Game is too easy and caters to noobs

[Voltage]

On 2019-05-07 at 6:23 AM, sleepychewbacca said:

Drop that mod (or mods), go with the non-meta. Use a dragon key. The challenge is there. We can find it. Heck, grab four friends and do a survival challenge with a Javlok, and the only mod you're allowed is heavy caliber. Found a workaround to cheese this? Restrict yourself more. That's challenge there. 

Go a step further! Turn off your monitor and unplug your Keyboard/Controller. That should definitely spice up your gameplay!

Proclaiming the game has challenge as long as you purposefully handicap yourself is like telling someone who finds running a race too easy if they could just dislocate one of their knees to make the race harder for them.

[AugustFestival]

not every game has to be hardcore and ulta challenging though, try playing path of exile or a competitive game if you want a lot of challenge? Warframes gameplay inherently make it not super challenging most of the time and its a good thing, being OP is fun.

[sleepychewbacca]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

Go a step further! Turn off your monitor and unplug your Keyboard/Controller. That should definitely spice up your gameplay!

Proclaiming the game has challenge as long as you purposefully handicap yourself is like telling someone who finds running a race too easy if they could just dislocate one of their knees to make the race harder for them.

Of course it doesn't work for everyone, I'll give you that. 

But what else is there? This has always been a casual fantasy game, and wishing otherwise has yet to give us a proper challenging gamemode.

Sure, you might view handicapping yourself as redundant, I respect your opinion, but I do think if you want a challenge in the game, the possibility is there. If you don't want to, sure, by all means. Carry on doing what you do. 

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Go a step further! Turn off your monitor and unplug your Keyboard/Controller. That should definitely spice up your gameplay!

Proclaiming the game has challenge as long as you purposefully handicap yourself is like telling someone who finds running a race too easy if they could just dislocate one of their knees to make the race harder for them.

I usually don't agree with Voltage, but he does have a valid point with this one.  

[AugustFestival]

 

On 2019-05-07 at 6:22 AM, Highresist said:

Warframe doesn't have a boss that even comes close to the danger and complexity that Uber Elder precents.
 

I really don't want POE level bosses in warframe TBH, warframe is more casual than poe and thats fine, diversity in game difficulty isn't a bad thing, 

poe is fun but i got burned out hard on it after trying and failing to reach a point where I could reach uber elder and do it comfortably, it requires so much time investment every season and the bosses are very punishing, It shouldn't be changed to be more like warframe but warframe shouldn't be changed to be more like poe

[AugustFestival]

30 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Go a step further! Turn off your monitor and unplug your Keyboard/Controller. That should definitely spice up your gameplay!

Proclaiming the game has challenge as long as you purposefully handicap yourself is like telling someone who finds running a race too easy if they could just dislocate one of their knees to make the race harder for them.

doing things like this to make the game harder is a long tradition in games and is a viable option, you dont have to do it but dont pretend like its not even an option.

Edited May 15, 2019 by AugustFestival

[Cubewano]

11 hours ago, AugustFestival said:

doing things like this to make the game harder is a long tradition in games and is a viable option, you dont have to do it but dont pretend like its not even an option.

His point was it's a poor option, not that it isn't one at all. Purposefully having to handicap yourself to enjoy a game, and forgo its own designs/progression systems isn't ideal design and definitely doesn't feel as rewarding (if rewarding at all) compared to just genuinely compelling and fully complex gameplay. Now I'm far from a hardcore player, min maxing has never been my cup of tea, and I only care to push myself in gameplay so far before I otherwise lose interest, but I do know I like to feel engaged on some level to the content I play and not even that seems an option in this game beyond the earliest stages of progress anymore, if even that. You don't just have to forgo certain mods/builds, you have to forgo cetain weapons and frames and even matchmaking options otherwise this game becomes an immensely easy cakewalk. You have to avoid public matchmaking because you can't control what map clear builds you'll run into from other teammates (builds that are immensely commonplace now since the game power ceiling for this game has only grown and grown for years without tapering), have to avoid certain aoe weapons and nuke frames because similarly their power ceilings have only grown and grown over the years to the point of lethality with or without much aid, and builds are just self explanatory. Essentially, play solo, limit the flavors of play you can enjoy, and cut out any thought/diversity from the modding system, and you might finally get a challenging or really just engaging experience, that's the solution you are putting forth and I'm not sure that's something anyone should be confident asking to be settled with. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Cubewano

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, AugustFestival said:

doing things like this to make the game harder is a long tradition in games and is a viable option, you dont have to do it but dont pretend like its not even an option.

It is a viable option, using non meta builds to spice things up but, it shouldn't be the answers to a communities cry for a change. 

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, AugustFestival said:

not every game has to be hardcore and ulta challenging though, try playing path of exile or a competitive game if you want a lot of challenge? Warframes gameplay inherently make it not super challenging most of the time and its a good thing, being OP is fun.

a game doesn't either have to be 3 year old one button click to win easy or grand master chess level difficult, there are inbetweens. calling warframes gameplay not super challenging is an understatement, it isn't challenging at all, and its only been becoming more and more so over the years, albeit never being proclaimed as uber difficult in the past. There's a reason these complaints have only appeared the most recent years, yet long in the past nobody complained about a lack of challenge or an absence of ease, there are happy middle places if people would stop overreacting. 

[(PSN)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng]

Dude, learn to Frickin' RELAX every now and then. Not everything needs to be stressful and challenging. You want that, Go play Dark Souls

[NinjaFramer]

I've read quite a bit of complaints on the difficulty of Warframe. The elite say it's too easy and they want more challenges. The new players say it's too hard. 

What I find interesting is that they are both correct. I am perplexed with the arguments. Most don't want to hear or understand the other side and the comments bounce all over the place.

Players are faced with the same challenges in just about every game out there. You start with nothing, rank up your powers, weapons or both until you hit the final boss and beat the game.

If I was totally ranked up in dark souls and started new game plus it would be considerably easier. I have everything I need. I know every enemy and every boss. I know, I've done it many times. It's still one of my favorite games. 

Which brings me to my point. 

Veterans, stop projecting your experience on other players. While it may be easy for you it may not be easy for others. You've been at this a while and you've gotten pretty good at the game. You know what to do and how to do it. And yes, new challenges that are considerably more difficult would be right up your alley. Warframe has no ending, no endgame. It's an awesome game so it stands to reason you want more. 

New players, I've been there. I totally get you. Yes, it is a very challenging game. Hang in there. I've felt like abandoning this game a few times. If you play solo it is an extremely difficult game. It can be done though. The game plays smoothly is your playing with others. Some would argue that this is a multi player game. I would remind them though, there is "Solo" option and it's not JUST for playing by yourself when you want to. I do, however, use it when I am playing syndicate missions as some players just want to run through the missions. And I play solo if I want to farm for minerals, go fishing or simply because I want to open every locker.

I sometimes play solo because of intimidation. I've played with some that just get  pi $$ ed  at me. Quite a few as a matter of fact, even those that knew my handicap and offered their help. Nope, I don't understand the synergies of Warframes, focus schools and weapons. I have learned some things from players on the internet but try as I may I don't have it down. Yet, I continue on. I love the game.

I've read the comments that say "Cripple yourself in some way and then you will understand." That just brings conflict. The easiest way would be to ask them to open another account and start over... solo. Lol, that'll show them. Don't get mad. I am just referring to the comments. I really don't feel that way.

This brings me to my final point. 

The Warframe community is supposed to be friendly and helpful. For the most part it is. But, projecting yourself on others is not helpful. We are all different. Some players forget and are quick to judge or dismiss those that are having problems.

But do you have the patience to carry and train? Because that's what we need.

[Chipputer]

16 minutes ago, NinjaFramer said:

The easiest way would be to ask them to open another account and start over... solo.

I mean I get what you're trying to say and I also get that you're being facetious but this is exactly how I played through the game on this account. I did a few missions with my friend, who started when I did, then he got annoyed with public Saryns nuking his map (back when press4towin Saryn was a thing) and quit, and then I went solo so that I didn't run into it, either.

The game isn't actually difficult, mechanically. The problem is that you're confusing, "it takes a lot of time to shoot that guy down," with, "this is actually difficult," which isn't the case. This is the obstacle that new players face and it's the obstacle that can only be overcome with time investment and learning what combination of elements* will help you combat that health pool.

I assure you, a good portion of the veterans that want more difficult content aren't projecting their experience onto the new players. Often times we're more than willing to offer advice because we know what it was like to not have Corrosive Projection, not have a fully ranked Serration, not have a fully ranked Vitality, and only have a few frames to choose from (and possibly none of which suited our play style).
What is happening, though, is that we ask for more difficult content and then people who aren't yet equipped to handle it make feedback threads complaining about not being able to handle it and then get upset when a player that can handle it tells them that they're going to have to come back later.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Chipputer
* I don't just mean elementals, I mean elements of gameplay.

[Zimzala]

300 hundred or so people making a game played by 3M or so people.

They cannot please all of the people, al of the time.

The numbers keep going up, they are making money, so they are doing something right.

You either like what they make or you don't.

It is not hard.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Zimzala

[Kontrollo]

47 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

300 hundred or so people making a game played by 3M or so people.

They cannot please all of the people, al of the time.

The numbers keep going up, they are making money, so they are doing something right.

You either like what they make or you don't.

It is not hard.

Black-or-white fallacy.

Generally, I do like what they make, or I wouldn't be here. Pointing out problems with (parts of) the game or its direction does not imply that I don't like the game.

[Zimzala]

13 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Black-or-white fallacy.

Generally, I do like what they make, or I wouldn't be here. Pointing out problems with (parts of) the game or its direction does not imply that I don't like the game.

Sure, but there is still no way they can please all of the people, even some of the time.

Pointing out issues is one thing.

In the end though, either the game is something you like or you don't, you play it or you don't.

This thread, like so many on all game forums, is full of posters that, IMO, have simply not realized that this game, or gaming in general, cannot fill the void in thier lives it once might have - that they have grown as people and that some things don't last forver.

These posts come from people, IMO, set on making this a 'lifestye' game so intertwined with dailiy existence that it impacts thier RL.

No game (company) can provide that kind of dopamine forever, especially once you have mastered it, IME.

Sometimes, it really is just as simple as 'your personal growth and abilities have moved you past a game being what you crave'.

Few really like losing something they enjoy and outgrowing something is a form of loss.

Add in the fact money changed hands and the 'feeling' of loss grows stronger.

Me, I just see it as money spent on entertainment - games give great ROI IMO.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Zimzala

[NinjaFramer]

No, not being facetious. I just laughed at it when I wrote it because that is exactly what I did as well. This is my 3rd time and it is Solo. The other times were with friends and it was a totally different experience. 

This is exactly what I was talking about though. I'm not you and YES, it is difficult. In the beginning your weapons aren't that good and the mods are broken. So, yes, it takes a lot of bullets and knowledge of the mechanics. You can't win an argument about this. You don't know me and you don't know the vast majority. I have witnessed a LOT of veterans projecting. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist. I can say without a doubt that you are projecting. For you and probably others that you know, it's not hard. You simply can't say "it's not hard" as you are projecting your abilities on me but you can say "it's not difficult me me."  For you. How, how can you for one second say that this isn't true. You don't know me. It would be nice if you added "Here's how or let me help." You definitely are a better player than me. I envy you. I wish I was better. I've heard "Git Gud" too many times. This is not a friendly invitation.

I do agree though, players that aren't equipped to handle the really difficult stuff do complain but they really  shouldn't even try it. They're not ready. 

I stated that I understand both sides. I also said newbies need help. I need help and I'm not new. I still don't understand everything. Friends that I played with didn't teach me. I just ran with them. And by friends I meant players that friended me not actual people I know.

You know it's simply dumbfounding. When someone says they understand both sides or they don't understand the game, so many players project. That doesn't make the player feel good about themselves. That simply doesn't help. And really, that's what they're asking for.... Help.

And DE, this is a fantastic game. I've put a lot of money into it. I totally support this awesome game. I suck at it but I love it to death. Sorry though, this play through I haven't spent any money.

 

[White_Matter]

On 2019-05-07 at 12:48 PM, FlusteredFerret said:

 

 

In the meantime, if you're bored - go play another game.

 

That is a counter productive argument.

That is along the lines of admitting that this game has nothing to offer to veterans, as there is no end game content.

OP has a point. And it is a legit point as it has been coming up for years. Game always had that problem,  which was never adressed btw.  But back in Void keys/ Leaderboards/Clan Events/Raids Era, there was at least something to do for people who've hit that "the end" wall.

Now there is literally nothing. Game went forward with providing new quests, new lore, new mechanics(like damage, parkour, melee 2.0) but it seems like we've hit a wall when it comes to those as well. We haven't gotten anything "new" for 6 months now, and before that, most of the content that was added wasn't catered towards end game players anyways.

There are people who've invested 2000+ hours, 5+ years and their money in this game, and while they may be the minority, their opinions are just as valuable as anyone elses. 

 I've been playing less and less each month and I'm pretty sure most people who've been lookin forward to end game content(or any new content really) have also been doing the same. 

"Go play something else" doesn't adress any of those problems. Pretty obvious that the people who keep bringing up the lack of content, actually like this game, and they want to play it more.

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by White_Matter

[Zimzala]

6 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

"Go play something else" doesn't adress any of those problems. Pretty obvious that the people who keep bringing up the lack of content, actually like this game, and they want to play it more.

There is nothing wrong with liking the game and wanting more.

There is also nothing wrong in realizing a game can no longer entertain you and that is it time to move on to something else, take a break, whatever.

These are not mutually excluvie ideas.

DE, like all game companies, simply cannot please all of the people all of the time.

Players of this game, like all games, need to realize it is possible to outgrow a game. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Zimzala

[White_Matter]

2 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

There is nothing wrong with liking the game and wanting more.

There is also nothing wrong in realizing a game can no longer entertain you and that is it time to move on to something else, take a break, whatever.

These are not mutually excluvie ideas.

DE, like all game companies, simply cannot please all of the people all of the time.

Players of this game, like all games, need to realize it is possible to outgrow a game. 

I think everyone who has played this game up to a certain point is aware that DE can't please everyone at the same time. The problem is, DE hasn't pleased the veteran player base for years. That is why these kind of threads pop up every week.

Game lacking the challenge aspect. or content geared towards veterans is not a subjective interpretation. It is a fact. So "go play something else" approach doesn't adress the issue at hand. Thus, like I said, it is counter productive.

[Zimzala]

5 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

I think everyone who has played this game up to a certain point is aware that DE can't please everyone at the same time. The problem is, DE hasn't pleased the veteran player base for years. That is why these kind of threads pop up every week.

Game lacking the challenge aspect. or content geared towards veterans is not a subjective interpretation. It is a fact. So "go play something else" approach doesn't adress the issue at hand. Thus, like I said, it is counter productive.

And thus, those vertans need to have the self realization that they have outgrown the game, IMO.

The game is built to be what it is.

After you master it, it provides less challenge w/o you making your own.

If that is not the game you want to play, find another.

That is not unconstructive, it simply does not solve your 'issue' in the way you would prefer, which in your own words, is obviously not the plan, since DE has not provided what you think it should.

Threads like this won't change any of that, if your outlook is true - this is a game based around mastering it, then it holds little value to 'veterans', because they have done all there is to do.

How is acknowledging that reality conterproductive?

[Chipputer]

2 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

That is not unconstructive, it simply does not solve your 'issue' in the way you would prefer, which in your own words, is obviously not the plan, since DE has not provided what you think it should.

It is counter productive, though, as it ignores the fact that DE doesn't want to lose their veteran player base. They've also directly acknowledged that they want to try to put things in the game for their long term players simply by making an, "elite," version of Sanctuary Onslaught and the fact that Arbitrations exist.

Those aren't successful simply because they're undertuned and Sanctuary forces a certain type of meta in order for you to even begin to succeed, but they're there for the very specific reason of trying to give some higher leveled, more difficult content for people.

5 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

The game is built to be what it is.

The game isn't even fully built yet.

Warframe is an office building that's currently undergoing construction. People are asked to work in the finished rooms while the construction is ongoing. One day someone has to use the restroom and realizes that there aren't any within the whole building. He then asks if they can please prioritize putting some restrooms in and someone else comes along and goes, "they're building this place to their own vision, be happy with what you have."

[Kontrollo]

48 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Sure, but there is still no way they can please all of the people, even some of the time.

Pointing out issues is one thing.

In the end though, either the game is something you like or you don't, you play it or you don't.

This thread, like so many on all game forums, is full of posters that, IMO, have simply not realized that this game, or gaming in general, cannot fill the void in thier lives it once might have - that they have grown as people and that some things don't last forver.

These posts come from people, IMO, set on making this a 'lifestye' game so intertwined with dailiy existence that it impacts thier RL.

No game (company) can provide that kind of dopamine forever, especially once you have mastered it, IME.

Sometimes, it really is just as simple as 'your personal growth and abilities have moved you past a game being what you crave'.

Few really like losing something they enjoy and outgrowing something is a form of loss.

Add in the fact money changed hands and the 'feeling' of loss grows stronger.

Me, I just see it as money spent on entertainment - games give great ROI IMO.

This game is structured in a way that it's possible to target a broad audience, in the simplest case by tweaking some numbers and adding some game modifiers. It's not about pleasing everyone even some of the time, either (that's another fallacy).

The problems in this particular game are entirely homemade. I actually remember a time when this was still in the territory of -- and quoting Steve here --  "Left for Dead in Space" "Left 4 Death in Space". There's no good reason it couldn't be that again at least in some parts of the game. They have to find better ways to do that, however, and create better incentives, too.

 

Also, speaking as someone who doesn't just go and run everything into the ground with a meta loadout. It's still easy enough most of the time. And I don't mind it too much, actually. I know that at the top end the game's mechanics are in various states of brokenness.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Kontrollo
I humbly and profusely apologise for that inexcusable mistake of mine

[Chipputer]

2 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

"Left for Dead in Space"

Excuse me, sir! You're wrong on the internet! This cannot stand!

It's Left 4 Dead.

I demand you fix this incredibly important detail in your post!

[Phatose]

24 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

I think everyone who has played this game up to a certain point is aware that DE can't please everyone at the same time. The problem is, DE hasn't pleased the veteran player base for years. That is why these kind of threads pop up every week.

Game lacking the challenge aspect. or content geared towards veterans is not a subjective interpretation. It is a fact. So "go play something else" approach doesn't adress the issue at hand. Thus, like I said, it is counter productive.

Let's be fair - it isn't the veteran player base that hasn't been pleased.  It's not that general, and is closer to "DE hasn't pleased the veteran players who want a challenge from Warframe".  I'll attest that at least one 'veteran' player doesn't really want a challenge.

[Zimzala]

I'll bow out.

You guys are focused on the minutae of the levers that you (think) can be tweaked...

'They could just...' is IMO, the battle-cry of the uninformed.

The concept I am attempting to convey is either not possible to convey by me, or is just not something you want to hear.

Later.