now for the actual point,  I'd rather take my chance with MR20+ because I'll have a 92% chance that the person will already know what to do perfectly without me even checking his profile. 

You have no idea how slooooow this lot was. When I saw the first lure turn blue I switched to Alt-fire and had the second shield down just after the lure arrived. 

And I usually check the loadout instead. It tells me who's in the wrong gear, and 9 times out of 10 it's a better indicator of how the hunt will go. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Why are guys bickering? New and old player experience both need work. There are no excuses to abandon decency. 

[stormy505]

41 minutes ago, Ziser said:

DE themself never got to the point that most seasoned players is at simply because they do not put same amount of time playing the game, thats why its essential to listen to your experienced, seasoned veteran players.

it kinda makes sense why they would listen to casual players more than vets. just because of the sheer number difference. if we use achievement completion data then we can see that only a little over 2% of the player base has killed Terry, realistically speaking, the % of people who have done a tridolon is probably somewhere in the .006~% of the playerbase. and even less then that are those who can stomach endurance runs. realistically speaking. I doubt the number of people who have gone over 3 hours in an endless mission even breaks four digits. and if you think about it that way, newer and casual players bring in a much larger portion of the income and should be aimed at for future content from a business perspective.

EDIT: just found out something about the data above. you could increase all of the numbers above because I'm pretty sure steam only takes into account achievement completion data from people who use the steam launcher, (not 100% sure.) but this would explain why the achievement "agent: solve a cipher." only has 63.6% completion rate.

Edited May 6, 2019 by stormy505

[Midas]

1 minute ago, stormy505 said:

it kinda makes sense why they would listen to casual players more than vets. just because of the sheer number difference. if we use achievement completion data then we can see that only a little over 2% of the player base has killed Terry, realistically speaking, the % of people who have done a tridolon is probably somewhere in the .006~% of the playerbase. and even less then that are those who can stomach endurance runs. realistically speaking. I doubt the number of people who have gone over 3 hours in an endless mission even breaks four digits. and if you think about it that way, newer and casual players bring in a much larger portion of the income and should be aimed at for future content from a business perspective.

Thats... depressing.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

1 minute ago, Midas said:

Thats... depressing.

 

3 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

it kinda makes sense why they would listen to casual players more than vets. just because of the sheer number difference. if we use achievement completion data then we can see that only a little over 2% of the player base has killed Terry, realistically speaking, the % of people who have done a tridolon is probably somewhere in the .006~% of the playerbase. and even less then that are those who can stomach endurance runs. realistically speaking. I doubt the number of people who have gone over 3 hours in an endless mission even breaks four digits. and if you think about it that way, newer and casual players bring in a much larger portion of the income and should be aimed at for future content from a business perspective.

Think of it like this: DE does have a parent company (if that's the right term). They need to make enough money so that the parent company won't take away the creative freedom. So thats one factor that likely plays into this.

[IntheCoconut]

45 minutes ago, Ziser said:

*Sound of toaster blowing up in distance*

When you equip weapons to rank them up you usually try them out at the same time, theres no reason not to, thats litrally how you find gear you like outside of reading and listening to other players opinions on gear. Anyone equipping a new weapon and not touching it at all just to remove it once it hits 30 is imo playing a game wrong, i call those players casuals and IMO casual players voided their opinions on lategame and diffculty as valid since they dont even want to try or take part of all the content the creators made for us.

If DE felt that the current mastery system was to actually demonstrate mastery, then it would work differently, and all they'd have to do is change one thing: Make it so that you only gain experience by actively using your gear. But instead they have a system that rewards you, gives you experience, and levels you up without even needing to use the gear you have equipped. They've continued to build upon the current system by implementing Sanctuary Onslaught where players can passively level up 3 or more pieces of gear just for completing one full rotation.

The closest thing we'll have to a "mastery" system is when/if DE decided to implement truly merit based rewards. If you had to complete 100 Eidolon captures to get the Eidolon Ephimera, then yes, I'd say it is reasonable to assume (much more than the current MR system) that you have obtained some knowledge and mastery of how to most efficiently fight Eidolons.

I still understand the futility of arguing this point though, because at the end of the day, how much does mastery truly matter in a game like Warframe? There isn't anything in the game that can't be completed solo. So what does it matter if you have two or three ammeter teammates if you're playing a Chroma that can single handedly one-shot limbs?

If you got to MR 27 by studying each weapon along the way, that's great, and I think it is admirable that you took the time to do it. But just because you did it that way, I don't think its safe to assume that all or even a majority of players do because it isn't required. By MR 10-16 I feel like most players have already found the weapons, set up, and frames that they prefer, and learning the ins and outs of weapons that they are just going to delete upon reaching level 30 with doesn't serve them much purpose. Not saying its smart, not saying its a good way to play, but I think that's the way the game encourages you to play.

Edited May 6, 2019 by IntheCoconut

[Midas]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

 

Think of it like this: DE does have a parent company (if that's the right term). They need to make enough money so that the parent company won't take away the creative freedom. So thats one factor that likely plays into this.

We talked about that a few days ago. It is certainly a thing.

[Ziser]

2 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

it kinda makes sense why they would listen to casual players more than vets. just because of the sheer number difference. if we use achievement completion data then we can see that only a little over 2% of the player base has killed Terry, realistically speaking, the % of people who have done a tridolon is probably somewhere in the .006~% of the playerbase. and even less then that are those who can stomach endurance runs. realistically speaking. I doubt the number of people who have gone over 3 hours in an endless mission even breaks four digits. and if you think about it that way, newer and casual players bring in a much larger portion of the income and should be aimed at for future content from a business perspective.

Look up the definition to what makes a player a casual in todays terms. Somone who does not want to try new things, invest time or put effort in the game is somone that should have their opinions seen as serious. You start listening to them and you turn your back on games who invest their time and soul in the game because they love it, that spells doom for the games survival and evolution. That is as Midas said

1 minute ago, Midas said:

Thats... depressing.

 

[Midas]

12 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

it kinda makes sense why they would listen to casual players more than vets. just because of the sheer number difference. if we use achievement completion data then we can see that only a little over 2% of the player base has killed Terry, realistically speaking, the % of people who have done a tridolon is probably somewhere in the .006~% of the playerbase. and even less then that are those who can stomach endurance runs. realistically speaking. I doubt the number of people who have gone over 3 hours in an endless mission even breaks four digits. and if you think about it that way, newer and casual players bring in a much larger portion of the income and should be aimed at for future content from a business perspective.

What I am getting from this is basically new players join and leave and thats what they are catering to. I have seen this many times while trying to run a clan over the past years... So it certainly is a thing. Most of my permanent clanmates are from trial times... It is very hard to introduce new people into the social environment of warframe (our clan) simply because we have no trials or endgame content besides arbitrations. Eventually we all get kind of bored of it. When trials drop in the summer we'll start by taking a pug each day with us and involving him in our clan's trial runs like we did before.. But as of now the above quote reflects the current state of "new" players in warframe.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Midas

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Youve lost all credibility in regards to that mission for multiple reasons.
1. You stated you went public
2. You are telling us 2 of the frames in the Hunt were Gara and Limbo, which makes it pretty clear that atleast those 2 werent there for the Hunt but for other bounties.
3. ''It was slow'' Yea no Shet it was slow, why do you think the Meta exists?

You want a fast hunt? First of all go Premade, then bjitch to us that the High MRs were bad. You cant because its not public.
Secondly if youre still determined to go Public, Bring Chroma or Rhino and expect to do it solo.

Pub Eidolons are a bad example to show high MRs being bad.

 

1) You need to work on your reading skills. 

2) I don't need to recruit for Terry hunts. Do you? 

3) The frames in that match weren't gara and limbo, those are two of the players that I asked for advice in the past. IIRC gara and limbo are two frames that are acknowledged to be viable for solo hunting. You may want to consider that solo hunts have a different meta for obvious reasons, but your lack of knowledge in this case, has lost you significant credibility. 

4) The 3 of them had gear that adhered to the tridolon hunting meta.

5) it was painfully slow because the three players in hunting meta gear were fooling around with more lures than needed, when a single lure or even two at the eidolon would have been charged much faster, and because I was foolish enough to think that higher ranked players in all the right gear would have had a handle on things. 

Had they been in the wrong gear, or not had the lures by the time I got in, I would have picked one up and gotten it done myself, the way I normally do in public hunts. 

 

Other than all of that, yes, I went in a rhino, expecting to carry if needed. You got any other valid advice? 🙄

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

4 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

it kinda makes sense why they would listen to casual players more than vets. just because of the sheer number difference. if we use achievement completion data then we can see that only a little over 2% of the player base has killed Terry, realistically speaking, the % of people who have done a tridolon is probably somewhere in the .006~% of the playerbase. and even less then that are those who can stomach endurance runs. realistically speaking. I doubt the number of people who have gone over 3 hours in an endless mission even breaks four digits. and if you think about it that way, newer and casual players bring in a much larger portion of the income and should be aimed at for future content from a business perspective.

Few posts back i said its ending up like a mobile game because theyre chasing proffit instead of trust like they used.

I remember when DE was in their Prime. The time they added something which was basically a slot machine for kubrow colors and Steve said ''uh oh we dont want that'' and simply removed it.
Nowadays im sad to say that i doubt DE would do the same, and its not entirely their fault let me explain.

DE is tied down by their ''Chinese overlords'', the reason i keep making this joke is because its sadly true, They are forced to pander to their Chinese share holders. which means to do any significant change that would make warframe great again would mean losing proffits and potentially lose their income. 

That is why im hopeless in the game ever being the greatness we want it to be, and how it once was.

[Syndrella]

The high level here means the starchart. The endless missions not supposed to be the base of scaling so those missions can outrun if you play enough. Normal players can die at level 30-35-50 even on 60 by one shot if a heavy unit does it. With not highly modded gear an avarege player can feel difficult these levels but those whom finished quests, got good gear and just play enough have the needed experience to avoid dying. 

[Midas]

2 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Chuckles said:

Few posts back i said its ending up like a mobile game because theyre chasing proffit instead of trust like they used.

I remember when DE was in their Prime. The time they added something which was basically a slot machine for kubrow colors and Steve said ''uh oh we dont want that'' and simply removed it.
Nowadays im sad to say that i doubt DE would do the same, and its not entirely their fault let me explain.

DE is tied down by their ''Chinese overlords'', the reason i keep making this joke is because its sadly true, They are forced to pander to their Chinese share holders. which means to do any significant change that would make warframe great again would mean losing proffits and potentially lose their income. 

That is why im hopeless in the game ever being the greatness we want it to be, and how it once was.

I know multiple (10+) people who have spent over 2000 on cosmetics in this game, from reading a simple reddit thread (you'd be surprised how much money people drop). If you cater to both new and endgame players I guarantee their player base will grow massively (MORE ACTIVE PLAYERS = MORE PROFIT). Also they will certainly meet their daily player requirements (play for a good 2-3 hours) if trials are reintroduced or endgame content we can sink our teeth into for hours. It is all possible by taking different routes.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Midas

[Ziser]

2 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

If you got to MR 27 by studying each weapon along the way, that's great, and I think it is admirable that you took the time to do it. But just because you did it that way, I don't think its safe to assume that all or even a majority of players do because it isn't required. By MR 10-16 I feel like most players have already found the weapons, set up, and frames that they prefer, and learning the ins and outs of weapons that they are just going to delete upon reaching level 30 with doesn't serve them much purpose. Not saying its smart, not saying its a good way to play, but I think that's they way the game encourages you to play.

It shames me that i have missed multiply weapons that i wish i would have tried out more but yes, i mostly done just that. My opinion is flawed though since i started back in may 2013 and had plenty of time to test gear and new gear compared to somone who started a later and wants MR fast so they can relate and resorts to rushing gear. I always tell people that the worst they can do is rush the game. You dont delete weapons you end up liking if you try them, atleast i hope people dont, and even if they do, if they like it they most likely get experience on it and know what it is when people refer to it, thats experience in its own.

[Midas]

1 minute ago, Ziser said:

It shames me that i have missed multiply weapons that i wish i would have tried out more but yes, i mostly done just that. My opinion is flawed though since i started back in may 2013 and had plenty of time to test gear and new gear compared to somone who started a later and wants MR fast so they can relate and resorts to rushing gear. I always tell people that the worst they can do is rush the game. You dont delete weapons you end up liking if you try them, atleast i hope people dont, and even if they do, if they like it they most likely get experience on it and know what it is when people refer to it, thats experience in its own.

damage functioned differently then, even if you tested it, it would still change.

[IntheCoconut]

1 minute ago, Ziser said:

It shames me that i have missed multiply weapons that i wish i would have tried out more but yes, i mostly done just that. My opinion is flawed though since i started back in may 2013 and had plenty of time to test gear and new gear compared to somone who started a later and wants MR fast so they can relate and resorts to rushing gear. I always tell people that the worst they can do is rush the game. You dont delete weapons you end up liking if you try them, atleast i hope people dont, and even if they do, if they like it they most likely get experience on it and know what it is when people refer to it, thats experience in its own.

I'm certainly guilty of it. I rushed to MR 13 without paying attention to the weapons I was using. I've since slowed down and deliberatly pick my weapons to level and play around with. I've even gone back to recraft weapons I already mastered because my initial reaction as a new player was "welp, your level 30 now, so I don't need you any more *delete*". And I think some of that is certainly my fault, but I think the game does a poor job of correctly conveying the nature and philosophy behind mastery ranks. I'd love it if the game encouraged you to slow down and actually learn weapons and frames, but instead you have a system that ties daily standing behind MR level which to me, conveys the message of "hurry up and level your MR so that you can increase your daily standing cap".

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

20 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

I still understand the futility of arguing this point though, because at the end of the day, how much does mastery truly matter in a game like Warframe? There isn't anything in the game that can't be completed solo. So what does it matter if you have two or three ammeter teammates if you're playing a Chroma that can single handedly one-shot limbs?

How many times do we have to say this. We are talking about SQUAD PLAY we know everything can be done solo and that was never the point. Things are faster and more efficient in Squads...
which brings us back to recruiting...
which brings us back to looking at MR to recruit.

[Ziser]

10 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

I'm certainly guilty of it. I rushed to MR 13 without paying attention to the weapons I was using. I've since slowed down and deliberatly pick my weapons to level and play around with. I've even gone back to recraft weapons I already mastered because my initial reaction as a new player was "welp, your level 30 now, so I don't need you any more *delete*". And I think some of that is certainly my fault, but I think the game does a poor job of correctly conveying the nature and philosophy behind mastery ranks. I'd love it if the game encouraged you to slow down and actually learn weapons and frames, but instead you have a system that ties daily standing behind MR level which to me, conveys the message of "hurry up and level your MR so that you can increase your daily standing cap".

Yea, i recrafted loads of weapons i removed during the years too, you start out with 2 warframe slots and 10 (no idea if its 10 or more) weaponslots which is WAY too low. The daily standing caps are there to make sure experienced players dont steamroll through the content within the first hours, sadly they punish newer players and those that do not spent a lot of hours a day to play the game, imo the daily standing caps are a flawed system.

You can enter players profile and check their equipment stats, usage time and kills done on weapons aswell as exp made is a good indicator showing if they actually used gear or just AFK farmed their mr.

 

[Hi_Im_Chuckles]

18 minutes ago, Midas said:

damage functioned differently then, even if you tested it, it would still change.

It aint just that, i dont know about you lot, but i used to delete a weapon before even maxing it because i didnt like it or wanted space for a new one
i wasnt comfortable with spending money on the game yet then, and new players then and even now by far dont have enough warframe or weapon slots.