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[DE]Rebecca

Estimated Release: The Jovian Concord

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12 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

They flatout said a few weeks before the last devstream that we would get AT LEAST New War before Tennocon only to then admit they're behind on everything.

It's almost like game development is hard and upredictable, making release date announcements impossible.

18 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

People keep saying this over and over. You seem to completely forget that, even with delays, DE always releases updates full of bugs and crashes.

What about all the way worse bugs that we don't see?

Obviously, DE's no massive AAA studio that can afford thousands of testers, but they catch some pretty severe bugs in testing we never even experience.

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The only release that I have experienced as game-breakingly buggy was Plains of Eidolon. Everything else, to my experience, has been a pretty smooth launch in terms of bugs.

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16 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

It's almost like game development is hard and upredictable, making release date announcements impossible.

What about all the way worse bugs that we don't see?

Obviously, DE's no massive AAA studio that can afford thousands of testers, but they catch some pretty severe bugs in testing we never even experience.

Then don't GIVE release dates, much less when you'll immediately say you can't deliver.

What about bugs like being unable to transfer back to your Warframe which exists for a long time? What about being unable to finish a mission because the enemy decides to not spawn or spawn behind a wall? The new wolf missions being locked down because the final enemy spawned BEHIND the door that's still locked? Being unable to use anything but your equipped weapon if you get knocked down during the Archgun summoning animation? Where are the fixes for THESE since they're so interested in delaying content in order to fix bugs?

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Posted (edited)

lmfao at all those fanboying comments of love " take your time DE, we love you , release it next week , we prefer to have a smoother game " are just as nauseating & silly as they come.

No matter how long they delay something, there's always a handful of hotfixes following if not a plethora of them in the worst cases so just knock it off with those white knighting love messages lmfao.

The team never really learns, flash news it's a MAINLINE ? they've worked and faced the same situation over and over in the past months/years, they always dare to post a big fat announcement " next week " and then when that week comes they start editing with a bunch of " we still hope, we aim to..., etc "

Since it's everytime the same story and since i refuse to believe that they haven't learned what a hell of a week they have each time a Mainline or big update is closing in, they need to just stop posting announcements of something even as vague as "NEXT WEEK" and people won't get so upset...

Post 1 hour before the deployement and call it a day.

Nvm just don't post anything, SURPRISE us for once

 

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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1 minute ago, Ephemiel said:

Then don't GIVE release dates, much less when you'll immediately say you can't deliver.

Consider what you've been doing for the past day or so.

DE probably would like nothing better than to be able to not have to give release dates for most of their content. Unfortunately, the human mind of the customers doesn't work like that. People really want to know when things are happening when they're excited for them. So they complain if that's not provided. There was an entire thread questioning why DE doesn't do 'proper' release dates just a short while back.

4 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

What about bugs like being unable to transfer back to your Warframe which exists for a long time? What about being unable to finish a mission because the enemy decides to not spawn or spawn behind a wall? The new wolf missions being locked down because the final enemy spawned BEHIND the door that's still locked? Being unable to use anything but your equipped weapon if you get knocked down during the Archgun summoning animation? Where are the fixes for THESE since they're so interested in delaying content in order to fix bugs?

Because a lot of bugs can't be fixed. Seriously.

Most long-standing bugs in any game are caused by unintended interactions in early code with newer code. Most of the early code has massive amounts of other stuff relying on it. Look again at a lot of these bugs - they're not bugs with new content, they're bugs with core systems that only manifest with new content (relative to the systems, that is).

The Warframe thing, for example, is about what is effectively a weapon switch - same for arch gun. Or the spawning issues - the fugitives during the hunt used an unusual staggered spawn method that to my knowledge hadn't been used in that way, and many 'spawn in a wall' glitches occur in newer tiles or tilesets, at least compared to the spawning code which is pretty much as old as the game, as far as we can tell - for example, those appearing in PoE. Fixing those bugs means changing that code - which in turn would result in potentially hundreds of bugs or the entire game breaking. At best they can fix individual instances by jerry-rigging it.

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3 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Consider what you've been doing for the past day or so.

DE probably would like nothing better than to be able to not have to give release dates for most of their content. Unfortunately, the human mind of the customers doesn't work like that. People really want to know when things are happening when they're excited for them. So they complain if that's not provided. There was an entire thread questioning why DE doesn't do 'proper' release dates just a short while back.

Because a lot of bugs can't be fixed. Seriously.

Most long-standing bugs in any game are caused by unintended interactions in early code with newer code. Most of the early code has massive amounts of other stuff relying on it. Look again at a lot of these bugs - they're not bugs with new content, they're bugs with core systems that only manifest with new content (relative to the systems, that is).

The Warframe thing, for example, is about what is effectively a weapon switch - same for arch gun. Or the spawning issues - the fugitives during the hunt used an unusual staggered spawn method that to my knowledge hadn't been used in that way, and many 'spawn in a wall' glitches occur in newer tiles or tilesets, at least compared to the spawning code which is pretty much as old as the game, as far as we can tell - for example, those appearing in PoE. Fixing those bugs means changing that code - which in turn would result in potentially hundreds of bugs or the entire game breaking. At best they can fix individual instances by jerry-rigging it.

Its not that the bugs cant be fixed, its that the development cycle for DE is very bad and they need to get in some professional management. Rush to get out update, rush to fix bugs, unable to fix bugs because they have to ignore them to rush to put out the next update. They wont put out or fix bugs because they are pulling an EA right now worrying about quantity over quality.

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will we finally be able to kick some lotus ass for leaving us hanging?

 

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12 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Because a lot of bugs can't be fixed. Seriously.

Wow. You actually said this.You know the saying from Tropic Thunder, "You never go full R-word"? You went full R-word right there.

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Just now, Ephemiel said:

Wow. You actually said this.You know the saying from Tropic Thunder, "You never go full R-word"? You went full R-word right there.

They say.

Ignoring the reasons why detailed underneath.

8 minutes ago, Aphelion_Sole said:

Its not that the bugs cant be fixed, its that the development cycle for DE is very bad and they need to get in some professional management. Rush to get out update, rush to fix bugs, unable to fix bugs because they have to ignore them to rush to put out the next update. They wont put out or fix bugs because they are pulling an EA right now worrying about quantity over quality.

So, when should they find the time to rewrite most of the game's code?

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2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

They say.

Ignoring the reasons why detailed underneath.

You literally said "a lot of bugs can't be fixed. Seriously". There's really no reason you can give to justify saying something so wrong.

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Just now, Ephemiel said:

You literally said "a lot of bugs can't be fixed. Seriously". There's really no reason you can give to justify saying something so wrong.

Not even the fact that fixing most of these bugs would be akin to rebuilding a skyscraper from the bottom up?

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Just now, Loza03 said:

Not even the fact that fixing most of these bugs would be akin to rebuilding a skyscraper from the bottom up?

No. Because many of these bugs are just happily allowed to remain, regardless of how damaging they are. They actively SHOULD be doing everything possible to make sure these issues are fixed. They haven't even acknowledged that some of these bugs exist, Profit-Taker can be impossible if the archgun bug hits you since you'll be able to change weapons at all.

But lord knows the fun police at DE immediately decide to fix bugs that are actually liked like coptering when it returned with the Tatsu.

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Posted (edited)
hace 34 minutos, Loza03 dijo:

Consider what you've been doing for the past day or so.

DE probably would like nothing better than to be able to not have to give release dates for most of their content. Unfortunately, the human mind of the customers doesn't work like that. People really want to know when things are happening when they're excited for them. So they complain if that's not provided. There was an entire thread questioning why DE doesn't do 'proper' release dates just a short while back.

Because a lot of bugs can't be fixed. Seriously.

Most long-standing bugs in any game are caused by unintended interactions in early code with newer code. Most of the early code has massive amounts of other stuff relying on it. Look again at a lot of these bugs - they're not bugs with new content, they're bugs with core systems that only manifest with new content (relative to the systems, that is).

The Warframe thing, for example, is about what is effectively a weapon switch - same for arch gun. Or the spawning issues - the fugitives during the hunt used an unusual staggered spawn method that to my knowledge hadn't been used in that way, and many 'spawn in a wall' glitches occur in newer tiles or tilesets, at least compared to the spawning code which is pretty much as old as the game, as far as we can tell - for example, those appearing in PoE. Fixing those bugs means changing that code - which in turn would result in potentially hundreds of bugs or the entire game breaking. At best they can fix individual instances by jerry-rigging it.

"Unfortunately, the human mind of the customers doesn't work like that"

Even easier to solve ... dont promote (dont create hype to content that some times takes months if not more to even be close to ready) content that you have no idea if or when you are going to release .

And if you still for some reason give dates that you have no idea if you could keep at least put a person in charge of communicate with the players about the delays and deadlines .... not a 14 pages forum thread in where nobody answer  (and for that you dont need thousans of employes ... just 1 person that spend 30 minutes at most of his day to stay in the forum)

Edited by Yagamilight123
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3 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

No. Because many of these bugs are just happily allowed to remain, regardless of how damaging they are. They actively SHOULD be doing everything possible to make sure these issues are fixed. They haven't even acknowledged that some of these bugs exist, Profit-Taker can be impossible if the archgun bug hits you since you'll be able to change weapons at all.

But lord knows the fun police at DE immediately decide to fix bugs that are actually liked like coptering when it returned with the Tatsu.

No, actually.

Think about it: Weapon switching is one of the game's oldest systems. Every single weapon in the entire game relies on that code to some degree. That means that changing it most likely means there is a good chance they wind up being unable to change anything else in regards to weapons because that code is in flux. And, since that code is in flux, unintentional effects to seemingly unrelated systems regarding weapons might occur. Remember when they rebalanced player weapons? Even though they were pretty sure that enemies weren't effected, DE still asked players to ask if they had, because there was a chance that the weapon code might be somehow linked.

Using the spawning example - that's even worse. Even assuming that spawning for environment items, players and loot works off of different code to spawning ai-controlled mobile entities, that still means they can't work on anything that involves mobile entities - in other words, they can't work on any content that involves enemies. At all. And since it would produce dozens, maybe even hundreds of bugs in entity spawning in the meantime, that means they wouldn't be able to do so for months, even at full tilt. It'd be even worse if it affected Item spawning, Loot spawning and Player spawning because that's even more systems that have to work. This is because they would not only need to fix the one bug - enemies spawning in player inaccessible areas - they would need to fix every single bug they create in the meantime, the process of which would create more. This is actually the case for all coding, which is why it takes so long and is so unpredictable. The older code is, the more this happens, as more code relies on it to function.

Hence the skyscraper analogy - the earliest bricks are the first laid, and fixing them is the most dangerous because every other brick above them relies on it for support. Since this is foundation code they're working with, that means that huge amounts of the game are relying on this code, which means that changing it changes vast amounts of the game in unintended ways - producing bugs.

It would most likely take at least half a year, especially if all spawning is run by the same code. During which time they couldn't do anything.

 

Or they could just patch any reported areas which are unintentionally flagged as 'enemies can spawn here' and change the flag.

 

8 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said:

"Unfortunately, the human mind of the customers doesn't work like that"

Even easier to solve ... dont promote (dont create hype to content that some times takes months if not more to even be close to ready) content that you have no idea if or when you are going to release .

"Don't advertise in one of the largest and most competitive markets of the modern entertainment industry."

That will work well./s

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I've been sleeping for like 16 hours and still no update.

At this point I'd be amazed if the update drops within this millennium.

Just... just come on out and tell us it won't drop this year at all. I'm getting tired of your "Next week, guys!" turning into "Maybe next week, okay?" and then into "lol what update".

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On 2019-05-08 at 3:02 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

MAY 16 UPDATE:

Good afternoon, Tenno! Next week is our more realistic launch week. We wouldn't be able to deliver and iterate on a build with the time remaining this work week. We will bring everything to the finish line Friday, take the weekend, and come out swinging next week.

As an FYI, the studio is closed Monday for a Canadian Statutory holiday (another huge factor in pushing to next week)! So you'll hear from us Tuesday. By now you've got a good sense of what's coming (and maybe a few surprises remain), competitive clans have the information they need to start their rosters, and more.

Cheers and stay tuned!

 

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It doesnt matter if they delay it next week to "fix" and "polish" the coming update, it will still be the very players who are waiting now who will find bugs and mechanics that need changes/improvements. Why? Because the update isnt tested by mass players and no one to give feedback. This is why MMO's or other Multi games have Public Test Servers (eg. Black Desert, Archeage) who releases updates big or small weeks prior in their PTS so they can apply proper changes ON release.

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Thanks for keeping us updated Rebb 🙂 Have a good rest of the week at the studio!

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5 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Does this mean Wisps alt helm will not be in the Nightwave Season 2 credit reward pool?

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16 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Thanks for the update. Had a feeling next week would be more realistic. I refrained from notifying my clan for this exact reason. Glad you guys are keeping it honest.

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Posted (edited)

I have never heard of any other decent game delaying their patch by a week when they announce a week for it.
Why not just give realistic release dates when you are 99% sure you'll make it?

Edited by Moyase
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Rip. It's fine do what you need to DE. I hope baro at least brings something like prisma fluctus or something that is kinda content and not a disappointment for the weekend.

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