Game is too easy and caters to noobs

[-QUILL_PETER-]

On 2019-05-07 at 4:48 AM, FlusteredFerret said:

DE aren't going to jump to your command.

Especially if he puts it in General Discussion

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

14 hours ago, Ziser said:

MR27 who played since near start of game here and seen how it evolved based on what new type of players joined the game. I also played a large selection of other games in same genre and multiply others. I also explored most of the metas and other builds and gear combos the game has to offer and can safely say that anyone claiming that having to stay for longer periods of time in a mission for it to FINALLY reach a acceptable diffculty loses their credability in the matter.

Quote aside, the game needs clear challanging content that truly tests your skills and give you merit for it, you can argue how much you want against it but looking back at games this is what made a game a Game. Adding content thats only doable using metagear is a bad idea and no real challange seeking player asked for this, you just asumed it like that. Theres a large portion of players who have skills outside that of gear knowledge such as good aim, reflexes, movment interested players, puzzle lovers and more, yet we have little to no challanges adressing these. I aknowledge that any content might not be doable by all players but we are all humans and humans are good at improving when they want.

This game has absolutely NO challanging content whatsoever from the point of view of an experienced player, even less so for one with a lot of skills to back their experience up too. As original post stated (which is also true whatever you like it or not) the game is catering to more casual players and since their mindset is "All content should be playable by everyone" it is KILLING any chances of adding new actuall challanging content simply because casual players wont be able to do that content. They dont want to improve or are too lazy in order to do said content and will even complain about said content. This is harmfull for the games quality growth and will have all your non-casual players eventually leave. However out of a business view this is ideal because these types of casual players loves to pay for shortcuts, EA has been abusing this fact for a while and thus their games lost their quality entirely, that is fact.

Not wanting to improve or even try because it looks too tedious is never an excuse to lower the requirments for something, we call those people bums in the working society.

Shoot for the starts and dont let anyone stop you.

How, in this same post, do you both claim "THIS WILL BE THE END OF THE GAME'S SUCCESS!"  but at the same time you claim "doing this is good for business, though..."

Stop with the doomsday prophecies.  "Casuals" are not bad for the game...they often help keep the game funded.  DE is a business first and has been doing fine, and even improving, for 6 years now.  Warframe is not going to suddenly die just because you can kill a boss with your op guns.  Chill.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

14 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Here's a crazy thought: Some of us would like to have optional difficulty sliders and challenging content that won't impact the fact that you're enjoying the game as-is.

Deal with it.

Sliders don't work in co-op games, I'm telling you.

When you shoot at a specific grineer target..I'm in the SAME instance that you are, and I am fighting the SAME target.  It -can't- show up as a different level for you than it does me. That would require a completely different host/instance.  Therefore, any attempt to do so means further fragmentation of the playerbase, which I've laid out in other posts as bad for the new player experience.

You simply can't have your cake and eat it, too.  Sooner you accept that, the sooner we can move on to talking about ACTUAL fixes to the proposed issue.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

19 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

Says the one with the "my way or the highway" attitude. If people like Taishin are the cancer of this community, people like you, who can't make a single constructive criticism and instead resort to personal and community attacks whenever their way of thinking is not mirrored/echoed by everyone else, are the death of this community. You complain about circle jerks and echo chambers, but that's exactly what YOU want. You want everyone to just parrot your thoughtless arguments, you want everyone to be in awe of you, and since it ain't happening, you are spitting acid left and right just cause YOU feel like YOU'RE right. You're not. Just cause someone likes the game as is doesn't make them wrong. Just cause you don't like the game as it doesn't make you right. Learn how to respect people's opinions, learn how to have a discussion, and for Clem's sake, learn that the world does NOT revolve around you.

+100000000 upvotes!

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

14 hours ago, Phatose said:

OK, so the easiest way to do this with the fewest complications - so that the slider affects your level of challenge without affecting anybody else, nor without further fracturing the playerbase for matchmaking is to make the slider simply make you weaker.  Can probably just make it affect your gear - a simple calculation, multiply the mod capacity of all items.  If it's set to hard, for example, all your items have their mod points reduced by 50%.  Or we could have it affect the effective level of any mods you have equipped, treating rank 10 mods as if they were rank 5.

But we can already equip lower ranked mods ourselves...even set it up as its own loadout.

As for power restrictions, we already have modes that do that, but when they do, everyone on this forum screams bloody murder at DE for "taking away their power"... but they still "want a challenge".  *shrugs*

[Lutesque]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

As for power restrictions, we already have modes that do that, but when they do, everyone on this forum screams bloody murder at DE for "taking away their power"... but they still "want a challenge".  *shrugs*

Well yeah.... Players want a challenge for their Warframe's Powers... not for their powers to be removed. Its not the same thing...

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 minute ago, Lutesque said:

Well yeah.... Players want a challenge for their Warframe's Powers... not for their powers to be removed. Its not the same thing...

What is going to challenge limitless CC, one-shot damage bursts, and invincibility?  What is  going to possibly, DIRECTLY compete with that?

[Elyann]

On 2019-05-07 at 11:48 AM, FlusteredFerret said:

The game needs to cater to players of all skill levels...including noobs.

DE are trying to figure out how to provide more challenging content for veterans, without screwing up the game for everyone else.

 

In the meantime, if you're bored - go play another game. Elitist tryhards like you make up a small percentage of the player base, so DE aren't going to jump to your command.

 

 

Thank you for saying this, I'm seriously getting annoyed by this noisy tryhard minority trying to force its way of gaming on everyone else. 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

2 minutes ago, Elyann said:

Thank you for saying this, I'm seriously getting annoyed by this noisy tryhard minority trying to force its way of gaming on everyone else. 

I second this!

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

What is going to challenge limitless CC, one-shot damage bursts, and invincibility?  What is  going to possibly, DIRECTLY compete with that?

I have absolutely no idea...... :) 

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

What is going to challenge limitless CC, one-shot damage bursts, and invincibility?  What is  going to possibly, DIRECTLY compete with that?

Ability immunity, 99.99% DR and instant death mechanics.

That's all that's needed to compete with players right now, seems reasonable. /s

[80think08]

ssshh you cant post this here. They have already invaded the community forum. You need to escape!!

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

I find a little corner of solitude in fortuna on a "high-level" bounty. I aggro this area enough, and it gets somewhat challenging. I take it as a sort of endurance run. I don't want it to be nerfed if some weenie finds it and wants to feel like he achieved something, so I won't say where. Such fun. 

[FlusteredFerret]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999 said:

I find a little corner of solitude in fortuna on a "high-level" bounty. I aggro this area enough, and it gets somewhat challenging. I take it as a sort of endurance run. I don't want it to be nerfed if some weenie finds it and wants to feel like he achieved something, so I won't say where. Such fun. 

Well thats the trick - creating balance between content that most players can do and also catering to those who have achieved high levels of OP-ness.

DE realise they screwed up by enabling players to achieve these levels of power...and since that can't be undone (without serious backlash from the community) they need to figure out some news ways of providing uber-high level content. They've said they are looking into this...but since it will likely require some fundamental re-works, new mechanics or suchlike, it could be a while before it becomes a reality.

As with most major game updates, a fair amount of patience will probably be required.

 

[Ziser]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

How, in this same post, do you both claim "THIS WILL BE THE END OF THE GAME'S SUCCESS!"  but at the same time you claim "doing this is good for business, though..."

Stop with the doomsday prophecies.  "Casuals" are not bad for the game...they often help keep the game funded.  DE is a business first and has been doing fine, and even improving, for 6 years now.  Warframe is not going to suddenly die just because you can kill a boss with your op guns.  Chill.

Casuals wont kill the game, only catering to casuals will kill the quality of the game, does not mean casuals will stop playing it so idk why you call it doomsdaying. EA done this for years and look at their games today, i dont think DE will ever fall even close to them but right now it does not look like they plan to listen to more experienced or skilled players that been around for years asking for challanges at all. You turn your back on those players and they eventually leave, what you got left is the casuals and new players so naturally you dont have to make challanging content since theres no one asking for it anymore. Imo thats when a games quality truly dies. My opinion of what games should be ofc is diffrent to others but i remember games having hard and experience/skill requiring challanges that felt really nice completing. You can have content for all kinds of players in the game but the issue is that the players that dont want to even try improve are whining that content thats supposed to be challanging is too hard, those type of players are usually the casual type of players.

[Ziser]

2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Well thats the trick - creating balance between content that most players can do and also catering to those who have achieved high levels of OP-ness.

DE realise they screwed up by enabling players to achieve these levels of power...and since that can't be undone (without serious backlash from the community) they need to figure out some news ways of providing uber-high level content. They've said they are looking into this...but since it will likely require some fundamental re-works, new mechanics or suchlike, it could be a while before it becomes a reality.

As with most major game updates, a fair amount of patience will probably be required.

 

Add challanging missions requiring high affinity for bulletjumping and movment in air, momentum stacking, reflexes, aim and quick decision making rather than dependant on your gear with massivly punishing returns when you fail. Watch the majority of players tear their hair because its too hard when they in reality just do not want to even try to improve or put effort in the gameplay at all.

Sometimes you just have to bite the apple and balance the existing gear even when you get flamed for it. Not doing it at all is rather weak imo. Youre right that the game needs some major re-vamps and new mechanics to improve the game.

I remember when DE wasnt a business foremost, looks like they are leaning to become that though.

[XenMaster]

I think this game is a mistake...

[SECURATYYY]

I just want to do a survival with enemies starting at level 100. That way I don't have to waste an hour~ to get there.

 

Is that too much to ask for? Just a node on a planet somewhere?

 

Where is the line between "everyone gets a trophy" and "you have to be this tall to ride"?

[Ced23Ric]

Just now, SECURATYYY said:

Where is the line between "everyone gets a trophy" and "you have to be this tall to ride"?

Nowhere. You can do lvl100++ Survival with someone that's MR4 or whatever. Give them a frame that can do the deed, and a few mods, and they're there. In fact, my roomie went on a lvl 35 (start) Dark Sector Survival with me until the 40 minute mark, and while I dealt with the Sentient Wolf of Wall Street, he kept us oxygenated during the fight with Nidus.

[SECURATYYY]

5 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

Nowhere. You can do lvl100++ Survival with someone that's MR4 or whatever. Give them a frame that can do the deed, and a few mods, and they're there. In fact, my roomie went on a lvl 35 (start) Dark Sector Survival with me until the 40 minute mark, and while I dealt with the Sentient Wolf of Wall Street, he kept us oxygenated during the fight with Nidus.

Hell yeah man. Always nice to see people helping out newer players.

[FlusteredFerret]

24 minutes ago, SECURATYYY said:

I just want to do a survival with enemies starting at level 100. That way I don't have to waste an hour~ to get there.

 

Is that too much to ask for? Just a node on a planet somewhere?

 

Where is the line between "everyone gets a trophy" and "you have to be this tall to ride"?

Well something like that shouldn't be hard to achieve...its basically an "upgrade" of the Kela de Thaym arena battles on Sedna.

But while this might make a few people happy for a while, its not a universal solution that is going to provide varied high-level gameplay. I think a "proper" solution would be something that enables high level content across all (or at least most) of the existing maps / tile sets.

But as I said (and the devs have also said), achieving this is a lot easier said than done.

 

[EmberStar]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Sliders don't work in co-op games, I'm telling you.

When you shoot at a specific grineer target..I'm in the SAME instance that you are, and I am fighting the SAME target.  It -can't- show up as a different level for you than it does me. That would require a completely different host/instance.  Therefore, any attempt to do so means further fragmentation of the playerbase, which I've laid out in other posts as bad for the new player experience.

You simply can't have your cake and eat it, too.  Sooner you accept that, the sooner we can move on to talking about ACTUAL fixes to the proposed issue.

Unless it uses variable damage scaling, like Anthem apparently does.  Of course the drawback to that is that it makes any kind of progression or upgrade system basically irrelevant.  X gun with always do 0.5% of this target's health in damage per shot, not matter how much damage the floaters say it's doing.  Because the way Anthem seems to handle it is that it just bloats the amount of health the target starts with (for you) if you point a high damage weapon at it.  In fact the Anthem version apparently completely broke if you pointed a the level 1 common vendor trash default gun at it.  (The damage scaling would completely glitch and the vendor trash default weapon would actually do more damage per shot than max level "endgame" Legendary weapons.)

It's completely possible to have sliders to allow someone to individually scale either their damage or the effective health of the enemies they're fighting.  It's just not necessarily a good idea, and it's not simple to do.

[Gamma745]

6 hours ago, Ziser said:

Add challanging missions requiring high affinity for bulletjumping and movment in air, momentum stacking, reflexes, aim and quick decision making rather than dependant on your gear with massivly punishing returns when you fail.

You mean, last mission of Octavia Anthem?

[FlyingDice]

On 2019-05-07 at 5:50 AM, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

> Game is too easy and caters to noobs

> Game is difficult, time-gating, and non-beginner-friendly

i'm MR17, which one of these am I supposed to f---king BELIEVEEEEE-

It's not difficult or non-beginner-friendly. It's just boring and slightly complex. If you have half a brain and nothing better to do you can complete any of the currently-live content without much effort.

Real difficulty would be content that requires you to pay attention to the game and actively play if you want to complete it, not content that requires you to sit in place and occasionally click for forty minutes, then re-up and do it again because the rewards aren't any better for doing three hours straight than for doing 20-40 minute chunks.

[Chipputer]

10 hours ago, Elyann said:

Thank you for saying this, I'm seriously getting annoyed by this noisy tryhard minority trying to force its way of gaming on everyone else. 

What noisy tryhards are you seeing, here? For every one person wanting higher level content there's fifteen people saying, "don't like it don't play, tryhard."
There's no discussion to be had because the flood of people telling us our opinions don't matter drown out the few who disagree but want to entertain actual discussion.

Using terms like, "force," and phrases like, "get out," when discussing these ideas are both intellectually dishonest and childish, respectively. None of this is what's happening.