Ah nekros, my old bony friend

[Gurpgork]

On 2019-05-30 at 8:29 AM, Buttaface said:

Nekros' power is related to the loot horking function of Desecrate/Despoil, but that function in and of itself does not define the frame's power. The power comes from the combination of survivability tools that work fine on other frames, but truly make Nekros shine, such as Health Conversion and Equilibrium (Vitality and Adaptation as well, only a stretch mod, no strength), constant healing waves from a set of Arcane Pulse, and the ability for it to permanently channel melee (triggering zaw exodia triumph or valor) while running Naramon for high combo counter without needing Rage or to be hit. Other frames generate health orbs... not like Nekros though, and especially not like a choppy melee Nekros. The passive is deceptively powerful also.

Yeah, I'm not really buying this as an argument that Nekros is good. This is only an argument that the mods that interact with health orbs can be strong enough to carry you if you can generate enough health orbs to fuel them. 

And I'm especially not buying this when Nezha can do the same thing, only Nezha can generate even more health orbs than Nekros--since Reaping Chakram can generate multiple health orbs per enemy--while also having a powerful set of 4 abilities that are powerful on their own, while also being fully synergistic. Compared to Nekros, Nezha can make a build that is more mobile, more durable, has better CC, generates tons of energy orbs alongside health orbs, and has a hilariously powerful nuke, all while only needing one augment and safely being able to skip Equilibrium. 

You know how strong your health orb Nekros build is? Imagine how good it would be if you were using it on a Warframe with a kit so powerful that you didn't have to rely on health orbs at all. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Gurpgork

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

53 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Yeah, I'm not really buying this as an argument that Nekros is good. This is only an argument that the mods that interact with health orbs can be strong enough to carry you if you can generate enough health orbs to fuel them. 

And I'm especially not buying this when Nezha can do the same thing, only Nezha can generate even more health orbs than Nekros--since Reaping Chakram can generate multiple health orbs per enemy--while also having a powerful set of 4 abilities that are powerful on their own, while also being fully synergistic. Compared to Nekros, Nezha can make a build that is more mobile, more durable, has better CC, generates tons of energy orbs alongside health orbs, and has a hilariously powerful nuke, all while only needing one augment and safely being able to skip Equilibrium. 

You know how strong your health orb Nekros build is? Imagine how good it would be if you were using it on a Warframe with a kit so powerful that you didn't have to rely on health orbs at all. 

Sorry bro, this comment is foolish.

Nekros doesnt have to rely on health orbs. You could easily just use his 2nd, scare enemies and shoot them in the back for CCtt. The power of his kit lies in the reliability of his unique position to spawn health orbs. His cast and forget style of desecrate works more favorably than throwing the chakram and he's granted some extremely powerful synergies because of that. Buttaface isn't wrong in his claims that Nekros is good. 

His argument is that you aren't using Nekros to his full potential. Moreso along the lines of, "The Frame is good, but the player is bad."

[Buttaface]

4 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Yeah, I'm not really buying this as an argument that Nekros is good. This is only an argument that the mods that interact with health orbs can be strong enough to carry you if you can generate enough health orbs to fuel them. 

And I'm especially not buying this when Nezha can do the same thing, only Nezha can generate even more health orbs than Nekros while also having a powerful set of 4 abilities that are powerful on their own, while also being fully synergistic. Compared to Nekros, Nezha can make a build that is more mobile, more durable, has better CC, generates tons of energy orbs as well as even more health orbs than Nekros can even dream of (since Reaping Chakram can generate more than one health orb per enemy) and has a hilariously powerful nuke, all while only needing one augment and safely being able to skip Equilibrium. 

You know how strong your health orb Nekros build is? Imagine how good it would be if you were using it on a Warframe with a kit so powerful that you didn't have to rely on health orbs at all. 

I like Nezha also, need to play it more as the rework was great.  Not to be rude, but you simply don't have enough experience on Nekros or Nekros P to make some of the assumptions and claims that you are making above.

1. Nezha requires energy expenditure to generate health orbs, and unless Nezha does nothing but stand around and press "2" in a perfect storm map/team for it, that Nezha will generate more health orbs than Nekros is simply not the case, not even remotely close. Nekros is always generating health orbs and will generate -vastly- more of them than any other frame in the game as a matter of fact and not opinion (even off dead shades if for some reason the team isn't getting enough otherwise... but they always are). Nekros, for example, will still generate orbs in a large radius from mobs killed by AOE of Saryn, Volt, Mesa, Equinox, Mag, Banshee, Ember, Gara, Frost, Octavia, Khora, etc. Nezha will not unless they were hit by the disc first. Same for energy orbs. And Nezha doesn't hork up extra ammo, resources and mods/endo WHILE filling the map with health and energy orbs automatically. Finally, Arcane Pulse, very powerful on Nekros due to the preceding facts, is not nearly as powerful on Nezha.

2. Turning to the kit, Nezha's 1 is an OK low level skill for killing trash, I'll take Nekros augmented 1 that comes in handy constantly in mid or higher missions and pugs, especially now with Magus Repair to heal up insta rezzed teammates fast. It allows me to run Naramon for very high combo while having pocket Vazarin via Soul Survivor also. Nezha's "1" is essentially a weak Dispatch Overdrive on the melee weapon (Nezha's 1 should not be speed capped IMO as a side note), and that makes Nekros plenty fast, wouldn't want to be any faster than 2.1 or so sprint speed, especially with Volts and now Wisps in lots of missions. Nezha -can- perma channel using zenurik, but if using naramon for the fat combo preservation, becomes sketchy.

Also prefer Terrify over Nezha's disc toss. At levels high enough to need extra damage on disc-hit mobs, I find the immense CC and a bit of armor strip of Creeping Terrify more useful. It is essentially a pocket slowva -ult-, hugely underrated skill that I would recommend all Nekros players consider instead of SOS. Nezha's 2, esp combined with Nezha's 1, is nice CC as well, but nowhere near as powerful as Terrify due to not being radial.

Turning to comparison of the third skills, I can't remember the last time I went down on Nekros, and without even using the 4 or SOS regularly for years... other than getting sliced by laser noobs in void defense. In a game with Adaptation, Rolling Guard, Health Conversion, Arcane Guardian, Arcane Pulse, and now Magus Repair, etc., I'm just not experiencing any (non boss fight) threats that would require Nezha's 3 in anything that takes an hour or less including arbitrations, kuva survival, sorties, void endless, high bounties, toroid farming, and I'm not going to play any single session of any game longer than an hour these days. It's nice, but superfluous. I regularly solo arbitration survivals to 30 minutes or so on Nekros with no survivability issues at all, and could probably go much longer if not for sheer boredom.

Finally, frankly would take Nezha's 4 over Nekros' 4, given the choice, but only by a slim margin given all the CC immunities in certain parts of the game now, and how Nekros 4 can administer lots of team benefits and CC on its own.

3. Nezha got a really nice rework, and that is the only reason it's remotely close to Nekros in power and especially team utility. Lots of frames have not gotten reworks, despite dire need, which grounds my opinion that Nekros is fine and way down the list for a rework.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Buttaface

[-Reylik-]

On 2019-05-31 at 4:41 AM, DeMonkey said:

The shown amount is the highest you've reached in a single forma. It's 192 million for me on Wukong because I keep formaing him to try new things. Currently used 10 forma across both of my Wukong's and fully expect to use more.

Oh is that how it is! Thanks a bunch for clearing that up. 😀 I really love the passion that players can exhibit with regards to their favorite equipment.