Why are Eidolon Cores not Vacuumable?

[80think08]

EDIT: NO ONE KNOWS 

EDIT EDIT: ARE THE NEW EIDOLON CORES LIKE THE OLD FISSURES?
that and many things more here in this post!

EDIT EDIT EDIT: Day 3 and still noone knows the true answer. Will we dreamers keep drifting in the vast universe?

I think the implications are quite obvious. Eidolon Cores should just be vacuumable.

 

It would also decrease the weighting of the option of using an Iztal, that can vauum everything to itself with its 3. 

Positive Thingies:
No friendly bystanding animals will be harmed anymore in the process of Iztal agressive Vacuum.
You finally can be assured that you pick something up even when the frame rate is so slow for host reasons, it makes every slide show jealous.
I played "picking up simulator" once but I like playing Warframe a lot more to be honest. Less from the first one means more enjoyment in the other.
 

Foreshadowing:
"YoU CaN UsE IzTal" => Is a privileged solution to a problem that does not have to exist.
"I LiKe My PeT mOre WithOut VacUUm" => congratulations you belong statistically to a minority of players, besides it does not really matter, does it?
"I liKe YoU" => I know

Edited May 12, 2019 by 80think08

[Marine027]

Same goes for Eidolon Shards, the unidentified drops aka Arcanas, also Antiserum Injector Fragments and Antiserum Charges in Infested Salvage Missions.

It seems odd that they decided for those missions and locations that specific drops are not vacuum.

Considering they fixed it for reactentents in Fissure missions its odd that they not do the same to those drops, consdiering with host isses you rarely have a bug that you not can pick up anything at all.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Marine027

[80think08]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Marine027:

Considering tehy fixed it for reactentents in Fissure missions its odd that they not do the same to those drops, consdiering with host isses you rarely have a bug that you not can pick up anything at all.

You have to walk over it several times or start camping on top of it until it realizes that it should be picked up and that is very annoying. It happens less extensive if you have vacuum and whatever you want to pick up is vacuumable because you stay a longer duration inside the affected radius of your vacuum and a such the system has more time to realize it thus it is less noticeable. You may have misunderstood, I was not talking about a bug. 

[DerGreif2]

For the same reason why there are indicated EVEN 1000m AWAY: to annoy us.

[Els236]

why are they also not affected by resource booster?

toroids are doubled with a resource booster, fish and gems are doubled with resource booster yet eidolon shards are neither vacuumable or doubled with resource booster....

really stupid

[Oreades]

If I was to guess..... I'd guess that it's because at least one or more of the developers seems to have an ideological grudge against vacuum and feels that manually picking up the loot embiggens the game experience. Same reason we never got a universal** vacuum and had to fight tooth and nail for Companions to finally get the same functionality as Sentinels. 

 

**I mean we technically got a "universal Vacuum" it was implemented in such a minimalist fashion that all it really does is make it so you don't have to make direct physical contact with what you're trying to pick up you just have to run "pretty close". It does solve one use case where opening lockers would throw their contents all over a room which is nice up until you get actual vacuum on a sentinel/companion. It's pretty much Vacuum for the people who don't want to use vacuum but also don't want to admit that operating with no vacuum at all is just too tedious. It was essentially in name only, tho I am totally fine with not getting a 12m Universal since Companions finally got Fetch. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Oreades

[80think08]

 

 

vor 17 Stunden schrieb DerGreif2:

to annoy us.

 

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Oreades:

one or more of the developers seems to have an ideological grudge against vacuum

It is and stays a mistery

[SordidDreams]

Because for some unfathomable reason someone on the dev team thinks that picking stuff up manually in videogames makes it feel more special. Same reason you have to click everything in Diablo 3 and other such games. D3 has made concessions over the years, gold gets vacuumed, and all crafting materials in a radius get picked up if you click one, but there's still a lot of clicking to pick stuff up, and then more clicking to dissolve it into crafting mats.

Needless to say the idea is complete and utter bunk.

Edited May 7, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Steel_Rook]

6 hours ago, Oreades said:

If I was to guess..... I'd guess that it's because at least one or more of the developers seems to have an ideological grudge against vacuum and feels that manually picking up the loot embiggens the game experience. Same reason we never got a universal** vacuum and had to fight tooth and nail for Companions to finally get the same functionality as Sentinels. 

I'll do you one better - why do items drop on the ground AT ALL? Years ago, an MMO called City of Heroes skipped the "drop" stage entirely and simply awarded "drops" directly into everyone's inventory anywhere on the map. Different game, different rules, I get that, but still - why not just share pick-ups with the team? If I pick up, say, an Argon Crystal, just give it to everyone on the team rather than them having to trundle on over and pick up their own copy of it.

[Marine027]

Gerade eben schrieb SordidDreams:

Because for some unfathomable reason someone on the dev team thinks that picking stuff up manually in videogames makes it feel more special. Same reason you have to click everything in Diablo 3 and other such games. D3 has made concessions over the years, gold gets vacuumed, and all crafting materials in a radius get picked up if you click one, but there's still a lot of clicking to pick stuff up, and then more clicking to dissolve it into crafting mats.

Needless to say the idea is complete and utter bunk.

Same in most MMO's, i can see it beeing more "interactive" but most games i know by now have automatic pickup on loot even most MMORPG's, Guild Wars 2 as example made it as bonus to level for, so its a reward you feel nice to have after gaining it or Final Fantasy 14 even that game as much i like it you notice how old the engine is but even that picks all up except chests.

Here it feels odd how they seemingly keep swithcign between pick ups and vacuum, i mean we gained it with gaining a pet so it should feel nice, but then it gets taken away again by such minor exceptions.

[Oreades]

4 hours ago, 80think08 said:

It is and stays a mistery

Is it really tho? 

Consider the fact that the whole reason we still can't access the Simulacrum from the orbiters is that it would invalidate Relays. So the simple notion that some people might stop going to Relays is enough to force a additional loading screens and quick travel access on everyone. There are some distinct "This is how the game will be played" vibes coming form some of the devs. 

So it isn't exactly a stretch to imagine a dev/set of devs who at every possible chance will disable vacuum. I don't think it's outright malice, probably more of a "Try the broccoli and you'll see that you like it" kinda shtick. Remember back when Reactant was needlessly touch to pick up and after a few months they finally broke down and QoL updated it so it was because people kept complaining because a lot of people run fissures. The same is true for Vombluasts/Cores the difference is not a lot of people do those.

I think the same thing would happen to Cores if the Quils/Eidolons where more popular and the core drops where more common from a variety of enemies. As it stands you already have to go out of your way to hunt/find the vombulasts, you're already making the commitment to trudge to the far corners of the map looking for one or two Vombs. So touching a core at that point is probably the least tedious aspect of the endeavor. 

When you kill Eidolons the tedium in needing to touch the cores becomes much more apparent and is probably why people will continue to use Itzal even after they give Blink Jumping to all Archwings. Along with how tedious it is to swippity swap Archwings for air/space in the current menu interface is. Which might just prod them into making cores something that are affected by Vacuum. Because the lack of Vacuumability is going to be the next main "Why is everyone STILL using Itzal" issue. 

[Marine027]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Oreades:

Is it really tho? 

Consider the fact that the whole reason we still can't access the Simulacrum from the orbiters is that it would invalidate Relays. So the simple notion that some people might stop going to Relays is enough to force a additional loading screens and quick travel access on everyone. There are some distinct "This is how the game will be played" vibes coming form some of the devs. 

So it isn't exactly a stretch to imagine a dev/set of devs who at every possible chance will disable vacuum. I don't think it's outright malice, probably more of a "Try the broccoli and you'll see that you like it" kinda shtick. Remember back when Reactant was needlessly touch to pick up and after a few months they finally broke down and QoL updated it so it was because people kept complaining because a lot of people run fissures. The same is true for Vombluasts/Cores the difference is not a lot of people do those.

I think the same thing would happen to Cores if the Quils/Eidolons where more popular and the core drops where more common from a variety of enemies. As it stands you already have to go out of your way to hunt/find the vombulasts, you're already making the commitment to trudge to the far corners of the map looking for one or two Vombs. So touching a core at that point is probably the least tedious aspect of the endeavor. 

When you kill Eidolons the tedium in needing to touch the cores becomes much more apparent and is probably why people will continue to use Itzal even after they give Blink Jumping to all Archwings. Along with how tedious it is to swippity swap Archwings for air/space in the current menu interface is. Which might just prod them into making cores something that are affected by Vacuum. Because the lack of Vacuumability is going to be the next main "Why is everyone STILL using Itzal" issue. 

Main problem with Eidolons is in my eyes, the problem they are not popular becasue of simply you run Eidolons to build AMP'S to fight more Eidolons, becasue outside of EIdolons alot see no reason to use the Operator weapon whichi can only agree on, its a endless cicle and serves only the Eidolon fights itself, it would help if like Orbs or Thumpers them dropping some resources of Cetus also, becasue oyu spend alot of time on them if you not have the strongest AMP's or weapons.

On top i thing EIdolons are sitll one of the worst designed fights, shoot big ass weakpoints with alot HP if you not play Chroma/Sniper Meta, alot of knocks and so many effects that you get blind and get headache of it with the screen shaking combined.

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, Marine027 said:

Main problem with Eidolons is in my eyes, the problem they are not popular becasue of simply you run Eidolons to build AMP'S to fight more Eidolons, becasue outside of EIdolons alot see no reason to use the Operator weapon whichi can only agree on, its a endless cicle and serves only the Eidolon fights itself, it would help if like Orbs or Thumpers them dropping some resources of Cetus also, becasue oyu spend alot of time on them if you not have the strongest AMP's or weapons.

On top i thing EIdolons are sitll one of the worst designed fights, shoot big ass weakpoints with alot HP if you not play Chroma/Sniper Meta, alot of knocks and so many effects that you get blind and get headache of it with the screen shaking combined.

Cant fault you there. I know the only reason I bothered with Eidolons is not because I enjoyed the encounters (well the first one is fine and then they get progressively more irritating) but because I'd literally run out of things to do and said hecc it. Pretty much played them till I maxed my Quild Standing and kinda went back to ignoring they exist unless I needed to unlock a waybound, which I tried to do passively because I found Focus grinding to be it's own circle of maddening. I don't think I'm ever going to unlock a full focus tree lol. 

Personally when it comes to worst fights Kril is still at the top of my list. He isn't hard I just hate that fight mechanically, there is just so little feedback that you're never really sure if you've "done the thing" (even after you shot off his tube) because he just kinda decides to suddenly not be invulnerable when he feels like it. 

[Marine027]

Gerade eben schrieb Oreades:

Cant fault you there. I know the only reason I bothered with Eidolons is not because I enjoyed the encounters (well the first one is fine and then they get progressively more irritating) but because I'd literally run out of things to do and said hecc it. Pretty much played them till I maxed my Quild Standing and kinda went back to ignoring they exist unless I needed to unlock a waybound, which I tried to do passively because I found Focus grinding to be it's own circle of maddening. I don't think I'm ever going to unlock a full focus tree lol. 

Personally when it comes to worst fights Kril is still at the top of my list. He isn't hard I just hate that fight mechanically, there is just so little feedback that you're never really sure if you've "done the thing" (even after you shot off his tube) because he just kinda decides to suddenly not be invulnerable when he feels like it. 

Can agree, Kril is a oddball, it is atleast kind a mechanic but the bad kind, the typical invlunerability phases most bosses have.

I admit i can't design them better, but newer Bosses like Kela, Raptor, Ambulas, feel more fletches out instead and i say i not mind weakpoints like the Thumpers, becasue it fits this kind of game more.

But overall we got Bulletsponges like the Eidolons or the Wolfs without rigth setup and knockbacks onto us alot. Not to speak of cc and ability immunity making only tanky frames matter.

I also liek tohu things like Alad V, it is simple but it works for what it is, same for Sargas Ruk.

If i had to desinga boss it would be something more with having mechanics, shooting targets like with Kela, fighting adds, using device or machines in the room to oyur advantage, etc.

[Oreades]

@Marine027 Kela is mechanically probably my favorite fight in the game, even tho I don't really play it unless she comes up in Sorties. 

Edit: and I just logged in to check to see who the jupiter boss is cause I dread Sargent getting a rework before Kril and the Sortie boss is Kela de Bae ❤️

Edited May 7, 2019 by Oreades

[Zelmen]

On 2019-05-06 at 7:14 AM, 80think08 said:

"I LiKe My PeT mOre WithOut VacUUm" => congratulations you belong statistically to a minority of players, besides it does not really matter, does it?

To counter this and the vacuum concept. If you have vacuum on with more advanced groups one person can steal all of the wisps that doesn't need them for DPS.

I think a bigger issue is the cores that decide to fly to the F--king moon and land 400m+ away. 

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

Easy and short answer: they are to heavy to be vacuumed 

Don't question it just go with it

[DrivaMain]

On 2019-05-06 at 6:14 PM, 80think08 said:

I LiKe My PeT mOre WithOut VacUUm" => congratulations you belong statistically to a minority of players, besides it does not really matter, does it?

I see you never done a 5 hydrolyst capture in one night, let me tell you why 5x3/6x3 players always remove vacuums before going.

If you use Vacuum/Fetch, you will suck all of the Unairu Wisp pickup on the ground thus reducing your team’s DPS because they can only receive the buff by picking it up. 

But, allowing eidolon cores and shard to be vacuumed is not a bad idea.

[SordidDreams]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

If you use Vacuum/Fetch, you will suck all of the Unairu Wisp pickup on the ground thus reducing your team’s DPS because they can only receive the buff by picking it up.

I mean, isn't that very simply solved by only making wisps vacuumable if you don't already have one active?

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

I mean, isn't that very simply solved by only making wisps vacuumable if you don't already have one active?

Perhaps, but given DE’s nature of “Develop X but fix it later” this might take a while.

[Cephalycion]

On 2019-05-07 at 3:36 PM, 80think08 said:

mistery

*mystery

[80think08]

Am 8.5.2019 um 11:49 schrieb Cephalycion:

*mystery

mystery

[80think08]

Community:

 

[alerusthyrumn]

On 2019-05-07 at 5:51 PM, DrivaMain said:

I see you never done a 5 hydrolyst capture in one night, let me tell you why 5x3/6x3 players always remove vacuums before going.

If you use Vacuum/Fetch, you will suck all of the Unairu Wisp pickup on the ground thus reducing your team’s DPS because they can only receive the buff by picking it up. 

But, allowing eidolon cores and shard to be vacuumed is not a bad idea.

But if one person isn't stealing all the DPS then they can't one-shot the damn thing and LEAVE THE REST OF THE TEAM FEELING WORTHLESS!!!

Sorry, I was channeling there

[fr4gb4ll]

On 2019-05-06 at 1:25 PM, Marine027 said:

Same goes for Eidolon Shards, the unidentified drops aka Arcanas, also Antiserum Injector Fragments and Antiserum Charges in Infested Salvage Missions.

It seems odd that they decided for those missions and locations that specific drops are not vacuum.

Considering they fixed it for reactentents in Fissure missions its odd that they not do the same to those drops, consdiering with host isses you rarely have a bug that you not can pick up anything at all.

+1 to that. not that it bothers me no much, but how often do have those "accidents" where someone missed to collect the damn shard and only finds out about it when standing on the island to summon the next eidolon? happend to myself often enough as well as to other team members. all in all, it's the same story as with the reactans right after the change to the relic-system. for the cores, it should be vacuum that can collect them and for the shards and other drops from the eidolons, it should be automatically added to the inventory - this would prevent many of those annoying "loot, high up in the air" problems too (not to mention the occasional "loot in the ground" issues).

On 2019-05-06 at 1:14 PM, 80think08 said:

No friendly bystanding animals will be harmed anymore in the process of Iztal agressive Vacuum.

haha yes i always get a guilty conscience nowadays whenever i kill some accidently by this or even by void-dashing around the battlefield...

and as for itzal... i rather use amesha for eidolon hunts anyway - makes them far more enjoyable.