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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Nightwave Changes for Series 2

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Posted (edited)

Erm, DE not giving us the alert system back?

So many ppl asked for it to come back but were ignored... ūüėě

Edited by Im_a_fat_boy2
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Having the Profit Taker (or similar 'raid' missions) as a weekly Nightwave objective is pretty annoying because, even at MR18, I don't have access to it yet. Why? The grind to leveling the open-world syndicates is just so tedious that I honestly can't be bothered to do it. Go to Fortuna/Cetus, run the hardest bounty for max standing points, stand around defending objectives or flying from point-to-point, now do the same objectives over and over until you hit the daily standing cap. At 19k daily standing cap, I'd have to do about 6 bounties per-day for like 2 weeks just to get through the last few tiers of Fortuna/Cetus ranks. I cannot be Ruk'ing arsed to do it.

If you really want to keep 'raid' missions in Nightwave, then at least make the system semi-dynamic per-player. Don't offer objectives that are literally impossible for a player to complete because they don't meet the syndicate rank or standing or mastery requirements.

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10 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

PetÔĽŅ your Kubrow or Kavat (ÔĽŅVery Important)ÔĽŅ

Nice.

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Posted (edited)

There's definitely some changes for the better in here. I'm worried about some of the details though. Getting standing for Fortuna / Vox Solaris / whichever profit-taker is locked behind is EXTREMELY low priority for me and would take time even if I grinded it out. Does that mean if I get a profit-taker weekly I'm totally SOL for catch-up standing? I've got two friends who haven't done War Within yet, are they just screwed on catch-up standing during "operator only spy" or Stories weeks?

I'd rather be disappointed by boring weekly tasks than see my friends be locked out of basic features of Nightwave season 2. Having more season creds available early on as mentioned might help make this less of an issue for people who need nitain / aura mods ect, but "more" compared to season one isn't saying much. We'll have to wait and see how this one goes. 

Also why is wolf still invading? Why? He's not a challenge. He's not a threat. He's not an event. He's a pause button. He's a big noisy pause button. Should I be bringing something built to deal with him into every mission I ever play from now on? One of my biggest joys in Warframe used to be jumping into low level missions with my newbie friends and goofing off with weak meme loadouts. Wolf has killed that joy for me and knowing he's sticking around feels absolutely awful. Please reconsider this, at least give him a territory or something that we know to avoid of we don't want to have our party crashed. 

Overall season 2 is looking way more manageable than season one, and the adjustments to community feedback are a huge step in the right direction, I just hope it amounts to as much in practice. 

EDIT: Toned things down a little. Just frustrated at how season one interfered with my fun and keeping my fingers crossed season 2 is enough of a change. 

Edited by CastIronNest
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Does catch up only go one week back, or if you catch up on all last week acts, acts from two weeks ago unlock?

 

Change 5 bounties to bounty steps, please. Even 20 bounty steps is better than 5 bounties. 

 

Please remove "Gild an item" act. It's counter productive to vets who have guilded everything already. We need to craft throwaway things for this now. 

 

Please, more variety in acts and more conditional challenges. Some of the acts already copy Riven challenges, it's an untapped pool. "40 stealth melee kills", "Complete 5 missions with only melee equipped", "Kill 50 enemies from more than 150 meters away", "Do 40 headshot kills only with a pistol", etc.

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

2) Degrindification!

The overarching plan here is to reduce the amount of Acts offered in any given week, but maintain the Standing rewards they provide. 

Series 1 has 7 Weekly Acts and 3 Elite Weekly Acts. Series 2 will be reduced to 5 Weekly Acts and 2 Elite Weekly Acts. While there will be less Acts overall, the rewards for these Acts will increase, so you will earn the same amount of Standing as you would in the previous Episode upon completion. We are also looking at front-loading more Cred with the next Series to increase the initial amount of Creds received for participating!

3) Changes to Existing Acts!

  • 'With Clanmates / Friends' Act requirements¬†have been removed completely
  • Change 'Complete 5 Sorties' Elite Weekly to 'Complete 3 Sorties'¬†
  • Complete any '60 minute Survival' Act reduced to 30 minutes
  • Ayatan Socket requirement for Acts lowered from 5 to 3
  • ‚Äė10 perfect conservations‚Äô reduced to ‚Äė6 different perfect conservations‚Äô¬†
  • ‚Äė10 Bounties‚Äô reduced to ‚Äė5 different Bounties‚Äô¬†
  • Increase the Sanctuary Onslaught Acts from 3 rounds to 8 rounds

4) New Acts!

Daily

  • Find 5 Syndicate Medallions¬†
  • Transmute 12 Mods¬†
  • Deploy an Air Support Charge in a mission¬†
  • Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)

Weekly  

  • Complete 3 Kuva Siphon Missions¬†
  • Complete 3 different K-Drive races in Orb Vallis¬†

Elite Weekly

  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room. ÔĽŅ

 

Ok so, degrindification ... means, increasing the amount of time you have to spend in onslaught - possibly the most boring type of mission in the entire game. Why couldnt it of just been made 4 rounds? Nice and even and not tediously long. The place doesn't even have drops (resources).

Can you please remove the gild missions or make them worth less points so it doesn't matter so much if you skip it - its pretty lame having to build something you've already built, re-rank it, and gild it... just to throw it away again. (We arent all new) The same goes for building moa's or anything like that. Please don't go down this path.

Forgot to add - hope petting includes pups and kittens, because Im not growing my ship pup up ūüėĄ

The cred cost of potatos is too high (for noobs - think of the starving noobs)

 

Edited by Zanchak
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Posted (edited)

K drive race challenge, should be on the mini map by default. 

Nothing about gild challenges. 

Edited by (PS4)nerdlegend
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Hi everyone, it's feedback time! Seems like few steps were taken in the right direction, but more remains to be done.

1) Playing Catch-Up: Stored, Missed Acts!

Great! However, please separate weekly normal and elites, it may be frustrating to be stuck on hard elite and not being able to catch up.

2) Degrindification!

Good direction, bad implementation. I am worried that since missing a task will cost more points, player satisfaction will decrease due to disliked tasks being worth more.

3) Changes to Existing Acts!

  • 'With Clanmates / Friends' Act requirements¬†have been removed completely - Great!
  • Change 'Complete 5 Sorties' Elite Weekly to 'Complete 3 Sorties' - Great!
  • Complete any '60 minute Survival' Act reduced to 30 minutes - not really necessary
  • Ayatan Socket requirement for Acts lowered from 5 to 3 - just... just get rid of this please, or swap for finding Ayatan stars
  • ‚Äė10 perfect conservations‚Äô reduced to ‚Äė6 different perfect conservations‚Äô - not necessary
  • ‚Äė10 Bounties‚Äô reduced to ‚Äė5 different Bounties‚Äô - OK, that was a lot, I appreciate it
  • Increase the Sanctuary Onslaught Acts from 3 rounds to 8 rounds - OK, as long as it is still cumulative
  • please get rid of gilding and 3 forma (or decrease to 1 - three are waste of resources)

4) New Acts!

Daily - fine, just hope transmutation one means use mods for transmutation. Or swap it for "recycle X mods".

Weekly - I guess I'll finally try a race then.

Elite - fine, but it's more of a one-time challenge, and it's VERY easy if there is no level/map restriction. Even an ungilded amp can easily slaughter everything on a lv 30 map, making stealth pointless.

5) The Emissary

Looking forward to the Season 2!

6) The Wolf 

Good to hear thet he'll still hang around, but I hope he'll spawn in the new nerfed version and without the Molotov Brothers, so we can just obliterate him nad move on without much distraction from the mission. He's not in the spotlight anymore, right?

(Some of the) Issues remaining:

- Rigid scoring system. Petting a kitty is worth as much as finding 5 medallions. 10 (or now 5) bounties is worth the same as 3 capture missions. Better adjustment of prices per task (and more tasks per week) would be appreciated.

- Please give us clear start and end time of the Season 2 to spare people stress and hours of  "can I skip those" calculations.

- Repetition (between weeks). I find it hard to believe that these are the only challenges you came up with during last 2+ months, especially after having over a hundred pages of feedback (counting only the official thread). You can, for example, throw in some Riven challenges.

- Prestige system. Will it be remotely worth investing time in? You mention more creds in the initial rewards, what about keeping your players who stopped playnig the minute they got to rank 30? Kuva, void traces, little boosters every 10 ranks, please give us some incentive.

- A little more lore, not just "here is a baddie, kill 'im" approach like this time. I hope we learn anything about Nora, because right now us following her feels very random.

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8 hours ago, Im_a_fat_boy2 said:

Erm, DE not giving us the alert system back?

So many ppl asked for it to come back but were ignored... ūüėě

Alert system still exists gift of the lotus. I don't think old system rng system coming back any time soon. 

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7 hours ago, Ailith said:

Having the Profit Taker (or similar 'raid' missions) as a weekly Nightwave objective is pretty annoying because, even at MR18, I don't have access to it yet. Why? The grind to leveling the open-world syndicates is just so tedious that I honestly can't be bothered to do it. Go to Fortuna/Cetus, run the hardest bounty for max standing points, stand around defending objectives or flying from point-to-point, now do the same objectives over and over until you hit the daily standing cap. At 19k daily standing cap, I'd have to do about 6 bounties per-day for like 2 weeks just to get through the last few tiers of Fortuna/Cetus ranks. I cannot be Ruk'ing arsed to do it.

If you really want to keep 'raid' missions in Nightwave, then at least make the system semi-dynamic per-player. Don't offer objectives that are literally impossible for a player to complete because they don't meet the syndicate rank or standing or mastery requirements.

Simple solution doing something similar to the preview system used for the E orb fight. Letting players complete it without any requirements. 

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I didn't notice anyone else saying this, but couldn't we get nightwave credit in daily missions along with standing? To be at least equal to the rate at which we used to be able to get nitain, which is like, 6 per day, so 15 cred per day? Some economics might need to be adjusted, cause that's also a potato every week or so, but to actually take part in what used to be the alert system you need a fairly significant amount of cred, and getting a daily amount I feel remedies this. Otherwise... Not really having issues with it, the inventory check missions are a little off putting, but I've been able to complete everything pretty quickly.

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19 hours ago, diaversai said:

Transmute 12 mods is gross. That's another using resources without a good reason.

 

12 mods for 3k standing(or more for S2) .. how is that gross .. if you are newbie i can understand but if you med or vet player then explain .. i have thousands copies of mods ...transmute 12 or even 1k for wolf cred is not bad at all 

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When it comes to nightwave I like how it gives challenges for me to complete however there is still room for improvement so here is a list of things that can improve it.

·       If there`s a challenge I can`t or don`t want to complete, there is an option to choose scroll to choose a different challenge. For example, you don`t want to do the 3 forma challenge, you have the option to choose either build 3 items from the foundry, rank up 3 mods or rank up an arcane up to 3.

·       Players should be rewarded if you are able to complete all challenges OR if you get the total or over the number of standing. The reward could be more wolf cred, 5000 standing or a double booster for standing from fugitives.

·       In normal missions, the fugitives should spawn every 5 min, endless and open world missions 10 min.

·       The fugitives should drop 100 standing in normal missions.

·       Wolf cred should be increased to 100. (or more)

·       Standing gained should also add to affinity and focus standing.

 

Much needed rewards

Because of nightwave, there is some item we can no longer get with the nightwave system does not provide. Here are some rewards I feel need to be added to nightwave for players to purchase;

¬∑¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† Argon crystals ‚Äď Because you are purchasing them, they should last 1 week. (costs 30 wolf cred for 2)

¬∑¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† Void traces ‚Äď Even though you can get them from doing fissure missions, you receive between 6 and 30 (40 if you‚Äôre lucky) which means the number you receive from doing them is not consistent. I can`t stress this enough THIS MUST COME BACK (costs 15 wolf cred for 50)

·       Tellurium - This is a very rare resource that can only be farmed from kuva and Uranus tilesets. (costs 15 wolf cred for 5)

¬∑¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† Kavat genetic codes ‚Äď Having to go to the delict just to scan the wild kavats it tedious and it`s all the time you will receive them when scanning them. (costs 10 wolf cred for 5)

 

Future rewards

Here is some reward I`d like to see come to nightwave;

·       Weapon skins ( skins that can be used on all of a specific weapon instead of one specific weapon e.g. tigris skin)

·       Nightwave stencil

·       Ornaments

·       Operator cosmetics

·       Armour pieces

·       Syandana (similar to syndicates)

·       Operator outfit

·       K-drive

·       Ship skin

·       New warframe and weapon mods

·       New weapons

·       New warframe (wishful thinking)

·       Exclusive warframe skins (all warframes can use)  

·       Exclusive idle animations (all warframes can use)  

·       Nora cosmetics (possibly)

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On 2019-05-10 at 11:56 PM, Yagatra said:

Thanks for the changes, sounds good overall!

So I'll be able to only catch up on one previous week, and if I have missed some of the older acts, I still won't be able to access them anymore? Honeslty, being able to go only one week back still leaves me somewhat anxious, could this grace period be extended to two-three weeks instead, please?

It shows missions from "a previous week" not "the previous week" which is to say that if you've missed challenges in any of the previous weeks it'll show them to you. It's not just a one week buffer.

That being said, the way they explained it means that even if you skipped doing a mission you loath (do X bounties for example) or could not possibly do (Profit Taker for example) you could get that mission in your catch-up queue and then because it's one at a time you're screwed.

So there's now less missions, and you can potentially do the ones that you missed, but you also get punished waaaaaaaaaay harder for skipping some or being unable to complete them.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-05-10 at 4:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:

3) Changes to Existing Acts!

  • 'With Clanmates / Friends' Act requirements¬†have been removed completely

Well that is great because it felt redundant to begin with.

However, are you seriously keeping "use forma 3 times"? That is one of the less appealing ones because it feels like "hey here you have 3 forma for reaching tier X" followed by "sorry, nope, you cant have them afterall".

Kinda didnt like the "gild" task either because it feels punishing for people who already have done it long ago for all the different modifiable items.

edit: Also, big big big thumbs up for the operator only spy. Will be fun.

Edited by SneakyErvin

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Thank you for responding to feedback! I still have a few in mind that I think need changes, and I'll give reasons why.

1. Nightwave creds need to be consistent throughout the entire Nightwave, for each rank
Those who need the rewards from the creds shop the most have the hardest time doing all acts each week (usually the newer players). Those who can do every acts don't need most of what the shop has in stores. Additionally, Prestige grants credits, but the people who can reach that are, again, the people who need cred shop items the less. Credit gain was my first worry and criticism before release and still is.

As an example of possible solution, if we still have a similar "fugitive capture" system in the next one, players should be given credits with EACH rank ups and each fugitive captures because of the points of my first post. That way, newer players can get rewarded more often and make purchases from the shop, and it rewards people from simply playing the game.

2. Bounty counts should be for bounty STAGES, not complete bounties
Halving the numbers may not change the low engagement in bounty variety for Nightwave by design. People may still be inclined on picking the lowest tier bounty and repeating that task (or Stage 2 of Profit-Taker if it's on the Vallis) because that's the quickest and most efficient solution. Technically, you're being punished (in time investment) for doing higher tiers. Reducing from 10 to 5 will not change that fact.

Proposed change: count the Bounty STAGES instead of whole bounty. For example, if you make it 15 stages required for a weekly, it will take 5 runs of low-tier bounties (which would match the 5 total bounties of your current proposed change), 4 runs of mid-tier, or 3 runs of high-tier. This may make players feel less strong-armed to play low bounties on repeat, as we won't be "penalized" in time-investment for picking higher tiers. Rather, we'll be rewarded if we're able to handle that tier. You'll also be able to kill two birds with one stone should higher-tier bounties have rewards you're looking for (Augur Secrets, etc).

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Good changes, but two have me concerned.

"Weekly

  • Complete 3 different K-Drive races in Orb Vallis¬† ÔĽŅ"

NO, just NO

 

"Elite Weekly

  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room."

Also, I hope that new players can't see this one.

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Posted (edited)

Could catch-up be separate between regular and Elite weekly challenges? I.E. doing all the reg weeklies let's you do miss regular weeklies, while you need to do all current elites to do previous elites.

Edited by Foefaller

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new primed mods could also be added as a  reward for nightwave high ranks and then later added to Baro's shop

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I like the changes but there are still things I'd like to see.

- The players should be rewarded (wolf)creds with ever new rank. This would make this system a little more friendly for newer players, who can't do most of the challanges. Getting Creds shouldn't be something the player has to worry about for most of the time, especially newer ones.

- Reduce the max rank and get rid of some of the more filler rewards. 15 or 20 ranks should be enough for most of the new items and outsource those "filler rewards" to prestige. (More on that later)

- Have missed - or how I'd like to call them - legacy challanges be on a list completely seperate to the active challanges, accessible through a button press or something. This way it's much more organized and makes catching up much more easy and not dependable on wether or not you can do the current challanges.

- Make prestige a bigger focus of the season. Each time you prestige (reach rank 20 and start over) you should get a reward compareable to sortie rewads (no ayatan statue!). Each rank within a prestige still gives you creds, but every second rank you get a random reward on top of the creds, like a bunch of rare ressources, endo, forma, potato, nitain etc.

- Have special alerts in the last week of the season with exclusive items.

- At the end of the season, give out a special, multi choice customization reward for all players who prestiged at least once. Like an emote, a sigil or a skin.

- Increase the rewards for fugitives from 50 standing per capture to 200. Have Wolf reward you 1000 per kill.

- Get rid of ressource-wasting challanges, like socking ayatan statues, guilding etc.

 

I really like Nightwave, there is potential to make it special and I hope DE continues to work on it.

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Maybe rather than have Wolf continue to appear anywhere at random (not even linked to a mark like the other assassins) maybe just keep his current boss nodes above Saturn and have him appear at random JUST on Saturn. Basically make him like Ambulas, who appears anywhere on Pluto randomly but also has a node where you can fight a stronger version of them.

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