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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Nightwave Changes for Series 2

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-05-10 at 6:53 PM, [DE]Bear said:

This is the place to do so. Feedback is welcomed!

As a player with 1200+ hour ingame time. I understand that you are thinking of newcomers but as veterans, we really need something different than regular gameplay. Because we love this game and want to play it but we did that regular "survive sabotage rescue, killing, etc.." missions too much that I really feel like we need fresh challenges as "Spy in operator mode" which is different than regular gameplay. TBH I sometimes find myself trying to finish the entire star chart without any mods just for fun and challenge. I personally enjoy riven mod unveil challenges which can be also added in nightwave pool.

Besides that 

-Finish X mission without a bullet jump.
-Finish X mission (weapon type & 1 2 3 4 skill & even companion or sentinel) only
-Kill or Scan (number) (enemy type eg. charger or elite lancer)
-Scan (number) of X enemy at (planet) without being detected in Y mission type. (I prefer helios scan not count)
-Capture target without killing anyone else.
-Complete a bounty without getting down from Archwing.
-Farm (number) (resource) (and maybe with a condition)
-Kill (number) enemy while being affected by (arcane)(okay newcomers might struggle to do this)

And please remove the missions which would make me waste resources in a rush. such as forma 3 times because I waste a bunch of forma when I had a lot of them and now I need them for some weapons but now I need to wait its crafting time. you know some weapons need 8 forma to maxed out.

Please don't force players what to do with resources but tell how to play in different ways.

Edit: Also Survive 60 min and 40 waves def were the only things that veterans would enjoy a little bit at least but you cut both in half is pretty much idk what to say.

IF YOU CANT FIND BALANCE BETWEEN NEWBIES AND VETERANS THEN DONT TRY TO FIND BALANCE. Because you will lose either veterans or newbies on this run there is no middle ground for both.

Just add veteran exclusive missions like arbitration more and push the limits even further. Warframe community plays way more effective then you think.

Edited by WythOfNyth
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59 minutes ago, WythOfNyth said:

Edit: Also Survive 60 min and 40 waves def were the only things that veterans would enjoy a little bit at least but you cut both in half is pretty much idk what to say.

 

Veteran here, not really - too long a time commitment in comparison to other weeklies. Not everyone has time to do the same mission for an hour long *yawn*. You can still enjoy your long runs without it being tied to a challenge. I would prefer things were more difficult for a shorter amount of time, challenging without being too tedious.
 

On 2019-05-10 at 3:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:
  • Ayatan Socket requirement for Acts lowered from 5 to 3
  •  

I know I will still not fill ayatans until this challenge pops up (and I don't even need the endo from the sculptures really, imagine players who need endo now hoarding sculptures and stars until this challenge comes up). This ruins flow/the natural way players play the game, and should be removed completely. Can amend this to find 3 sculptures in a week, or pick up X number of ayatan stars in a week if you need an ayatan based challenge. 

 

On 2019-05-10 at 3:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:
  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

 

Interesting, would be great to see more in-mission challenges like this spread across daily, weekly and elite weekly challenges. Have seen a few in this thread including, but not limited to, imposing sortie-like play conditions on oneself (e.g run 3 missions bow-only). Run a capture mission without killing any other enemies. Capture/kill teralyst solo. Complete Hydrolyst capture/kill in under 15mins (elite of course). Could introduce 4 rounds of Interception without losing a point, I am sure there are plenty of others I did not see, but it would be great to play a mission with a side-objective along with the usual mission objective. 

 

 

On 2019-05-10 at 3:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:
  • Complete 3 different K-Drive races in Orb Vallis 

 

 

On 2019-05-10 at 3:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:
  • 'With Clanmates / Friends' Act requirements have been removed completely
  •  

Lol, okay so for a game with a built-in LFG channel people struggled to find one other person to run a mission with? Surely not. Also would I rather go into recruitment chat and find someone to add as a friend and do profit taker with, or pretend I am Michael J. Fox and race around Orbs in my hoverboard? Probably the former tbh. This game is already solo-able, there should be more work put into people wanting to squad up with friends / make friends with other players and have fun with it. No real harm in beginning to change a player's mindset towards group play. Raids had this, and the game is really lacking this sense of community in-game now since there is almost no reason to go into any missions as a squad.

 

 

 

Not mentioned in original post but gilding items / adding forma should be removed as not many players add 3 forma or gild items weekly (especially people who have gilded all they intended to gild). I feel the only challenge to forcing players to do things based on an in-game timer is challenging them to keep logging in to the game or to take a break. I guess if this is always a weekly. with the proposed catch up mechanic you could just ignore this one until you have a week where you can do this and use the catch up mechanic to bring the act back into play, but that's unnecessarily tedious. Can add crafting forma instead of using forma. 24 hours to craft a forma, can do 3 in a week relatively easily.  

 

Also as feedback for assassins, can they be changed to allow them to spawn more than once in endless variant missions? Would be great to have multiple chances of assassin type enemies spawning whilst running up to rotation C on defense. Maybe every 5mins or so there would be a chance for an assassin to spawn in endless missions. Would also be great if assassins could be added to ESO and it's normal variant.  

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I have a question For DE: Will we still be able to get the rank up rewards such as the unique mods and Saturn six syanada/armor? I havent been able to play Warframe that much as of late and would still like to be able to earn those eventually.

Edited by Nova73

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On 2019-05-10 at 4:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:

2) Degrindification!

 

On 2019-05-10 at 4:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Increase the Sanctuary Onslaught Acts from 3 rounds to 8 rounds

these two simply does not go together... it was good 3 zones to beguin with.

i do welcome other mentioned changes also would like to add 'use 3 forma' to 1, and 'gild modular weapon' to 'build modular weapon'. i do not see reason not to degrindification some challanges as well. you can always do more if you want to and i dont see reason why should be 'tasked' to do so.

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Posted (edited)

Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

Please no. Can I reverse my Tenno con package please. Here I was thinking "I haven't given DE any money lately, I'll get the Tenno con package", and then you do this to me. Are you now going to try and wedge more Lunaro, and Framefighter into Warframe? Please let me know now if that is on the way, Id appreciate it.

 

Trransmute mods? That seems completely useless, not to mention a waste of credits. I assume that means forma something 3 times, and guild something are still in. WHY would I waste the resourced to guild or forma something if I have already guilded all of the things, and/or dont need to forma anything?

 

Edited by Mos-Eisley
typo
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11 hours ago, Reaper76OTP said:

> Acquire a death mark

We already have "Complete 3 Assassination missions" and "Complete 3 Invasion missions".

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I say to get rid of the rare mining amd fishing because it takes up too much time. Especially to catch a rare fish you pretty much have to have special bait which lower MRs will probably not have access to. 

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Can you also get rid of the forma and resource related acts? we don`t need to be wasting resources that we have to grind to accumulate for 3,000 standing and this is something ppl have been getting upset over so just get rid of it.

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On 2019-05-10 at 10:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Wolf Creds will expire after Series 1 - spend them while it's active!

When will Series 1 conclude? Will this happen when the Jovian Concord will be introduced into the mainline?

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14 hours ago, (XB1)KiryuStark said:

This is a good point. I love my operator but the toggle from walk to run is so minimal that I sometimes dont even know what mode I'm in. Maybe increase the run speed a bit so they feel like an actual person instead of a bug trapped on a sticky pad. 

I have talked about operators on a post including running speed. You can take a look here;

 

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Posted (edited)

Please add a new tile or map for the special nightwave bosses instead of the same boss rooms as other bosses (Wolf using Sargas Ruk)

Saw some trying to bypass the lockdown in tactical alert with the liset support charge despite it trying to enforce killing enemies on the way to wolf (they trying to farm more quicker and trying to pass the fake wolf spawns like vey hek where you can skip) 

My challenge suggestions, I'm going for quick or new/mid player issues to try help them learn from the game or obtain mods instead of getting frustrated that they're max rank and the game benefits lvl very little(as opposed to other rpgs) since its a small increase of health or energy etc and its mainly by the installation of mods to be stronger:

-Farm X amount of common resource (like poly or spores etc)

-complete a challenge room in the void

-Turn in an ayatan sculpture or x amount of stars or full sculpture to Maroo

-Summon clem in a mission

-Scan certain plants

-complete x amount of certain archwing mission (gotta prep for Empyrean)

-said something on region or recruit or trade chat

-travel low amount with K-drive 

-defeat grineer manic at defection

-play a dark sector survival for 30 mins or dark sector defense 

-defeat any tusk thumper 

-perform x amount of stealth kills

 

Vets: 

-beat an extermination under x time

-use archgun in mission and get x amount kills

-beat x round(s) at infested salvage solo without losing a vaporizer

-go with all dragon keys in a assassination

Edited by (PS4)Killerworld

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Looks like some people actually have a problem even with petting their kavat / kubrow... Guys, you can't please everyone 😄

The changes are very welcome, thank you for all this! I'm looking forward for the new story and Nightwave 2 in general! 😊

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-05-10 at 9:21 AM, clxrffdman said:

Act Suggestions:

Elite: Finish the Hydrolyst bounty in under 20 minutes.

Elite: Complete a Kuva Flood Mission in under 8 minutes.

Elite: Defeat Kela De Thaym in under 10 minutes.

Daily: Shake hands with someone of the same syndicate.

Weekly: Win a match of Frame Fighter.

Weekly: Complete the previous mastery test in Simaris's relay section.

I really like these ideas. I was thinking they should have different tier challenges for noobs/casual players and vets. Like if you have over 1000 hours get access to greater challenges like this with more standing as a reward. But have it optional to do those more difficult challenges at the start of the season, so that they can have more of a challenge and get more of a reward if they choose.

Brand new players til 250 hours and/or mr5 should have much more obtainable and easier challenges to make it easier on them, like:

Defeat vor/Alad V/Sargus ruk etc., craft a new frame or weapon, talk to all the NPCs in fortuna/cetus/relay, play with a clan member or friend, and of course all the easy challenges like bullet jump, specific damage type, specific mission type, etc. Otherwise night wave is a lot harder on newer players and they can't access nitain or catalysts.

Over 500 hours played and/or mr6-19 maybe keep the challenges the same as they have been, with moderate time limits thrown in here and there.

Over 1000 hours played and/or mr20+  have harder challenges like the ones you mentioned, ESPECIALLY timed boss fights, I think there should be great reward for a great challenge that's still fun! And there definitely should be more reward for friends and clanmates who play together. Because if you have a challenge like a 20 minute trip cap, you're generally communicating and you probably play regularly with those people. 

Let's get different tiers of reward for the same challenge!

Example: complete Tri cap (limit one maybe two times per night wave cycle, to prevent easily grinding ranks).

In 30 minutes-5000 standing

In 25 minutes-7500 standing

In 20 minutes-10k standing

15 minutes-20k standing

10-13ish minutes 50k standing

This way, there's not the mentality of "I'm gonna finish this mission to get the standing", but instead "I can't mess up, we need to work well together as a team and go fast so we can get a bunch of night wave ranks!"

'Complete' would be as soon as the hydrolyst dies and is capped.

What do y'all think?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by (PS4)Hellmans_Fury
Clarified stipulation to how many times high reward challenges would appear per night wave cycle

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On 2019-05-13 at 3:58 PM, Zelmen said:

So what happens on Uranus when you have to go underwater? Guess you're going to have to let our operators use Archwings now and K Decks.

I think they means a Apy of your choose. So why don't you simply don't do that one?

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-05-10 at 9:54 AM, [DE]Bear said:
  • Transmute 12 Mods 

I hate this one simply because it will require buying cores with Simaris standing, which means doing daily synthesis tasks to earn the standing first, which just adds yet another layer of grind that I have to do before even being able to complete the challenge. Please do not add (and please remove) challenges that create a resource drain for the player. This challenge should not be added, and the challenges for forma'ing and gilding need to be removed.

Edit: I have to correct myself. It's been so long since I've transmuted mods that I forgot you don't actually need transmutation cores to do it. But even without them, it still costs credits. So my point stands. Challenges that create an unnecessary resource sink for the player suck.

Edited by (PS4)sister-hawk
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3 minutes ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

I hate this one simply because it will require buying cores with Simaris standin

No you don't have to use Simaris's mods to transmute. Any four mods will work. You only need the special ones of you're looking for a specific polarity mod.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Hellmans_Fury said:

10-13ish minutes 50k standing

What do y'all think?

Assuming the Nightwave ranks stay at 10K per rank, and people can do 3x3 tricaps easily, you'll have people get to rank 30 in about 3hrs of playtime. At which point there won't be a need to continue completing challenges for the rest of the series. Not a great idea IMO.

 

 

35 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

No you don't have to use Simaris's mods to transmute. Any four mods will work. You only need the special ones of you're looking for a specific polarity mod.

Don't forget the 0 credit cost if you use Simaris cores!

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Assuming the Nightwave ranks stay at 10K per rank, and people can do 3x3 tricaps easily, you'll have people get to rank 30 in about 3hrs of playtime. At which point there won't be a need to continue completing challenges for the rest of the series. Not a great idea IMO.

 

No what I meant was having the hydrolyst challenge once maybe twice per night wave cycle. Maybe under 10 minutes 50k standing. So the max standing you'd get from those challenges per night wave cycle would be 10 assuming you and your squad are good enough to tricap under 10 minutes. There's really not many people who can do a tri cap under 15 minutes. My record is like 17. So the people who work towards GETTING GOOD at the game should be rewarded for that.

Edited by (PS4)Hellmans_Fury

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I've got mixed feelings about this.

I don't mind Acts I can't complete, as long as I have other ways to get rewards. Now that I hit 32 while missing a number of acts I could complete (eg. "with friends" usually), I'm much less concerned about that. I'd add keep the ones you have and add more. 

However, that works best if you can go back and do Acts from previous weeks.....so...

The problem I see with the ability to go back a week is that same issue. If you hit one that you can't complete, it sounds like you're stuck there. I'd prefer a reroll mechanic similar to Rivens for weeklies and elite weeklies. Maybe you can convert standing to reroll it, or farm a resource based on the season. For example you could find manacles or handcuffs on Saturn, that the fugitives dropped when leaving. These could either be dropped by the Grineer there, or found like syndicate medallions. This would be in different locations and perhaps different for each season. You could use 3-5 manacles to reroll a weekly and 5-10 to reroll an elite weekly. They'd draw from the pool of uncompleted Acts from the previous weeks.  

TL;DR: Don't eliminate Acts, add more.  Let us reroll Acts for a season specific medallion or resource that you can find in a season specific place.

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Can you please remove the Forma weekly challenge? It is very problematic for long time veterans of the game. Simply put, I already put Forma on every piece of equipment I want to max out. I am out of things I want to Forma. The challenge actually makes me waste 3 Forma for no purpose unless I specifically hold off on using Forma on new equipment until the challenge comes around again.

This results in 2 issues:

1) I am now not using any Forma until the challenge comes around. This ruins gameplay.

2) The 3 Forma necessary to complete the challenge undoes the Forma rewards gotten from Nightwave progression. Rather than being rewards, they just feel like compensation for subsidizing my losses.

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One huge thing that should change with challenges is the way 'Kill # of X with Y' works.  Warframe prior to Night Wave has done amazing work to avoid players competing to get the killing blow on an enemy and those kill tasks have heavily introduced it into the game. 
For most existing players this likely wont be an issue because they understand aspects of affinity gain is based around the squad in that it doesn't matter who kills everyone gains, it has come up prior, where players just didn't understand that this is not a factor in warframe.  However those tasks requiring a kill count are actually teaching players that their personal number of kills matter.  For me personally this seems like a bad lesson to foster for the game as a whole, especially after all the work put in to avoid that.

If this requires larger numbers on those tasks then make that the case, though I wouldn't recommend more than double the current numbers so that groups are mostly required to achieve the goal.  After all even exterminate missions rarely go above the typical 150 kills the tasks have now.

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On 2019-05-10 at 9:54 AM, [DE]Bear said:

Elite Weekly

  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

Worst challenge I've seen yet.

Until you can make the operators actually useful and fun, requiring their use is just terrible.

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1 hour ago, KnightKrawlur said:

Worst challenge I've seen yet.

Until you can make the operators actually useful and fun, requiring their use is just terrible.

That's the challenge 😉

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