Game is too easy and caters to noobs

[Chipputer]

7 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

"Left 4 Death in Space"

A+

10/10

100%

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

Then limit your arsenal.

The reason it's easy, especially if you're a min/maxed Riven user, is simply because you're the 1% in Gear outfitting (which is independent of skill). And the Devs don't cater to the 1%.

If you're talking about how braindead the combat generally is, yeah. The Devs are working on that if you haven't noticed with the recent enemy updates.

[White_Matter]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

 

If that is not the game you want to play, find another.

 

Thanks for the input. Too bad it is worthless.

 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

 

Threads like this won't change any of that, if your outlook is true - this is a game based around mastering it, then it holds little value to 'veterans', because they have done all there is to do.

How is acknowledging that reality conterproductive?

Forums exist for the community to be able to be in touch with the Devs, as well as with each other. Threads like this may or may not change something(DE has taken some suggestions into consideration in the past) but it is not for you to decide. 

This game at some point, like I mentioned previously, with Clan events, Void keys, Leader Boards and Raids were able to satisfy the veteran player base to some extend. Nothing suggests similar content can't be brought back again.

Like I said, thanks for your input, but "go play something else" is a counter productive argument for the reasons I mentioned, and you may as well not say it because you are wasting everyones time.

1 hour ago, Phatose said:

Let's be fair - it isn't the veteran player base that hasn't been pleased.  It's not that general, and is closer to "DE hasn't pleased the veteran players who want a challenge from Warframe".  I'll attest that at least one 'veteran' player doesn't really want a challenge.

Fair enough. But this isn't only about challenge. End game content doesn't exist, period. Most "complaints" revolve around similar topics, lack of challenge or lack of fresh content that is catered towards end game players, and those threads are created by veterans. Even guys like Mogamu and Tactical Potato and some other WF content creators expressed the same concerns over and over again.

 

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, Phatose said:

Let's be fair - it isn't the veteran player base that hasn't been pleased.  It's not that general, and is closer to "DE hasn't pleased the veteran players who want a challenge from Warframe".  I'll attest that at least one 'veteran' player doesn't really want a challenge.

I think it's closer to DE have failed to please people who want to be engaged, which is the true loss in all this mess, meaningful and involved gameplay. I spend more time afk in most missions these days than I do present because enemy swiping is so effortless these days it barely requires playing, and at times it's so effective you don't even have the option. Gameplay is on the most braindead loop it has ever been on for this game, you don't have to think, react, care, being involved in gameplay is wholly pointless now because nothing is a remote threat to us and everything we want to do we can do fully with no effort. That's probably what is really causing recent burnout, especially in veterans, because once you move beyond the barest bones of being a starter you've already power creeped out any engaging gameplay the game has to offer these days.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Cubewano

[Chipputer]

3 hours ago, A-Midnight-Shanking said:

The reason it's easy, especially if you're a min/maxed Riven user, is simply because you're the 1% in Gear outfitting (which is independent of skill). And the Devs don't cater to the 1%.

You don't need min/maxed rivens for your ability to deal damage to be ridiculous. It's also silly to assume that only the top 1% have maxed out basic damage mods.

[Alexandrious]

On 2019-05-07 at 5:45 AM, Psykhe27 said:

Make arbitrations harder. Make them more rewarding. This could be a fun game mode if it were not boring as hell. Doing 40 waves for a C cycle is absurd. Make it 20 waves. Make it scale harder. If noobs want the rewards and can't participate then, god forbid, they need to learn and meet higher skill players.

 

Make game modes that rewards based on merit and challenge.

 

Make it so achievement is earned rather than just showing up.

 

There is no endgame because level 35 is considered hard. 1 hr mot level should be a base starting point for a game mode.

 

 

- From a day 125 MR27 player who can do 4 hour survivals

Just day 125? And only 4 hours survival o.o. Your still a n00b yourself. 🤔

[LupoDWolf]

'end game'' does exist. the problem is, after some time, it becomes easy, specially for people who already think the last endgame was easy.

[Ziser]

On 2019-05-14 at 8:32 AM, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Good for EA.

DE is not EA, however.

Also, again, if a practice is "bad" in the majority's eyes, then the majority will stop funding said practice, and the game will fail...and no more will be made.
Since this game is still going, clearly the majority enjoy it, and thus whatever DE is doing is working just fine to keep the game alive....otherwise, they'd change or close down. 

I don't know why that isn't apparent.

The majority also said Trump is good but we all know that majority are usually as dump as rocks :^)

The majority of gamers today are casual gamers who play games because its cool to play games, its "hip". Games are easier to get into today and thats great but when devs starts catering to the casual gamer only they lose the more hardcore and devoted players. The players that stay around for the longest dissapears and the casual players in question arent even comparable to them in terms of devotion.

You can solve this by listening to and create content for both groups and thats what DE is currently failing at, they cater to the casual side only. The experienced players looking for hard and challanging content complain theres noone while the newer/casual players tell them to go to other games if they want a challange. The reversed situation is where new/casual players ask for easier diffculties or complain the game is too hard and the experienced players tell them to git gud.

Noone of the examples are ideal but if i had to pick one id be on the git gud side.

"If you first fail, try again, nothing is impossible for the working man."

Edited May 15, 2019 by Ziser
Typo, correction

[Chipputer]

15 minutes ago, Ziser said:

The majority also said Trump is good but we all know that majority are usually as dump as rocks :^)

More accurately, the majority said he was better than Hillary Clinton, not that he, himself, was good.

However, politics aren't a good idea to bring onto these forums, particularly when it's a game based in Canada and you're talking US politics.

[Ziser]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

More accurately, the majority said he was better than Hillary Clinton, not that he, himself, was good.

However, politics aren't a good idea to bring onto these forums, particularly when it's a game based in Canada and you're talking US politics.

It was a meme example, im awere they didnt have much of a choice.

Should have made an example in lines of

I dont want some new-lazy-carpenter-worked-here-for-40-days tell me how things should work in the business when i have more experience in the field then he can even start to fathom.

I dont want some new/casual player tell me what hard and challanging content should be when i have more experience in the game than he can even start to fathom.

[Cubewano]

51 minutes ago, Ziser said:

-snip-

more accurately he lost the popular vote but that's beside the point

Just using the blanket notion everyone is dumb as a defense for why we should or shouldn't do something is just an entirely meaningless and nonconstructive response. If you disagree with what people want, use your words to explain why, rather than making sweeping statements that are impossible to actually file logic onto much less create a discussion off of. 

I can agree to a degree DE does have an issue with trying to appeal too hard to casual players, but in that same sentiment I don't think the issue is the general notion of appealing to casual players, but just how far DE seems to believe they have to go to make this game facilitating for a casual crowd, and in that regard I think they've gone overboard. Casual or hardcore players still want to have an engaging experience when they play a game, they want to be pushed into some kind of involvement that makes the experience memorable, and DE have gone so far in watering down the difficulty of this game that even for a casual experience the engagement this game has falls off immensely fast. You do the first few planets, unlock a few weapons and frames, and then you're already at a point where you can aoe splash through the rest of the game with minimal involvement as near everything dies before even registering as alive in the first place. Assuming you aren't hard carried (voluntarily or not depending on if you have public matchmaking enabled) beforehand. Then as you progress further the game becomes just less and less interesting as everything becomes more and more self handled, and even team play becomes redundant outside the most niche of instances. 

They aren't really even appealing to casual players, just the very newest players. Everyone else gains little from the direction we have been going. 

35 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

-snip-

^ first sentence

Edited May 16, 2019 by Cubewano

[Ziser]

6 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

more accurately he lost the popular vote but that's beside the point

Just using the blanket notion everyone is dumb as a defense for why we should or shouldn't do something is just an entirely meaningless and nonconstructive response. If you disagree with what people want, use your words to explain why, rather than making sweeping statements that are impossible to actually file logic onto much less create a discussion off of. 

I can agree to a degree DE does have an issue with trying to appeal too hard to casual players, but in that same sentiment I don't think the issue is the general notion of appealing to casual players, but just how far DE seems to believe they have to go to make this game facilitating for a casual crowd, and in that regard I think they've gone overboard. Casual or hardcore players still want to have an engaging experience when they play a game, they want to be pushed into some kind of involvement that makes the experience memorable, and DE have gone so far in watering down the difficulty of this game that even for a casual experience the engagement this game has falls off immensely fast. You do the first few planets, unlock a few weapons and frames, and then you're already at a point where you can aoe splash through the rest of the game with minimal involvement as near everything dies before even registering as alive in the first place. Assuming you aren't hard carried (voluntarily or not depending on if you have public matchmaking enabled) beforehand. Then as you progress further the game becomes just less and less interesting as everything becomes more and more self handled, and even team play becomes redundant outside the most niche of instances. 

They aren't really even appealing to casual players, just the very newest players. Everyone else gains little from the direction we have been going.

I could make a lot of examples in carpenter terminology why somone inexperienced insisting to do things their way and thus fail or screw up and ignoring the advice or teachings of experienced carpenters would legit have the new guy on the job fit the description of being a dumbass. What differs them from a non-dumbass is somone listening to and improving instead of complaining. 

New/Casual player takes on challanging and hard content, fail, complain its too hard instead of trying to improve, research, try again, learn and grow then i will legit see that person as either somone venting their frustation or a dumbass. Neither of the described players should be a deciding factor of what content should look like.

I dont have much to say for the second part as i agree with it besides the new player and casual player part. New players can be hardcore players eager to learn and improve, casual players usually do not devote as much to the game and thats fine. The issue is that the bad spectrum of casual players are complaining they cant get rewards or do hard challanging content the devoted/experienced players can so DE listens to them and suddenly we have no rewards for devotion nor any hard or challanging content.

I see it as lazy players wanting same rewards and being part of same thing as heavily devoted, skilled and experienced players, that imo is an issue.

"-Why is Jared getting a higher pay than me? We are both carpenters."

"-Jared worked as a carpenter for 10 years and hes highly skilled and devoted to his work, you could start by atleast coming to work at time"

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

3 hours ago, Alexandrious said:

Just day 125? And only 4 hours survival o.o. Your still a n00b yourself. 🤔

for real, and if your day 125 and already mr 27, you havent really played the game at all, sounds like you spent hella money and ran through everything.

[(PSN)Limorkil]

I don’t find Warframe too easy.  

I don’t find Warframe too hard.  

Honestly, there are very few games where I can say both of those.  

 

[Ceejay]

On 2019-05-07 at 11:48 AM, FlusteredFerret said:

DE are trying to figure out how to provide more challenging content for veterans

Ya right wanting to put some sort of effort into the game and get a suitable reward oh no what an elitist

 

On 2019-05-07 at 11:48 AM, FlusteredFerret said:

Elitist tryhards like you make up a small percentage of the player base, so DE aren't going to jump to your command. 

The game has been catering to new players for years but hey what's another 20 years

[Chappie]

17 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Fair enough. But this isn't only about challenge. End game content doesn't exist, period. Most "complaints" revolve around similar topics, lack of challenge or lack of fresh content that is catered towards end game players, and those threads are created by veterans. Even guys like Mogamu and Tactical Potato and some other WF content creators expressed the same concerns over and over again.

Answer me a question...of the revenue DE earns...where does it come from?  Where does it peak?   Remember that DE's biggest signup period was after the last tennocon in 2018.    For better or worse...DE is using data to drive decisions.   Right now the data must be telling them that the current path they are on is the "correct one".     Considering that DE must do what is best for DE then our only real recourse is to find a system which mutually benefits BOTH sides.    Right now, everything I read from most players is, "what bout me".   Unless you can find a viable revenue method which is sustained by "end game content" (however you want to define this)....you might as well yell into a wall.

[White_Matter]

28 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

Answer me a question...of the revenue DE earns...where does it come from?  Where does it peak?   Remember that DE's biggest signup period was after the last tennocon in 2018.    For better or worse...DE is using data to drive decisions.   Right now the data must be telling them that the current path they are on is the "correct one".     Considering that DE must do what is best for DE then our only real recourse is to find a system which mutually benefits BOTH sides.    Right now, everything I read from most players is, "what bout me".   Unless you can find a viable revenue method which is sustained by "end game content" (however you want to define this)....you might as well yell into a wall.

Revenue mostly comes from obviously plat purcheses, prime access and likely tennogen. 

Cosmetics envelope the whole player base, regardless of how new and how long they've been around. Same goes for boosters.

People who'll invest in the game are likely the people who enjoy playing it, or who plan on playing it. 

So keeping veterans around will also generate revenue regardless of what that content will be.

It is true that new players are likely to purchase and spend more plat but I wouldn't make a broad generalization.

Bottom line is, the content is what keeps players in the game. The less you play it, the less you likely to spend. 

 

[Chipputer]

29 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

Right now, everything I read from most players is, "what bout me".

Uhhhhh

Yeah? That's the point of giving feedback from your own personal viewpoint. I don't understand the issue, there. DE being a business and trying to push toward financial success doesn't change the fact that their consumer base all have different needs and they should be listening and addressing those needs.

You also seem to forget that last Tennocon showed off a major system which generated a massive amount of hype and, yet, isn't in the game yet. A bunch of people signing up after an event in which you tease something is... par for the course in free2play games.

33 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

Right now the data must be telling them that the current path they are on is the "correct one".

To address this:

That data is a year old. That data is so old, in fact, that they had to write on a white board in order to help them focus. That data is so old that this white board encompasses everything from the new player experience to the difficulty of the game.

This includes raids, a decidedly end-game activity.

Thanks for trying to be objective but data requires context. That context was a pure hype event.

[rand0mname]

I got an impression that some Tenno can get the challenge they want by visiting Conclave.

No powecreep, no obliterating everything on the map by pressing a couple of buttons while watching a movie, some parkour and aiming skills required, you actually have to be aware of your surroundings, smarter then average Grineer opponents, a flashy syandana that will not be given away to everyone for logging in...

What is the better challenge for a bored Tenno then another Tenno with a better Internet connection and a couple of friends in voice chat, right?

Or so I heard.

Edited May 16, 2019 by rand0mname

[Kontrollo]

5 hours ago, rand0mname said:

I got an impression that some Tenno can get the challenge they want by visiting Conclave.

No powecreep, no obliterating everything on the map by pressing a couple of buttons while watching a movie, some parkour and aiming skills required, you actually have to be aware of your surroundings, smarter then average Grineer opponents, a flashy syandana that will not be given away to everyone for logging in...

What is the better challenge for a bored Tenno then another Tenno with a better Internet connection and a couple of friends in voice chat, right?

Or so I heard.

Some people will do exactly that, yes. It's certainly challenging, but also definitely not everyone's cup of tea.

However, part of the problem is that we get more and more powerful in PvE, but from a certain point on there's simply no opposition anymore -- and the bar gets lower and lower. But then you can't bring all that gear you've earned into PvP, though. It's a different beast.

 

So it's really not the solution for the problem at hand.

[Lutesque]

I was actually thinking about playing something else.... something I know to be challenging just to see how rusty Warframe has made me...

Hopefully I may also get some inspiration to figure how to add challenge to warframe... only for nothing to come out of it... 😜

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

7 hours ago, rand0mname said:

I got an impression that some Tenno can get the challenge they want by visiting Conclave.

No powecreep, no obliterating everything on the map by pressing a couple of buttons while watching a movie, some parkour and aiming skills required, you actually have to be aware of your surroundings, smarter then average Grineer opponents, a flashy syandana that will not be given away to everyone for logging in...

What is the better challenge for a bored Tenno then another Tenno with a better Internet connection and a couple of friends in voice chat, right?

Or so I heard.

[Volinus7]

OP doesn't really understand how the game has just coerced so much playtime out of him. Lol

 

[Ikyr0]

i like to pop in every now and then. i wholeheartedly agree with the OP, and the premise of this thread. ive made a few myself.

i have 700 hours in WF, and overall i love the game. I have everything that i want unlocked and don't want any new STUFF. I want to run relatively challenging content with my maxed out frames and get good, scaling rewards. Cosmetics and mats would suffice. Even credits. I do have self-imposed barriers, such as maining frames that aren't completely "broken", so all i really want is the option to run my missions against lvl 125-150 mobs without waiting a freaking hour. I'm goddamn sick of clearing maps of lvl 50 mobs in one cast so I can get some daily rep or grind some new mod.

Until we get enemies 2.0 or some sort of difficulty slider, I'll be playing other games. atm, I'm playing DoS2, PoE2, TW Warhammer 2, and I'm considering an NG+ modded TW3 run. WF has become irrelevant to me =( and no amount of "fluff content" will bring me back.

What I don't get: DE has already acknowledged this as a problem. They are working on solutions. Why is there still arguing about WF "being too easy and catering to noobs" - this has been known by the players and devs. DE wants to make WF an inclusive game, so they will attempt solutions for players like me. But so far, it's just been talk. We badly need Enemies 2.0.

if you argue that I got 700 hours out of the game, and that's plenty, then I will say you're right and see you later. Keeping my stuff. But if players like me are to keep playing, a lot about WF needs to change. mostly, there needs to be challenge and better rewards.

I'm always happy to bump posts like these. So for now, gonna get back to my other amazing games and check back in a few months down the line, maybe with Railjack.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Ikyr0

[Psykhe27]

On 2019-05-15 at 5:54 PM, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

for real, and if your day 125 and already mr 27, you havent really played the game at all, sounds like you spent hella money and ran through everything.

Actually I have played the game at 1100 hours in mission. I have been endgame with top shelf mods and infinite forma. I actually bought a Rhino Prime vault for 60 cdn and spent all the plat on slots then an amprex riven. I sold rhino/nix sets/rolled rubico rivens and made 40k plat. The fun has been in spending the plat to get to mr27 but when you got that much, the fun kinda dissipates. So I gave away the plat to people with happy bombs. I turned 50 plat into 12k again in the last 3 weeks. 

I do love the game. I did enjoy Nightwave. I enjoyed Wolf when it was difficult but his AI should have tried harder to kill the tenno instead of shooting his moves predictably. Only content that I do not play is eidolons. Some people play them because they enjoy them, I prefer to spend my time in warframes. I do not enjoy them and I make more plat from doing kuva survivals or trading. I would like to have more focus on it being useful to farm regular missions. I just started playing again 3 weeks ago. I mean fortuna was pretty fun but after the grind, I don't wanna go back there. Exploiter was fun but doing it 100s of times to get both ephemera is brutal.

You SHOULD EARN rewards not get participation ribbons.

 

 

 A couple improvements I would suggest:

- A really fun game mode that I would suggest would be a gauntlet, where the bosses of warframes randomly cycle (but rng can't roll the same boss within the last 3 rounds) and the ai difficulty increases as does HP and cc resistance increased. This can scale infinitely until you have a boss that decimates you.

- Arbitration would be plenty of fun if the LOOT CYCLE was same as regular missions barring excavations to be 3 or 4.

- ESO would have been more fun if you could keep playing AFTER stage 12-13 simply because not enough enemies spawn. The efficiency should be hard to get by the enemies being hard to kill NOT limiting game mechanics by terrible spawn rates. Just like Warframe learned from the movement system that is present.. Limitations reduce fun. There is no reason that players should be limited from the amount of rounds they can complete. Let the cycle continue on like a survival until you can't kill monsters anymore due to mob DIFFICULTY.

- Kuva survival having scaling rewards from kuva towers. Difficulty ramps hard from 2 hours on.

- Incentivize challenge in the game rather than simply doling a reward for showing up and being around the longest time in the mission, playing it as much as possible, because of 1% drop rates.

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Psykhe27