Cautious shot and bandaid mods

[PortalsFTW]

So it turns out that removing 99% of a modded launcher's damage will still result in most warframes accidentally exploding in one misplaced shot. Some may argue that the reduction to self damage on cautious shot should be 100%. However, even if this was the case, I would argue that the concept for the mod itself is flawed. This is because cautious shot is a bandaid mod, something that both the community and DE have expressed distaste for, yet DE still seems to create these mods regardless.

A bandaid mod is a mod that seeks to fix a problem with the game's functions, in this case the hinderance caused by exessive self damage on launchers. However, in order to apply this "fix," a player must use a mod slot on their weapon, reducing the weapon's effectiveness significantly because a useful mod could be used in its place. This "fix" also requires significant investment from a player in the form of vitus essence, endo and credits. To summarize, even if cautious shot reduced self damage by 100% it would still cost players for a fix that should really be applied to how self damage functions.

My suggestion to resolve this issue is as follows: Remove cautious shot from the game entirely, then refund players who own this mod for the vitus essence, endo and credits spent on it. Perhaps even give out some free platinum as an appology for blundering with this mod so much and failing to stop the implementation of bandaid mods (see edit). Next, change how self damage works across all self damage weapons. My suggestion for this is that self damage is always half of a weapon's base (unmodded) damage, with no application of crits or status. That way self damage will stay in the game as DE seems to want, but it will be far less deadly.

To conclude, DE should look into which mods could be considered bandaid mods, remove them, and apply fixes to the game's systems rather than forcing players to apply these fixes themselves. Cautious shot is one of these examples. Other than cautious shot, DE should consider the following: In a game based around looting, should loot vacuum really be applied to a mod for pets rather than being truly universal? Now that switching between guns and melee is instantaneous, is there a reason why mods are needed to increase switching speed between primary and secondary weapons? Now that enemy CC is getting excessive in some cases, is there a reason why a space ninja takes so long to stand up from knockdown without a specific mod?

Edit: To address those concerned with my suggestion for platinum being given to owners of cautious shot should it be removed, do note that this is only a suggestion. I do not plan to benefit from such a thing myself, as I do not own cautious shot (because it is useless). I suggested this because, if the mod is removed, those who traded for it may be angered that they spent platinum on a mod that was removed from the game. Nor would I expect much platinum to be given (cautious shot seems to trade for 20-40p usually). Often when companies make mistakes and need to remove trade-able items, there is some form of small compensation as a form of good will. This is all I am suggesting.

Edited May 11, 2019 by PortalsFTW

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, PortalsFTW said:

Perhaps even give out some free platinum as an appology

You might as well write this on a piece of paper, tie it to a stone and throw it as hard as you can towards the sun.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

2 hours ago, PortalsFTW said:

 Perhaps even give out some free platinum as an appology for blundering with this mod so much and failing to stop the implementation of bandaid mods

The amount of entitlement here disturbs me.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

3 hours ago, PortalsFTW said:

So it turns out that removing 99% of a modded launcher's damage will still result in most warframes accidentally exploding in one misplaced shot. Some may argue that the reduction to self damage on cautious shot should be 100%. However, even if this was the case, I would argue that the concept for the mod itself is flawed. This is because cautious shot is a bandaid mod, something that both the community and DE have expressed distaste for, yet DE still seems to create these mods regardless.

A bandaid mod is a mod that seeks to fix a problem with the game's functions, in this case the hinderance caused by exessive self damage on launchers. However, in order to apply this "fix," a player must use a mod slot on their weapon, reducing the weapon's effectiveness significantly because a useful mod could be used in its place. This "fix" also requires significant investment from a player in the form of vitus essence, endo and credits. To summarize, even if cautious shot reduced self damage by 100% it would still cost players for a fix that should really be applied to how self damage functions.

My suggestion to resolve this issue is as follows: Remove cautious shot from the game entirely, then refund players who own this mod for the vitus essence, endo and credits spent on it. Perhaps even give out some free platinum as an appology for blundering with this mod so much and failing to stop the implementation of bandaid mods. Next, change how self damage works across all self damage weapons. My suggestion for this is that self damage is always half of a weapon's base (unmodded) damage, with no application of crits or status. That way self damage will stay in the game as DE seems to want, but it will be far less deadly.

To conclude, DE should look into which mods could be considered bandaid mods, remove them, and apply fixes to the game's systems rather than forcing players to apply these fixes themselves. Cautious shot is one of these examples. Other than cautious shot, DE should consider the following: In a game based around looting, should loot vacuum really be applied to a mod for pets rather than being truly universal? Now that switching between guns and melee is instantaneous, is there a reason why mods are needed to increase switching speed between primary and secondary weapons? Now that enemy CC is getting excessive in some cases, is there a reason why a space ninja takes so long to stand up from knockdown without a specific mod?

Here's an idea... Aim when you shoot and don't shoot an enemy point blank troll.

[PortalsFTW]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

The amount of entitlement here disturbs me.

First off, let me just say that I do not own cautious shot and do not personally expect to receive platinum should it be removed. Nor am I expecting that a large amount of platinum be given to people who do own it. I simply suggested (note the "perhaps") this as when something trade-able is removed from the game, it may anger those who traded for it, hence the need for compensation.

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Here's an idea... Aim when you shoot and don't shoot an enemy point blank troll.

A truly amazing idea. While it sounds good on paper, this does not always go according to plan in warframe's tight hallways and hoards of enemies. Not to mention teammates jumping unexpectedly in front of you. If you had been bothered to read my post, you would have noticed that I did not advocate for the removal of self damage, just a toning down of it without requiring a specific mod. The fact that you dismissed my points by calling me a "troll" is not particularly constructive, so maybe you should examine your own behavior before using that word.

[Chipputer]

You know full well what would happen if they removed or toned down self damage. We'd have the Tonkor meta all over again, except with a different launching weapon. It was bad then and it'd still be bad now.

I much prefer people downing themselves every so often over literally standing in front of enemies and using a launcher like a shotgun.

[ReshyShira]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

You know full well what would happen if they removed or toned down self damage. We'd have the Tonkor meta all over again, except with a different launching weapon. It was bad then and it'd still be bad now.

I much prefer people downing themselves every so often over literally standing in front of enemies and using a launcher like a shotgun.

You really don't understand how much power creep has been affecting this game.  Most of those weapons, despite their drawbacks, aren't any better than your standard weapons.

[Chipputer]

13 hours ago, ReshyShira said:

You really don't understand how much power creep has been affecting this game.  Most of those weapons, despite their drawbacks, aren't any better than your standard weapons.

Or perhaps-- just perhaps-- I know exactly what I'm saying as I regularly pull out my Secura Penta and I can tell you that, while weapons like the Tonkor might have been reduced to MR fodder, not all of them have been hit by that infamous, "power creep," to the extent that your post is implying. Removal of self damage would lead to people point-blank shooting Secura Penta with the Napalm Grenades mod, treating the weapon exactly like a shotgun which is exactly what the Tonkor meta entailed.

[birdobash]

2 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Or perhaps-- just perhaps-- I know exactly what I'm saying as I regularly pull out my Secura Penta and I can tell you that, while weapons like the Tonkor might have been reduced to MR fodder, not all of them have been hit by that infamous, "power creep," to the extent that your post is implying. Removal of self damage would lead to people point-blank shooting Secura Penta with the Napalm Grenades mod, treating the weapon exactly like a shotgun which is exactly what the Tonkor meta entailed.

The big problem with your arguement is the fact that when the tonkor meta was a thing, things like nuke-frames, hybrid heavy blade & polearms with condition overload, and kitguns didn't exist at the time(the nuke-frames technically did but not at this level).

The only reason tonkor was meta at the time was because other weapons and gear were not as good at clearing hordes as the tonkor and other launchers did at the time, which has now dramatically done a flip, where even if launcher weapons were to deal no self damage, the fact that a saryn can wipe a whole map easily or an Inaros twirling around with a gram prime can just as easily clear hordes if not better. This means that there are many other options in the game now.

Even if all launcher weapons were to deal no self damage it is not bold to assume that the meta in the game rn would change at all. Kitguns would still be meta for guns since they are so powerful and specifically catchmoon clears so well, zaws and heavy blades would still dominate melee with their enormous range and usage of condition overload, nukeframes like Saryn and Equinox would still dominate map clearance since their clear range is so large. On the contrary, I think it is VERY bold of you to assume that removing self damage off launchers and explosives would suddenly make them meta again, when there are so many options ingame currently which are outright better.

 

[Robolaser]

Really, how often do you guys run out of revives because of self-damage? I bet rarely, if ever. Sure, launchers might not be the safest weapon choice in hours long survivals for example, but these are already self imposed challenges anyway.

In my opinion and from my experience, cautious shot doesn't need to be more than a "bandaid" mod, because in most of the game's content self damage is a non-issue. At worst, maybe an occasional, mild annoyance for teammates, but usually when i blow myself up a bit too often i just apologize, people reply "lol", i take less silly risks for the rest of the 5-20min mission, and that's it.

____

If i had to change anything, i'd just make that mod easily available and upgradable for early beginners, so that they don't get too frustrated while learning the basics. At their level, the amount of damage required to kill enemies is low enough for CS to work, even with half ranked frame mods.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Robolaser