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Ember is the new Mag, and that's unacceptable


Blexander
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it just blows my mind how much salt surrounds ember. she works on star chart where the game is being balanced. asking for all frames to exceed high lvl will further trivialize star chart where they are trying to keep people. the only reasons people can even survive easier in high lvl is because of power creep plain and simple.

she works even past lvl 130 which is fair imo going further is just for luls.

heat damage not being strong against armor is not an ember issue at all, its a damage system issue. heat is weak only to proto shields and any damage that is not true damage, toxin, viral, corrosive, and radiation is reduced against armor.

people are acting like WoF range nerf is such a big deal when it isnt. she was killing enemies before anyone could see them and almost at no cost. the range nerf was justified.

she does need a new passive which all of us can agree on, but unless DE decides to finally rework the damage system no amount of changes will work because heat breaks on the wall called armor.

i personally like her skill set, but people want her to be something she isnt.all this talk of "well there are frames with CC that can do better" yeah. there are frames with CC that can do better than the ones people claim can do better. with so many frames overlap is an inevitability, and there is already so much overlap, DPS no matter how you slice it is DPS wether you do it with gara, khora, mesa, saryn, etc. guess what? mesa does better DPS than saryn in some situation, saryn does better DPS, than mesa in others, they both do more DPS than the majority of DPS frames (again so much overlap its stupid).

Edited by EinheriarJudith
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20 minutes ago, (PS4)skull73166 said:

I do believe the op is referring to mag when she was at her worst, not how she currently is, when they say ember is the new mag. 

there was a mag at her worst? this is whats confusing people she was never at a worst state.

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Il y a 22 heures, EinheriarJudith a dit :

she does need a new passive which all of us can agree on, but unless DE decides to finally rework the damage system no amount of changes will work because heat breaks on the wall called armor.

Napalm Penta is making her passive quite strong tbh, really situational since you need specific weapons but low self fire damage is perfect to help her increase her damage and energy regen. A better passive would be nice but at least we can find a way to make a proper use of the current one !

Concerning OP Ember is far from being that bad, only people who like to spam 4th all day long still have some issues with her. And let be honest complaining about Ember being stronger with fire dealing weapon only is beyong ridiculous - Ember is a fire frame, players have to deal with it. Accelerant is mandatory and tbh once armor scaling will be fixed, i'm pretty sure we'll see plenty Ember everywhere.

Still a dull complaining thread, the upteenth "damage is meh" isn't an argument, it's not even a feedback since one could also argue OP doesn't have a clue about how to build and play her.

Plus Mag is awesome, perhaps one the best frame around, for the sake of objectivity.

Edited by 000l000
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On 2019-05-07 at 1:49 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I'll be honest, I don`t like ember coz of the way ppl played her. I'm I glad she got nerfed? YES, do I want her to get a better re-visit? yes, my only issue is that it hasn't been a year and they are looking at her again while other frames take over that to be looked at. Also if DE would have listened to feedback on Vauban the 1st time they wouldn`t be wasting time looking at him again. Even though this is an unpopular opinion, I think Ash`s bs needs to be looked at again in terms of ability activation, If DE can improve Ember`s 4th ability, they can do the same thing to Ash`s bs.

Mate, if DE reworked Ember's kit to be exactly as awkward as Ash's while also being exactly as powerful in terms of both damage output and survivability, that would be beyond amazing. I would love it. It would be a very, very long time until I had a harsh word to say about DE's development style again.

 

Aside from that, if DE had actually frigging listened to any feedback other than "wah, wah, nerf Ember!" then this mess would not have arisen. As a general suggestion, reworking a 'frame in order to please the people who don't play that 'frame is complete clowncar nonsense.

 

Also, DE, please take a good long hard look at all the justifications you put forward for having Ember's kit the way it is now, and then look at: Equinox. Octavia. Saryn. Mesa. Look at sustainability of kit, survivability options of kit, damage output of kit, and ease of use of kit. 

 

This is genuinely weird, DE, and the easiest conclusion to reach is that for some strange reason, the dev team just doesn't like Ember.

 

 

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Hi,

In my first few months of playing, I have built 2 frames, Frost and EMBER along with my starter MAG. I have forma'd them a couple or 3 times, and re-maxed them.

During this time, I have favored MAG heavily, In direct contradiction of your thread, MAG is far better than EMBER, she is quite OP, if used correctly. 

EMBER obviously doesnot have endurance of frost, but I like her due to her quick feet, and 3 rd ability. EMBER is not bad at all too, in my opinion, although not very useful too due to very less self buff. MAG has two ways to get back her shield. also CRUSH (4th of MAG) is far far powerful than world on fire (4th of EMBER) . I also find the mechanics of CRUSH is better than world on fire.

SO in summary and in my personal opinion, and choice,  MAG is far better than EMBER, quite able to handle endgame. EMBER, though can deal damage, is of low endurance, due to less self buff, and underwhelming 4th. 

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You know it's funny how many people are defending a frame like ember in her current state. She does jack S#&$e to high level enemies and her main damage dealing ability loses its range after a few seconds and she has no durability to risk getting so close to things that can instagib her. Then you also consider the fact they "Buffed" her fireball/Blast but adding fire damage is the biggest appeal to either of these buffs. Add it all together and you have an AWFUL frame foe anything but Low/Mid level content that still does the thing she was supposedly nerfed for.

Here's an idea to rework her and make her better, make fire damage scale and restore WoF to it's former glory so she compares to the other DPS somewhat. Remove fireball and bring back Overheat so she has some form of damage reduction similar to Mesa's shatter shield and a passive form of CC to effect those enemies who get through her WoF. It's messed up how so many people are against making Ember actually viable in late game with the guise of "SHES FINE! YOUR JUST PLAYING HER WRONG" when she really is one of the worth Warframes currently. I see more mags in mission then ember by far now and it used to be the opposite so this claim is absolutely true. Even if you don't want WoF to exist you could just give her a more interactive ult as well as my other changes and you have an infinitely better frame more Akin to Mesa but with less range and more raw power.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

You know it's funny how many people are defending a frame like ember in her current state. She does jack S#&$e to high level enemies and her main damage dealing ability loses its range after a few seconds and she has no durability to risk getting so close to things that can instagib her. Then you also consider the fact they "Buffed" her fireball/Blast but adding fire damage is the biggest appeal to either of these buffs. Add it all together and you have an AWFUL frame foe anything but Low/Mid level content that still does the thing she was supposedly nerfed for.

Here's an idea to rework her and make her better, make fire damage scale and restore WoF to it's former glory so she compares to the other DPS somewhat. Remove fireball and bring back Overheat so she has some form of damage reduction similar to Mesa's shatter shield and a passive form of CC to effect those enemies who get through her WoF. It's messed up how so many people are against making Ember actually viable in late game with the guise of "SHES FINE! YOUR JUST PLAYING HER WRONG" when she really is one of the worth Warframes currently. I see more mags in mission then ember by far now and it used to be the opposite so this claim is absolutely true. Even if you don't want WoF to exist you could just give her a more interactive ult as well as my other changes and you have an infinitely better frame more Akin to Mesa but with less range and more raw power.

when DE starts balancing the game around lvls that scaling is broken then the argument "does bad damage at high lvl" will have some relevance. ember's current state as being bad, is blowing the situation out of proportion.

getting close is not an issue for anyone who uses survivability mods. i find that people keep talking about this because they refuse to do so. its not DE problem you dont want to use mods that help you live longer along side the parkour. don't like squish? go play one of the other unkillable tanks/tankier frames. like fire? other options are chroma, and nezha. DE said they dont want her to have DR so you should probably get over it or use adaptation.

and here you are admitting that embers damage issue (which is only an issue when dealing with high armor) is the problem of the damage system so this makes your argument about her current state as being bad less valid. shields have no DR to heat, health has no DR to heat so the only problem heat has is proto shield, and HIGH armor (which as i said is my previous post is not exclusive to heat)

i personally dont like the charge mechanic in this game but i use fireball as quick, and cheap fire panic (CC) . no one is saying ember couldnt be made better with some fixes but the claim that she is bad is hilariously wrong.

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Il y a 5 heures, EinheriarJudith a dit :

getting close is not an issue for anyone who uses survivability mods. i find that people keep talking about this because they refuse to do so. its not DE problem you dont want to use mods that help you live longer along side the parkour. don't like squish? go play one of the other unkillable tanks/tankier frames. like fire? other options are chroma, and nezha. DE said they dont want her to have DR so you should probably get over it or use adaptation.

and here you are admitting that embers damage issue (which is only an issue when dealing with high armor) is the problem of the damage system so this makes your argument about her current state as being bad less valid. shields have no DR to heat, health has no DR to heat so the only problem heat has is proto shield, and HIGH armor (which as i said is my previous post is not exclusive to heat)

Here's how ember is performing against a really high level enemy with fire only. And i'm not even adding corrosive nor any kind of armor stripping to the equation. When it comes to fire damage Ember is as powerful as Banshee without even bothering with aiming at weak points.

First, no survivability issues, enemies are burning, permanently. The heavy gunner wasn't even able to shoot at me so you only need to survive the first shot, which is basically what every single frame is doing anyway.

Second Ember deals a LOT of additional fire damage, she's also buffing her own but also the entire team fire damage (combined or not). For instance my Ember was getting 139% additional fire damage thanks to her accelerant augment plus 50% additional thanks to the ring of fire. On top of that accelerant was buffing the whole damages. 

Ember is dealing ludicrous damages so yeah, players who are complaining don't know nothing about Ember cause complaining is always easier than trying to solve your own issues by yourself. Corpus and Infested are killed in a sec with such a build, only Grineers armor scaling can be an issue but if i can kill a gunner with fire only, can you imagine how long she'd last if my Kavat was able to strip armor, or my Ignis dealing corrosive damages too ? And let be honest a second, most enemies aren't more than level 100, since armor is scaling with levels, anyone at 100 is obliterated with such a build.

And for the last time, Ember is also buffing the entire team, which is non negligible unless one has no friends and prefers to play solo, which is another story.

Edited by 000l000
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2 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

~snip~

hehe you dont need to explain it to me. i know how crazy she can get with heat damage due to buffing heat as hardcore as she does. been loving it with my catchmoon which is way stronger than my ignis wraith.

thank you for the video proof. people need to understand somethings and using words dont always work ^_^.

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il y a 7 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

hehe you dont need to explain it to me. i know how crazy she can get with heat damage due to buffing heat as hardcore as she does. been loving it with my catchmoon which is way stronger than my ignis wraith.

thank you for the video proof. people need to understand somethings and using words dont always work ^_^.

Well i was replying indirectly. Excuse me for arguing through you though, i hope it didn't hurt !

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1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

Here's how ember is performing against a really high level enemy with fire only. And i'm not even adding corrosive nor any kind of armor stripping to the equation. When it comes to fire damage Ember is as powerful as Banshee without even bothering with aiming at weak points.

First, no survivability issues, enemies are burning, permanently. The heavy gunner wasn't even able to shoot at me so you only need to survive the first shot, which is basically what every single frame is doing anyway.

Second Ember deals a LOT of additional fire damage, she's also buffing her own but also the entire team fire damage (combined or not). For instance my Ember was getting 139% additional fire damage thanks to her accelerant augment plus 50% additional thanks to the ring of fire. On top of that accelerant was buffing the whole damages. 

Ember is dealing ludicrous damages so yeah, players who are complaining don't know nothing about Ember cause complaining is always easier than trying to solve your own issues by yourself. Corpus and Infested are killed in a sec with such a build, only Grineers armor scaling can be an issue but if i can kill a gunner with fire only, can you imagine how long she'd last if my Kavat was able to strip armor, or my Ignis dealing corrosive damages too ? And let be honest a second, most enemies aren't more than level 100, since armor is scaling with levels, anyone at 100 is obliterated with such a build.

And for the last time, Ember is also buffing the entire team, which is non negligible unless one has no friends and prefers to play solo, which is another story.

Oh so a single level 160 in the simulacrum represents the game as a whole? in an actual mission her WoF would have it;s range decrease and she would get one shot by fodder because she has no DR. Sure on paper she can kill a level 160 but that is quite a bit of time to kill ONE threatening enemy where you get swarmed and I highly doubt you could reach level 160 solo with an ember to prove she can actually get to that point without being decimated. Simalucrum babies will be simalucrum babies I suppose.

sure you could say she has a group but many frames can SOLO up to that point with no other frames to make it easier. Tell you what get up to level 160 enemies in the likes of mot solo with an ember and then we can talk buddy.

 

Edit - Also all that set up and you had your kavat as well possibly stripping armor or doing a crit buff which is not part of embers kit which explains the damage spiking so suddenly. Furthermore giving people fire damage is not a good team buff, because as I have stated fire damage is terrible. So also do it solo without a kavat up to level 160 on Mot and then you can say ember isn't bad.

Edited by (XB1)Zweimander
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il y a 33 minutes, (XB1)Zweimander a dit :

Edit - Also all that set up and you had your kavat as well possibly stripping armor or doing a crit buff which is not part of embers kit which explains the damage spiking so suddenly. Furthermore giving people fire damage is not a good team buff, because as I have stated fire damage is terrible. So also do it solo without a kavat up to level 160 on Mot and then you can say ember isn't bad.

No, you can't read much since i stated i was stripping absolutely no armor, every single buff comes from ember's own kit. You're just too salty to get how ember is really performing,which is basically the bread and butter of most "damage is meh" threads such as this one.

I could also have recorded a gunner level 100, which is way more common as a threat, but tbh i'd have killed her in really no time so i wouldn't waste my time recording a few sec videos to argue with people like you. You just don't have a clue about how this game works as a whole, that's quite sad cause arguing then is just a complete waste of time.

If you think that playing solo at a level 160 Mot is an argument, i feel bad for you. Why the hell would anyone do that (unless he has no friends for some reasons and a lot of time to waste), hopefully DE doesn't care much about such things to balance their game. 😅

Edited by 000l000
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Just now, 000l000 said:

No, you can't read much since i stated i was stripping absolutely no armor, every single buff comes from ember's own kit. You're just too salty to get how ember is really performing,which is basically the bread and butter of most "damage is meh" threads such as this one.

 I could also have recorded a gunner level 100, which is way more common as a threat, but tbh i'd have killed her in really no time so i wouldn't waste my time recording a few sec videos to argue with people like you. You just don't have a clue about how this game works as a whole, that's quite sad cause arguing then is just a complete waste of time.

If you think that playing solo at a level 160 Mot is an argument, i feel bad for you. Why the hell would anyone would do that, hopefully DE doesn't care much about such things to balance their game. 😅

Actually I have played for 5 years and I have many frames that can kill that gunner faster with less setup and no Adarza. And in the level 100 field Mesa will still outperform ember and her incredibly short range while also being able to eat some hits. Also I may have reached around 160 solo once upon a time around my third year playing solo out of boredom. I could tell you now if I was playing ember that would not of been possible. I have not done it since then but ember has CC that can be easily out ranged to the point she would get instagibbed by that random corrupted lancer in the corner while your doing your long setup to kill a gunner. It's not practical to set up every priority kill to the extent you had to in that clip after all and in an actual mission it would fail every time.

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17 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

This is genuinely weird, DE, and the easiest conclusion to reach is that for some strange reason, the dev team just doesn't like Ember.

 

At least ember can kill in a aoe plus all you have to do is turn the ability on and off, Ash, however, is a different story.  Their re-visit (nerf) makes him more useless in a team, too slow (when it comes to killing) and pushed him to be more used in solo than in a team even life of rio is not keen on his bs re-visit (nerf). I feel like most of the people complaining about Ash`s bs are people that don`t even play him and that's not a good reason to nerf a warframe.

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On 2019-05-09 at 2:06 AM, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Actually I have played for 5 years and I have many frames that can kill that gunner faster with less setup and no Adarza

Congratulations. Unfortunately, in the real game, we use our companions and weapons as part of our kits to synergize with our frames. Some of us even use our focus school abilities, to boot. On top of that, the video is showing a gimped version of this because it's fire only with no armor stripping.

Ember is performing fine. She's always performed fine. She was a problem for lower level players not even being able to play the game because she wiped out entire maps before they'd even get a chance to play and they fixed that while giving her some buffs and changes to compensate.

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We must allow Based God [DE]Pablo to rework Ember. And same, Ember's been my favorite Warframe ever since I got her as my first Prime all those years back. At least she'll always remain my favorite in my heart... But it doesn't change the fact she's garbage now.

And can people stop defending the current state of Ember? She isn't good, and there are so many other better options than Ember now. Hildryn now does exactly what Ember used to but better, but is DE going to nerf Hildryns Haven? No, they're not. Ember was simply a popular Warframe for clearing out low level rounds to make them go fast, plain and simple. Besides that, for higher levels, there was always a Warframe that could do what she did but better. Now they made her irrelevant to everything else... Like Vauban.

Edited by --CV--Father_Nox
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9 minutes ago, --CV--Father_Nox said:

We must allow Based God [DE]Pablo to rework Ember. And same, Ember's been my favorite Warframe ever since I got her as my first Prime all those years back. At least she'll always remain my favorite in my heart... But it doesn't change the fact she's garbage now.

hahaha its not a fact, its just your opinion. i prefer Pablo keeps his overtuning habits away from frames. it just causes more problems.

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22 minutes ago, --CV--Father_Nox said:

And can people stop defending the current state of Ember? She isn't good, and there are so many other better options than Ember now. Hildryn now does exactly what Ember used to but better, but is DE going to nerf Hildryns Haven? No, they're not. Ember was simply a popular Warframe for clearing out low level rounds to make them go fast, plain and simple. Besides that, for higher levels, there was always a Warframe that could do what she did but better. Now they made her irrelevant to everything else... Like Vauban.

Haven requires line of sight and actively reduces Hildryn's survival resource (her massive shields) per target affected. It's not even close to the same.

I'll stop saying that Ember is fine when people actually prove me wrong. This same mentality centered around Mag and pre-rework Oberon and all they've gotten were changes that helped them, in the end. A frame is more than one power.

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OP, keep saying you've been playing Ember for 4+ years but take it from me, I'm still learning new things about Mag from other dedicated Mag players.  There may be some information you don't know, or, your playstyle isn't lending itself to tap into Ember real strengths. 

 

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