pook-pook Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Positives: the Vor storyline works well to introduce a new player to a bunch of the mechanics. Once it's over though... The game comes completely off the rails, there's just no way to sugar-coat it, it's just plain broken. I had friends help me understand what to do when I started playing, and that was (just) prior to PoE. My kid just started playing, made it through Vor just fine. Chose Excalibur with the Paris, Kunai and Bo because NINJAS IN SPACE (and also a strong Overwatch ninja brothers influence). Has a bunch of fun! Yeah! So once the Vor mission ends: "what am I supposed to do now???" which I think we all understand is a common problem.There's lots *to* do, but none of it's explained at all. Kid had no idea there were more quests. So, finally we figure that Cetus is the next stop, and that kicks off the Gara storyline, which involves Sentients ("what the heck are sentients?!") and a bunch of missions on the plains. Only, we're still running rank 4-6 gear, with the mk-1 Paris, Kunai and Bo. Unranked mods, if any at all. On the Plains of Eidolon. With @#$%ers up in the sky that are hard to hit with a bow at the best of times and just try taking one out with a rank 4 mk-1 Paris with an unranked Serration. Yeah. Lots of frustrating deaths, trying to scan hard-to-see little things around the place. Ragequit. Probably won't come back to the game. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 'does something that isn't suppose to be done' 'blames game for it' 'quit' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmega18 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) @pook-pooksorry it had to happen that way. I can probably imagine the frustration, it's just as well you never got to venus and decided to go to the vallis and get yeeted over and over again by terra moas and vastly stronger corpus compared to their starchart variants. I think what you need is a slightly further ahead friend to hype you up and show you whats to offer and hang out with. But a lot of the direction is mostly just playing carefully at first and following the lines on the starchart to different missions then doing the quests as they unlock. Just know, it's easy to unlock a bunch of other MK-1 weapons that are more suited to those kinds of fights. Openworld fights are generally really hard to stealth cause of their increased vision radius to make up for the larger and more open maps, and without ways to deal with the calldown drones will most likely flood you with enemies as soon as you engage. Direction is a bit of an issue for new players, where most of the time they learn of the direction to take from videos and the ideas within them or asking around. I'd be down to help you get some chill back after that ragequit and explain some stuff. hardest part of the game probably is the start. but once you get into the swing of it you'll just take off like a rocket on a solar rail. I know I did. Consider it, if you ever see this. Edited May 12, 2019 by Darkmega18 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pook-pook Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) If my kid does come back from the ragequit, I plan on making sure there's a hitscan primary in the kit so that the Plains are feasible... Also, thanks for the great response @Darkmega18 ! Edited May 12, 2019 by pook-pook 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xico.xide Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GinKenshin said: 'does something that isn't suppose to be done' 'blames game for it' 'quit' wait, what did i miss? Is PoE not supposed to be one of the immediate places a new player can go to and have a fun quest to complete? They're not supposed to do that? If new players AREN'T supposed to do that, isn't that the problem that's being discussed in this thread? That the new player doesn't know? Edited May 12, 2019 by Xico.xide 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmega18 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, pook-pook said: If my kid does come back from the ragequit, I plan on making sure there's a hitscan primary in the kit so that the Plains are feasible... braton mk-1 and lato will do fine. 15k credits a hit. not the greatest, but not the worst at all given it's an immediate buy. back then, I kinda saw fights being an issue if I didn't have a weapon that was gun like and kinda went with paris at first for a hefty stealthable weapon, but instead of kunai went the pistol so if a fire fight did ensue I'd have something both accurate and hitscan to deal with enemies at a quicker rate. the melee weapon is somewhat inconsequential, just a speed and damage type change and a difference in hit timing/attack animations. but went sword, cause definitely a fan of swords. Edited May 12, 2019 by Darkmega18 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pook-pook Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, GinKenshin said: 'does something that isn't suppose to be done' 'blames game for it' 'quit' The game *tells you to do that thing* 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000l000 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 il y a 8 minutes, pook-pook a dit : If my kid does come back from the ragequit, I plan on making sure there's a hitscan primary in the kit so that the Plains are feasible... And he didn't even encounter a Bolkor in the sky yet ! PoE can be quite hard at start, at least it was for my wife and I, until we get better gear and know the game better. This game isn't noob friendly at all and really needs a lot of adaptability, nothing is ever really explained so joining a clan or playing with friends/parents can help a lot. Unless you're spending a lot of time here or on the wiki, other players can give a lot of hints. And you'll most certainly end up running everywhere with a spin-2-win Saryn and an Ignis wraith... There's a "players helping players" section though if you're looking for advices on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekroArts Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, pook-pook said: So once the Vor mission ends: "what am I supposed to do now???" which I think we all understand is a common problem.There's lots *to* do, but none of it's explained at all. Kid had no idea there were more quests. The problem about this is that you will have players that not only thinks in one dimension, but also only focus on that one dimension. I'm not saying that Warframe is fine without guiding their new players a little, but being focus on that one thing and not considering maybe you should come back to it later is part of the issue of why new players will get lost. At best there are three immediate things that they need to concern themselves about: understanding mods and modding, getting through the Star Chart (not including the open worlds), and using the Foundry. If they decide to touch on any other things beside those three, they need develop a habit of "accepting to revisit that content later" otherwise they will hit a pseudo-wall. I will blame DE on making Saya's Vigil being available to new players as it does not line up with the progression of the game both story- and "getting stronger"-wise, they need to make this available after the Second Dream where the Sentients gets a proper introduction. Edited May 12, 2019 by NekroArts 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pook-pook Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, NekroArts said: I will blame DE on making Saya's Vigil being available to new players as it does not line up with the progression of the game both story- and "getting stronger"-wise; they need to make this available after the Second Dream where the Sentients gets a proper introduction. Yeah, the way it references stuff that's introduced in other quests is jarring. I didn't even mention coming over to watch them *walking all over the plains everywhere, maybe sprinting sometimes* because unlike all us vets, bullet-jumping isn't second nature yet and of course there's no archwing or hoverboard. So painful. Edited May 12, 2019 by pook-pook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, pook-pook said: The game *tells you to do that thing* 1- it doesn't 2- it directly tells you that you "don't want to be out here at night" 3- even when the game directs you towards something, the devs and the game expects you to have some common sense and knowledge to know that whatever it is you're doing might be a bit outta your league and that you should try something else....you know, like clearing the starchart? 4- ok, so you got your kid to play the game, that's sweet....but what's that, he ragequitted? that's odd.....I think having your parent as your guide would be really helpful in, you know, guiding you through the game? why didn't you help your kid again? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)OmegaFalrion Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 I mean... Very first thing you do is install the market... Which shows everything as plat to buy, rather blueprints... Which also drives people away 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanillaDragon Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) Plains of Eidolon isn't very beginner friendly. Or Orb Vallis, for that matter. Which you can't really know because the game is notoriously bad at explaining what to do or pointing you to the right direction when you're new. I was also trying to deal with the Bounties of PoE early on and it felt frustrating and I had to keep joining random parties... and then high rank players would just breeze through them before I could reach the target location and that just wasn't fun. For farming Bounty rewards it's great but not when you want to enjoy the gameplay. And at the beginning you might have little to no idea what the mastery ranks even are and how they're gained etc. So I understand. Bows and kunai are a lot of fun to use but slow projectiles definitely aren't the best tool to take out fast flying enemies like the Dargyns. While mostly everything can be done with enough effort, it's less frustrating to at least have a more precise secondary weapon on PoE. Eventually, you'll have different warframes with different weapons which will turn PoE and Orb Vallis into a more pleasant experience. After Vor's Prize, I think it's worth starting with the star chart and the nodes on Earth and continue from there. Explore. Try different planets. Get to know your frame. Assassination nodes on different planets will drop parts for new warframes. Like Venus - Fossa. The boss fight might be a little tricky at first (Excalibur is, imo, really great here, though) but it will give you Rhino parts, which is a very practical, sturdy warframe. If you want stories and quests, do Howl of the Kubrow which will help you get a pet, or Once Awake and The Archwing etc., which actually explain some of the game's mechanics and get you essential equipment. Leave things like Vox Solaris when you feel more confident. Also, the wiki is your friend when it comes to learning where and how to get various warframes and weapons (without paying platinum) and other info that you're unclear about. Edited May 12, 2019 by VanillaDragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pook-pook Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, GinKenshin said: 1- it doesn't Leaving Earth requires "go to Cetus" ok, go to cetus "talk to Konzu" ok talk to Konzu "he has a quest for you" ok do the quest 7 minutes ago, GinKenshin said: 4- ok, so you got your kid to play the game, that's sweet....but what's that, he ragequitted? that's odd.....I think having your parent as your guide would be really helpful in, you know, guiding you through the game? why didn't you help your kid again? The game should not require me to handhold a new player. Edited May 12, 2019 by pook-pook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)OmegaFalrion Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just saying... *literally any game* Pssshhh I don't need a tutorial, how hard can this run and gun game be *Warframe* Oh god after 0.36 seconds... What on earth do I do, how do I shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteMarker Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 52 minutes ago, pook-pook said: The game should not require me to handhold a new player. Nobody held my hand when I started playing. I learned everything by doing it, by testing. I tried what I can do, or what I couldn't do. I love the fact more people play videogames these days. But I hate the fact that people are just lost. Nobody wants to explore anymore. And it's funny. You say, a game shouldn't require you to help the hand of a new player. You want the game to hold the hand of a new player. If I'm honest, I think it's better if players help other players instead of the game telling everything. Because of this Warframe feels like a living universe. If a game tells me everything, and if I don't need the help of other players, it always just feels like a simulation. Like a game. But not like something alive... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test-995 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 This game is more closer to anti-newbie in many ways, but every new contents is same, even for "veteran" players... (earliest one is exploiter/thumper spawn) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmega18 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, pook-pook said: Leaving Earth requires "go to Cetus" ok, go to cetus "talk to Konzu" ok talk to Konzu "he has a quest for you" ok do the quest The game should not require me to handhold a new player. think of it more like, a helpful nudge/guide/guardian angel. if I end up chancing upon a new looking player (MR 4 or earlier) and I'm not with a bunch of impatient pros running ahead I tend to go into meet and greet tutorial man mode and try to let them take point and just stick around to rez them incase they get yeeted and maybe give hints and stuff, then maybe after that give helpful critique, words of warning, hints, extend a hand of friendship if they get stuck etc.... kinda just aswell. One of my original characters from another game-like original universe acts as a tutorial/mentor guy for that universe and looks after the metaphysical book that apparently contains all it's knowledge... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)FriendSharkey Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Six years in and I find myself hoping that the New War is DE's version of the Thanos Snap..and clears out 50% of the game's unplayed content... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanchak Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 I just wonder why people don't even seem to poke around in the game or read anything anymore. I was lost as a noob too. I clicked everything, read everything, walked around my ship, looked at all the consoles, looked at chat, opened menus.... etc etc Can it be made better? Most definitely, but common sense and a simple click here and there doesn't hurt either. Too, the starmap itself is basically connect the dots nowadays, it's almost impossible to get lost. Click stuff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnarlsDarkley Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Xico.xide said: isn't that the problem that's being discussed in this thread? No it isn't, at least I don't think so. @pook-pook wanted to vent, which is ok but can hit deaf ears. We (attentive players) know what DE is planning: DE has a seperate small team dedicated to redesign the beginning of the game to make it easier for new players. So this feedback isn't new and thus not really useful for this team to improve this issue 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CoI-IAmNotMatthew Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 6 hours ago, pook-pook said: Leaving Earth requires "go to Cetus" ok, go to cetus "talk to Konzu" ok talk to Konzu "he has a quest for you" ok do the quest Leaving Earth requires you to collect some mods, do Vor's Prize, fuse a mod and install some mods, It's Mantle-Lith/Gaia-Cambria. don't see Cetus there, it's the other way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexOmega111x Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Il y a 3 heures, GnarlsDarkley a dit : We (attentive players) know what DE is planning: Right. But if DE is revamping the beginning of the game, it is also the prove that this is a problem. New players have to go thru all the content at once. The same content you were able to discover piece by piece with the implicit logical path to play it. OP is not wrong, it's just that in its current state, this game is not accessible for players who just like to enjoy the ride without having to spend as much time to look for informations than you spend time playing the game. It's even more difficult for kids to enjoy it. @pook-pook you should give it another try after that revamp because warframe is a realy great experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pook-pook Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) I wish I could lock a post from further replies. The responses here, varying from completely lacking in empathy, to pointing out how much better at video games you are, to huge assumptions (I'm not a new player, I've been playing practically every day for almost two years, I watch all the devstreams avidly, I think I do a pretty good job of parenting) are so depressing. I was trying to give feedback to DE (the purpose of this forum) but y'all don't seem to think that's worth it. Thanks for the folks with the positive, helpful responses. Edited May 12, 2019 by pook-pook 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohforf3 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 It was rather idiotic to put PoE in the main path through Earth so newbies would have to go in and get their butts handed to them. It should have been put as an offshoot of the boss fight at least. OV is slightly better located as a side branch but the intro quest is stupid hard for newbies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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