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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Nightwave Changes for Series 2

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Am 10.5.2019 um 16:54 schrieb [DE]Bear:

 

1) Playing Catch-Up: Stored, Missed Acts!

2) Degrindification!

3) Changes to Existing Acts!

4) New Acts!

5) The Emissary

6) The Wolf 
 

this is my first post and english is not my native tongue, so please bear with me. i try to cover stuff i'm thinking the last couple of days, so i do hope i will not scare anyone with a rather long post ...

first and most important, players need to be reminded that they DO NOT need to do every challenge. i hit rank 50 in series 1, which means i "overplayed" for 200K standing - i think the massiv problem in the player base is a compulsory "i want to have everything, i want to do everything" - even if that means to do the quest "pet your pet 50 times" - people will complain doing it, while doing it rather than just skipping it. its just my gut feeling and i know there are dozen of types of players out there. but u get my point. series 1 showed me that i can easily skip something and still get my tier30 rewards.

1.) catchup - good idea. i can see, that some people can't afford playing every day / every week wf - so this is a good change -> maybe change the daily missions into weeklys as well? with 1K standing ofc but the flexibility that i can do them, when i want. Or maybe even not only having the option of catching up one week ago but also one week in the future - this will be a little more effort to already schedule 1-2-3 weeks in advance but still it gives way more flexibilty in achieving all the quests and creating a safe polster when to skip challenges i dont want. a progress bar showing me that im "way ahead" of an estimated reach will help me, get a grip on what i really need to do and what not. my biggest issue in series 1: i had no feeling if am ahead or behind.... a visualization would greatly help here. On the other side, the first series worked rather fine for me - i hit rank 50 & i wasn't doing all the events.

2&3.) Overall a good idea to decrease the grind, but i see "6 different bounties" and "6 different captures" being more time-consuming. in series 1 i was just doing 10 profit taker runs, which gave me credits, standing, ressources etc.pp and fulfilling the challenge passively. now with different bounties im afraid on needing to do the other bounties which i dont want to, because i dont need the standing from these, nor the rewards and it will take more useless time. so your plan in reducing the grind actually increases that. i like doing the challenges passively and most of the time it was manageable -> 3 mobile defense or exterminate as fissure or even in sorties.

Ayatan-Socketing, Formaing and Gilding needs to be gone - or at least lower the standing to 1K so players already maxed their gear wont need to pass on to many standing there ... and here come my biggest issue, combined with 4.) Hooray for some new Acts/Challenges - but i am really missing FLAVOR! So far, nightwave felt utterly chaotic and has no link at all. Why am i doing this or that? Mission types are kinda base-warframe AND FUN, but we really don't need to have any possible challenge like "switch your warframes colors 10 times"

Warframe, for me, is a Space-Ninja-Stealthy-Sometimes-Killing-Lots-of-Baddassess-the-Rest-of-the-Time-Game. With the addition of K-Drives, Floofs and some other nonsense i am loosing my cool vibe for the game and just spending resources on stuff i dont need, has absolutely no flavor at all and especially no benefit for a series of "the wolf of saturn six": Series 1 was about a hunting lonesome warrior and "all" we had to do was mine gems or scan stuff. That's maybe warframe in the time being but thats neither the game i fell in love with nor is it a cool gimmick. If i want to skate I play tony hawk (and i freaking hated leveling FOUR k-drives) and i am no manga.lover either - i don#t want to capture stupid animals - i am a killing machine stealth ninja. Yes, i can just ignore these parts, but i was not having great of a time while fishing or mining - this felt too much of WOW to me and lets be honest - warframe is much much cooler than "comic ressourcening" ...
I know, i have to speak for myself, so if anyone likes the floofs - fine, implented stuff which is related to that, needed to be done to acquire something else which is then also related to this (capture animals -> get floof) but don't force me to do k-races if i want to have an umbra forma. I know, I can skip the races and still collect enough standing, but still.

Rabbling on and on will not provide any feedback, i tried to explain what i dont like and the reason (missing flavor) - please dont expect every player to also have unique ideas on how it could be better, i am no game designer, its not my job nor passion to have ideas - and i dont want to post stupid ideas neither. so, all i can say is, keep the games flavor and don't ruin it with just doing stuff for the sake of it. whats the flavor of these tasks anyway? that players earn something. they have to play the game, okay i get that, but socketing is no fun part.

I would love a concept which maybe follows the nature of (speaking of stupid ideas):

  • exterminate missions, (kill lots of bad guys) rewards you with more weapons/damage-based mods
  • maybe even distinguish: cold mods drop in icy corpus world, the heat mods on venus...
  • survivals, endurance based, rewards you more with (warframe)mods like vitality
  • spy missions rewards you more with stuff on stealthy approaches

Instinctively i know and feel what i want to do.

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36 minutes ago, Kylo. said:

You telling me I can't do "Fish 6 Rare Fish in Plains of Eidolon" on Orb Vallis ?

You completely missed the joke...

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On 2019-05-10 at 8:43 AM, Kylo. said:

Why would Operator Mode not trigger lasers?

They said "Operator Void Mode."

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Posted (edited)

Catch-up feedback:

Good. That's actually what I suggested in one of the threads and I'm glad it's coming, but the implementation is a bit concerning. You're making it so they appear after you complete all your current weekly acts, but what if there's one you can't complete? be it by newer players or "pc specs". I know, I know the pc specs part is not DE's problem but here's the thing. If a player can't handle Profit Taker fight in the Vallis for example, they could opt to skip that one and wait for a new reset because you only needed 60% of acts to reach max rank or so, but with that new catch up mechanic that option is gone.

Also, in addition to missed acts being accesible, what about giving every act an optional bonus? Say you got for example a "Complete 3 Spy Missions" act for like 3.000 standing, then it would have a bonus challenge for not triggering any alarms or being detected for an extra 500~1.000 standing (numbers are just examples).

Edited by Vanille
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Honestly when I heard Rebecca say “There will be less challenges for the same amount of standing” I was horrified. The already small amount of standing we can get each week from Nightwave is pretty bad for the amount of Wolf Cred we get, only 4 tiers a week at max, but now you want to reduce that? Probably down to 3 tiers a week? Why? Why why why? This has got to be one of the things the community begged for more of, not less of. If there are less challenges, then we’ll be forced to do all of them every week. It will no longer be a casual “do 60% a week” it will be “if you miss 1 week you’re screwed.” Coming from a player who needs almost all of the rewards Nightwave has to offer (ie Wep BP’s, Nitain, Auras, Catalysts and Reactors, etc), please please PLEASE don’t reduce the low amount of standing we can already get from Nightwave every week. This is not an improvement, and I highly recommend you reverse this change before we reach the next season.

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"Same amount of standing" means you will get as much standing per week as before but with less effort.

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What matters is what the reward chain is. If it's the same as before (I know they're frontloading credits), then...meh. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)MrHallows said:

They said "Operator Void Mode."

Go on...

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Please consider removing the polarize with forma challenge, forced use of resources like forma when we may not necessarily have equipment that needs to be forma'd isn't a good thing.

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On 2019-05-10 at 3:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:

When both Weekly and Elite Weekly Acts are completed for a week, a ‘missed’ Act from a previous week will be available to play and complete. Once you have completed all ‘missed’ Acts, they will no longer appear, only to be refreshed in the next week’s rotation.

This isn't as smart as you think, for example profit taker and ESO.

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Why won't you change the current one then?

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I am hoping the, 'gild a modular weapon' achievement, will no longer be present as well.

It is pretty pointless to craft one, level it, then gild...
Just to sell it again, or have it fill weapon slots.

There are definately more intuitive challenges.
I have full faith in the team.

 

It also crawls a bit into the forma one slightly.

Imagine you have everything forma'd and ready.
You'd be forced to polarize your naramon, into a naramon, for example.
Just to complete the achievement.

 

Loving the mentioned changes most definately, allready. :heart:

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Can you separate the Weekly and Elite Acts for the catch up?  I have never completed all the Elite Acts because of my MR and progress in the Star Chart.  Is these catch up acts going to keep to progress you made on them or would you have to start them over?

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Completely missed the line about the 3 K-Drive races when I read the OP the first time.

All I can say is hell no. This will be one of those tasks I simply wont do because the K-Drive system is so utterly clunky, plus the lack of directions to races and so on.

I guess that means there are 3 acts I wont do when they pop up. 

1. 3x Forma

2. Gild some crap

3. K-Drive races

I wish you could just accept that K-Drives werent the hit you hoped for. "Forcing" us to use it wont make it better or the players more happy.

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Hey everyone, I saw a few complains about forma use and gilding, and I wanna add my grain of salt :

-forma : don't like that one either, will not do the one currently on :p

-gilding : works with mote amp sold by onkko, so you don't actually have to craft zaw or kitgun, it's cheaper and faster (still kinda boring but well)

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If including K-Drive races, perhaps also include an Archwing act as well.  I enjoy Archwing but hate K-Drive, but there are those who enjoy K-Drive but hate Archwing.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-05-10 at 9:54 AM, [DE]Bear said:
  • Complete any '60 minute Survival' Act reduced to 30 minutes
  • Pet your Kubrow or Kavat (Very Important)
  • Complete a Spy mission using your Operator. Warframe cannot leave spawn room.

I feel obligated to pass along thoughts from our Endgame Clan after much discussion.

 

1) We were excited and it brought a feeling of accomplishment / happiness with the 60 minute survival missions, as this allowed us to get credit for it while acquiring Kuva. Even with defense 40 waves, etc ~ for it to mean 'Elite' ~ it felt right. Not just cutting it to 45 minutes, but cutting in half - it's a joke. There's no challenge here. There's nothing, absolutely 'nothing' that is elite about it.

2) Petting your companion? This is regular maintenance regardless if you don't log in or pay attention to it. At least marking resources for some players could be seen as advantageous, this task is garbage. Rewarding people for it too? smfh

3) This is cool, abstract, and for many could be difficult.

 

This all presents a strange message.

  • You have the most intense players pushing 5x3 captures, but you removed raids.
  • You introduce 60 minute weekly survival tasks which pushed your average player and is only a challenge in the last 15m or so for those moving towards high-end play, then you cut it in half to where it's a joke of a task.
  • You have hinted at adding a difficulty slider / adjustment for missions - haven't seen or heard of progress. Arbitrations themselves are insanely dull for 4 organized team-mates until the 30-40 minute mark, while normal missions can take an hour just to get interesting.
  • You have gimped the grind process for Cetus - going all the way streamline & casual and crashed an entire platinum market for dedicated players

 

I understand the need to make money - I do. Trying to get players to join and stick with your game is understandable too. I also understand a majority of gamers especially in the free to play market are more casual players. But just like FFX|V, WoW, & so many others, you're streamlining the experience to capture people who may only play for a few months while the year-long veterans are suffering from vast content lulls and a sincere & complete lack of serious content.

And no, the Thermia Fracture event is not considerable to me as 'new (serous) content'. It is a silly grind that is way too repetitive and by round 50 I had to drink myself to the finish line just to complete it and it felt way too forced. What's more is that once you've done it, there is literally no incentive for players to keep doing it as you have more than enough materials to spawn the boss for the drops you need.

We have been looking forward to this new 'game mode' and the upcoming Operation / Clan Event. Hopefully tides will turn. But the direction with Nightwave went from interesting to annoyingly casual extremely fast.

 

I hope this will be answered from the developer: Do you have sincere plans that will be brought to fruition in the year 2019 to captivate endgame & mid to hardcore players?

Edited by Kino8
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The Hell with K-Drive races, The Hell with conservation tasks and The Hell with gilding kitguns.

The even more Hell with the season ending even later ( May 19th and having a GAP aka the new one won't start right after )

GG DE you never fail to surprise me

🤣🤣🤣

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Am I the only one that really doesn't like the operator Spy vaults as a new challenge?  Operators are so abominably slow and cumbersome for navigating a level compared to warframes, and this feels like an equally shallow attempt to force us into using them as a mechanic as Eidolons being completely immune to all damage until operators drop shields.  

Before anyone says anything, I've just about finished unbinding all way bound nodes (just Unairu left) and I actually typically use Naramon anyway for melee finisher fun and maintaining combo counter, so I could have used the increased dash range even without unbinding.  Pairing that with Zenurik energy pool and the innate energy refund on dashing through targets does allow perma-invisibility and perma-invulnerability (really balanced, that, by the way), I'm aware.  But it's still cumbersome because it's extremely erratic and you're jetting in fits and spurts through a confined tileset (since Spy vaults aren't like an open world).

It also seems really dumb because there is no stipulation to do it "alone" or "with all vaults extracted" so it sounds like you can fail two of them or even just camp spawn in a public mission, which seems to encourage AFK behavior.

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I will never, never use my slow, plodding, ugly, weak Operator for anything remotely important in this game, so every Nightwave challenge involving Operators is going unfinished by me. Guaranteed. That goes triple for Spy missions.

The Ayatan socket one is basically a free win for me whenever it appears. Newer players should get in the habit of running Maroo's Ayatan mission whenever it appears. The "Transmute Mods" one will actually hurt me the most... that's a big amount of credits (at least 144,000 without Transmutation Cores) to waste on getting back 3 Pressure Points, 2 Reaches, 5 Warm Coats, a North Wind and a Maglev (or some mostly-common-with-some-uncommon mixture like that). The longer you've been playing the game, the lower the chance of getting something you don't already have from a Transmute.  😐

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Will you be able to get the rewards from season 1? Because I really want to get that howl emote.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Maganar said:

Am I the only one that really doesn't like the operator Spy vaults as a new challenge?  Operators are so abominably slow and cumbersome for navigating a level compared to warframes, and this feels like an equally shallow attempt to force us into using them as a mechanic as Eidolons being completely immune to all damage until operators drop shields. 

I don't have a problem with it being difficult. It's supposed to be a challenge, and it's OK for those to be hard, as long as it isn't punishing IMO. Where that line is will differ from person to person I guess, but you don't have to do everything.

You do raise some good points about whether you need to do anything at all, or just let someone else do it while you stay in operator.

Edited by Llamatronian

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48 minutes ago, Maganar said:

Operators are so abominably slow and cumbersome for navigating a level compared to warframes

This is a good point. I love my operator but the toggle from walk to run is so minimal that I sometimes dont even know what mode I'm in. Maybe increase the run speed a bit so they feel like an actual person instead of a bug trapped on a sticky pad. 

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I have issues with the ayatan sculpture act because it is trivialised by not doing something. I will always keep multiple sculptures empty now, just for when that challenge pops up. It's done in seconds, so it isn't really any sort of challenge any more. Maybe make the challenge to pick up or be awarded ayatan sculptures instead maybe. You get one for free from Maroo, finding one or two more from arbitrations, sorties, or in missions would be reasonable.

The forma and gilding acts have the same issue. For example, I've been thinking about making a 100% status chance rattleguts kit-gun (good for turbo-charging condition overload melee) but now I won't do it until the gilding act pops up again. Don't reward procrastination.

In general, I'd like the acts to be more interesting in some way. "Kill 1500 enemies" or "Run 3 exterminate missions" aren't really interesting because they will most likely happen anyway. Make me do something I wouldn't normally do, or haven't done in a while. Running nightmare missions or vault runs are better acts from that point of view. Some ideas of varying quality:

  • Complete a spy mission leaving all enemies alive.
  • Elite: Kill or capture an Eidolon Teralyst alone.
  • Deal 1 million damage in a single shot. Maybe adjust to a reasonable number, but make sure aoe and punch through are options. Detonating multiple grenades at once should also count.
  • Similar to 40 wave defence, but for the other endless types. 8 excavators, 8 rounds of interception, etc.
  • Kill X enemies with a fishing spear.
  • Play an 3 arch-wing missions. Maybe not the best idea, but not something I would normally do 😉.

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Posted (edited)

"Transmute 12 Mods"     ughhh  please no,  All I ever do is get disappointed by the rng.

 

1 hour ago, Llamatronian said:

Kill X enemies with a fishing spear. 

Lul.  Elite Weekly: Kill Alad V with only a fishing spear equipped.

-

Additional suggestions:

> Craft a tune on the mandachord

> Mission speed runs [ Complete in X minutes. Killing people does not give you additional time.]

> Entirely pacifist spy missions

> Acquire a death mark

Edited by Reaper76OTP

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