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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Nightwave Changes for Series 2

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5 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Dreamers!

A while back we posted requesting feedback on Nightwave Episode 1: The Wolf of Saturn 6. Now we are putting that feedback into action for Series 2 and we wanted to share our progress! You can find that original thread here:

To recap, we already had feedback on the Atayan Statues and RNG, challenges with friends, and how Survival challenges were too long for one sitting. On that note, we have been compiling further feedback from that thread and through other sources, and have come up with some new changes to be implemented in Series 2 of Nightwave.

We are implementing the following:

1) Playing Catch-Up: Stored, Missed Acts!

The biggest change we wanted to announce was the addition of a system which allows you to play missed Acts after you have completed the current Acts for your given week. This will only apply to Weekly and Elite Weekly Acts. 

When both Weekly and Elite Weekly Acts are completed for a week, a ‘missed’ Act from a previous week will be available to play and complete. Once you have completed all ‘missed’ Acts, they will no longer appear, only to be refreshed in the next week’s rotation.

2) Degrindification!

The overarching plan here is to reduce the amount of Acts offered in any given week, but maintain the Standing rewards they provide. 

Series 1 has 7 Weekly Acts and 3 Elite Weekly Acts. Series 2 will be reduced to 5 Weekly Acts and 2 Elite Weekly Acts. While there will be less Acts overall, the rewards for these Acts will increase, so you will earn the same amount of Standing as you would in the previous Episode upon completion. We are also looking at front-loading more Cred with the next Series to increase the initial amount of Creds received for participating!

3) Changes to Existing Acts!

  • 'With Clanmates / Friends' Act requirements have been removed completely
  • Change 'Complete 5 Sorties' Elite Weekly to 'Complete 3 Sorties' 
  • Complete any '60 minute Survival' Act reduced to 30 minutes
  • Ayatan Socket requirement for Acts lowered from 5 to 3
  • ‘10 perfect conservations’ reduced to ‘6 different perfect conservations’ 
  • ‘10 Bounties’ reduced to ‘5 different Bounties’ 
  • Increase the Sanctuary Onslaught Acts from 3 rounds to 8 rounds

4) New Acts!

Daily

  • Find 5 Syndicate Medallions 
  • Transmute 12 Mods 
  • Deploy an Air Support Charge in a mission 
  • Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)

Weekly  

  • Complete 3 Kuva Siphon Missions 
  • Complete 3 different K-Drive races in Orb Vallis 

Elite Weekly

  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

5) The Emissary

Of course, a new Series means a new Nightwave Story. We don't want to spoil too much, but we will be also changing up the way the story interacts with the world. Episode 2 will have more interactivity with the players in new ways, expanding out and growing as the Episode progresses. We are excited for you to see what you make of this new story!

6) The Wolf 

The Wolf will remain a threat, and his parts acquirable. When Nightwave Episode 1 concludes, the Wolf will become a random spawn with a small chance of appearing, which will grow as you take on higher level missions. Wolf Beacons will also be available and placed into the normal rotation of Nora Night’s wares. Wolf Creds will expire after Series 1 - spend them while it's active!

We would like to take a moment to thank you all for your collective feedback in the last thread, and as always, we continue to look for ways to improve this new system as it grows and progresses. Let us know your thoughts and your concerns, and as always, please keep your comments constructive and civil.

Thanks!
 

Bring back alerts with nightwave the nightwave system sucks and your changes didn't fix jack

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Ideas for new missions:
>Create X Endo from mod dissolving.
>Bank a stack of 10 points in The Index
>Gib 150 enemies (An enemy must be split into 2 or more parts)
>Complete 1/3 mission(s) with a Kubrow/Kavat/Moa (It is important to take your pets out for walkies)
>Stealth melee kill X enemies
>Kill an enemy with a Bullet Jump
>Gather X Void Traces
>Kill X enemies by shooting through another enemy using Punch Through.
>Have an enemy kill another enemy using friendly fire through Radiation.
>Scan X enemies with a codex/synthesis scanner
>Use a party Ammo/Health/Energy/Shield restore in a mission (Serve your party a pizza, icon could be a mustached Excalibur with a chef hat)
>Upgrade the rank of an Arcane
>Complete a/multiple mission(s) with only a Primary/Secondary/Melee equipped
>Complete a mission without killing a single enemy
>Complete a trick worth 150 points or more on your K-drive

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I don't think any challenges should use consumables— as those encourage players to stop using said consumables, ever, in case a challenge comes around requiring it. Ayatan slotting, and formaing both use uncommon consumables that we don't come across every single day. I found myself no longer using my forma or statues in Nightwave 1 due to these, though I would very much like to use them-- just the possibility of needing them for something else kept from them.

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2 minutes ago, Timepool said:

I don't think any challenges should use consumables— as those encourage players to stop using said consumables, ever, in case a challenge comes around requiring it. Ayatan slotting, and formaing both use uncommon consumables that we don't come across every single day. I found myself no longer using my forma or statues in Nightwave 1 due to these, though I would very much like to use them-- just the possibility of needing them for something else kept from them.

Difference is unlike being locked to 1 forma a day these consumables come in multiples and take 1 minute to build....

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6 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)

Best game of the decade right here 😀

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Outside of the operator spy all of the other challenges seem rather boring still. Maybe it's just the old player playing new things problem but a lot of those I've already done a thousand times and don't really want to do them again. 

I guess it's difficult to make new acts that are actually fun, but I really hope that things continue to get better. 

Again the operator spy actually seems genuinely interesting, so I'm not just hating on this date on it.

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6 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

The Wolf will remain a threat, and his parts acquirable. When Nightwave Episode 1 concludes, the Wolf will become a random spawn with a small chance of appearing, which will grow as you take on higher level missions. Wolf Beacons will also be available and placed into the normal rotation of Nora Night’s wares.

I also don't think the permanent threat of Wolf messing up void relic and farming missions is a positive change. A permanent place in the Nora Night store seems sufficient. Plus, it feels much more satisfying to beat him at the end of the event if he stops popping up.

He's too tanky/damaging to enjoy on missions we're trying to run quickly and efficiently on repeat, he tends to repeat along with them. Especially at higher levels. 

Post event, I think giving players agency over his appearance is better. 

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6 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Wolf Creds will expire after Series 1 - spend them while it's active!

And when Series 1 will end? Like... Can you tell exact date and time?

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Posted (edited)

There's no reason Nightwave should outright replace Alerts.   They can work along side alerts without issue. 

 

The change to Nightwave feels like it's deliberately designed to be more of a frustration and to make Alert items / drops a higher scarcity to encourage cash shop purchases, especially for newer players who don't get to benefit from having already done Alerts in the past for all or most the objects, at the very least the important ones.

 

At a bare minimum if they refuse to return Alerts, nightwave creds need to be around doubled.  Preferably tripled.  And not just from rank rewards, but from creds gained from other sources as well. For example, capturing fugitives giving creds.

Edited by Kingsmount
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6 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)

 

This challenge should also include MOAs!

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7 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

'With Clanmates / Friends' Act requirements have been removed completely

THANK YOU!  If this was the only thing that changed for Nightwave Episode 2, it would have made ep2 a resounding success.  Nothing to add.  Nothing to critque.  Just a huge f**king thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  🙂

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1 hour ago, AlbinHodge said:

Ideas for new missions:
>Create X Endo from mod dissolving.
>Bank a stack of 10 points in The Index
>Gib 150 enemies (An enemy must be split into 2 or more parts)
>Complete 1/3 mission(s) with a Kubrow/Kavat/Moa (It is important to take your pets out for walkies)
>Stealth melee kill X enemies
>Kill an enemy with a Bullet Jump
>Gather X Void Traces
>Kill X enemies by shooting through another enemy using Punch Through.
>Have an enemy kill another enemy using friendly fire through Radiation.
>Scan X enemies with a codex/synthesis scanner
>Use a party Ammo/Health/Energy/Shield restore in a mission (Serve your party a pizza, icon could be a mustached Excalibur with a chef hat)
>Upgrade the rank of an Arcane
>Complete a/multiple mission(s) with only a Primary/Secondary/Melee equipped
>Complete a mission without killing a single enemy
>Complete a trick worth 150 points or more on your K-drive

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no, yes, yes, no, already in, yes, no, maybe, maybe, maybe.

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Quote

We are implementing the following:

1) Playing Catch-Up: Stored, Missed Acts!

The biggest change we wanted to announce was the addition of a system which allows you to play missed Acts after you have completed the current Acts for your given week. This will only apply to Weekly and Elite Weekly Acts. 

When both Weekly and Elite Weekly Acts are completed for a week, a ‘missed’ Act from a previous week will be available to play and complete. Once you have completed all ‘missed’ Acts, they will no longer appear, only to be refreshed in the next week’s rotation.

Please, I am begging you separate the weeklies from the elite weeklies. I understand that it might be a bit more effort but they really are targeted for very different audiences. Newer players who straight up don't have access to stuff from the Elite Weeklies such as Operator mode cannot possibly do them for the catch-up. The hardest hitting one is Profit Taker which can take upwards of a month of daily grinding to unlock at low MR. 

 

-----

 

Quote

2) Degrindification!

The overarching plan here is to reduce the amount of Acts offered in any given week, but maintain the Standing rewards they provide. 

Series 1 has 7 Weekly Acts and 3 Elite Weekly Acts. Series 2 will be reduced to 5 Weekly Acts and 2 Elite Weekly Acts. While there will be less Acts overall, the rewards for these Acts will increase, so you will earn the same amount of Standing as you would in the previous Episode upon completion. We are also looking at front-loading more Cred with the next Series to increase the initial amount of Creds received for participating!

Great. The front-loading of credits will help a lot for newer players who need more of the credit stuff like Auras. Being able to get the tools they need at a reasonable pace even if they can't get the Elites or harder weeklies will be a huge benefit for them.

 

-----

 

Quote

3) Changes to Existing Acts!

  • 'With Clanmates / Friends' Act requirements have been removed completely

Praise the Void. Thank you. This was a PITA constantly friending and unfriending people. I don't mind playing with people but my friends list should be for my friends.

Quote
  • Change 'Complete 5 Sorties' Elite Weekly to 'Complete 3 Sorties' 

Thank you. Still going to be awkward for people but it's an Elite so that comes with the territory, all good.

Quote
  • Complete any '60 minute Survival' Act reduced to 30 minutes

Thanks. Hope this applies to the Kuva Survival one too.

Quote
  • Ayatan Socket requirement for Acts lowered from 5 to 3

Isn't this already the current requirement? That's not a change.

Quote
  • ‘10 perfect conservations’ reduced to ‘6 different perfect conservations’ 

If you're going to do this can you please either remove the "different" or make it an Elite? For your more casual players there's a pretty big investment to get up and going with 6 different echo lures, and if you only have 2-3 echo lures it can result in well over 10 runs to get the different variants. Overall this change makes the Act actively much worse as opposed to better.

Quote
  • ‘10 Bounties’ reduced to ‘5 different Bounties’ 

That's cool. Would have preferred "10 bounty stages" so it doesn't skew towards the faster missions, but w/e. Also as mentioned by others, I really hope that's just different bounties and not 5 different bounty tiers because if it is then *oof* that'll be a huge pain for newer players.

Quote
  • Increase the Sanctuary Onslaught Acts from 3 rounds to 8 rounds

I really hope that's ESO too. The 3 wave ESO one is a joke for an Elite. But honestly good, 3 waves was really quick compared to the other weeklies.

 

Some changes I still want to see:

  • Seriously please ditch rare resource sink ones like Forma, Gilding, and Ayatans. I get the idea behind them but they're bad for both new and old players. New players have other places to spend those resources and for older players it's wasteful busywork. It also encourages resource hoarding by punishing players for using those precious resources outside Nightwave.
  • The 10 Syndicate and 9 Invasions both seem really high still compared to the other weeklies. Shouldn't those be toned back to match the others?
  • Please either decouple weeklies/elites, get rid of the profit taker Act, open Profit Taker to lower standings, or at the very *very* least allow ferrying to Profit Taker because if that pops up it's going to screw so many people over and defeat the whole point of catch-up.
  • Nothing mentioned about price changes in the store. The only one that I feel is really needed is *PLEASE* for the love of all that is holy drop the prices on the MR0 weapons. A full stack of creds is ridiculous for weapons that should be in the hands of brand spanking new just starting players.

 

-----

 

Quote

4) New Acts!

Daily

  • Find 5 Syndicate Medallions

A single mission one. Cool. Way better than doing 10 Syndicate missions.

Quote
  • Transmute 12 Mods

Not my taste, but I guess it's not bad after you've been playing for a week or two. Still yuck. Really hope that's "Transmute 4 mods 3 times (12 mods)" and not "Transmute 4 mods 12 times (48 mods)". As long as you can use vitality it should be fine for newer players too. Cool.

Quote
  • Deploy an Air Support Charge in a mission 

Yuck...? So far the dailies have been easy stuff that even pretty new players can get into no problem. This is something that requires dojo research and considerable resources to get... Wouldn't this be a better fit for a weekly? "Deploy Air Support assistance 5 times." or something? At least it's not MR locked AFAIK.

Quote
  • Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)

Cool cool. Good incentive for brand new players to get Howl done ASAP.

Quote

Weekly  

  • Complete 3 Kuva Siphon Missions 
  • Complete 3 different K-Drive races in Orb Vallis

these both seem fine. Could really use better indicators for active k-drive races though, preferably showing them on the map all the time instead of just when you're really close.

Quote

Elite Weekly

  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

Cool cool sounds like a blast! Locks out newer players but it's an Elite so that's understandable. Still want to see Elites decoupled from standards though since as mentioned they're really for different crowds.

 

These all seemed fine. Cool. 

 

-----

 

Quote

5) The Emissary

Of course, a new Series means a new Nightwave Story. We don't want to spoil too much, but we will be also changing up the way the story interacts with the world. Episode 2 will have more interactivity with the players in new ways, expanding out and growing as the Episode progresses. We are excited for you to see what you make of this new story!

That sounds really interesting and also really painful. Not sure if I should be excited or terrified of how it'll turn out.

 

-----

 

Quote

6) The Wolf 

The Wolf will remain a threat, and his parts acquirable. When Nightwave Episode 1 concludes, the Wolf will become a random spawn with a small chance of appearing, which will grow as you take on higher level missions. Wolf Beacons will also be available and placed into the normal rotation of Nora Night’s wares. Wolf Creds will expire after Series 1 - spend them while it's active!

*PLEASE* if you are going to do this make some serious revisions to him. I'm begging you. His ridiculous armour makes him unreasonable to kill with anything other than radiation weapon and i'm not going to be dragging one around with me for the tiny chance he might spawn. Him dropping into high level missions where people aren't loaded out with a build specifically tailoured to him can wreck matches.

 

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6 hours ago, diaversai said:

Transmute 12 mods is gross. That's another using resources without a good reason.

you get enough copies of redirection/vitality to need to worry about that. within 1 hour of purely running the wolf tactical alert (of which i am in LOVE WITH THIS) I've picked up more mods from random loot chests I've whacked with my dehtat than I've had drops from the wolf.

 

7 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Elite Weekly

  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

this can be amazing. but please put a minimum level on it so people don't do the easy thing of just running earth spy, like making it the higher third of the map (Neptune upwards) would be awesome.

And with the elite weekly "defeat profit taker" please change it to exploiter. profit taker is really not a fun fight in its current state. As most of the runs i do (literally for just an articula) are failed due to no muckers spawning to recharge our arch-guns while the timer is up. our arch-guns being glitched so we cant use anything. Or we just get swarmed by unnecessary amounts of corpus. Making it exploiter would also give the thermia event another reason to be farmed out while its active. as after getting hildryn there is not really a reason for doing that event (unless you really want one of the 2 ephemeras dropped by exploiter and your luck just sucks) Making the profit taker elite weekly exploiter would save a lot of unnecessary problems and glitches. Sorry but the profit fight could be so much more entertaining than it is.

 

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Thanks for the changes, sounds good overall!

7 часов назад, [DE]Bear сказал:

When both Weekly and Elite Weekly Acts are completed for a week, a ‘missed’ Act from a previous week will be available to play and complete.

So I'll be able to only catch up on one previous week, and if I have missed some of the older acts, I still won't be able to access them anymore? Honeslty, being able to go only one week back still leaves me somewhat anxious, could this grace period be extended to two-three weeks instead, please?

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7 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Wolf Creds will expire after Series 1 - spend them while it's active!

I know these so called "workshops" are not really for gathering player feedback (and read them), but only for early announcement of changes.  But still, this is a massive disappointment right here.  DE should have realized that nobody in their right mind likes to earn tokens that have an expiry attached to them in a F2P game, such as Warframe.  The very concept of them expiring is an insult to the business model and players' time spending on accruing these tokens.

Instead, these tokens should be automatically convert to the tokens/creds of the next series.  Let's face it, there's no "first timer discount" or "more expensive when you buy more" type of stuff in the nightwave shop that remotely warrants the expiration.

In conclusion: the direction of Nightwave is squarely set to heading to disgrace and forced relevancy. Where do you get your feed back, DE?  Do you really think people want to play the game and earn the chance of wasting their time and rewards?  Is this kind of feed back prompt you to implement Solaris United/Vox Solaris ridiculous time gating the Profit Taker fight from new/returning players?

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Posted (edited)

so no changes to the abysmal prestige rewards huh? cant wait to get those 15 creds 

Edited by Heretic-Prime

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Could we get "complete a tridolon (1x3) in less then 10min" as elite weekly challenge?

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The catch-up mechanic CAN NOT depend upon completing a whole weekly set before it becomes available.

If so this completely removes this new mechanic for newer players (who need it the most to not fall hopelessly behind) because they might not be able to do every weekly. (or even for older ones that do not yet have access to stuff because of artificial gates like standing requirements)

No, no, no!

Do something like "complete 50% of the weekly set" instead.

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I'd like to see an instant weeklies complete voucher. It would only be granted from an super duper extra tough challenge given by a different npc that Nora owes a favor to. And you could save it, but you could only get up to two an episode. This allows for super veterans to have a super challenge.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Hey Dreamers!

A while back we posted requesting feedback on Nightwave Episode 1: The Wolf of Saturn 6. Now we are putting that feedback into action for Series 2 and we wanted to share our progress! You can find that original thread here:

To recap, we already had feedback on the Atayan Statues and RNG, challenges with friends, and how Survival challenges were too long for one sitting. On that note, we have been compiling further feedback from that thread and through other sources, and have come up with some new changes to be implemented in Series 2 of Nightwave.

We are implementing the following:

1) Playing Catch-Up: Stored, Missed Acts!

The biggest change we wanted to announce was the addition of a system which allows you to play missed Acts after you have completed the current Acts for your given week. This will only apply to Weekly and Elite Weekly Acts. 

When both Weekly and Elite Weekly Acts are completed for a week, a ‘missed’ Act from a previous week will be available to play and complete. Once you have completed all ‘missed’ Acts, they will no longer appear, only to be refreshed in the next week’s rotation.

2) Degrindification!

The overarching plan here is to reduce the amount of Acts offered in any given week, but maintain the Standing rewards they provide. 

Series 1 has 7 Weekly Acts and 3 Elite Weekly Acts. Series 2 will be reduced to 5 Weekly Acts and 2 Elite Weekly Acts. While there will be less Acts overall, the rewards for these Acts will increase, so you will earn the same amount of Standing as you would in the previous Episode upon completion. We are also looking at front-loading more Cred with the next Series to increase the initial amount of Creds received for participating!

3) Changes to Existing Acts!

  • 'With Clanmates / Friends' Act requirements have been removed completely
  • Change 'Complete 5 Sorties' Elite Weekly to 'Complete 3 Sorties' 
  • Complete any '60 minute Survival' Act reduced to 30 minutes
  • Ayatan Socket requirement for Acts lowered from 5 to 3
  • ‘10 perfect conservations’ reduced to ‘6 different perfect conservations’ 
  • ‘10 Bounties’ reduced to ‘5 different Bounties’ 
  • Increase the Sanctuary Onslaught Acts from 3 rounds to 8 rounds

4) New Acts!

Daily

  • Find 5 Syndicate Medallions 
  • Transmute 12 Mods 
  • Deploy an Air Support Charge in a mission 
  • Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)

Weekly  

  • Complete 3 Kuva Siphon Missions 
  • Complete 3 different K-Drive races in Orb Vallis 

Elite Weekly

  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

5) The Emissary

Of course, a new Series means a new Nightwave Story. We don't want to spoil too much, but we will be also changing up the way the story interacts with the world. Episode 2 will have more interactivity with the players in new ways, expanding out and growing as the Episode progresses. We are excited for you to see what you make of this new story!

6) The Wolf 

The Wolf will remain a threat, and his parts acquirable. When Nightwave Episode 1 concludes, the Wolf will become a random spawn with a small chance of appearing, which will grow as you take on higher level missions. Wolf Beacons will also be available and placed into the normal rotation of Nora Night’s wares. Wolf Creds will expire after Series 1 - spend them while it's active!

We would like to take a moment to thank you all for your collective feedback in the last thread, and as always, we continue to look for ways to improve this new system as it grows and progresses. Let us know your thoughts and your concerns, and as always, please keep your comments constructive and civil.

Thanks!
 

 

1) Playing Catch-Up: Stored, Missed Acts!

set it up this way so players won't be forced to finish the current week's weekly and the elite acts in order to see the weekly and elite acts they have previously missed.

not all players can, nor want to do all challenges presented in there per week, for their own reasons, and this limits them to not being able to ever see previously missed ones.

 

2) Degrindification!

i kind of think players needed to have more choices out of those challenges presented in there.

if anything, you should have more and let the players decide which ones to be doing.

you could, for instance, have 14 weekly acts and 6 elite weekly acts available per week, and let players select only half of each category (weekly and elite acts) to complete.

have it like a selection or something so the rest to disappear.

 

3) Changes to Existing Acts!

i am betting a huge portion of the playerbase will be happy with these changes under this category.

i really hope though you will not replace the 'with clanmates / friends' acts to be 'with an alliance member', coz it is a similar redundant thing.

do not restrict the challenges this way.

 

4) New Acts!

5) The Emissary

6) The Wolf 

let's see those live first and we will give the feedback then.

 

thank you very much!

 

Edited by No1Eye
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I posted a request for operator only missions just yesterday and here it comes. It's like when you ask Santa for a bike and you get a bike. 

Now if we can just get operator melee or at least let us use the martial arts emotes with our operators that would be swell. 

Thanks!

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8 hours ago, chaotea said:

This one sucks. I keep a baby kubro for decoration, i dont wanna swap him out for a full grown one just to pet it 😄

Sorry if someone already told you, I didn't see it.
But you can pet your puppy Kubrow. They don't have to be full grown.


If it doesn't give you the option in the incubator itself, you just press melee when close to your doggo.

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Posted (edited)

To be honest, this is very disappointing. I think Nightwave needs huge rework, but this is very small band-aid fix that doesn't even fix something.
More specifically speaking...
1. Catch-up mechanic should not be like "complete bonus". It should be more friendly to new players and the people have less time to play.
2. Degrindification is hmmm. We need more options. Like choosing preferable 5 tasks from 20 tasks. I want to avoid craziness like "Socket Ayatans".
3. Changes to existing acts seems like very small change, except removing "Do you guys have friends" acts. I don't understand why there is still Ayatan Socket acts. Why?
4. New acts seems just like previous season's acts with just different contents. Unnecessarily hard or stupidly easy or waste your resource for no reason. No lessons learned.
5. Giving new story is good. But I think we still don't know much about the Wolf guy. Just showing some videos was not good way to introduce the character.
6. No, Wolf, please go away. And WHY don't you put exact date to finish the event? The worst part of all the Nightwave is ambiguity. We were running within the deep mist through whole season. "When will it end?" "Can I get to rank30 still?" No one knows the answer. It was like a marathon without goal line. It was horror. And funny thing is we are still in the mist.

Edited by (NSW)ForTheGhostsWithin
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