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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Nightwave Changes for Series 2

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7 minutes ago, Ceejay said:

even less of a reason to play with people epic !!!!

That's a really heavy handed reason.

What would accomplish that better is bringing back raid style missions and/or improving queuing options.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Complete any '60 minute Survival' Act reduced to 30 minutes

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Increase the Sanctuary Onslaught Acts from 3 rounds to 8 rounds

What's fine with the (Elite) Sanctuary Onslaught challenge is that it's accumulative. This gives players the choice to do it in one go or they can do it later.

That's the biggest issue with the Survival and Defense challenges, since it demands us to do it in one sitting. That adds in the risks of disconnections, host migrations, or anything that could sabotage the run. Changing it into an accumulative amount will help alleviate those issues.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, diaversai said:

Because you're in a different plane of existence? And also incorporeal. 

Right..it's called "void mode" for a reason. 

Edited by (XB1)RDeschain82

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1 minute ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

That's a really heavy handed reason.

What would accomplish that better is bringing back raid style missions and/or improving queuing options.

my man you just became my new best friend and true epic gamer of the year

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Only 3 new weekly challenges?

I was expecting like twice the ammount of the ones we have now.

I've already grown bored of most of them due to how lame and repetitive they are...

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

 

  • ‘10 Bounties’ reduced to ‘5 different Bounties’ 

Would have really preferred it to be bounty stages rather than different bounties.

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Complete 3 different K-Drive races in Orb Vallis 

 

Can we please get more visibility of race locations? Like hop on Kdrive all current races revealed on map? Atm I have no idea where they are since they keep changing and they don't show up on the map unless you're near one.

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17 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

 You wanna do Lua Spy with the operator. That's disgusting. I'll take some of that. 

 

I do indeed.

Let's be honest, it's probably easier than with a normal frame.

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The use three forma and the guild one modular item challenges need to go, we havent forgot about them.

Also please dont introduce the mod transmuting challenge.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Elite Weekly

  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

I'm honestly a little apprehensive about this one. I feel like there'd be a lot of people complaining about this if they're not very skilled at playing the game in Operator mode or haven't really worked on unlocking everything for the Operator. It might give more incentive to actually work on unlocking things for the Operator, but it might also push people away if they don't have the time to actually work on grinding that out. If the idea of making this less of a grind is the intention, you're kind of forcing more of a grind into this as well for some players with a challenge like this.

I'm also not so sure about the K-Drive race challenge being a good idea. As someone else pointed out earlier, not everyone is familiar with where the races are at; this isn't exactly helped by the fact that there's also some people who legitimately don't care for using their K-Drives at all and/or refuse to use them, so they won't really want to bother with memorizing where the races are located. An alternative that would probably work out better is having players capture certain outposts in the Orb Vallis (i.e., clearing out The Pearl area and making it safe to grab bounties from first, followed by clearing out the Temple Fabrication area and making it safe to grab bounties from afterwards).

The Kuva siphon challenge seems like a nice addition, though I'm hoping that includes floods as well since they tend to be more rewarding. I'm sure some folks would still do the siphons regardless, but the floods basically operate the same as the bounties, so it would make sense to have them count towards that challenge as well.

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1 hour ago, diaversai said:

Transmute 12 mods is gross. That's another using resources without a good reason.

At the very least, mods and credits are so plentiful and easy to get that transmuting 12 mods honestly shouldn't be too difficult. 

I do agree though that Acts that require resource spending have to go, namely the Forma spending, Ayatan socketing, and the Modular Item ones. The mere existence of said Acts encourages a paradoxical situation of hoarding of resources for no real reason in order for players to be ready to accomplish said Acts, while at the same time making them waste said resources that players could've otherwise used for something else they might need more. It's especially egregious for low-mid level players that may not have the ability to get the resources they need in a timely manner. 

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I already own all mods, can we replace the transmuting challenge to allow for more options, such as dissolving 12 mods instead or rolling rivens?

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

This is the place to do so. Feedback is welcomed!

One thing I am concerned about is I don't see the use a certain amount of forma removed from that rotation, as I don't think challenges should just be "spend a resource" for points. I don't really think gilding items, spending forma, or starring sculptures should be there personally.

I would like to see goofy things like using certain faction weapons against them - since they resist their own faction gear usually - stuff like doing a mission in Tenno form, but do feel then it could benefit from a mission mode that doesn't allow the warframe to deploy and Void blast amps would be nice there so the affinity isn't half wasted. Running missions solo without abilities wouldn't challenge many players since that is a relatively common occurrence in Warframe; even a nightmare mode dedicated to it so that wouldn't work. Defection is always something folk would rather chew off their arm than do, but reward improvements and buffs to Kavor AI could aid that and make it a respectable Challenge mission. While I don't really care for the spend resources challenges, how about gather a certain amount of resources in a time period; be that Traces, kuva, endo, or forma blueprints?

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2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Wolf Beacons will also be available and placed into the normal rotation of Nora Night’s wares.

YES PLEASE! I'm surprised nobody else has commented on this yet, but this is a good addition.

Two questions:
With the spy mission as Operator, what if you take Umbra? Since he has the specter AI and follows you around does it autofail if he leaves the room?

Does transmuting rivens count towards the 12 mod transmute challenge?

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2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

!6) The Wolf 

The Wolf will remain a threat, and his parts acquirable. When Nightwave Episode 1 concludes, the Wolf will become a random spawn with a small chance of appearing, which will grow as you take on higher level missions. Wolf Beacons will also be available and placed into the normal rotation of Nora Night’s wares. Wolf Creds will expire after Series 1 - spend them while it's active!

We would like to take a moment to thank you all for your collective feedback in the last thread, and as always, we continue to look for ways to improve this new system as it grows and progresses. Let us know your thoughts and your concerns, and as always, please keep your comments constructive and civil.

Thanks!
 

Will the beacons remain for all future nightwaves?

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2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Complete 3 different K-Drive races in Orb Vallis 

 

 

Please keep this in mind.🐧

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • ‘10 Bounties’ reduced to ‘5 different Bounties’ 
  • Increase the Sanctuary Onslaught Acts from 3 rounds to 8 rounds

4) New Acts!

Daily

  • Find 5 Syndicate Medallions 
  • Transmute 12 Mods 
  • Deploy an Air Support Charge in a mission 
  • Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)

Weekly  

  • Complete 3 Kuva Siphon Missions 
  • Complete 3 different K-Drive races in Orb Vallis 

Elite Weekly

  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

to clarify things in advance, i reached prestige rank 10 so far..

i really dislike some stuff you posted

 

Completing bounties is just a bad design, why not make do x amount of bounty stages so we are not "forced" to do the shortest and easiest bounties to complete the task

Increasing the sanctuary Onslaught form 3 to 8 rounds isnt "Degrindification!" it is the opposite.

 

Now the new acts:

Daily: 5 syndicates is ok

transmuting mods is... meh i have been playing this game since 2013 and havent used transmutation, i absolutly dislike those gaming like mechanics (yeah i know, no money involved but still super random)

Deplay an Air support charge in a mission... well first make air support actually worth to use?

Pet your Kubrow... more useless busywork, maybe i am not that manga anime cosmetic fanatical guy, i care about fun gameplay, thats why i PLAY games

 

Weekly:

3 Kuva siphons is great

3 K-drive Races arent, K-drives are just boring and so is searching the races on the boring, empty but beautiful venus open world

 

Elite Weekly:

i think this task is ok, kinda challenging and new players might learn to play with their operators better

 

everything i havent mentioned are GOOD changes.

 

anyway even after the improvements i have to say, nightwave could be alot better

i dont know why but it feels like DE lost most of their inspiration and fervor (dunno if this is the right word) for the game.

Edited by RAZORLIGHT

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

4) New Acts!

Daily

  • Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)

Maybe one day we can get a challenge for typing in your password correctly on the first attempt.

Jokes aside, I am really concerned with the "less is more" approach. I feel that catch-up mechanics are awesome, but only alongside a system with more to do, not less. Most of the existing Nightwave challenges are normal missions, so in my eyes, the people who dislike Nightwave challenges in their current state don't really enjoy the base game of Warframe. It boiled down to running Exterminate/Capture/Sabotage/Spy/Survival/Plains of Eidolon/Orb Vallis/Derelict/Void/etc. missions and basically just finishing the mission. I really enjoyed season 1 because I still like running missions with my friends. However, now there is no reason for them to squad up with me unless our time zones already aligned (which they usually don't), and they are done way faster. It is actually removing stuff to do in the game.

I appreciate Digital Extremes is reading feedback, but listening does not necessarily require action, just acknowledgement. I just hope that the next time "content drought" is a topic, people realize they (the vocal portion on Reddit/Forums) asked for it.

2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

6) The Wolf 

The Wolf will remain a threat, and his parts acquirable. When Nightwave Episode 1 concludes, the Wolf will become a random spawn with a small chance of appearing, which will grow as you take on higher level missions.

Can all assassins spawn in more missions? Most higher end players rarely see The Wolf of Saturn Six because he will not spawn in the following:

  • Syndicate and Assassination Missions

  • Archwing, Free Roam and Arena special game mode missions

  • Also includes Quest and Mastery Test solo-exclusive missions

  • Sanctuary Onslaught and Elite Sanctuary Onslaught

  • Non-combat hub "missions" (Relays, Dojos, etc.)

  • Any mission that has already been "chosen" for the spawn of another Assassin (Grustrag Three or Zanuka Hunter) or is forced due to beacons

  • Sortie missions.

It would be nice to have these enemies (with a level cap) spawn in Sorties/Onslaught/Arbitrations/Free Roam/Syndicate/Assassination missions. It would also be nice if every 5-10 minutes had a chance of spawning another assassin. This would make Endurance missions more challenging as levels scale for these enemy types. They could be capped to avoid something like a level 250 Wolf spawn, and this would not only spice up normal gameplay, but bring reliable and interesting farming methods to the table. Needing spawn beacons because you don't enjoy Fissures which is the only interesting "Veteran" content that can spawn these enemies can be boring.

Edited by Voltage
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Is that just 'any 60 min in a Survival' or the '60 min Kuva Survival', too? Because if the latter:

The interesting thing about the 60 minutes Kuva wasn't the amount of time spent, but to make it through all of that. The first 30 minutes of Survival are hardly ever exciting, unless it's on Mot or in an Arbitration (depending on loadout, even those are debatable). And as I usually don't even bother with Kuva Survival, I completely agree with anyone who labels doing that for 30 min as simply busywork.

This whole thing was an opportunity to offer a whole lot of different content for a very diverse audience, and at the same time manage to focus a part of the playerbase on specific nodes/missions in turn. But for that to work, and in order to appeal to people who are on a broad spectrum in terms of progression and preferences, the individual missions would have to be made more optional, not less (example suggestion, there were others going in that direction, too).

 

So is the goal here for it to be yet another carrot-on-a-stick for time spent? Because for me, if there won't be enough engaging tasks in there, I'll have a look at the ranks and depending on that might simply pass on it from the get-go.

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I have Warframes that can annihilate thousands of enemies, endure hours of endless survivals, and even move me to other dimensions; I have colleagues who make me invisible or who can turn a level 120 gunner into a rag doll. It took me 6 years to get everything I have, to become an unstoppable beast of war, I invested thousands of hours in my equipment ....

And your idea, DE, of "challenges", is finding Ayatan stars, using the damn kid for an espionage, or caressing my cat?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

3) Changes to Existing Acts!

  • Ayatan Socket requirement for Acts lowered from 5 to 3

I don't think lowering the socket count is enough. This challenge, and the "Gild a modular weapon" / "Use X Forma" challenges, are ones that should be completely deleted. Their very existence discourages players from doing these tasks on their own time (i.e. obtaining/filling Ayatans for decorations/endo, crafting/upgrading modular weapons, and upgrading weapons/frames/pets), out of fear that one of these challenges would pop up and require them to spend all those resources+time again.

I don't think this is something that should ever happen in a game. If any of you guys at DE play Pokemon GO, you'll know that Niantic is already infamous for having a more-extreme version of this problem with their Community Day-exclusive pokemon moves. ("Oh look, I got a Ralts with 100% stats! Better do nothing with it for months on end, because evolving it right now might lock it out of a better moveset in the future, causing its good stats to go to waste.")

Edited by SortaRandom
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Posted (edited)

I'm having mixed feelings about these changes.

What I like:

  • Maybe the decrease in weekly acts is a good thing so there's room to do other stuff in game (even though about half the challenges you could complete while doing other stuff and even combine them anyway).
  • Reduction on sorties requirement. I never miss a sortie, but I can see how something can come up that prevents you from doing it any day of the week.
  • Reduction on the perfect conservation captures, if only because it takes too long.
  • Increase to sanctuary onslaught from 3 to 8 zones.
  • Catch-up sounds actually cool.


What I don't like:

  • Reducing the kuva survival to 30 minutes is not elite anymore and quite common, same as 20 waves defense (people do that all the time in Hydron).
  • How hard is it to ask someone in clan or recruiting to squad up for a mission? "We all lift together" indeed.


Overall what I keep seeing is people want more with as little effort as possible. When you're new to the game you don't have access to things like sorties and arbitration. If you are not able to do some "elite" challenges yet you should be required to work towards it, just like with any game. I will agree about the guilded weapon act cause it "forces" you to build something even if you already have every modular weapon in the game, but things like ayatan sculputres are easily obtained doing sortie and arbitration. Then again I'm puzzled by the new operator only act. It sounds fun for someone like me, but I'm sure people will start complaining about it being "too hard" or complaining they can't use operator yet cause they're not that far into the game, and it will get nixed anyway later on.

Thanks to Nightwave I was pushed to do stuff I didn't do before and get better at other things, and I loved it for it. It was even more rewarding knowing that if I could reach rank 30 fast enough I'd get more creds to buy what I want. On that note the one change I think was needed was to reward creds at every rank, even if it was just 5, that's enough to buy nitain extract.

Another thing I'd prefer seeing implemented would be two tiers, one with easy challenges for newcomers, and another one for more experienced players who enjoy the challenge.

One last thing, Wolf was a good idea and a different kind of boss, but the whole effort of taking him down was barely worth it cause the drop chances for anything worth something was ridiculously low. I know people who often fought for an hour or close to it only to get a mod. This is the exact opposite of the Exploiter fight where you and your team can coordinate to take the enemy down as quick as possible and get a good amount of loot as a reward.

Edited by Yahzee
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1 hour ago, Kylo. said:

This is good, but we need more acts like "complete lua spy without triggering alarms".

No thx, we had enough obnoxius challenges, we dont want the worsen it, dont we?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

'With Clanmates / Friends' Act requirements have been removed completely

the office thank you GIF
 

Quote

Increase the Sanctuary Onslaught Acts from 3 rounds to 8 rounds

Welp, RIP solo play then...
 

Quote

Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

Room as in tile, or room as in the platform they spawn on? Cause Pluto's starting room (the wide open one in the field) is pretty big, and the platform you spawn on leaves the frame wide open.

2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Find 5 Syndicate Medallions 

Didn't we already have something related to syndicates? Something ridiculous that no one did? I see no changes on that one, so why this exists kinda baffles me.

2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Transmute 12 Mods 

...That's a challenge?!

Quote

Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)

Sentinel Master Race! Will we be able to pet our sentinels in the future, or is this a speciesist challenge?

Quote

Wolf Creds will expire after Series 1 - spend them while it's active!

This is one of the biggest points of contention about Nightwave. Drop this BS already!

1 hour ago, Kylo. said:

This is good, but we need more acts like "complete lua spy without triggering alarms".

Seeing the response to spy missions around here, that would be an actual challenge. Yes please!

 

Edited by Gabbynaru

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hace 2 horas, [DE]Bear dijo:
  • Transmute 12 Mods 
  •  

@[DE]Bear could you please consider make the multiple transmutations in one process instead of infinite clicks

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