Ah nekros, my old bony friend

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Nekros main with more than 300 million affinity on Nekros/Prime last time I checked. Nekros is one of the most powerful frames in the game right now... one of the most powerful combat frames... right now. Doesn't require any rework IMO other than perhaps making the shades smaller and less obtrusive to the team. The raw power of the augments has been the "rework" of Nekros over time.

Nekros' power is related to the loot horking function of Desecrate/Despoil, but that function in and of itself does not define the frame's power. The power comes from the combination of survivability tools that work fine on other frames, but truly make Nekros shine, such as Health Conversion and Equilibrium (Vitality and Adaptation as well, only a stretch mod, no strength), constant healing waves from a set of Arcane Pulse, and the ability for it to permanently channel melee (triggering zaw exodia triumph or valor) while running Naramon for high combo counter without needing Rage or to be hit. Other frames generate health orbs... not like Nekros though, and especially not like a choppy melee Nekros. The passive is deceptively powerful also.

This whole thing you’re only praising Desecrate and it’s interaction with a plethora of mods. As powerful as all that is, the fact that not one of his other abilities are mentioned means that you don’t feel they’re worth mentioning and by extent using.

His 1 and 4 definitively need some form of buff or rework.

[BlachWolf]

2 hours ago, Drasiel said:

Why.. Didn't you just copy the text from that and paste it here instead of making us jump through an extra hoop to comment. 

Because he doesn't care about usability or quality of life choices haha.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

The 4th ability needs it's casting time drastically reduced. It's absurd.

That or needs to have some grander function outside of summoning allies that can’t kill your enemies to justify the cast time.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, BlachWolf said:

Because he doesn't care about usability or quality of life choices haha.

So he’s on the UI team?

[BlachWolf]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So he’s on the UI team?

Less is more is the new motto (sponsored by apple).

[Buttaface]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

the fact that not one of his other abilities are mentioned

Yeah, well, that's because YOU CUT THE WHOLE LAST PARAGRAPH WHERE I DID CLEARLY MENTION MY USE OF THE OTHER ABILITIES OUT OF THE BLOCK QUOTE!

Gaming forums, always such a hoot.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

Yeah, well, that's because YOU CUT THE WHOLE LAST PARAGRAPH WHERE I DID CLEARLY MENTION MY USE OF THE OTHER ABILITIES OUT OF THE BLOCK QUOTE!

Gaming forums, always such a hoot.

You only brought them up to talk about his augments.

[Buttaface]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You only brought them up to talk about his augments.

So now a goalpost shift. Not surprised. Augmented or not, the skills ARE THE SKILLS. I use the first three regularly and they are just fine... as I clearly stated in the post that you cut off for the purpose of making an empty straw man. Done now.

[-Reylik-]

@Buttaface

Huh, my stats haven't tracked my Nekros affiinity for a long, long time. I wonder what the trigger is... I'm not competing with ya but I sure as heck should have way more than 300M affinity on it 😬

//

Hey, I've been playing Nekros actively ever since I started the game. It's how my friends baited me into joining Warframe late March 2016 (this or the presence of "scythe" class weapons). As for my opinion on the prospect of a Nekros rework, well, I don't think he really needs it. A couple QoL changes, maybe, perhaps.

On 2019-05-29 at 8:40 PM, Space0ddity said:

soul punch should be removed

Personally I quite like Nekros' 1 and its augment. I might be a lunatic but I've recently been having a lot of fun taking it along to public Tridolon hunts. And before trials were removed, I'd always take [Soul Survivor] for teaching LoR to less experienced raiders. Sure it's not the most obviously powerful augment out there, but how many other frames *require* all of their augments to be useful? Augments at their core just modify how an ability performs. I don't run Soul Punch augment all the time, I've got Vazarin for revives (albeit limited to 8 each mission) and death isn't all that common in most content. Plus people opt to kill/revive themselves most of the time. All the same, I think it's a fun way to change things up -- at least I don't have to frantically make my way over to a downed ally. 

FewWeeksLater edit in spoiler:

Spoiler

Wow I didn't even talk about non-augmented Soul Punch. This ability could probably use some work, and people angry at Nekros' lower-interaction-quality can rightfully be upset about this gimmick. I can say what it's good for but I admit that doesn't make it a good ability. I... 

• Punch Corpus cameras up near the ceiling as I run through Corpus ships
• Punch low level enemies that probably wouldn't even dent my shields 
• Punch lower level roller balls because those little pricks don't sit still

So basically I don't use it for much. The value of this one lies in its nature as a one-handed action. You can use it while reloading weapons (I had to develop a habit of this, it's not intuitive), and if you're say rolling along to move quickly then it doesn't interrupt your parkour. There's no recoil either so your camera won't do the boink thing from firing some guns. And it's a noticeably delayed attack but it's essentially hitscan. Once you cast it, whatever you targeted is gonna pop away across the room.

It'd be nice if Soul Punch's base ability got a neat touch-up like what Ember got -- a bit more interactivity, or perhaps relevance.

//

On 2019-05-29 at 8:40 PM, Space0ddity said:

terrify armor reduction should be buffed

Heck, I love Nekros, so I'll take any buff, any day. But in my opinion this ability's fine where it is. It's strong crowd control. Extremely underappreciated. The base duration at max rank is already 25s -- yes, there are better frames for cc. It only has 15m base range, which I've admittedly been sad about in the past, but with typical Nekros builds, energy isn't a problem so recasting poses no issue -- Pop Terrify in one spot, fly over to another and Terrify again; you'll have covered two circles of 15m radius, and you'll probably just get the energy back soon anyway. 

Edit: forgot to mention a big point: The base ability's fear stops enemies from beginning any other attacks on you. Without the augment's slow it might be harder to hit enemies as they run away full speed but it makes things safer.

I realize you didn't say anything about those stats, but I'll get there. I just wanna put out there that it should be seen as a cc ability which also conveniently comes with the bonus armor shred. 

Great if it gets buffed, if not, well... It already lets you smack enemies around for free. The [Creeping Terrify] augment also slows a decent variety of things (such as Thumpers) and you only need 125% total strength to hit the max slow from a single source (75% slow).

//

I'll agree with you that Desecrate's loot bonus doesn't appear that helpful in general but the health orbs are awesome (for your teammates). They might not notice it but if you're cutting down swarms of enemies, that health adds up. Similar to the thing I said about Vazarin offering better revives than [Soul Survivor] though, yea, you could have a Trinity for instant full heals or any number of the other options that have been added to the game as of late (Garuda, Wisp red mote, Magus Repair). But you can't always assume there's gonna be those around, and if someone takes a small hit, maybe Trinity doesn't wanna waste energy on Bless, you know? or even notice the damage. Also don't forget that it can rip out extra life modules in Survivals. I also speed up Excavation arbitrations with it (in the sense that we get more cells so we're not waiting on the power carriers to spawn).

I don't really like that the majority of people only see Nekros as a loot frame but it's not wrong. I use frames like Mesa and Chroma for very niche purposes, ignoring half of their kits. People will just play what they wanna play, or what's efficient. 

// 

Shadows. This is what I consider the meat of Warframe's resident necromancer, and it's the reason I started playing this frame so much (though I grew to appreciate his other abilities with time). It's seen some changes and I miss the 20-minion cast dearly. But it can't be helped if DE had to make the change for performance reasons. 7 minions now. Still got a meaningful army, so I'm not complaining. In my opinion this is the last ability that would need a true rework; Nekros wouldn't be a very good Master of Death without it. Desecrate alone would just make him a grave robber. 

These guys can draw fire away from you and your team (to the detriment of Adaptation builds, actually), and though it falls off relatively early into the game, their damage is noticeable maybe into the level 50s with enemy armor. Mostly they just kill the small fries like Butchers. Granted, we can one-shot many more things with our weapons than our undead team can with focused fire in a minute, but it's still good. I actually don't know what benefits eximi grant the Tenno, but they do have element-mitigating auras when on the enemy team. And Infested/Corrupted Ancients grant a bunch of damage reduction! And those guys suck up status procs for all allies on your team (unless they're irradiated)!

Edit: Just did a quick test, got myself a Venomous Eximus (toxic ancient) shadow and sat in front of another toxic ancient. The roars didn't scratch me, so I did get the complete toxin damage immunity from the eximus aura 🙂

Agree with some comments that his shadows are confusing to teammates (tried blue energy color with a nullifier shadow?). They can be disruptive at times. Sometimes you get the arctic eximi whose bubbles block your shots and you blow yourself up... speaking from experience. If anything could be done to further address the clarity of "this charger is an ally, that one is not" in a fast-paced game like this, that would definitely be great. 

One last bit from me, something like tips for people complaining about the long cast time for Shadows of the Dead:

• The cast time is definitely pretty long, so take every effort to be safe while you're in animation. 
  • Don't stand still when you cast. Be on the move, stay on the move. Slide before casting, keep sliding while casting. Jump in the air and aim glide while casting.
  • Or even just... hide in a corner.
  • Pull out your melee before you cast -- Nekros can still block shots coming from the direction of your crosshairs, even if he's flailing his arms around.
  • Significant -- This change came around when the 20-minions iteration was removed, but now Nekros can perform a significantly abbreviated cast if he has 7 shadows alive at the moment he begins casting. You should definitely try to keep your shadows alive and recast every so often to heal them up. It won't always be the case, but if you do this and get into a good habit of moving while casting, you're almost never vulnerable.

I ranted a good while so if you read through all this, thanks much. I put a lot of thought into him over the years and I've never once been bored of the frame. Feel free to reach out in-game if you wanna chat about him. I don't expect anyone to agree with me completely, and I'm definitely not saying he's perfect. I wouldn't mind some synergies here and there like the newer frames have. But I hope people dissatisfied with him realize he's in a pretty good spot for the most part. He sits snugly in a generalist position, and you can definitely find stronger competition in most fields like cc, pure tankiness, or (obviously) damage. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by -Reylik-
Worked so hard on the post and a typo still snuck in :cry:

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

So now a goalpost shift. Not surprised. Augmented or not, the skills ARE THE SKILLS. I use the first three regularly and they are just fine... as I clearly stated in the post that you cut off for the purpose of making an empty straw man. Done now.

Come on man, you are "that guy" who is "this is fine because I have all my very specific arcanes, a very specific build I like to play, using very specific weapons with very specific mods to achieve a very specific effect". As far as what DE is doing to Frames design wise nowadays is quite contradictory to what you are talking about, because from what I see, they want you to be able to build stuff with some wiggle room for customization and still be useful.

You can't tell people what they are supposed to like and play. There isn't a "correct way to play Nekros or build Nekros", so to speak.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Buttaface said:

So now a goalpost shift. Not surprised. Augmented or not, the skills ARE THE SKILLS. I use the first three regularly and they are just fine... as I clearly stated in the post that you cut off for the purpose of making an empty straw man. Done now.

Doesn’t change the fact that a large majority of what you said was solely about Desecrate. Nekros shouldn’t be just one ability. That just makes him a 1 trick pony and as we’ve seen in the past, 1 trick ponies aren’t that highly regarded in the community. The only reason his need of a rework isn’t even slightly accept is because his 1 trick is so incredibly good and necessary for the game.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

That or needs to have some grander function outside of summoning allies that can’t kill your enemies to justify the cast time.

Agreed. One of the abilities in the game that makes the least sense to me considering all the drawbacks, especially with the specters dying over time.

[Buttaface]

4 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Come on man, you are "that guy" who is "this is fine because I have all my very specific arcanes, a very specific build I like to play, using very specific weapons with very specific mods to achieve a very specific effect".

Wrong. More straw man from a regular poster of such to the forum, not spending more time on it.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

21 hours ago, trst said:

Souls punch is bad but still far better than a lot of other "1st" abilities as it offers single target CC while being a one-handed action.

There isn't a SINGLE first ability that is as useless as Soul Punch. Even Tesla has a greater effect than Soul Punch.

Edited May 30, 2019 by (PS4)LoisGordils

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Wrong. More straw man from a regular poster of such to the forum, not spending more time on it.

Considering your only argumentation technique is to use the "my favourite build which requires an extreme specific play is the only valid play, so all people's opinions are invalid" every single time, I don't think there is any argumentation on your part. 

You keep dismissing things as Straw Men because you simply are "it's my way or the highway". Indeed, you are "that guy". Your dismissals are simply because you have no actual argument that can convince others, that is all.

[(PSN)chibitonka]

Nekros's whole kit could benefit seeing some love. Maybe remove desecrate for something more fitting of a necromancer frame.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

5 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Wrong. More straw man from a regular poster of such to the forum, not spending more time on it.

I understand what you mean, and we actually share the same build for Nekros (kohm, Status Zaw Channeling Arcane, Arcane Pulse , Equilibrium ect ) however Warframe is changing to cater a casual audience.

Don't be surprised to one day see the strategies you've cleverly crafted become streamlined into the kit. It almost feels inevitable.

I do see the value in all of his skills even soul punch (people underestimate ragdoll CC), but once again I personally think his 4th could use some modern readjustments considering how needy SoTD can be.

 

[Tarta97]

Sorry for my choice, I thought that creating an identical new post could create problems.
If this thing is so unbearable for your majesty, I can edit the post. 😊

[DeMonkey]

14 hours ago, -Reylik- said:

Huh, my stats haven't tracked my Nekros affiinity for a long, long time. I wonder what the trigger is... I'm not competing with ya but I sure as heck should have way more than 300M affinity on it 😬

The shown amount is the highest you've reached in a single forma. It's 192 million for me on Wukong because I keep formaing him to try new things. Currently used 10 forma across both of my Wukong's and fully expect to use more.

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

12 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

There isn't a SINGLE first ability that is as useless as Soul Punch. Even Tesla has a greater effect than Soul Punch.

No.  Wrong.  At the very least soul punch can CC a powerful enemy that you've targeted and open them up for a ground finisher.

Tesla is pure trash.  And I like Vauban, he's just useless in the all DPS all the time warframe of today.  

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

15 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Wrong. More straw man from a regular poster of such to the forum, not spending more time on it.

Dude, if you’re just going to accuse us of strawmaning you instead of actually debating with us then you can just go. We have no desire to argue with someone when all they do is try and make themselves look like the bigger man in the most childish way possible.

Edited May 31, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Buttaface]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Dude, if you’re just going to accuse us of strawmaning you instead of actually debating with us then you can just go. We have no desire to argue with someone when all they do is try and make themselves look like the bigger man in the most childish way possible.

LOL. More strawman with the "bigger man" nonsense, keeps growing with each post from you and some of the usual suspects. I have no interest in "debating" you or "arguing" with you.

Well at least you are using other than texter semiliterate English now, that's a plus...eh... for the most part... "Dude."

Edited May 31, 2019 by Buttaface

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

I have no interest in "debating" you or "arguing" with you.

Then why are you here?

[Buttaface]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Then why are you here?

I am here to respond to the topic. You responded to my original post inanely, and have continued after with more inanity. I guess OP appreciates the bumps, your posts to this thread aren't much else.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Buttaface

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

I am here to respond to the topic. You responded to my original post inanely, and have continued after with more inanity. I guess OP appreciates the bumps, your posts to this thread aren't much else.

If you’re going to reply to a topic you should be ready for people to disagree with you. Simple dismissing them and saying that you have no intention of debating your point of view that just undermines your original post.