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Violet_Xe

"Overheated" Ember Rework Concept

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Meh, she is a farm frame.  No one uses her to do any of the cool stuff in WF and that's fine.  In a game about farming frames that excel at farming are needed.  Just give her range back and give WOF and loot boosting augment.  

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35 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Issue with Ember is completely with nerfing of her range because her survivability was dependent on CC that World on Fire provided. Nerfing energy is also a big deal since she's now more limited in builds thanks to it, but whatever I guess. Heat damage literally has nothing to do with it. To make matters worse, the overheat on WoF completely misses the mark. It buffs damage and reduces range which is HARD NERF because even if you use mods to reach the same range, you get hard nerf on status chance Fire proc. And obviously Firequake build is much much worse now.

Seriously, if DE wanted to nerf Ember's frustration in low levels to her team they could've just made WoF be LINE OF SIGHT. Which, actually, would've been a huge buff to her in higher level missions since her CC would be more reliable.

 

Seriously, the problems with Ember are all very simple. It's not freaking fire issue at all.

She was meant to be a damage frame so heat damage has pretty much everything to do with it. As for the survivability, i'm giving her a way to survive while her range is at 50%. Also how am I nerfing the range? baseline I increased the lvl 30 WoF range from 15 to 18, which is a buff. This means WoF builds can reach further than before even if it's a tiny amount. I've also given you a way to increase the range of WoF by standing within the Fire Blast. Plus WoF would gain an EXTRA 20m ontop of her baseline range. this lets her range hit up to 30ish meters away while standing inside of the blast zone. I've also made the shrink time duration based, so you can make the energy drain and range shrinking happen over a longer period of time via Duration. I don't understand how Firequake would be worse from this to be honest? could you clarify please?

With the reduced range, ember has some issue killing lower levels as she needs to get closer, but in higher levels you can play more tacticlly in order to survive and have a larger map control. both players get what they want with a compromise on both ends. DE get's their halved range, and in exchange we get a massive area for WoF to hit.

Lastly I didn't really nerf her energy at all. Yes she consumes more energy with this, but she only starts eating more energy than she normally would at around 100% overheat. I cut her passive energy regeneration in half because of the overheat effectively making her always on fire and let's you not have a weapon dedicated to lighting yourself on fire. This means if you're running low on energyu, shut off WoF, and regen 5-6 energy a second. heck maybe even up to 12 if you've got naramon on. On accelerant as well you would be casting onto a large amount of enemies increasing the chances they will drop energy orbs that give you more energy than normal and work with mods.

Ember's issue is fire, because fire is her source of damage, and she's a damage frame who can't do damage. You have ember who can do 600 to 1000 damage against 2-3 enemies every second with her WoF, then Saryn's over there nuking maps with 5k dps spores on 30 people at once. AND Saryn can strip armor and half enemy health. Yes saryn needs a nerf, but if you think that's an unfair comparison, it really isn't. They're both status, dps, and aoe warframes with very similar abilities. If you still want to deny that then I'll compare her to say nezha. I've ran kuva survival with several embers, by the time they extract i'm running with nezha and I've got over 10-20% damage over them. If ember is a dps warframe and she can be outdone by a tank/damage hybrid who's capable of decent cc, then something's wrong. And i'm only running around with a melee. Damage is the issue. Ember and saryn should be at each other's throats for damage, or at least the master of fire should be doing more damage than a nezha who uses the same damage type as ember. By the way nezha can also make enemies vulnerable, ember can't. nezha can heal the team, deal more damage with the same damage type, survive for longer, and can regenerate energy faster and better than ember, while also being capable of ccing and applying vulnerability for your team. By the way, so can Saryn.
What about volt, another elemental warframe. he can take damage like no tomorrow, is an eidolon hunter, can pick up his damage reduction and apply it anywhere on the map, ccs for much much longer with more reliability than ember's WoF, can provide extra speed for the team, and can regenerate energy. While volt isn't a dps frame, he is a heavy single target hitter with his electric shield.

yes she doesn't need this rework, giving her the range back would suffice, but why settle for that when you can get something better?

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12 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

TL;DR 

Ember is currently complete cheeks and needs a complete rework including her awful passive and the pathetic state of flame damage. 

Staright butt cheeks lmfao.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

She was meant to be a damage frame so heat damage has pretty much everything to do with it. As for the survivability, i'm giving her a way to survive while her range is at 50%. Also how am I nerfing the range? baseline I increased the lvl 30 WoF range from 15 to 18, which is a buff. This means WoF builds can reach further than before even if it's a tiny amount. I've also given you a way to increase the range of WoF by standing within the Fire Blast. Plus WoF would gain an EXTRA 20m ontop of her baseline range. this lets her range hit up to 30ish meters away while standing inside of the blast zone. I've also made the shrink time duration based, so you can make the energy drain and range shrinking happen over a longer period of time via Duration. I don't understand how Firequake would be worse from this to be honest? could you clarify please?

With the reduced range, ember has some issue killing lower levels as she needs to get closer, but in higher levels you can play more tacticlly in order to survive and have a larger map control. both players get what they want with a compromise on both ends. DE get's their halved range, and in exchange we get a massive area for WoF to hit.

 Lastly I didn't really nerf her energy at all. Yes she consumes more energy with this, but she only starts eating more energy than she normally would at around 100% overheat. I cut her passive energy regeneration in half because of the overheat effectively making her always on fire and let's you not have a weapon dedicated to lighting yourself on fire. This means if you're running low on energyu, shut off WoF, and regen 5-6 energy a second. heck maybe even up to 12 if you've got naramon on. On accelerant as well you would be casting onto a large amount of enemies increasing the chances they will drop energy orbs that give you more energy than normal and work with mods.

 Ember's issue is fire, because fire is her source of damage, and she's a damage frame who can't do damage. You have ember who can do 600 to 1000 damage against 2-3 enemies every second with her WoF, then Saryn's over there nuking maps with 5k dps spores on 30 people at once. AND Saryn can strip armor and half enemy health. Yes saryn needs a nerf, but if you think that's an unfair comparison, it really isn't. They're both status, dps, and aoe warframes with very similar abilities. If you still want to deny that then I'll compare her to say nezha. I've ran kuva survival with several embers, by the time they extract i'm running with nezha and I've got over 10-20% damage over them. If ember is a dps warframe and she can be outdone by a tank/damage hybrid who's capable of decent cc, then something's wrong. And i'm only running around with a melee. Damage is the issue. Ember and saryn should be at each other's throats for damage, or at least the master of fire should be doing more damage than a nezha who uses the same damage type as ember. By the way nezha can also make enemies vulnerable, ember can't. nezha can heal the team, deal more damage with the same damage type, survive for longer, and can regenerate energy faster and better than ember, while also being capable of ccing and applying vulnerability for your team. By the way, so can Saryn.
What about volt, another elemental warframe. he can take damage like no tomorrow, is an eidolon hunter, can pick up his damage reduction and apply it anywhere on the map, ccs for much much longer with more reliability than ember's WoF, can provide extra speed for the team, and can regenerate energy. While volt isn't a dps frame, he is a heavy single target hitter with his electric shield.

yes she doesn't need this rework, giving her the range back would suffice, but why settle for that when you can get something better?

"Yes, let's design a frame only for lower levels."

She was just fine in higher levels until DE wanted to nerf her for lower missions and completely missed the mark. That's what I was talking about, not your ideas.

 

But I did quickly read your OP just now and I hate all of it. That would be incredibly annoying to play. And seriously, nerfing weapon damage? Self damage? Suicide? Jesus. Complete crap IMO. I mean I can give proper feedback to it later when I have time, but that's that for now.

 

And yeah, Fire is not the issue. Fire is great. She's a nuker for lower missions, CC machine and damage buffer for higher levels. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited by zoffmode

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

"Yes, let's design a frame only for lower levels."

She was just fine in higher levels until DE wanted to nerf her for lower missions and completely missed the mark. That's what I was talking about, not your ideas.

 

But I did quickly read your OP just now and I hate all of it. That would be incredibly annoying to play. And seriously, nerfing weapon damage? Self damage? Suicide? Jesus. Complete crap IMO. I mean I can give proper feedback to it later when I have time, but that's that for now.

 

And yeah, Fire is not the issue. Fire is great. She's a nuker for lower missions, CC machine and damage buffer for higher levels. Nothing wrong with that.

Well self damage isn't unheard of in warframe. Inaros, Garuda, Nekros, Chroma for eidolon hunts, Harrow, Valkyr, Hildryn, they all hurt themselves to do something. Suicide is to give players a panic button, obviously nobody wants to die, so i give you 20 seconds to lower it down to below 100. easy. Plus ember plays with fire, which nobody should ever do so i wanted to add risk. that's the reason why self damage and meltdown are a thing in this concept. You can super buff yourself for 20 seconds and lower the overheat.

As for the nerfing weapons, no I nerfed critical chance by 15%, which is ONLY at 100% overheat. Chances are players who are at 100% overheat play with arcanes and have a large variety of mods to compensate, and would be running status builds on a status frame. 

Care to explain to us why fire is so amazing? because as far as I can tell it's just toxin but for infested, then prevents you from killing corpus.

That being said I would love to hear your feedback when you get around to it 🙂. Looking forward to improving it. However I am going to add a few more things to the rework now based off current feedback.

Edited by Violet_Xe

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