Feedback on future "wolves" (please don't nerf them into the ground)

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

42 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I'd recommend not bothering with guz when it comes to the Wolf, in their mind it is ALWAYS the player's fault no matter how stupidly designed the Wolf is and people are just wrong for not bringing a Catchmoon or Rubico Prime on every mission in case he shows up.

Despite the fact that people have been affinity farming in relative peace until now but all of the sudden in guz's mind DE is taking a stand against people powerleveling their weapons in an efficient manner on Hydron because "that's not how the game should be played" or whatever the reason is.

Its absolutely useless to argue about the Wolf with them.

No surprises that you feel that way. The whole "this is the only place to farm (read "leech") affinity" is demonstrably false. Sanctuary is demonstrably better for levelling gear, and guess who has a 0% spawn rate there. 🙄

But ohhhh nooooo, apparently "that's not how the game should be played" or whatever the reason is. 

BTW, you still seem to think that you need one of two weapons to deal with the Wolf. Because you probably think that those are the only ways. Because you managed to fail to read any of the myriad posts advising other ways, in any of the myriad threads you've been spilling those crocodile tears. 

 

And yeah. If I am having trouble beating an enemy but others are taking it out in under a minute, that tells me that the enemy is not poorly designed, I'm just poorly equipped.

You can pretend that the grapes are sour from now until Kingdom come, but many people were able to reach them without any problem and disagree with you. So the question is, do we believe the people who were successful, or the person lamenting their failures? 

 

7 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I would simply make the boss susceptible to status effects but not allow him to be directly CC'd. He can have damage reduction on those statuses all he wants, I don't care. Just allow me to hit him with status effects.

No significant objections to this, but in return I'd say buff him a bit. Because many of the weapons that were effective would also have had a chance to deliver status effects. In some of those cases I'd expect him to just dissolve even with your proposed 1/2 x 1/2 reduction. 

Whenever I ran into him on hydron in a group, it took some effort to take him down if nobody else was able to do significant damage. When I ran into him and 3 of the team were equipped to take him on, he died really fast. 

[Chipputer]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No significant objections to this, but in return I'd say buff him a bit. Because many of the weapons that were effective would also have had a chance to deliver status effects. In some of those cases I'd expect him to just dissolve even with your proposed 1/2 x 1/2 reduction. 

Whenever I ran into him on hydron in a group, it took some effort to take him down if nobody else was able to do significant damage. When I ran into him and 3 of the team were equipped to take him on, he died really fast. 

Yeah, when I was prepared, solo, I would end up taking him out within 7 shots of my Catchmoon. If I wasn't, I'd have to drop my rad/crit Imperator Vandal and it would take about 1000 to 1200 shots from that, which really isn't much considering it's a boss.

I have no, significant, objections to buffing him so he lasts against the stuff we can do. I just want more equipment to be viable so that people aren't feeling so stuck in carrying a very specific set of weaponry just in case RNG blesses them with a visit from whatever the Season 2 boss is.

[DatDarkOne]

I think it's funny how most are upset because Wolf broke most of the common meta that is being used.  

The only problem I have ever really seen while fighting the random spawning Wolf while in groups were the invulnerable Fugitives with their massive damage fire weapons.  But if you have a frame like Garuda who can Blood Altar them(CC), Wolf becomes much easier for the group to handle.  

Since I prefer soloing with Ivara most of the time, the random Wolf encounter is rarely an issue regardless of the weapons I have with me.  Same for when I use Titania or Garuda when in groups.  Interesting isn't it.  

That said, Wolf could be buffed, nerfed, or have status effect him and it wouldn't upset me at all.  Although, I leaning more on the buffed or staying the same side of things.  😁 

Edited May 14, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

21 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I think it's funny how most are upset because Wolf broke most of the common meta that is being used.  

The leech meta? 

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

23 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Wolf broke most of the common meta that is being used.

Crit rad meta is still *very* much a thing, and expanded.

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Crit rad meta is still *very* much a thing, and expanded.

I did say most of the COMMON meta.  Specifically the corrosive spin2win one.  LOL

Edited May 15, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Basalto]

On 2019-05-14 at 11:05 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

How is taking a single option to deal with this enemy "crippling" yourself?

You refuse to take any one of a wide range of weapons, that would help you, and would also allow you to deal with other enemies? No problem, that's on you. 

But the instant he shows up and you find yourself up a creek with no paddle, you turn around and cry about how bad the situation is? Yeah no, that's on you. 

Remember saying 'I have a problem with this' doesn't mean that there's actually a problem, especially when the context of your post makes it clear that what you're actually saying is 'I have created a problem for myself, fix it'. 

Believe it or not, not everyone in this game dislikes making use of its features, such as the three weapon slots that allow the player to, surprise surprise, carry three different weapons. I often combo my Soma Prime with my Nikana Prime, which has Condition Overload, so I can stack slash and heat on heavy units and then finish them off with a melee weapon that already has a considerable boost, instead of needing to hit the enemy first to stack procs. Did I also mention adding toxic lash on top of it to add toxin to the middle of things? Yeah, it's called playing the game. By this time you're probably saying "I don't care because I'm always right" or some entitled thing, so I'll add that my Soma does not have punch through or reload speed to accomodate the build I made for it. That means I have to carry a weapon for lines of enemies, or simply combating running out of ammo on the Soma. Again, the game gives the player three slots, and I like using them. I don't carry a sniper rifle with a single-shot secondary, or a pocket shotgun with a primary shotgun. I balance my loadouts in a way that I won't get caught with my pants down in the middle of things as much as humanly possible. I prepare for my mission, not for the RNG of a bulletsponge enemy and his three invincible allies.

"Oh, but you should stop making intelligent loadouts because I said so." No, thanks.

"Oh, but if you don't want to cripple your loadout's variety to fight an enemy that will spawn by pure chance, then you're at fault." Yeah, sorry for wanting to play the game, I'll keep making that mistake as much as I want, since you have no clue what you're talking about and are just insisting on nonsensical apologism of a part of the game that needed to be nerfed.

DE created a problem by introducing the Wolf as a bulletsponge, and those who create the problem should be the ones fixing it. Remember, players don't develop a game, the developers do. I know it's hard to process this amount of information while firmly believing any inch of what you're saying is remotely right, but I politely ask you to try.

 

On 2019-05-14 at 11:05 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh you mean the invincible allies that you can bypass, lead him away from, and simply ignore much of the time? Or the invincible allies that you can totally cc because they're affected by our warframe abilities? 

It's high time that people start learning to use the considerable resources the game gives us to adapt to the challenges they face, instead of demanding that they be allowed to win at all times. 

Wrong. The allies used nearly heat-seeking fire DoT with a massive impact damage. I also tried pushing them away from Wolf before your megamind decided to suggest such a wonderful thing, and it does not work. His allies ignored me in favor of rejoining him, so I had to keep Void dashing them into a corner every second and a half. Now think about what you're saying a little bit. Yeah, they can be CCed, but this game's meta killed CC and DPS is what people use. Why is that worth mentioning? Because people run what's effective for the mission, not what's going to help against an enemy that might or might not spawn. You know what's also worth mentioning? The sad state the game finds itself in when, only by introducing literally unkillable enemies, can CC go back to being somewhat relevant. Anyway, you're wrong and delusional. Have a nice day.

 

*: Actually...

On 2019-05-13 at 12:48 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

In that situation, newbs like me would have just gone around him, the exact same way we did with the Syndicate squads. Why didn't you try that, if you knew that you were poorly set up for taking him down? 

Wolf locked my syndicate interception mission with his appearance. Have any other suggestion that doesn't work?

Edited May 16, 2019 by Basalto

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Basalto said:

Believe it or not, not everyone in this game dislikes making use of its features, such as the three weapon slots that allow the player to, surprise surprise, carry three different weapons.

And so you are saying that in those three (more really) you're unable to find room for one rad crit weapon? Then surprise surprise, it's no surprise at all that you would have a difficult time dealing with the wolf. 

One way to deal with the wolf is all that was needed. Just one. It could be primary, secondary, melee, archgun or exalted. 

1 hour ago, Basalto said:

 I often combo my Soma Prime with my Nikana Prime, which has Condition Overload, so I can stack slash and heat on heavy units and then finish them off with a melee weapon that already has a considerable boost, instead of needing to hit the enemy first to stack procs. Did I also mention adding toxic lash on top of it to add toxin to the middle of things? Yeah, it's called playing the game. By this time you're probably saying "I don't care because I'm always right" or some entitled thing, so I'll add that my Soma does not have punch through or reload speed to accomodate the build I made for it. That means I have to carry a weapon for lines of enemies, or simply combating running out of ammo on the Soma. Again, the game gives the player three slots, and I like using them. I don't carry a sniper rifle with a single-shot secondary, or a pocket shotgun with a primary shotgun. 

Yeah, I don't know what game you have been playing. I play warframe, where I'm expected to be able to adapt as needed. That ability is what lead me to take one rad crit option that, surprise surprise, was able to deal with the enemies I faced. I didn't carry a sniper rifle, or a single shot secondary, I didn't even always carry a pocket shotgun as I have melee and exalted weapons that can help me to do the deed. Adapting to whatever we may face, that's called "playing the game". Whining about not being able to trivialize the content when unprepared, not so much. 

1 hour ago, Basalto said:

I prepare for my mission, not for the RNG of a bulletsponge enemy and his three invincible allies.

"Oh, but you should stop making intelligent loadouts because I said so." No, thanks.

 

Yeah, how intelligent was it when you were forced to bail, or spend the better part of an hour begging him to die because you couldn't get the job done, because, surprise surprise, you didn't prepare for what you ended up facing in your mission. 

Quote

 

1 hour ago, Basalto said:

"Oh, but if you don't want to cripple your loadout's variety to fight an enemy that will spawn by pure chance, then you're at fault." Yeah, sorry for wanting to play the game, I'll keep making that mistake as much as I want, since you have no clue what you're talking about and are just insisting on nonsensical apologism of a part of the game that needed to be nerfed.

If the wolf could have been killed by epeen alone, many people would have had no problem defeating him. If crocodile tears drowned him, you guys would have taken him out the instant he spawned. If false senses of entitlement would hurt him, then he would have stood no chance at all. Turns out that none of those strategies work well in Warframe, and taking, at least one way to deal significant damage was a better option. 

1 hour ago, Basalto said:

DE created a problem by introducing the Wolf as a bulletsponge, and those who create the problem should be the ones fixing it. Remember, players don't develop a game, the developers do. I know it's hard to process this amount of information while firmly believing any inch of what you're saying is remotely right, but I politely ask you to try.

Did they? Weird. Quite a few people seem to not have had a problem even when they were the only one pulling the weight on a high level map. They adapted, instead of trying to blame their failures on other people. I know that's hard to process, but it really is right so I ask you to try. 

 

1 hour ago, Basalto said:

Wrong. The allies used nearly heat-seeking fire DoT with a massive impact damage. I also tried pushing them away from Wolf before your megamind decided to suggest such a wonderful thing, and it does not work. His allies ignored me in favor of rejoining him, so I had to keep Void dashing them into a corner every second and a half. Now think about what you're saying a little bit. Yeah, they can be CCed, but this game's meta killed CC and DPS is what people use. Why is that worth mentioning? Because people run what's effective for the mission, not what's going to help against an enemy that might or might not spawn. You know what's also worth mentioning? The sad state the game finds itself in when, only by introducing literally unkillable enemies, can CC go back to being somewhat relevant. Anyway, you're wrong and delusional. Have a nice day.

 

*: Actually...

Still not wrong. In non-defence missions it was entirely possible to just run for it and let him follow. Not "push them away with my immense pushing away skills which, surprise surprise, weren't as great as I thought ", not "take a few steps away to deal with the wolf in the next room and hope that they forget about our existence". 

Now, think a little more about what I said. It doesn't take a megamind to figure it out. Just like how thinking about it would have told you that every single time people encountered the wolf in a random mission, was a clear indication of why being prepared to meet him would have been a great idea. Or how every single time a player effectively uses cc, puts your 'they killed cc so I don't use it' into perspective. 

2 hours ago, Basalto said:

Wolf locked my syndicate interception mission with his appearance. Have any other suggestion that doesn't work?

I have two that do, 1) learn to read what was written and not assume that whatever runs through your head is what was written, and 2) learn how to play Warframe instead of whatever you been doing all this time. 

[YUNoJump]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And so you are saying that in those three (more really) you're unable to find room for one rad crit weapon? Then surprise surprise, it's no surprise at all that you would have a difficult time dealing with the wolf. 

One way to deal with the wolf is all that was needed. Just one. It could be primary, secondary, melee, archgun or exalted. 

Warframe has had 3 main weapon slots for years before the Wolf was added, how is restricting one slot to Wolf weapons in almost every single mission not a loss of variety? Even if you personally don't mind only ever having 2 effective weapon slots, it's a bit dishonest to claim that it's objectively not a problem for everyone to do the same thing. Even just in the case of wanting to gain experience in every weapon slot it's a problem, I'm missing out on potential Shared Affinity by always equipping a max-rank gun. 

Yes I could use the Wolf weapon as my main gun, but then I'll be using the exact same weapon (or small set of weapons) for an incredibly long period of time, and that's just boring. I like to change weapons every few missions and I'm sure lots of other people do too. In fact, even setting up an Archgun for the Wolf is a loss of variety, I might want to level up an Archgun that isn't built entirely for Radiation DPS, or feel cool summoning a big gun against anything other than an angry pile of bricks and his 3 invincible friends.

Sure it might not be a massive chore for some people to equip a permanent Wolf gun, but it's objectively less variety than we had previously, with the payoff being the meagre prize of being able to complete an unfun fight within 5 minutes. Warframe thrives on variety and dismissing that part of the game because you personally don't mind always adhering to the meta doesn't work as an argument. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

Warframe has had 3 main weapon slots for years before the Wolf was added, how is restricting one slot to Wolf weapons in almost every single mission not a loss of variety? Even if you personally don't mind only ever having 2 effective weapon slots, it's a bit dishonest to claim that it's objectively not a problem for everyone to do the same thing. Even just in the case of wanting to gain experience in every weapon slot it's a problem, I'm missing out on potential Shared Affinity by always equipping a max-rank gun. 

Yes I could use the Wolf weapon as my main gun, but then I'll be using the exact same weapon (or small set of weapons) for an incredibly long period of time, and that's just boring. I like to change weapons every few missions and I'm sure lots of other people do too. In fact, even setting up an Archgun for the Wolf is a loss of variety, I might want to level up an Archgun that isn't built entirely for Radiation DPS, or feel cool summoning a big gun against anything other than an angry pile of bricks and his 3 invincible friends.

Sure it might not be a massive chore for some people to equip a permanent Wolf gun, but it's objectively less variety than we had previously, with the payoff being the meagre prize of being able to complete an unfun fight within 5 minutes. Warframe thrives on variety and dismissing that part of the game because you personally don't mind always adhering to the meta doesn't work as an argument. 

We now have a possible 4, and in several cases more than that. And that is not counting the operator/amp. 

Granted these have not existed for "years" and people stuck in their outdated playstyle, blindly adhering to their meta that doesn't apply to the wolf, will have difficulty until they learn to adapt. 

Now let me repeat this, nobody was restricted to any given weapon. There are primary weapons, secondary, melee, archguns and exalted weapons that work to take the wolf out. You were always able to switch up which weapons you took, and I did, and managed to always have one good option for taking down the wolf ready to go. 

Seeing as what people are moaning about is having to give up one damage type meta for another damage type meta (that is perfectly capable of eliminating enemies across the entire starchart), I genuinely don't see this as a loss of variety, but more along the lines of a resistance to adapt to the challenges facing us. 

We all saw the same 6% chance, and the armour and health types. Some people decided to prepare for the Wolf and we didn't have a particularly difficult time. Others decided to not adapt and obviously did have a difficult time. A number of those people then changed how they were playing and no longer had as much difficulty dealing with the Wolf. Some refused to change and instead try to blame the difficulties they face on others. Their argument is to insist that the game must cater to them at all times. Mine is that they can choose to adapt or refuse to, but the consequences are on their own heads. 

 

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-05-14 at 8:48 PM, DatDarkOne said:

I think it's funny how most are upset because Wolf broke most of the common meta that is being used.  

Wolf broke no meta. He simply enforced a meto of his own. That's what people are upset about.

[YUNoJump]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

We now have a possible 4, and in several cases more than that. And that is not counting the operator/amp. 

Granted these have not existed for "years" and people stuck in their outdated playstyle, blindly adhering to their meta that doesn't apply to the wolf, will have difficulty until they learn to adapt. 

More slots have been added, but if they are added for their own purposes and then it becomes necessary to lock them to something specific then that's still removing options. If there was a "Wolf gun" slot that was designed for that then it'd be fine, but every current weapon slot in the game is designed for general mission use, not specific occurrences.

A meta is building around a specific thing, therefore bringing a weapon specifically for the Wolf is it's own meta, even if you're not using every slot. It's not a given that you are using a meta build just because you don't have a Wolf gun. 

39 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Now let me repeat this, nobody was restricted to any given weapon. There are primary weapons, secondary, melee, archguns and exalted weapons that work to take the wolf out. You were always able to switch up which weapons you took, and I did, and managed to always have one good option for taking down the wolf ready to go. 

Sure there are some options, but in the end it always has to be a high-tier crit-based Radiation weapon, presumably at max rank, maybe with Shattering Impact on a melee. That narrows down a huge number of options. Having to equip one of those options is still a massive drop from being able to equip any weapon you want at any rank. Additionally, if you're gonna commit a slot to the Wolf there's not much point in using anything other than the absolute best gun you have, because most people don't find the Wolf fight fun at all and just want it over with when he spawns. Overall, regardless of what you equip there, it'd be better if you could equip more, especially stuff that isn't at max rank. It's a restriction, and restrictions aren't good when the return isn't that great.

39 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Seeing as what people are moaning about is having to give up one damage type meta for another damage type meta (that is perfectly capable of eliminating enemies across the entire starchart), I genuinely don't see this as a loss of variety, but more along the lines of a resistance to adapt to the challenges facing us. 

It's not just a damage type meta because not only is he immune to any CC at all, he's completely immune to Status effects, which are currently a major part of the game. Half of the best stuff in the game is Status-based. He ignores too many features of the game for building around him to be fun or in-depth, currently it's crit-radiation or bust. Any weapon that can't do that is worthless against him.

39 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

We all saw the same 6% chance, and the armour and health types. Some people decided to prepare for the Wolf and we didn't have a particularly difficult time. Others decided to not adapt and obviously did have a difficult time. A number of those people then changed how they were playing and no longer had as much difficulty dealing with the Wolf. Some refused to change and instead try to blame the difficulties they face on others. Their argument is to insist that the game must cater to them at all times. Mine is that they can choose to adapt or refuse to, but the consequences are on their own heads. 

People didn't do it because they wanted to have fun. Building specifically for the Wolf doesn't make the game more fun, it reduces the amount of fun that is lost when the Wolf appears at all, because no matter what he is simply not a fun fight. Despite his massive health pool he has about three moves, and none of them are really that threatening. His invincible allies are a terrible attempt to make him harder which doesn't add anything to the fight other than the threat of death by instant immolation at any time. 

When something is unfun in a videogame, it's something that the devs can fix to be more fun, because that's what videogames are for. There's a difference between engaging challenge and just putting a pile of big numbers in front of you, and that's why people are complaining rather than trying to avoid the problems it causes.

I could be more sympathetic to the idea that you should prepare for the Wolf, but when doing so requires boring, unchanging builds, and the reward for preparation is just saving time in a terrible fight that is more likely than not to give no rewards worth considering, then I can't support the idea of trying to ignore the problem. If being prepared resulted in a fun fight then i'd do it, but currently I'd rather just let the Wolf kill me as soon as he appears and enjoy myself with a loadout that I haven't had to compromise on

[Guest]

I gotta say, since I got all of Wolf's drops, it is really annoying to have to whale away at him with my Destreza P until a 3x multiplier, after which he just dies. It doesn't really take very long but it feels dumb and pointless since I don't really need anything from Wolf at this point.

They might as well keep him the same but just give him a boss node and remove him from the assassin roster.

[--DSP--Jetstream]

When it spawn in marduk its really annoying since tons of hp and able to onehit you easily, so do we have to play chroma/inaros and bring wolf specific gear every mission now since its very very specific gear only that can kill it without taking ages to shoot at it. Just giving something a million hp and a million damage is just lazy design, and whats with the one hit move wolf had? it doesnt have a visible animation when he do that just some spinning thing that appear near him in instand that no way you can dodge, meanwhile his hammer slam has proper animation where you can dodge and see it coming.

tldr wolf is bad design

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

On 2019-05-15 at 12:14 PM, DatDarkOne said:

I did say most of the COMMON meta.  Specifically the corrosive spin2win one.  LOL

Rad crit is the meta for most bosses in the game.  Guess what we're supposed to use on the newest one?

Corrosive, slash, rad and crit are all meta.  This just makes one of em more so.  Now if he were weak to blast or some other dumb crap, *that* would change the meta.

Edited May 17, 2019 by (PS4)BenHeisennberg

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

19 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

More slots have been added, but if they are added for their own purposes and then it becomes necessary to lock them to something specific then that's still removing options. If there was a "Wolf gun" slot that was designed for that then it'd be fine, but every current weapon slot in the game is designed for general mission use, not specific occurrences.

The purpose of weapon slots is to allow us to take the weapons we intend to use to deal with what we face in the game. 

Since the wolf is something that we faced with RNG determined appearances in our missions 6% of the time, it was a great idea to have something that could deal with him during his appearances. Some people chose not to use the weapon slots to do that. Care to guess how they fared? 

 

19 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

A meta is building around a specific thing, therefore bringing a weapon specifically for the Wolf is it's own meta, even if you're not using every slot. It's not a given that you are using a meta build just because you don't have a Wolf gun. 

Yes most of the people in the game usually build around a slash and corrosive proc, as it tends to be effective against a large number of enemies. This leads to restrictions in the gear we see, and eliminates many weapons. The wolf is strong against that meta, but rad damage is also highly effective. 

Take a close look at the amount of Arca Plasmors used in regular content. There's a reason it's riven disposition has dropped twice in a row. It's damage type is already one of the metas in the game for normal content. Even those would have been a better choice for dealing with the wolf than the "omgwtfbbq" non radiation weapons we see being foisted in the "I only use this because its good at killing, so you need to make him killable by this" arguments. 

19 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

Sure there are some options, but in the end it always has to be a high-tier crit-based Radiation weapon, presumably at max rank, maybe with Shattering Impact on a melee. That narrows down a huge number of options. Having to equip one of those options is still a massive drop from being able to equip any weapon you want at any rank. Additionally, if you're gonna commit a slot to the Wolf there's not much point in using anything other than the absolute best gun you have, because most people don't find the Wolf fight fun at all and just want it over with when he spawns. Overall, regardless of what you equip there, it'd be better if you could equip more, especially stuff that isn't at max rank. It's a restriction, and restrictions aren't good when the return isn't that great.

First part is a ridiculous argument. "Any weapon at any rank" shouldn't be an option for "any content". We are all aware that properly forma'd weapons are more powerful than unforma'd, and that some weapons always deal more damage than others, and that certain enemies take more damage from certain damage types. So, no. You won't have much success claiming that "we should be able to use any weapon at all at any rank at all". Warframe does not, and apparently never did work like that. 

It was always a case of "use a good weapon, dealing the right damage type, in the right amounts". Over time the power creep lead to a situation where we forgot that were not actually immortal, death dealing gods. The wolf reminded us of that and some people just lost their minds. 

To the second, we don't have to commit any slot to dealing with the wolf. We can commit a single slot of our choice to a damage type that deals with the vast majority of the enemies we face and also the wolf. Which part of that is the problem? Which part of it is what you oppose? The fact that it can easily deal with the vast majority of the enemies we are likely to face, or that it also deals damage to the wolf? 

19 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

It's not just a damage type meta because not only is he immune to any CC at all, he's completely immune to Status effects, which are currently a major part of the game. Half of the best stuff in the game is Status-based. He ignores too many features of the game for building around him to be fun or in-depth, currently it's crit-radiation or bust. Any weapon that can't do that is worthless against him.

Oh? So cc is "useless", and I suppose that's why people chose not to take it, only to realise that they chose not to be able to cc the fugitives, which then proceeded to kill the heck out of them? Personally I stomped and they stopped doing stuff that I didn't want them to do. Neat huh? 

(For a large part of the event I did not realise that they were even capable of attacking as I'd use the stomp to keep them in one spot.) 

But yeah, that tells me that the people who came up with the arguments you're parroting are misguided, at best. 

And you know what is an even bigger part of the game than status effects or cc? Making sure that we can deal appropriately with what we face. What's the point of being given the options if you are going to refuse to use some of them when they are going to work well in the situation, just because some YouTuber told you "this combination is really good" months ago, before we faced the new enemy? 

Let's reverse the situation. If we faced an enemy where crits don't apply and status effects are best, (max damage is gated,) and I refused to take anything that deals significant status effects and insisted on only taking rad crit weapons, you'd think me an idiot, wouldn't you? And you would be right. So why is it different when we face the wolf? 

19 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

People didn't do it because they wanted to have fun.

Let's stop this right away. I had fun, and I killed the wolf repeatedly, his appearances broke the tedium of levelling junk on Hydron, I was able to stomach a lot more runs there than I normally can. Others didn't bother to prepare to face the wolf, and so had a hard time dealing with him; they did not have fun, quite understandably. That's their fault. 

So all you are really doing for the next two paragraphs is pretending that a subjective view is a fact. You can't dictate what fun is, or what people find fun, so don't make statements saying "this is not fun".

Losing badly to an enemy that is not difficult to defeat, as the result of their choice to be unprepared, that's something that many people probably agree isn't fun. But that's actually what you are advocating for. Well that and the devs making it so that they people who make poor choices be allowed to win all the time. 

19 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

I could be more sympathetic to the idea that you should prepare for the Wolf, but when doing so requires boring, unchanging builds, and the reward for preparation is just saving time in a terrible fight that is more likely than not to give no rewards worth considering, then I can't support the idea of trying to ignore the problem. If being prepared resulted in a fun fight then i'd do it, but currently I'd rather just let the Wolf kill me as soon as he appears and enjoy myself with a loadout that I haven't had to compromise on

WTF are you talking about, "boring unchanging builds"? I was able to level dozens of weapons. My builds were in constant flux, in my case I had mainly primary and melee weapons to rank up, but I got at least one secondary weapon done as well. At no point was I restricted to an unchanging build.

If anything that's what people who are complaining about the wolf had, unchanging builds that they refused to alter to face the Wolf. 

Dude if you are going to present arguments, at the very least, make sure that they are valid. Throughout the event people kept pointing out the different ways that they'd killed the wolf. Yes most (but not all) shared "rad crit damage", but that's literally as far as the similarities went. If you couldn't find any options to switch up your build, that's purely on your end, not the game. 

[DatDarkOne]

7 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Rad crit is the meta for most bosses in the game.  Guess what we're supposed to use on the newest one?

If you really need a meta for the bosses in the Starchart, then something might be wrong.  I mean you can pretty much kill all the Bosses in the Starchart using anything.  Just saying.  😄

 

[YUNoJump]

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The purpose of weapon slots is to allow us to take the weapons we intend to use to deal with what we face in the game. 

Since the wolf is something that we faced with RNG determined appearances in our missions 6% of the time, it was a great idea to have something that could deal with him during his appearances. Some people chose not to use the weapon slots to do that. Care to guess how they fared? 

6% is hardly frequent, and if I run the expected number of missions before the Wolf spawns, I will have spent most of that time with a gun I'm not interested in using. Here we have a scenario where you're sacrificing variety in ~18 missions just so that on the 19th you don't get shafted. Sacrificing up to a quarter of your potential slots to such a meagre outcome isn't fun, it's exerting hardship on yourself and believing that it's necessary, despite the fact that this is a videogame where fun is the main goal and everything can be changed.

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yes most of the people in the game usually build around a slash and corrosive proc, as it tends to be effective against a large number of enemies. This leads to restrictions in the gear we see, and eliminates many weapons. The wolf is strong against that meta, but rad damage is also highly effective. 

Take a close look at the amount of Arca Plasmors used in regular content. There's a reason it's riven disposition has dropped twice in a row. It's damage type is already one of the metas in the game for normal content. Even those would have been a better choice for dealing with the wolf than the "omgwtfbbq" non radiation weapons we see being foisted in the "I only use this because its good at killing, so you need to make him killable by this" arguments. 

That's not the point, even if the Arca Plasmor is simultaneously popular and good at killing Wolf, it doesn't change the fact that people may want to use something other than that one gun for the several weeks that Wolf is active. No matter how good a gun is, if it's not fun it's probably not worth it, and using the exact same thing for weeks at a time isn't fun. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

First part is a ridiculous argument. "Any weapon at any rank" shouldn't be an option for "any content". We are all aware that properly forma'd weapons are more powerful than unforma'd, and that some weapons always deal more damage than others, and that certain enemies take more damage from certain damage types. So, no. You won't have much success claiming that "we should be able to use any weapon at all at any rank at all". Warframe does not, and apparently never did work like that. 

It was always a case of "use a good weapon, dealing the right damage type, in the right amounts". Over time the power creep lead to a situation where we forgot that were not actually immortal, death dealing gods. The wolf reminded us of that and some people just lost their minds. 

To the second, we don't have to commit any slot to dealing with the wolf. We can commit a single slot of our choice to a damage type that deals with the vast majority of the enemies we face and also the wolf. Which part of that is the problem? Which part of it is what you oppose? The fact that it can easily deal with the vast majority of the enemies we are likely to face, or that it also deals damage to the wolf? 

I am by no means saying that you shouldn't need a max rank gun to do high-level content. Any Wolf gun probably has to be max-rank, and that means that I can't use that slot for shared affinity, something that the vast majority of players do when they don't need every weapon to be good at once.

I could use the maxed gun for the Wolf AND for the high-level content, but that just comes back around to my point that I don't want to be using the same (or same small set) of guns for all of my missions over several weeks. As I've said, "good" and "good at the Wolf" aren't the same category, because Wolf is immune to Status and is only worth using Radiation on. If I want to use a gun that is "good" and have it also be my Wolf gun, I have to remove every single non-crit based gun from my choice. I then have to think about the fact that Radiation is terrible against most things other than Armor and the Wolf's magic metal healthbar, so anything that can't do other damage to a decent degree isn't worth it at high-level either. My Arca Plasmor can destroy most things, but if it has nothing but Radiation on it it can be quite annoying to kill stuff like Ancients or Techs.

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh? So cc is "useless", and I suppose that's why people chose not to take it, only to realise that they chose not to be able to cc the fugitives, which then proceeded to kill the heck out of them? Personally I stomped and they stopped doing stuff that I didn't want them to do. Neat huh? 

(For a large part of the event I did not realise that they were even capable of attacking as I'd use the stomp to keep them in one spot.) 

But yeah, that tells me that the people who came up with the arguments you're parroting are misguided, at best. 

And you know what is an even bigger part of the game than status effects or cc? Making sure that we can deal appropriately with what we face. What's the point of being given the options if you are going to refuse to use some of them when they are going to work well in the situation, just because some YouTuber told you "this combination is really good" months ago, before we faced the new enemy? 

The current agreement among the community is that CC frames aren't as good as damage frames, because why bother slowing an enemy down when you can kill them immediately. If you're saying that I should bring a less-effective CC build to all my missions just so that once every ~18 missions I can stop 3 mooks from moving, then I'm gonna laugh. I could bring some other build with a bunch of mods dedicated to making the CC good, but then I'm not only sacrificing choice in a slot, I'm sacrificing choice in my entire ability set. I don't want to be forced to play a frame with CC every mission, same argument as before.

Just saying "we need to deal with what we face" is a stupid argument when we're talking about a videogame. If dealing with the scenario isn't fun then why the hell shouldn't I complain? it's not like Warframe is some rigidly designed thing that will never change. If people aren't having fun fighting the Wolf then they absolutely should ask DE to make him more fun. Hell, people aren't having fun fighting him even when they do prepare. 

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Let's reverse the situation. If we faced an enemy where crits don't apply and status effects are best, (max damage is gated,) and I refused to take anything that deals significant status effects and insisted on only taking rad crit weapons, you'd think me an idiot, wouldn't you? And you would be right. So why is it different when we face the wolf? 

That's entirely not my point. I'm not saying that build rad-crit is the problem, I'm saying being forced to build for one specific thing that only uses half of the game's features is a problem. If there was an enemy that crits don't apply to then it'd be exactly as dumb as the Wolf's immunity. Anything that forces you to ignore core aspects of the game by just being outright immune to them isn't good design, and the Wolf being immune to Status doesn't improve fighting him at all.

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Let's stop this right away. I had fun, and I killed the wolf repeatedly, his appearances broke the tedium of levelling junk on Hydron, I was able to stomach a lot more runs there than I normally can. Others didn't bother to prepare to face the wolf, and so had a hard time dealing with him; they did not have fun, quite understandably. That's their fault. 

So all you are really doing for the next two paragraphs is pretending that a subjective view is a fact. You can't dictate what fun is, or what people find fun, so don't make statements saying "this is not fun".

Losing badly to an enemy that is not difficult to defeat, as the result of their choice to be unprepared, that's something that many people probably agree isn't fun. But that's actually what you are advocating for. Well that and the devs making it so that they people who make poor choices be allowed to win all the time. 

Sure you did, but I think it's easy to tell amongst all the people saying he needs to be more fun that a great deal of the playerbase ISN'T having fun. Going off your own experiences and nobody else's isn't a great strategy when you're talking about changes to an entire game with millions of players.

Yes it's "subjective", but objectivity doesn't exist when we're talking about something like "fun". If people aren't having fun then they aren't having fun, and telling them that they need to do exactly what you want them to do isn't going to make it more fun. I'm basing my argument that the Wolf "isn't fun" on the countless threads and commenters discussing how much of a slog it is to farm him. I don't mean that he objectively isn't fun as determined by the laws of nature, I mean that he isn't fun as a generalisation.

You do have a point that people like you find him fun, but the fact that people are disagreeing over how fun he is means that we could probably find a safe middle ground where everyone can say "yeah the Wolf is alright" together.

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

WTF are you talking about, "boring unchanging builds"? I was able to level dozens of weapons. My builds were in constant flux, in my case I had mainly primary and melee weapons to rank up, but I got at least one secondary weapon done as well. At no point was I restricted to an unchanging build.

If anything that's what people who are complaining about the wolf had, unchanging builds that they refused to alter to face the Wolf. 

I'm not talking about entire loadouts, I'm talking about builds on the single weapon that you would use for the Wolf. Radiation and crit means that you don't get to think about any other combination when you're choosing weapons. You slap on as much damage as you can and then that weapon doesn't change for the rest of the event. The weapon probably has to be max rank as well, ensuring that you don't really get much out of using it other than the ability to beat Wolf quicker. You could waste tonnes of time repeatedly making rad+crit builds for every viable weapon you have, but then you're still restricting yourself to those weapons instead of doing what's most fun. Besides that, if you don't like the Wolf fight, there wouldn't be much reason to bring anything other than your best gun.

People who aren't preparing aren't using unchanging builds, they're using literally anything other than rad+crit, and changing it whenever they want. What you say makes no sense here.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

I'm not talking about entire loadouts, I'm talking about builds on the single weapon that you would use for the Wolf. Radiation and crit means that you don't get to think about any other combination when you're choosing weapons. You slap on as much damage as you can and then that weapon doesn't change for the rest of the event. The weapon probably has to be max rank as well, ensuring that you don't really get much out of using it other than the ability to beat Wolf quicker. You could waste tonnes of time repeatedly making rad+crit builds for every viable weapon you have, but then you're still restricting yourself to those weapons instead of doing what's most fun. Besides that, if you don't like the Wolf fight, there wouldn't be much reason to bring anything other than your best gun.

Let's deal with this one out of order, shall we? 

"The weapon has to be max ranked so I cannot leech-level it" is a ridiculous argument. It's ridiculous that you think that unranked weapons should be an option for dealing with high level content in the first place, and ridiculous because you are attempting to pretend that focus isn't a thing for most people in the game. So that nonsense is clearly not a valid point on your part. 

The "you could make viable builds for every viable weapon in your arsenal, but then you would still be restricted to only those" is patent nonsense. Take one viable high rad damage option and do whatever the heck you want with the 2, 3, 4 or even 5 other weapon slots available to you. 

The "you have to bring your best gun to hunt the wolf" is again a load of rubbish. You don't need to carry the best option, just any of the good ones. 

For someone who claims to like variety, you sure don't sound like it from the arguments you make. 

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

6% is hardly frequent, and if I run the expected number of missions before the Wolf spawns, I will have spent most of that time with a gun I'm not interested in using. Here we have a scenario where you're sacrificing variety in ~18 missions just so that on the 19th you don't get shafted. Sacrificing up to a quarter of your potential slots to such a meagre outcome isn't fun, it's exerting hardship on yourself and believing that it's necessary, despite the fact that this is a videogame where fun is the main goal and everything can be changed.

Again, given the fact that we have multiple options available to us, then it's on you to find weapons (pay close attention to the placement of that 's" that implies that there are more than one option) that will work for you. 

Someone claiming "I have no interest in using a gun like the gram prime, or Titania/Valkyr's exalted weapons, or even Garuda" would sound ridiculous for obvious reasons, and yet that's what you're essentially doing by trying to be myopic and pigeonhole the choices. You should stop doing that. 

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

That's not the point, even if the Arca Plasmor is simultaneously popular and good at killing Wolf, it doesn't change the fact that people may want to use something other than that one gun for the several weeks that Wolf is active. No matter how good a gun is, if it's not fun it's probably not worth it, and using the exact same thing for weeks at a time isn't fun. 

It rather is the point. It shows that the damage type is highly viable for the majority of the starchart. As soon as one recognizes that point, it becomes possible to mod many weapons to deal that damage type. As soon as one recognizes that point the whole "but what if I don't want to use that one particular weapon all the time" becomes a total non-issue for anyone who actually has even a basic grasp of how Warframe is played. 

Again if you are unable to find any acceptable choices out of the myriad choices available to you, that's on your end, it's not a problem with the game. 

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

I am by no means saying that you shouldn't need a max rank gun to do high-level content. Any Wolf gun probably has to be max-rank, and that means that I can't use that slot for shared affinity, something that the vast majority of players do when they don't need every weapon to be good at once. 

Ahh yes the "but I can't apply my leech-level meta to fit another piece of MR fodder if I take a viable weapon in one slot". In that case I suggest you try archgun or exalted weapon, or, doing what I did and slapping a lens on the high crit radiation damage weapons you intend to take as your one viable weapon that would help you to complete the mission. 

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

I could use the maxed gun for the Wolf AND for the high-level content, but that just comes back around to my point that I don't want to be using the same (or same small set) of guns for all of my missions over several weeks. As I've said, "good" and "good at the Wolf" aren't the same category, because Wolf is immune to Status and is only worth using Radiation on. If I want to use a gun that is "good" and have it also be my Wolf gun, I have to remove every single non-crit based gun from my choice. I then have to think about the fact that Radiation is terrible against most things other than Armor and the Wolf's magic metal healthbar, so anything that can't do other damage to a decent degree isn't worth it at high-level either. My Arca Plasmor can destroy most things, but if it has nothing but Radiation on it it can be quite annoying to kill stuff like Ancients or Techs

Are you sure that you actually mix up your weapons? It sounds as though you don't really do that, because once again you seem to be insisting, in the face of all evidence, that you would only be able to find one single weapon suitable for the damage type. (And the whole 'if someone is going to take something then it makes sense to only take the best', line that was in the previous posts.) 

Regarding ancients, the majority seem to have died quite easily outside of the  Sortie we had the other day. But then dealing a very large amount of damage before resistances are applied, means that you are still dealing quite a lot of damage after the resistances are applied. 

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

The current agreement among the community is that CC frames aren't as good as damage frames, because why bother slowing an enemy down when you can kill them immediately. If you're saying that I should bring a less-effective CC build to all my missions just so that once every ~18 missions I can stop 3 mooks from moving, then I'm gonna laugh. I could bring some other build with a bunch of mods dedicated to making the CC good, but then I'm not only sacrificing choice in a slot, I'm sacrificing choice in my entire ability set. I don't want to be forced to play a frame with CC every mission, same argument as before.

Weird. My Rhino doubles as a nuker in the lower levels of Hydron, and works really well for creating breathing room at tg and higher levels. Nezha, Titania, Garuda all worked quite well. I saw a couple of Nyxes and Revenants but Nyx doesn't really have a lot of support in this game, and the revenants were both busy leveling, so not really the best gauge. 

Again, as before, it's on you to find things that work for you. 

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

Just saying "we need to deal with what we face" is a stupid argument when we're talking about a videogame. If dealing with the scenario isn't fun then why the hell shouldn't I complain? it's not like Warframe is some rigidly designed thing that will never change. If people aren't having fun fighting the Wolf then they absolutely should ask DE to make him more fun. Hell, people aren't having fun fighting him even when they do prepare. 

Weird, "dealing with whatever comes our way" seems to be the hallmark of the game. From different enemy types, with different resistance types, to bosses who shrug off status effects and warframe abilities, to random assassins showing up and trying to kill members of the team. 

Dunno what game you've been playing, but welcome to warframe, I guess?

Btw do you have any idea how many times people have claimed to be "prepared" for the wolf, shown the build they were using, and it's nothing like a good build? Then afterwards some were adamant that they weren't going to change anything anyway. It's almost as though the YouTubers didn't make a video about all the possible weapons and builds that would have been effective and a lot of people were left, unable to think for themselves. 

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

Sure you did, but I think it's easy to tell amongst all the people saying he needs to be more fun that a great deal of the playerbase ISN'T having fun. Going off your own experiences and nobody else's isn't a great strategy when you're talking about changes to an entire game with millions of players.

And I point out the title of the thread that you're responding to. There were people who actually wanted him buffed, you know. Btw, use the achievements pages, do the math. Of those millions the vast majority haven't managed to get very far. They're not the ones whining about being unable to deal with the wolf on Sedna, because many can't even deal with a single enemy on Sedna. If we use them as the default you need to nerf everything in the game and provide a "press any key to win" mechanic. 

 

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

Yes it's "subjective", but objectivity doesn't exist when we're talking about something like "fun".

Glad to hear that you agree with my reason for stopping that particular nonsense argument in the bud. You'll notice that I have done it again. 

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

People who aren't preparing aren't using unchanging builds, they're using literally anything other than rad+crit, and changing it whenever they want. What you say makes no sense here.

I am speaking based on the discussions that have gone on since the wolf became a topic of conversation. Like this one, where people are obviously refusing to consider taking any viable option for dealing with the wolf, and others where they adamantly refused to even consider changing their weapon build, despite the fact that changing just two mods would have doubled their potential damage output against the wolf. 

In another, where someone was less adamant about his choice of weapon, he came to the realization that he was able to do far more damage and that his initial choice was rather poor. He seemed to realise that he was the contributing factor in the difficulties he faced afterward. 

How many nonsense arguments have you personally made that boil down to "I don't really want to take any of the viable options available to me, they should make it so that my poor choices are viable instead"? Think about it. 

[YUNoJump]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

-snip-

OK our responses are getting way too long at this point, so I just want to paraphrase my side of the argument into a simpler statement.

Regardless of the benefits of bringing a Wolf-specific weapon, not using one gives a player the option of using a potentially more enjoyable weapon. Without a suitable weapon, and even when using some Warframes, the Wolf is considerably more annoying to fight, but there are problems in that not only does he only show up in a minority of missions, he can potentially show up in almost every type of mission; this means that there isn't really a way to predict his arrival and any preparation has to be constantly kept in use even though he barely ever appears. 

Other than that, his tankiness is partially achieved by totally removing the ability to use CC and status, meaning that a lot of his difficulty is just because he ignores core game features. His invincible allies are also part of this problem. This results in a fight that many people don't find enjoyable, even if some do. On top of this, he often gives no substantial rewards upon killing him, sometimes nothing more than an elemental mod.

If the Wolf had a more interesting way of being tanky, with more well-designed allies, and with a reward table that can be trusted to give good rewards, then I could agree with the idea of preparing for him. I'd prepare if I was excited to see the Wolf in a mission; his current state means that rather than feeling excited to fight him, I feel like I want to get him out of the way. This negative connotation around something that is supposed to be fun is not good for the game in my opinion.

Edited May 18, 2019 by YUNoJump

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

OK our responses are getting way too long at this point, so I just want to paraphrase my side of the argument into a simpler statement.

Regardless of the benefits of bringing a Wolf-specific weapon, not using one gives a player the option of using a potentially more enjoyable weapon. Without a suitable weapon, and even when using some Warframes, the Wolf is considerably more annoying to fight, but there are problems in that not only does he only show up in a minority of missions, he can potentially show up in almost every type of mission; this means that there isn't really a way to predict his arrival and any preparation has to be constantly kept in use even though he barely ever appears. 

Other than that, his tankiness is partially achieved by totally removing the ability to use CC and status, meaning that a lot of his difficulty is just because he ignores core game features. His invincible allies are also part of this problem. This results in a fight that many people don't find enjoyable, even if some do. On top of this, he often gives no substantial rewards upon killing him, sometimes nothing more than an elemental mod.

If the Wolf had a more interesting way of being tanky, with more well-designed allies, and with a reward table that can be trusted to give good rewards, then I could agree with the idea of preparing for him. I'd prepare if I was excited to see the Wolf in a mission; his current state means that rather than feeling excited to fight him, I feel like I want to get him out of the way. This negative connotation around something that is supposed to be fun is not good for the game in my opinion.

And I respond by simply reiterating that it was never a "wolf specific weapon" any weapon that deals significant damage to the wolf will also eliminate the vast majority of enemies in the starchart with ease. Pretending that it is a weapon to only deal with the wolf is disingenuous to the extreme. We have multiple options in every single weapon slot that we could have used to good effect. Some people have refused to pick any of these options. It is common sense that those who refuse to take appropriate gear will have a difficult time. That is literally their own fault. 

Taking inappropriate weapons and frames is alway going to be a bad idea in higher-level content, and the fact that many of us have grown used to just cheesing our way with bad weapons is not a reason to nerf an enemy who laughs at the sheer hubris of the people who think themselves untouchable killing machines. 

His invincible allies are easily dealt with, either by leading him away from them, mission permitting, or by cc'ing the living daylights out of them. 

For an enemy that gave no substantial rewards some of his drops were worth hundreds of plat. In fact when he became a guaranteed spawn during the alert, many people lamented buying the drops for as much as they spent. This fact shows your claim to be an echo of "sour grapes" and dismissable as such. 

The minute someone laments about him being hard to kill, taking too long to kill, or having been killed by the Wolf, they already gave an indication of why going unprepared was a bad idea. The ridiculous amount of whining is indication that many people chose to be unprepared, not that the wolf was difficult to kill. 

[zoffmode]

The year is 2021. The devs read this feedback thread and started releasing more content like Wolf. Now there's also Chicken who can only be defeated by Magnetic status procs weapons. There's Hawk assassin who can only take damage from bows with electric damage. Crab assassin that is only defeatable by Operator with Virtuous Forge arcane equipped. And especially powerful Gorgon assassin that is totally invulnerable UNLESS you have Gorgon weapon in which case she just drops all the loot with no fighting and just goes away.

If you have any complaints, simply learn and adapt. Be ready, Tenno, for these 4% spawn chance assassins with extremely low drop rate exclusive weapon parts and cosmetics. Hell, one of them even has a frame behind it. Good luck kiddo.

Edited May 18, 2019 by zoffmode

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

19 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

If you really need a meta for the bosses in the Starchart, then something might be wrong.  I mean you can pretty much kill all the Bosses in the Starchart using anything.  Just saying.  😄

 

I want to see your latest status weapon Tricap lol

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

I want to see your latest status weapon Tricap lol

Just because you get to PoE with the star chart doesn't mean that Eidolons are a "Star Chart" boss.

I can't tell if this is a tongue-in-cheek response poking fun or an actual response arguing semantics, if it is the former I apologize if it is the latter, see previous sentence.

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, zoffmode said:

The year is 2021. The devs read this feedback thread and started releasing more content like Wolf. Now there's also Chicken who can only be defeated by Magnetic status procs weapons. There's Hawk assassin who can only take damage from bows with electric damage. Crab assassin that is only defeatable by Operator with Virtuous Forge arcane equipped. And especially powerful Gorgon assassin that is totally invulnerable UNLESS you have Gorgon weapon in which case she just drops all the loot with no fighting and just goes away.

If you have any complaints, simply learn and adapt. Be ready, Tenno, for these 4% spawn chance assassins with extremely low drop rate exclusive weapon parts and cosmetics. Hell, one of them even has a frame behind it. Good luck kiddo.

Completely disingenuous representation of the argument being presented.

Wolf can still be killed with other weaponry. I've done it with a dagger zaw that has zero elementals on it, before. It just took a while.

You saw exactly what happened when they made him into a regular enemy in his Tactical Alert mission.