Ember is the new Mag, and that's unacceptable

[Blexander]

I've been playing Ember since 2014, she's the first frame I set my sights on when I first started playing. The nerf she's received is still something I don't understand. When I try to rationalize it, it makes no sense.

1. Her damage?

Not that great tbh. You can have ~2k damage per hit (at the cost of efficiency/duration). Considering all she can deal is Heat damage, that's pretty ok for a non-nuke frame, since it's only effective against flesh and infested (which is already weak almost everything else under the sun by 25%+). The increasing cost/damage over time is a welcome change.

2. Her range?

There was no reason half her range at 100% charge. Her range wasn't even near the amount of range Equinox and Saryn have currently. The 4th ability is something akin to an "Ultimate". Gimping the range to the point Vacuum has a longer reach is outright insanity. Her range should've remained untouched. Maximization isn't a thing anymore. Back when it was 

3. She was OP because she can press 4 and AFK?

Not even close. Ember was AVERAGE. If you mean that with 100% status proc chance and/or Firequake that she can effectively halt any and all enemies in the range, you're objectively wrong. If you say "they've made her into a CC frame and that's good thing", you're wrong again. The state of the game has evolved into damage taking center stage. CC has become nearly obsolete, and, let's be fair, how can she utilize the CC on her ult (Firequake) if her range gets halved, as well as the stun on Accelerant lasting 2 seconds?

 

An idea I had for how the 4th ability could be changed:

Turn the ability into a charging ability like the 1st one. This way, you can choose to spend more energy to have the ability do more DoT while keeping the drain normal, or, having the ability be like it is, but removing the range reduction over time.

I refuse to believe the only viable way to play her is to just use 2+Ignis.

[Infirito]

I'll just remind you here about the recent Nyx "rework". Do not expect anything to change for the better.

[AlphaPHENIX]

After Vauban (you can charge the balls now...and that's all!), Zephyr (#*!%ing Air Burst and longer cast time on Turbulance), Mag (double killing Shield Polarize by first, making it not instant and second, changing the augment), I do not trust DE with reworks...or nearly anything for that matter.

[Blexander]

Pablo has had a good track record of fixing mistake (Nezha as an example). All I can hope for is a miracle. I mean, it's not hard making her viable for an active playstyle. I get that DE doesn't want to have abilities that you turn on and forget about, but there's no benefit to turning 4 off and on aside from reseting the energy drain, which also rests the damage boost. It feels so counterproductive having her be like this.

[THeMooN85]

Ember? Who is Ember?

I forgot who she is long before she got nerf. She's useless above lv 40.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Ember's main issues are fire damage being total buns, lack of survivability (CC, self sustain, etc), and a passive so bad even Zephyr feels pity for her.

[Infirito]

3 hours ago, Blexander said:

I get that DE doesn't want to have abilities that you turn on and forget about,

Not sure this is the case, tbh. I pretty much afk-farm Xini with my max efficiency Banshee, just have to reset her 4 every 2 min to avoid the penalty. DE did nothing about it when they fiddled with Banshee in the past, so why criple Ember?

[(PSN)jenny_shinu]

what's wrong with mag? 😤

[Elon-Chan]

Il y a 4 heures, (XB1)Thy Divinity a dit :

and a passive so bad even Zephyr feels pity for her.

To be fair zephyr's passive isn't bad , it's pretty useful in conclave (despite knowing that's a very small part of the community 😭) and has a couple uses for speed running : ). 
However I do understand your point that ember's passive is pretty useless in every situation 
 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Ok, Ember has been pretty consistently terrible for most of the game's history aside from low level speed runs.

You're using Mag as a standard of comparison, suggesting Mag is terrible but you think it would be ok for Mag to be terrible as long as Ember is not? That's confusing. 

It's not about being overpowered. DE has made it clear they don't care about balance as much any more. What they do care about is that she was just lazy trash, which is why they made the change. They did it completely wrong, but that was the reason. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by (PS4)Ozymandias-13-

[XaoGarrent]

Ember is not the new Mag.

That would imply Mag was ever this bad.

[Chipputer]

If Ember is the new Mag then that means she's actually not bad and people are just saying she is because they heard someone else say she was. Meanwhile the people who understand her are just loving all the buffs she's getting because the community doesn't understand how to use her properly.

Is that what you're implying? Because I don't think that's what you're implying.

[Blexander]

12 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Meanwhile the people who understand her are just loving all the buffs she's getting because the community doesn't understand how to use her properly.

Oh, do tell what sort of buffs she's gotten, and how I'm supposed to use her properly. Because, as I pointed out before, I've been playing her for 4+ years. I know her in and out.

 

Could it be that I'm supposed to use her as a CC frame, when the game's focus has switched to damage dealing, while her CC is one of the worst?

Or am I supposed to build her as a tank, even though she has no survivability or sustain?

Is she supposed to be a support warframe? Considering she has little to no supporting capabilities (even with augment), I doubt that.

A nuke? Not even close.

A DPS? Yes, she's supposed to be a DPS, but when you need to be within Vacuum range to hit anything with your main damage dealing ability... You do the math

 

There are so many ways DE could've redone her kit without gimping an ability to the point of uselessness. Range was never an issue with her 4. If she dealt too much damage, lower that. Hell, the increasing energy/second cost is completely acceptable, but the range nerf is not. Ember as a whole is a problematic frame, the WoF nerf isn't even the worst part about her.

[DroopingPuppy]

At least Mag is playable even before the buff. That is a huge gap between Ember.

[SenorClipClop]

On 2019-05-05 at 6:19 PM, Blexander said:

Ember is the new Mag

Have you played Mag recently? Her damage, range and CC are ridiculously strong.

[LuckyCharm]

Just gonna boop this here... I still use ember a fair bit when im being lazy. Shes never been an endgame frame, thats never been her niche. Theres plenty of others that do that part better. What she did have pre "buff" was the ability to press 4 and run an entire mission without stopping in pretty much any starchart mission which was where the majority of the games content is placed. 

The reason for the range nerf was to satisfy the whiny people claiming they didnt get to do anything cus ember ran ahead killing everything in a 50m radius around her. I think she needed a range decrease.. But not half. 3/4 of what it was maybe. She was killing things through walls and everything. 

[Blexander]

4 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Have you played Mag recently? Her damage, range and CC are ridiculously strong.

I was referring to old Mag. You know, the "Mag"?

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Blexander said:

I was referring to old Mag. You know, the "Mag"?

you mean the mag that used to delete corpus and corrupted at the snap of a finger?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

If they'll bring back overheat shes fine

[Benour]

She got nerfed cause you could turn her 4 at start of mission and just faceroll trough it without ever caring about her energy and just CC everything to death while doing literally nothing just running forward. Same in defense just turn her 4 and afk to victory. 

Her dmg was actually boosted significantly. And yes you have to watch timer on her 4 and just recast when it hits 100% (or you dont with 2x energize btw).

And mag is awesome frame which can scale like crazy in dmg and has strong CC and if you have more than 2 braincells you should know/realise that by now, you 2014 ember main expert... 

[Highresist]

The whole concept of balacing DPS frame abilities should be thrown out of the window, because we have Saryn, Equinox and Mesa. Everything short of that coverage and damage falls flat. I would love to see an Ember rework on par with those 3, because a fire based DPS character is always a good idea.

[DroopingPuppy]

4 hours ago, Benour said:

She got nerfed cause you could turn her 4 at start of mission and just faceroll trough it without ever caring about her energy and just CC everything to death while doing literally nothing just running forward. Same in defense just turn her 4 and afk to victory. 

Her dmg was actually boosted significantly. And yes you have to watch timer on her 4 and just recast when it hits 100% (or you dont with 2x energize btw).

And mag is awesome frame which can scale like crazy in dmg and has strong CC and if you have more than 2 braincells you should know/realise that by now, you 2014 ember main expert... 

It is actually nerfed to 'no damage' actually, for it is a sucidial attempt to actually let the enemy close enough to burn it by WoF.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

If Ember could hold a candle to mag, I might actually play her once in a while.  New mag, old mag - doesn't matter.

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I'll be honest, I don`t like ember coz of the way ppl played her. I'm I glad she got nerfed? YES, do I want her to get a better re-visit? yes, my only issue is that it hasn't been a year and they are looking at her again while other frames take over that to be looked at. Also if DE would have listened to feedback on Vauban the 1st time they wouldn`t be wasting time looking at him again. Even though this is an unpopular opinion, I think Ash`s bs needs to be looked at again in terms of ability activation, If DE can improve Ember`s 4th ability, they can do the same thing to Ash`s bs.

[Nomasto]

But Mag is crrently very strong. 🤔