Game problems and suggestions

[Ir0nM0us3]

Ok, my second topic ever. I started playing not so long ago, and now I feel I can offer my complete insight into the game problems from my own perspective.

First of all, let me tell you that at the beginning I really enjoyed the game. Even now, I see lots of potential. Although, wasted potential.

 

Problem number one: There is no real point in playing the game once you get familiar with it. You farm more frames and weapons in order to level them up, in order to raise your mastery rank, in order to unlock and buy more frames and weapons and level those up too, and raise your mastery rank even further, so you can run longer survivals/defense missions so that you have higher chances of beating the RNG and get the parts you need so you can unlock new frames and weapons to level them up and raise your mastery rank further and run the same content all over again, which was already easy in the first place. That is all.

 

It quickly gets stale. Really quickly.

 

Problem number two: This game devalues itself. Bullet jump has to go. Or at least nerfed HARD, so that it only offers movement slightly, only barely noticeably more effective than sprint. Yes, it is fun to an extent, but if it means you get to skip 90% of the content the map offers, it stops being fun. I don't pay attention to enemies, I simply jump over them. I start killing once I get to my objective. I don't pay attention to little details and the hard work that went into each map, I simply skip everything. I only memorize the layout of the corridors so that I can skip everything even faster, and remember that the textures were either green, brownish, or grey. Maps feel small and meaningless. They feel short and superficial. Enemies pose no threat and require no team work to be taken down. We just melt everything.

This is no fun at all. It's like typing in a cheat code into the game you once liked, only to realize it's no fun anymore once there is no challenge left and you have everything unlocked and available to you. It's like knowing the end of a thriller movie, and not having the enthusiasm to watch it. It's like flying mounts and portals in WoW.

 

Problem number three: Amprex and Ignis Wraith. I love Supra Vandal and Vaykor Hek, but I am at such huge disadvantage when using those compared to people using Amprex and Ignis (and most use these). I actually have to aim, take enemies out more or less individually and way slower, and run out of ammo. But why aim, when you can simply point your gun in a general direction, hold your fire button down and disintegrate everything without ever thinking about your ammo reserves. Again, cheat mode on, not fun.

 

 

Suggestion: Like I said, bullet jump has to go. Or at least nerfed HARD, so that it only offers movement slightly, only barely noticeably more effective to sprint. I use sprint only when I have Volt's buff on, and not even then in most cases. Sprint should be our main "moving fast" alternative. We should be forced to conquer every hallway, secure every entrance, clear out every stairway in order to progress further. We should be forced to pay attention to our stealth WAY WAY WAY more, and alarms should have WAY more dire consequences both in terms of scale, and the extent of the map they affect as well as the objective. Slow down the pace of the game, slow down the progression rates. The content becomes immediately more valuable, more respected and enjoyed.

 

Enemies should be much more difficult, and should require TEAM EFFORT to be taken down. Think of scaling up regular enemies to, say, Nox level. Team effort, concentrated fire. This would eliminate people sprinting ahead of each other, going astray, and would encourage grouping up, playing together, strategic and timely use of abilities and make you feel less alone and deserted. That's right, it's how I feel right now. Playing with randoms or even clan mates, I feel alone.

Encourage team play, and communication between the players. On the other hand, Wolf is just terrible design. Bullet sponge with no mechanics, just endless avoid-and-shoot until you either go out of ammo, or kill the guy.

 

Which brings me to: Make MMORPG-like dungeons/levels with trash mobs and bosses, including first-boss->etc->end-boss design, content that you access consequently, which resets in a week time. Cool loot with a drop chance, some from bosses some from trash mobs. Really hard end game stuff, not everyone can access it let alone do it. You need high level, well equipped, skilled, synced players to do it. Finite number of pre-positioned enemies, no infinite spawns that appear on top of your head. Drops... Hmm, powerful mod sets not found anywhere else? Weapons not found anywhere else? Cosmetics not found anywhere else? But really hard stuff. NOT Wolf-hard, not 6456387649286794789467 HP hard, but rather - mechanics you need to figure out, well-played out team work needed in order to overcome. You need time to learn it, to practice it.

There, playing the game has purpose again. The goal. You could pump out these dungeons at a rate, depending how hard they are and how much time it is needed for them to be conquered. Focus on quality, not quantity. Less runs, but more time and effort. Work for it, not get sick of it.

Keep the existing content as means to practice and somewhat prepare for this. Like a tutorial.

 

Amprex and Ignis Wraith type weapons need to go, or be nerfed. Other weapons should be made just as attractive to players. Think of PlanetSide2 side-progression system. People need to aim, make each bullet count, and watch their ammo reserves. Stealth made important. Quick, stealthy and well executed attacks extremely important. For each trash-mob pack. Now we're talking ninja. Adjust Saryn's and other frame's AoE abilities. You don't get to single-handedly clear anything.

 

In my opinion, people often don't know what they want. Someone commented (on my first topic) that removing or nerfing existing features would cause an uproar within the community. And I believe this person was correct. But they would love the new game even more, given the chance. People who are fed up with Warframe would come back. Heck, I see no reason to log in anymore even after a few months of playing. I don't want to run the same thing over and over again. It's incredibly dull. I already have most of the frames. The game is too easy. It offers no real challenge. It offers no real content. Just an illusion of one which can take you only so far.

 

Please, be gentle in your comments. 🙂

[Ir0nM0us3]

15 minutes ago, Facadedestroyer said:

sorry but the game problems is with its core mechanics and the formula DE are running with, no amount of fixes and half assed changes will fix that, people leave warframe because it has nothing to offer once you have almost everything this game has to offer, no end game and no game direction or principles, just rushed content that collect dust for the next rushed content that might get ''tweaked'' on the next solar eclipse with will bring even more problems and so on and on.

Hey there! Exactly, and I've addressed all of this in my post.

What did you think? Please add something you'd like.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ir0nM0us3

[ismellpestilence]

... that would break the whole game, Warframe is known also for the mobility you have, removing bullet jump is removing a core thing of the game...

 

what have you done Ir0n M0us3 ?

[Uber.Munchkin]

There is no way that bullet jump is going to be removed from the game, the hyper mobility and speed that it provides are part of the core game experience.  It wasn't originally in the game but was added by DE as a reaction to the Zoren-Coptering exploit that everyone used to speed around the place.  Once again, bullet jump was added specifically as a reaction to an exploit that everyone was using, it is clearly something that makes the game unique and enjoyable.

Same goes for the Beam weapons, they are some of the most popular weapons in the game and they are not going anywhere.

Everyone seems to love complaining about how enemies are too easy, but again, keep in mind that most of the players don't post on the forms (most probably don't even read them) and that development decisions are made based on the entire playerbase worth of data that DE can look through.  So if the enemies were as simplistic and easy for everyone as you suggest then DE would have spotted this ages ago and done something. 

Honestly I think you're playing the wrong game, everything you complain about and call for nerfs on is part of what makes Warframe different to other games in the area, without them it's just sci-fi division.

[Walkampf]

vor 43 Minuten schrieb Ir0nM0us3:

There is no real point in playing the game once you get familiar with it.

Argueing "the point" of a videogame... either you have fun with the game and play it or you don't hae fun and you stop playing.

vor 45 Minuten schrieb Ir0nM0us3:

Bullet jump has to go. Or at least nerfed HARD, so that it only offers movement slightly, only barely noticeably more effective than sprint.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

vor 46 Minuten schrieb Ir0nM0us3:

Amprex and Ignis Wraith. I love Supra Vandal and Vaykor Hek, but I am at such huge disadvantage when using those compared to people using Amprex and Ignis (and most use these).

How can you be at a disadvantage in a Co-op game?

If you simply don't like playing with people using META weapons, then don't play public.

[Test-995]

So, warframe should stop being warframe in order to achieve "challenge"?

Well, yes, i think that is true.

[Infirito]

Right, so you don't enjoy this type of looters and you want devs to completely remake the game to fit your tastes... seems legit.

[Islanzari]

Well your ideal version of warframe sounds an awful lot like destiny to me if you want this game to be like it go and play destiny. I agree that warframe has big problems particulary in enemy thoughness but removing warframe from warframe is not gonna fix warframe 🙂

[Ir0nM0us3]

I am not simply suggesting for features to be removed, but removed OR changed. Yes, I believe it would make the game immensely better. And you are correct, at the moment I am playing the wrong game, hence I will stop playing it until some significant changes occur which would lead the game into the right direction.

 

It is my right, and good will, to voice my opinion and suggest changes. I do not dabble with "majorities" and "minorities" like some do, nor do I care. I spoke out of my own perspective.

 

Every game forum is the same, regardless of the year, regardless of the game. People suggesting, white knights defending and mocking. In any case, as far as I am concerned I simply tested the waters in this game, and I don't like what I saw. It could be a great game, but only with significant, core changes. I am not spending my money on it, or playing it like I used to, until I like it again. Won't alter my life, it is just a video game. However for the company who runs it, it certainly means a lot. It is up to them to assess whether they are happy with how things are developing or not.

[Veridian]

1. Don't know about you, but the point of playing Warframe for me is to have fun.

2. Instead DE are creating content around bullet jumping (Gas city), your idea is horrible, why make it like everything else, if anyone wanted that, we'd be playing Destiny.

3. This reaffirms your point of starting not so long ago, learn what each weapon is good for. Off course an Ignis would be better for trash mobs compared to a shotgun.

 

As for your suggestions, maybe you should look at other games. Like almost every other, which gives you exactly that, controlled fights with limited mobility and "team play".
Sure stealth should be a bit more necessary in some places, but just because it's not as rewarding doesn't mean you can't have a go at it.
I'm here because I don't need to rely on "team play" by a team of pinheads like every other cancer of an online game, I doubt I'm alone in this.
Dungeons?
1st - DE have confirmed they're bringing those back.
2nd - It's not a real end game boss fight without a 1 week CD is it? (Hint: Eidolons, Orbs)
As for the beam weapons, they're fine, it's ARs and bows that need a buff. Also every time I see a "nerf Saryn" call I can see the vailed "I used my dmg buff and she did more" cry from a Rhino.

I agree people don't know what they want. For instance, you want Destiny.

 

P.S. this game didn't get where it is for being a CoD clone.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ver1dian

[Zephyr_TheMLGPro]

First of all i think you made some valid and some invalid points in your post. But I'm sick of seeing these white knights jumping in and straight up throwing insults, and i doubt they even read the post.

The dungeons like idea you posted was good, i think that should probably be added to ESO, you get a boss wave every 4th rotation. 

[Ir0nM0us3]

15 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

2nd - It's not a real end game boss fight without a 1 week CD is it? (Hint: Eidolons)

Yeah, Eidolons are also incredibly dull..

 

Edit: again, the idea is not a bad one, but the execution - too short, not deep enough, not fleshed out etc.

 

My whole point is: this video game is like a fast-food restaurant. I'd like it to be 3 Michelin star worthy, you'd prefer it stayed McDonalds.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ir0nM0us3

[Islanzari]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Ir0nM0us3:

Well, if Warframe revolves around bullet-jump mechanism and shallow mechanics, then it really is one sorry excuse for a game. But, I see more in it.

 

Ok answer me this: if you tried really hard to design a tourist route for sightseeing, would you think it was a good idea to have your tourists driven through it in high speed? Or do you believe it would be better if they had the chance to actually experience all of it?

 

When you drink good wine (assuming you ever did) do you just gulp it down greedily or do you enjoy small sips and savor its taste? How about a well prepared meal?

 

Do you fast forward a good movie?

 

How much time do you spend with beautiful women? Do you rush the experience, or do you want it to last? (again, assuming... xD )

 

I don't drink or do Marijuana, to answer two of your questions.

 

But I can see how deep your thoughts go, based on your replies and your questions. You must be the target group of such successful mechanics. 🙂

Do u watch formel 1 at 1/100th the speed. That argument is bs and you know it

[Veridian]

2 minutes ago, Ir0nM0us3 said:

Yeah, Eidolons are also incredibly dull..

 

Edit: again, the idea is not a bad one, but the execution - too short, not deep enough, not fleshed out etc.

 

My whole point is: this video game is like a fast-food restaurant. I'd like it to be 3 Michelin star worthy, you'd prefer it stayed McDonalds.

Holy hell, no, you just want another burger joint, same as the rest, but "special".

[Ir0nM0us3]

1 minute ago, Islanzari said:

Do u watch formel 1 at 1/100th the speed. That argument is bs and you know it

You are not asking a valid question. It should be - do you watch Formula one for the whole duration, or only 1 lap?

[sleepychewbacca]

1 hour ago, Ir0nM0us3 said:

Suggestion: Like I said, bullet jump has to go. Or at least nerfed HARD, so that it only offers movement slightly, only barely noticeably more effective to sprint. I

Not going to lie, I read up to this part and immediately had to disagree. Taking away bullet jumping would be a huge no for me, as the movement, and going through levels fast is something I enjoy. I remember hating Destiny 2 because it was slow in movement compared to Warframe. 

But, to reply to your post that you took time to write: 

1) Seems like a self-made problem. I'm MR27, and at 509/509 of all items I can obtain as a non-founder. Right now, while waiting for Gas City, I'm exploring all the nodes with different weapons and even meme builds to see what I've missed out on. Nothing stale and boring there. There's no reason to rush, other than you wanting to rush. MR16 is the soft cap for all the game has to offer. Anything after is quality of life benefits. Do you have to rush? That's up to you. 

2) Yeah, it's a hell no from me on this. 

3) The problems go much deeper than buffing or nerfing an enemy or damage output. The whole system needs to be reworked. Armour classing, enemies, damage phases, how damage stacks, powercreep, etc. What you've suggested is imo, a bandaid on a whole thing. 
 
Lastly, If you want better traction with the Devs on this, better off posting this in Feedback. GD is just for 'discussion's' sake and the Devs don't really read anything here. 

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, Ir0nM0us3 said:

Problem number one: There is no real point in playing the game once you get familiar with it. You farm more frames and weapons in order to level them up, in order to raise your mastery rank, in order to unlock and buy more frames and weapons and level those up too, and raise your mastery rank even further, so you can run longer survivals/defense missions so that you have higher chances of beating the RNG and get the parts you need so you can unlock new frames and weapons to level them up and raise your mastery rank further and run the same content all over again, which was already easy in the first place. That is all.

 

It quickly gets stale. Really quickly.

I knew that before started and decided to value the community more than the game itself.

1 hour ago, Ir0nM0us3 said:

 

Problem number two: This game devalues itself. Bullet jump has to go. Or at least nerfed HARD, so that it only offers movement slightly, only barely noticeably more effective than sprint. Yes, it is fun to an extent, but if it means you get to skip 90% of the content the map offers, it stops being fun. I don't pay attention to enemies, I simply jump over them. I start killing once I get to my objective. I don't pay attention to little details and the hard work that went into each map, I simply skip everything. I only memorize the layout of the corridors so that I can skip everything even faster, and remember that the textures were either green, brownish, or grey. Maps feel small and meaningless. They feel short and superficial. Enemies pose no threat and require no team work to be taken down. We just melt everything.

This is no fun at all. It's like typing in a cheat code into the game you once liked, only to realize it's no fun anymore once there is no challenge left and you have everything unlocked and available to you. It's like knowing the end of a thriller movie, and not having the enthusiasm to watch it. It's like flying mounts and portals in WoW

Uuuh.... thats a YOU problem.... if you want move slowly and open lockers all day then do that... don't force us to suffer because theres definitely no content in much of those mapz....if there was then players obviously wouldn't e skipping it....

This is literally The Itzal Fiasco All of again extended to Warframes.

In any case.... Nerf it.... I still have Volt Prime and Naramon's Mind Sprint....you can't stop all of us !!! 😠

1 hour ago, Ir0nM0us3 said:

 

 

Problem number three: Amprex and Ignis Wraith. I love Supra Vandal and Vaykor Hek, but I am at such huge disadvantage when using those compared to people using Amprex and Ignis (and most use these). I actually have to aim, take enemies out more or less individually and way slower, and run out of ammo. But why aim, when you can simply point your gun in a general direction, hold your fire button down and disintegrate everything without ever thinking about your ammo reserves. Again, cheat mode on, not fun.

Uhm.... Amprex does require Precision and unless you're Chroma Ignis stops being Viable pretty #*!%ing quickly...

Supra and VHek are pretty strong.... just go deeper into harder Content and you will overtake the Wraith Boys.... I don't see them In ESO or Profit Taker.... 

 

[Uber.Munchkin]

So because we don't agree with you our opinions are worthless and we can be dismissed as 'white knights'.  Right.  That makes plenty of sense.

The point I am trying to make here is that the things you are complaining about are the things that make Warframe something other that just another looter-shooter with a cool look to it.  The movement and crazy weapons make this game interesting and fun. 

All your various analogies don't make any sense to me, Warframe isn't a tourist route through a beautiful city or a fine glass of wine, it's a demolition derby played at a million miles per hour inside a specially crafted arena.  You wouldn't want to slow that down because if you do it's just boring.

It does just honestly sound like you want a fundamentally different game to the rest of us, you want Destiny or The Division, both of which are great games, but they are not Warframe.

[(PSN)thowed]

There's plenty of other games like you're describing you want Warframe to be.  Sorry I don't wanna play Gears of War again.  If you're bored after clearing the star chart and think ignis is OP then either play more at higher levels or this probably isn't the game for you.

[0_The_F00l]

I am going to make an unpopular opinion and agree with most of OP points,

so disclaimer,

I know what I am about to say is boo worthy according to a lot of people. But I will give my reasons, you don't have to agree with me.

Progression: 

The game is in perpetual beta, the lore has been losing consistency and the Devs are more focused on the graphics and tennogen, feels almost like they are making one long extended tech demo than an actual game. I have had this feeling ever since they released ESO that they want to push and see what they can make in the engine more than what players want to play. 

The feeling of "what now, I already have most of the stuff" causes people to leave and come back after breaks. The replay ability of the game is very low (not to be confused with the grind required), it takes a lot of grinding to reach this level so I don't think a majority of players would need to complain. 

I am willing to let this go, warframe has not hidden their approach and have said that this year is supposed to be for addressing these inconsistencies in the "year of quality" let us see how it is. 

Bullet jump:

I don't personally have a problem with the pace of the game, I like bullet jump, but let's think about why bullet jump exists. 

It exists as a replacement of coptering, why was coptering a thing? Cause it allowed traversal of large rooms. Rooms that were mostly empty. 

So the problem isn't the actual mechanic, problem is that the objective is miles away from starting point and there is not much to be done between now and then. If there were smaller incremental challenges and the final objective was relatively closer then bullet jump would be a lot more fun and less of a chore.

A small but dense map is a lot more fun than a large sparse map with nothing to do in it.

I don't want bullet jump to go, I want more reasons to use it less. 

The cheese:

This is directly tied with the above two problems, since there is high grind but low replay value, players will want to do as much of the stuff in as little time as possible. And this leads to cheese builds and weapons, and the inherent power creep that has caused aoe weapons to be more effective than single shot ones. The other weapons are still very good its just the cheeses that use it more often.

They do need to rework the entire scaling problem both our weapons and enemy armor so even a nerf to our weapons in the end won't hurt us. 

 

[Ir0nM0us3]

1 hour ago, Uber.Munchkin said:

So because we don't agree with you our opinions are worthless and we can be dismissed as 'white knights'.  Right.  That makes plenty of sense.

The point I am trying to make here is that the things you are complaining about are the things that make Warframe something other that just another looter-shooter with a cool look to it.  The movement and crazy weapons make this game interesting and fun. 

All your various analogies don't make any sense to me, Warframe isn't a tourist route through a beautiful city or a fine glass of wine, it's a demolition derby played at a million miles per hour inside a specially crafted arena.  You wouldn't want to slow that down because if you do it's just boring.

It does just honestly sound like you want a fundamentally different game to the rest of us, you want Destiny or The Division, both of which are great games, but they are not Warframe.

Dude, this topic is not about you or your white knight friends, I've stated my issues with the game, you stated you disagree, that's fine I accept and respect your tastes even though you don't respect mine, now go away and don't pollute my topic anymore. You have been heard. It's fine. I am not trying to change your minds, I don't actually care about your opinions. We cool on that?

[Ir0nM0us3]

36 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

feels almost like they are making one long extended tech demo than an actual game

Thank you, you have nailed what I have felt but haven't found the right words for it. Sums it up about right.

And I do agree with what else you said. I WOULD prefer the slower pace of the game, like much slower, but yeah, I guess if they scaled the rooms by a lot, and make levels absolutely huge, I wouldn't mind the bullet jump in its current state. Also, it would be mandatory to actually make the mid-mission stuff relevant as well, not just make levels 'race from start to finish', you know?

[George_PPS]

Mobility of Warframes is a big thing, and bullet jumping is one of the best features of the movement system.

On the weapons, you can always try different weapons and make them more powerful. Amprex and Ignis type of weapons is not the only weapon type that is fun. There are many more to choose from and test if you can optimize the builds well after testing. 

[Ir0nM0us3]

1 minute ago, George_PPS said:

Mobility of Warframes is a big thing, and bullet jumping is one of the best features of the movement system.

On the weapons, you can always try different weapons and make them more powerful. Amprex and Ignis type of weapons is not the only weapon type that is fun. There are many more to choose from and test if you can optimize the builds well after testing. 

I DO enjoy the mobility in itself, I will give you that. But is it worth it in the end, if said mobility ruins the overall gameplay experience? Using bullet jump enables you to not fight anyone for like 95% of the mission, and allows you to skip everyone and everything until the objective/exit itself. Fine, leave the bullet jump. How to address this issue alternatively?

 

The problem I have with the weapons: if I use Supra Vandal, which kills incredibly fast, and a guy is using Ignis/Amprex, I almost have nothing left to kill. He's killed everything already, I'm just picking off the leftovers. His damage done is 90%, mine is 10%. I have been useless. His body count is 400+, mine is 70. I have been useless. Maybe he's a cool guy, he doesn't mind pulling my own weight, right? Ok, fine. But, I haven't had fun myself. Was my idea of fun to bullet jump to the level exit? No. No it wasn't.

[Uber.Munchkin]

16 minutes ago, Ir0nM0us3 said:

Dude, this topic is not about you or your white knight friends, I've stated my issues with the game, you stated you disagree, that's fine I accept and respect your tastes even though you don't respect mine, now go away and don't pollute my topic anymore. You have been heard. It's fine. I am not trying to change your minds, I don't actually care about your opinions. We cool on that?

My point was that you are the person who started out with the directed insults not anyone else here.  You want to change the game into something that isn't Warframe, you can't expect that no one will object to that.  Also, last time I checked you weren't a mod and don't get to direct where people can and cannot post replies and content on the thread.

The topic isn't about you either, I don't think I made any personal attacks in my posts but you seem to be reacting as if I were attacking you personally for disagreeing with you.

I don't care about you opinions either, what I care about is continuing to get to play a game that I enjoy.  To that end I'm going to continue to respond to people trying to push an agenda I don't agree with.  You don't like that, stop posting stuff about how that game isn't to your specific taste and go find one that is.

Good luck.