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ZeroZX4

Polarize with forma 3 times not in simulacrum

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16 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Which is what many people are doing.

Just because players have the "option" to skip it, doesnt mean it isn't a badly designed challenge.

The "with a friend/clanmate" challenges were badly designed & those were skippable.

So by your logic. All challenges are fine because they can be skipped.

There is no point in having challenges that a vast number (from what I'm seeing a majority) of players will skip. If its skipped that heavily then its badly designed & might as well not even be there.

Unless this is the last week of Season 1 (it is). And there are players who are trying to get it this week. For some this challenge is basically saying "Pay 35p to get rank 30"

Because if they don't already have Forma cooking by Wednesday's daily reset they will be out of luck.

I see. That's a perfectly sane expectation & behavior. Nothing wrong with that at all.

For most people, using forma 3 times is basically free 3k points. Also, Warframe is a co-op game and is played as such. How is something, that makes you play the game, as it was intended to be played, bad. Yes, not everyone feels the need to forma their equipment or play co-op, BUT YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO SKIP IT. And no, just because it doesn't fit your playstyle or progress, does not mean it is a bad design. They are basically rewarding you for doing something, your average player would have most probably done it anyways. But no, you have to be crying over 8k you could easily recover the week after.

Also, how hard can it be to do, let's say, 10 relic runs at most for 3 forma blueprints and than just collect them 3 times in week. You do not even need to open Warframe on your PC for the most part, you only need the mobile app to keep track of them and that's it. Also, it's as if 35p is such a burden to gather via trade chat anyways. #*!%ing christ, you people love complaining over dumb S#&$.

I mean, yes, Nightwave season 1 had its problems, but those were definitely not, use three forma you would most probably use anyways, or play with a friend/clan mate. You can hop on recruit chat, should you, worst case scenarion, not be in a clan or have any friends online.

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1 hour ago, ErzaSakuretto said:

For most people, using forma 3 times is basically free 3k points.

This is false.
The majority of players who have 3 or more Forma just sitting in their inventory are Veteran players who have already Forma'd the bulk of their inventory & have no use for it.
Generally Forma is used as quickly as it is acquired. Although I guess now it's best to wait to use Forma, not Forma as needed for progression.

Me for example. At this point I would be using Forma just to use it. I don't have anything atm that needs a Forma.
So this is a waste. The only thing I managed to scrounge up was my Helminth Charger who needs 1 final Forma.
Guess I should just start Forma my Ash or another frame till I get to 100? Just for the sake of a challenge?
I passed this week.

It is a bad challenge. Newer players cannot afford to even craft 3 Forma until they reach Saturn (Ceres resources are few & far between).
Also, crafting 3 Forma takes 72hrs tops. As of right now 5/16/19 if a player is just now crafting their 3 Forma they are out of luck. Challenge Failed.

Reduce the challenge to 1 Forma & you get a significantly more accessible & fair challenge. I'm not arguing to "Remove" or "Kill" the challenge. I am arguing to have it improved.

1 hour ago, ErzaSakuretto said:

Also, Warframe is a co-op game and is played as such. How is something, that makes you play the game, as it was intended to be played, bad.

Co-op or not. The "with a Friend/Clanmate" challenges only succeeded in creating false friendships, & temporary (join me just so we can get this over with) friends.
If Warframe wants to promote it's co-op aspect then it needs to make co-op an organic & fun experience. Not shove it down player's throats.
Whenever any game shoves/forces things down on the players they naturally resist it.
Also, the with a friend/clanmate did block people capable of doing said challenges who actually wanted to complete them, from completing them. (IE: Profit Taker; I have friends who could maybe do it...but none have reached Old Mate yet. So no Bueno for me. Atleast with the Hydrolyst I could carry em through it.)
Add in that Warframe prides itself on being accessible to both Solo players & co-op players. So such challenges create a contradiction in gameplay.

I actually like Nightwave. However, I will keep fighting to ensure it's accessible, fair, & sane.
As I said many times in this thread. I'm skipping the Forma Challenge, & the Sortie Challenge this week. The rest I've already knocked out.

Moving forward (into Season 2) I personally am locked out of the Forma challenges because until I get some new weapon I feel is worth a Forma, I have no reason to use a Forma.
However, I'm fine with that. I am NOT fine with the newer players I know feeling forced into burning their meager resources on Forma BPs, or feeling strong armed into buying a Forma Bundle because of a Challenge. I told all of them to skip it.
One of them absolutely HAS to do it to get the Wolf Armor. So for him, Rank 30 costs 35p. No way around it at this point. That's not good design.

1 hour ago, ErzaSakuretto said:

You can hop on recruit chat, should you, worst case scenarion, not be in a clan or have any friends online.

This is personal values here.
Not everyone is ok with fake friends, or using other players as tools. If you're only adding a player to complete a challenge then are not someone you are cooperating with, they are a means to an end. A tool to fulfil a job.
I'm not the most social guy but I refuse to use others like that. To my surprise a larger percentage of the Warframe community shares this sentiment. Which is surprising.

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On 2019-05-13 at 9:38 PM, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

It never works that way.

Refined relics give formas. Unrefined give the gold crap. (I hate rng...)

Also my luck is atrocious with relics. When I NEED Forma it gives me everything BUT forma.

My stock of forma says that this is false.

I run unrefined relics with formas in the common drop pool to refill my traces and keep topped up quite nicely with forma

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Since when was forma hard to get?  If you open relics as a group of four there is usually at least one forma blueprint.  And I always have things that need formaing. 

The argument is weak.  If you have nothing to forma then you don’t need forma, so just forma some MR Fodder to get the award.  Sure, it’s a waste of forma, but you just said you don’t need forma.  

Forma used to be expensive to build but since the login awards changed I am swimming in Orokin cells and other materials.  And I build a lot of forma.  If you don’t, because you don’t need it, then you probably have spare ingredients.  

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Just skip the 3 forma challenge. You'll still reach level 30. If you still want to complete that challenge after hitting level 30, don't complain that you only get creds for buying nitain that you already have. 

It's only come up 3 times right? It would be another story if you had to do it every week. Even then, it can still be skipped. 

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Nope, I got it...You just don't agree..which is fine if you want to state your own opinion.  But it's not a fact.

What you're actually asking for, whether you'd state it as such or not, is for DE to basically just void the point of challenges at ALL and pretty much GIVE you the "rewards" from the get-go.

Not everything needs to be something you "like" to get to something you -want-.   

Really im not attacking u here so dont get me wrong but if u believe i want something from nw challenges u didnt get at all what i meant
i got everything i wanted from warframe im not into fashion im not into decorations im not into skins im not into rivens
im only into leveling all weapons and getting highest mr i can which i accomplished already

so let me put it this way
in my country there is saying "if u care about something u will find a way to get it if you dont care about it you will find excuse to not get it"

so tell me does de would want us to care or to find an excuse?

if they give us challenges from which most of us dont get anything we want what is the motivation of doing them?
doing them just for sake of doing them? and thats why ppl complain
but if we could do it just for sake of doing them and then get a reward that in our eyes would be or at least feel worthy would that be a bad thing? or would it help players just play the game without complains?

 

7 hours ago, Aazhyd said:

This challenge is not new. You could have prepared. I have an ungilded Zaw lying around just in case, plus several unfilled Ayatan treasures. Not hard to farm a few Forma's and wait for the challenge.

Well designed challenge? Nope.

Hard to complete? Also nope. It was my first completed challenge of this week.

 

i would agree with you but imagine if 3 forma challenge would appear each week
would it be hard to complete? nope
would it be welcome by players? also nope

if we get "kill phorid 3 times" challenge each week instead of use 3 formas would that annoy any1? nope
now figure out why

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15 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

It is bad - and certainly bad for players who don't need or want to forma anything.  I definitely don't need or want to forma anything.  The last time this challenge came up, I forma'd a check back to a check. then had a rank 0 weapon I had to level up again for absolutely no reason.  

as for "it only takes 24 hours to craft one and get it back" - well sure, but some of us have several Aura forma Bp's we are building - which take 4 forma each. So in my case for example I had 6 aura formas, which makes 24 regular forma - so it'd take me 24 days to get around to making up that one.

Which actually brings me to my thought and that is applying an Aura forma should count for all three - after all you just consumed 4 by making it.

In any event, people are upset I think because unlike most if not all other challenges, this one is directly tied to the platinum economy and just reeks of a money grab (even if there are simple ways around it).

 

That's not what the person was asking for and you know it.  The Nightwave challenges in general are meant to encourage people to PLAY the game.  If that were the intent of this (the only, and weak, argument for THIS PARTICULAR challenge by nature of having to level your crap up again), the challenge would have been "Rank three items from 0 to 30".  But that's not the challenge - the challenge is apply 3 forma - they don't care if you play the game, so long as you use up that forma.  Perhaps its not DE's intent but it smells like they hope:

  • some people don't have time to farm forma, or are impatient to get the challenge done and will buy a forma or three from the market. 
  • some people don't have time to craft a forma, and rush it for plat.

The above is why people don't like THIS challenge and I haven't seen one person asking for anyone to "just void the point of challenges at ALL and pretty much GIVE" anything.  Get off your white horse already.

1. Aura Formas were not a thing when NW started.  That may be added in during NW Season 2 but for this season, it wasn't.  If you have nothing to Forma, and you thus have no NEED for any forma you HAVE, then you should have no issue "Forma'ing a check back to a check" 3 times over the course of a full WEEK to get the measly 3000 standing.  

Or, ya know...You can skip it =_= as DE has said SO many times!  

You can't call it a money grab if there ARE "easy ways around it", and  even then, there is NOTHING wrong with a FREE game -hoping- you spend a few bucks here or there. They have to incentivise spending SOMEWHERE, and y'all keep complaining when they do!  Like you expect this whole game to be free all the time , and for DE to just pay for their food and shelter with "good will" and forum rep?

Get off YOUR horse, already...

7 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

Really im not attacking u here so dont get me wrong but if u believe i want something from nw challenges u didnt get at all what i meant
i got everything i wanted from warframe im not into fashion im not into decorations im not into skins im not into rivens
im only into leveling all weapons and getting highest mr i can which i accomplished already

so let me put it this way
in my country there is saying "if u care about something u will find a way to get it if you dont care about it you will find excuse to not get it"

so tell me does de would want us to care or to find an excuse?

if they give us challenges from which most of us dont get anything we want what is the motivation of doing them?
doing them just for sake of doing them? and thats why ppl complain
but if we could do it just for sake of doing them and then get a reward that in our eyes would be or at least feel worthy would that be a bad thing? or would it help players just play the game without complains?

 

i would agree with you but imagine if 3 forma challenge would appear each week
would it be hard to complete? nope
would it be welcome by players? also nope

if we get "kill phorid 3 times" challenge each week instead of use 3 formas would that annoy any1? nope
now figure out why

It DOESN'T appear each week, so let's not demonize them for something they didn't actually do, first of all.

Second, it is not up to DE to "make everyone care".  They put the content out there.  It's up to YOU to either care or choose not to.

So, again....are you making excuses, or do you want to succeed in NightWave?  If you don't, fine, but plenty of people have done so with very little effort (myself included) so it's more than doable.

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12 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

My stock of forma says that this is false.

I run unrefined relics with formas in the common drop pool to refill my traces and keep topped up quite nicely with forma

RNG is RNG.

Today I ran 8 unrefined relic runs, all with Forma BPs as a common option. I got 0.

I ironically got 2 Valkyr Prime BPs, 1 Orthos Prime Blade, 1 Braton Prime Receiver, 2! Yes 2! Chrome Prime BPs, 1 Lex Prime Barrel, & 1 Zephyr Prime Neuroptics

I logged off after that. Ironically frustrated...

I swear. I could smash a Ferrite Cluster & it'd drop Orokin Cells instead of Ferrite at this point.

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20 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

This is false.
The majority of players who have 3 or more Forma just sitting in their inventory are Veteran players who have already Forma'd the bulk of their inventory & have no use for it.
Generally Forma is used as quickly as it is acquired. Although I guess now it's best to wait to use Forma, not Forma as needed for progression.

Me for example. At this point I would be using Forma just to use it. I don't have anything atm that needs a Forma.
So this is a waste. The only thing I managed to scrounge up was my Helminth Charger who needs 1 final Forma.
Guess I should just start Forma my Ash or another frame till I get to 100? Just for the sake of a challenge?
I passed this week.

It is a bad challenge. Newer players cannot afford to even craft 3 Forma until they reach Saturn (Ceres resources are few & far between).
Also, crafting 3 Forma takes 72hrs tops. As of right now 5/16/19 if a player is just now crafting their 3 Forma they are out of luck. Challenge Failed.

For a veteran, you definitely underestimate Ceres or Assassination nodes for that matter. Also, people tend to build them regularly and use them as frequently as possible, maybe not those that are just accessing Saturn, but a good majority does, not to mention that Saturn is covered quite early, in the first few weeks, if not less.

Also, you added that 72hr total waiting period as if you cannot do anything while those Formas get built. Fine, than you have to wait 72hrs out of 168hrs, which means that you simply need to gather a total of at least 3 blueprints and remember to access the mobile application (you do not even have to open the PC to collect them) once in up to 2 days for each. Once done, simply open Warframe and place those Formas however you wish to and you're done. But oh no, the new players are not able to do that. Stop treating the newer players as if they're idiots.

At last, no, if they didn't consider the Forma challenge until now, than simply hop on trade chat and collect 35p. Done. Trading exists and at some point every player will go through it more or less for the same reason.

20 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Co-op or not. The "with a Friend/Clanmate" challenges only succeeded in creating false friendships, & temporary (join me just so we can get this over with) friends.
If Warframe wants to promote it's co-op aspect then it needs to make co-op an organic & fun experience. Not shove it down player's throats.
Whenever any game shoves/forces things down on the players they naturally resist it.
Also, the with a friend/clanmate did block people capable of doing said challenges who actually wanted to complete them, from completing them. (IE: Profit Taker; I have friends who could maybe do it...but none have reached Old Mate yet. So no Bueno for me. Atleast with the Hydrolyst I could carry em through it.)
Add in that Warframe prides itself on being accessible to both Solo players & co-op players. So such challenges create a contradiction in gameplay.

I actually like Nightwave. However, I will keep fighting to ensure it's accessible, fair, & sane.
As I said many times in this thread. I'm skipping the Forma Challenge, & the Sortie Challenge this week. The rest I've already knocked out.

Moving forward (into Season 2) I personally am locked out of the Forma challenges because until I get some new weapon I feel is worth a Forma, I have no reason to use a Forma.
However, I'm fine with that. I am NOT fine with the newer players I know feeling forced into burning their meager resources on Forma BPs, or feeling strong armed into buying a Forma Bundle because of a Challenge. I told all of them to skip it.
One of them absolutely HAS to do it to get the Wolf Armor. So for him, Rank 30 costs 35p. No way around it at this point. That's not good design.

Most people already do those events with a friend, clan mate, recruit chat invitee or pub. It is already part of the experience, therefore, how hard can it honestly be to wait for someone or add someone to finish the challenge. And yes, IT IS STILL ACCESSIBLE TO SOLO PLAYERS, YOU GET THOSE ONE OF THOSE CHALLENGES ONCE WEEK OR ONCE EVERY TWO WEEKS, NOT TO MENTION THAT YOU ONLY NEED TO COMPLETE 60%, WHICH MEANS THAT YOU CAN DELIBERATELY SKIP ALL OF THEM AND MORE.

Also, the simple act of recruiting someone has been done so many times before with Raids, Eidolon Hunts, Ressource Farming squads, Prime Parts farmers, etc. The only thing you need to do extra is add someone as a friend, which you can later remove should you wish to, nobody actually cares. But of course, muh convenience...

"Meager reasources" - It is literally a grinding game, and if Forma is that hard to come by, boy oh boy, how much they are going to love the Sibear, or maybe the lab weapons, not to mention Equinox (thankfully for them, the Prime version exists) and i'm sure i'd be able to come up with many more examples. If Forma is that hard to come by, than they have definitely picked the wrong game anyways, since they won't enjoy at all what's there to come.

Also, the pal you have mentioned with the Rank 30, which "costs him 35p" (definitely does not), that's a him problem, he picked Nightwave way too late. And no, it does not cost him 35p. Again, he had a whole week to built them, what was he waiting for? No to mention that by week 6, the hardcore players were already done and we're in week 11, don't tell me that it is that unfair.

20 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

This is personal values here.
Not everyone is ok with fake friends, or using other players as tools. If you're only adding a player to complete a challenge then are not someone you are cooperating with, they are a means to an end. A tool to fulfil a job.
I'm not the most social guy but I refuse to use others like that. To my surprise a larger percentage of the Warframe community shares this sentiment. Which is surprising.

Stop bullS#&$ting with the fake friends statement. All a player has to do, is to advertise on Region Chat that he is interested in finishing the "complete with a friend challenge", just as you would with an efficient farming squad or eidolon hunt squad. Should a second player be interested, he messages the first player and informs him about his interest. They add each other and do the challenge. Once done, they both write "gg" and part their ways happy that they've done the challenge, which was the common understanding from the very beginning.

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26 minutes ago, ErzaSakuretto said:

For a veteran, you definitely underestimate Ceres or Assassination nodes for that matter. Also, people tend to build them regularly and use them as frequently as possible

The Materials Ceres has for Forma are more plentiful on Saturn. You can do 20+ runs on Ceres & never see an Orokin Cell. That was the point.
Thank you for mentioning that people build forma and use them frequently. That is a major reason why this challenge has the backlash it's getting.
Many players build Forma as needed, and use it immediately. They do not sit on it.

You are within your rights to be OK with wasting 3 Forma. Others are not. You say just open up the game & use the Forma. If nothing needs Forma, then why?
That's amazingly ignorant. For 3k Standing? Not worth it. Hell, using just 1 Forma for a measly 3k is laughable in "my" book. But I'm not one to waste resources.

33 minutes ago, ErzaSakuretto said:

"Meager reasources" - It is literally a grinding game, and if Forma is that hard to come by, boy oh boy, how much they are going to love the Sibear, or maybe the lab weapons,

It is a grinding game, and look at the attitude the playerbase has shown towards Sibear & the infamous Hema.
Just because it is a grinding game doesn't mean that cost of some items is acceptable & should be tolerated. If people do not speak up then positive change will not take place.
Not everyone is submissive & is willing to just roll over & accept bad design.

35 minutes ago, ErzaSakuretto said:

Also, the pal you have mentioned with the Rank 30, which "costs him 35p" (definitely does not), that's a him problem, he picked Nightwave way too late. And no, it does not cost him 35p. Again, he had a whole week to built them, what was he waiting for? No to mention that by week 6, the hardcore players were already done and we're in week 11, don't tell me that it is that unfair.

Yup, you are absolutely right. I will go ahead & inform him that it is his fault that his job & family obligations that only allow him to play the game 2 or 3 days a week is on him.
That he needs to ignore his family obligations & focus on Warframe, grind his reputations, speed through his questlines, & power level his MR. Cause Warframe comes first, not Real Life. Got it. (See, I can be snarky& belligerently irrational too.)

40 minutes ago, ErzaSakuretto said:

All a player has to do, is to advertise on Region Chat that he is interested in finishing the "complete with a friend challenge", just as you would with an efficient farming squad or eidolon hunt squad.

Got it. Recruit people, complete challenge then delete them. In other words...use the other people as tools/a means to the end. So...Fake Friends.
The process you detaield is the very definition of: "Using People" "Fake Friends"
You're not befriending anyone. You literally are using them.
If you can't see that then you are hopeless.

DE's intention with the challenge was to create, foster, and encourage new friendships.
What you detailed is the unintended result from the challenge. No friendships were made.
Just a whole lot of forced interaction that didn't need to be forced in the first place.

46 minutes ago, ErzaSakuretto said:

IT IS STILL ACCESSIBLE TO SOLO PLAYERS, YOU GET THOSE ONE OF THOSE CHALLENGES ONCE WEEK OR ONCE EVERY TWO WEEKS, NOT TO MENTION THAT YOU ONLY NEED TO COMPLETE 60%, WHICH MEANS THAT YOU CAN DELIBERATELY SKIP ALL OF THEM AND MORE.

You really are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
For folks who play at odd hours, and for content locked/gated behind Reputation grinds. The challenges were off limits.
You underestimate how many people are not Old Mate with Fortuna.

Also, just because a challenge can be skipped doesn't mean feedback should not be given.
My god, your mentality is: "You can just skip it. So it's perfectly fine."
A badly designed piece of content is badly designed. Feedback needs to be given, and in time (just like the with a friend limitation being removed in Season 2) the content will be improved.
If everyone followed your advice. Season 2 would be EXACTLY like Season 1. Flawed, tedious, & burn out inducing.

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13 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

1. Aura Formas were not a thing when NW started.  That may be added in during NW Season 2 but for this season, it wasn't.  If you have nothing to Forma, and you thus have no NEED for any forma you HAVE, then you should have no issue "Forma'ing a check back to a check" 3 times over the course of a full WEEK to get the measly 3000 standing.  

Or, ya know...You can skip it =_= as DE has said SO many times!  

You can't call it a money grab if there ARE "easy ways around it", and  even then, there is NOTHING wrong with a FREE game -hoping- you spend a few bucks here or there. They have to incentivise spending SOMEWHERE, and y'all keep complaining when they do!  Like you expect this whole game to be free all the time , and for DE to just pay for their food and shelter with "good will" and forum rep?

Get off YOUR horse, already...

It DOESN'T appear each week, so let's not demonize them for something they didn't actually do, first of all.

Second, it is not up to DE to "make everyone care".  They put the content out there.  It's up to YOU to either care or choose not to.

So, again....are you making excuses, or do you want to succeed in NightWave?  If you don't, fine, but plenty of people have done so with very little effort (myself included) so it's more than doable.

you totally miss the point
its not each week but try to read and understand 
IF there was use 3 formas challenge each week
AND IF in place of that challenge use 3 formas each week was kill phorid 3 times just (for example)
what you think players would choose and why?

its not about how often it is its not about how many formas u need to use its about what challenge asks as to do

and damn i give you 100% being right here
we can just skip things we dont like
but plz answer this to every1 here and in a 1st place to yourself
is it good idea to create challenges that players will skip?

someone took their time to create content for us its someones work
its not created for us to skip it
imagine if not half but lets say 30% of playerbase would skip on like 60% of warframes i dont mean dont play them but i mean dont even try to get them at all
just because they decide they can skip them or same analogy with weapons
would that be good?

look forma challenge is not a bad thing any1 can do it with little effort its not hard to get forma from relics and use it 3 times
but this challenge could be replaced with so many user friendly challenges like for EXAMPLE 
complete ODD protecting cryopod at least 30 mins
or complete survival on ophelia saturn staying in missions for at least 30 mins

this would be 1 of best challenges of nw and ppl would not tell others you dont like it then skip it
you know why? because by participating in that challenges you would get resources that are useful for any1 
and not wasting formas just for sake of wasting formas

content in game should be attractive for players to experience it and not giving them pain in the back

i personally dont need anything from warframe anymore
i have all weapons and warframes i have like 6k of energy restore large and around 5k ciphers crafted already

i dont need to farm anything but if i could choose a type of challenge i can do each week or each 4 weeks i would prefer that one where it asks me to go farm something somewhere which can be useful for me in the future if not right at the moment of getting it
instead of challenge where i trow 3 items i collected which in natural fashion takes 72h to make

if you dont see that content should be designed in a way we want to experience it and not in a way we even consider skipping it
nothing i write here can make u understand it

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8 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

you totally miss the point
its not each week but try to read and understand 
IF there was use 3 formas challenge each week
AND IF in place of that challenge use 3 formas each week was kill phorid 3 times just (for example)
what you think players would choose and why?

its not about how often it is its not about how many formas u need to use its about what challenge asks as to do

and damn i give you 100% being right here
we can just skip things we dont like
but plz answer this to every1 here and in a 1st place to yourself
is it good idea to create challenges that players will skip?

someone took their time to create content for us its someones work
its not created for us to skip it
imagine if not half but lets say 30% of playerbase would skip on like 60% of warframes i dont mean dont play them but i mean dont even try to get them at all
just because they decide they can skip them or same analogy with weapons
would that be good?

look forma challenge is not a bad thing any1 can do it with little effort its not hard to get forma from relics and use it 3 times
but this challenge could be replaced with so many user friendly challenges like for EXAMPLE 
complete ODD protecting cryopod at least 30 mins
or complete survival on ophelia saturn staying in missions for at least 30 mins

this would be 1 of best challenges of nw and ppl would not tell others you dont like it then skip it
you know why? because by participating in that challenges you would get resources that are useful for any1 
and not wasting formas just for sake of wasting formas

content in game should be attractive for players to experience it and not giving them pain in the back

i personally dont need anything from warframe anymore
i have all weapons and warframes i have like 6k of energy restore large and around 5k ciphers crafted already

i dont need to farm anything but if i could choose a type of challenge i can do each week or each 4 weeks i would prefer that one where it asks me to go farm something somewhere which can be useful for me in the future if not right at the moment of getting it
instead of challenge where i trow 3 items i collected which in natural fashion takes 72h to make

if you dont see that content should be designed in a way we want to experience it and not in a way we even consider skipping it
nothing i write here can make u understand it

Alright, "Use 3 Forma" is not "content", it's a challenge...to motivate the player to engage OTHER content.  You're not skipping a cutscene, a level, some specific battle, or anything by avoiding the challenge..You're just choosing to not take up that specific challenge.  Much like how many people do not take up the "challenge" of playing Lunaro or Conclave.

Warframe provides options.  It's good at that.  Noone created any "new content" by challenging you to "Use 3 Forma".  The 3 Forma are already there, you could already use them. Nothing new was added to the game.  It was just a "Hey, you should try _______.  I'll give you xp if you do!"  That's it.

If people were FORCED to do -every- challenge, there'd be an issue...but noone is, and thus there is no issue.

Also, they don't need to replace the Forma with any other challenge.  There is no law that states "X Challenge must be removed to add another!"  They can have the Forma challenge AND Phorid.  Doesn't need to be an either/or scenario.

Finally, your "what if" is a complete non-existent hypothetical...  That's fine and dandy, but you cannot rate or hold against someone something they've never actually done.  You can't say "Well, I mean..what if he DID beat his wife?  Would you still buy coffee at his shop?"  Like of course not, but "he" didn't, and there's nothing to suggest that was ever an issue....so why say it like it is?

The fact of the matter is DE did -not- have the Forma challenge every week.  So let's not start holding them accountable for things they've not done.

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39 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Alright, "Use 3 Forma" is not "content", it's a challenge...to motivate the player to engage OTHER content.  You're not skipping a cutscene, a level, some specific battle, or anything by avoiding the challenge..You're just choosing to not take up that specific challenge.  Much like how many people do not take up the "challenge" of playing Lunaro or Conclave.

Warframe provides options.  It's good at that.  Noone created any "new content" by challenging you to "Use 3 Forma".  The 3 Forma are already there, you could already use them. Nothing new was added to the game.  It was just a "Hey, you should try _______.  I'll give you xp if you do!"  That's it.

If people were FORCED to do -every- challenge, there'd be an issue...but noone is, and thus there is no issue.

Also, they don't need to replace the Forma with any other challenge.  There is no law that states "X Challenge must be removed to add another!"  They can have the Forma challenge AND Phorid.  Doesn't need to be an either/or scenario.

Finally, your "what if" is a complete non-existent hypothetical...  That's fine and dandy, but you cannot rate or hold against someone something they've never actually done.  You can't say "Well, I mean..what if he DID beat his wife?  Would you still buy coffee at his shop?"  Like of course not, but "he" didn't, and there's nothing to suggest that was ever an issue....so why say it like it is?

The fact of the matter is DE did -not- have the Forma challenge every week.  So let's not start holding them accountable for things they've not done.

part with use 3 formas each week was just an example and i stated it clearly 

and seems you still miss the point
you talk about options you talk about players are not forced and you insist on fact it dont need any replacement
and well i can agree with u all the way

but just for a second wonder consider or even just think about the fact if 90% of nightmare challenges will be so stupid or annoying so players will skip them
then whats the point of them?

but if we have different challenges which would make every1 happy and players would not even think to skip them
would that not be a good reason to reconsider what types of challenges are served each week?

and if you still dont get it its like your mom makes u breakfast each day lets say bacon eggs bread and tea
and you would eat bread and bacon but would skip on eggs and tea

then what would be next logical move from your mother?
would she keep sacrificing her time to prepare 2 ingredients of your breakfast that you wont even touch
or would change what she serves you each morning so u eat and drink it all?

idk is it so hard to understand or what?

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28 minutes ago, ZeroZX4 said:

part with use 3 formas each week was just an example and i stated it clearly 

and seems you still miss the point
you talk about options you talk about players are not forced and you insist on fact it dont need any replacement
and well i can agree with u all the way

but just for a second wonder consider or even just think about the fact if 90% of nightmare challenges will be so stupid or annoying so players will skip them
then whats the point of them?

but if we have different challenges which would make every1 happy and players would not even think to skip them
would that not be a good reason to reconsider what types of challenges are served each week?

and if you still dont get it its like your mom makes u breakfast each day lets say bacon eggs bread and tea
and you would eat bread and bacon but would skip on eggs and tea

then what would be next logical move from your mother?
would she keep sacrificing her time to prepare 2 ingredients of your breakfast that you wont even touch
or would change what she serves you each morning so u eat and drink it all?

idk is it so hard to understand or what?

Did you maybe miss the part where DE ("mom") already reviewed Season 1 and DID adjust things? ("tea and bread").   

The problem with what you're asserting here, however, is that you're assuming because YOU (or others here on the forums) find certain challenges "no fun", that that then somehow represents ALL players, or even the majority, and it doesn't.  

Only DE knows how many people engaged with what challenges. They have the metrics, and they've made adjustments accordingly. 

There is no way to make a "one-size-fits-all" challenge that everyone will enjoy.  Some people will simply hate them no matter what because they ask that person to do more than login and afk...and some "players" don't like that.

Personally, I found the challenges a great excuse to try things or get back into things I'd not touched in awhile.

In your example, it'd be like our "mom" changing the flavor of the tea, or perhaps us ourselves trying to eat the eggs ON the bread instead of separate.  Revisiting old ingredients in a new way.  We have the tools, they gave us the excuse. 

 

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14 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Did you maybe miss the part where DE ("mom") already reviewed Season 1 and DID adjust things? ("tea and bread").   

The problem with what you're asserting here, however, is that you're assuming because YOU (or others here on the forums) find certain challenges "no fun", that that then somehow represents ALL players, or even the majority, and it doesn't.  

Only DE knows how many people engaged with what challenges. They have the metrics, and they've made adjustments accordingly. 

There is no way to make a "one-size-fits-all" challenge that everyone will enjoy.  Some people will simply hate them no matter what because they ask that person to do more than login and afk...and some "players" don't like that.

Personally, I found the challenges a great excuse to try things or get back into things I'd not touched in awhile.

In your example, it'd be like our "mom" changing the flavor of the tea, or perhaps us ourselves trying to eat the eggs ON the bread instead of separate.  Revisiting old ingredients in a new way.  We have the tools, they gave us the excuse. 

 

there for sure are types of challenges all or at least most of us do and dont complain about so if de have metrics and know what ppl skip and what not
why not expand challenges that all or most of us do instead of shoving there challenges some or most of us skip?

so in other words mom knows what her children already like and what not
so she would go for preparing breakfast of food all of her kids will eat and wont consider skipping it

and dont bs urself or any1 here de know exactly that most players dont want 3formas challenge since its waste of resource

and if you think im wrong well look at nw complains
did u see any1 complain about kill 150 enemies with certain damage type or primary or secondary or melee?

or help clem or complete 3 exterminations sabotage or mobile def? well i sure didnt

so if there are challenges that every1 or most of us accept and dont see problem with dealing with
just think why there are challenges after as u say "DE ("mom") already reviewed Season 1 and DID adjust things"
she left things ppl dont like instead of expanding what ppl like?

idk if u are aware but u are defending statement that in nw there should be some challenges that ppl will skip
and that its ok and better than if de would change that challenges so they apply to more or all players

its like literally you say "hey de i know some players wont do it but keep challenge X in game instead of replacing it with challenge Y which all players would do"

idk whats your logic behind it
but from any angle i try to look at it thats not user friendly

you dont need to care about any player or his or hers experience in the game same as i or any1 else can just dont care about some or all nw challenges
but lets be clear on 1 thing here are you really trying to say that its better to have some part of the game being skipped by some players and that is better instead of simple replacing it with something different
something that every1 would enjoy?

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On 2019-05-13 at 6:36 AM, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

To be honest I don't use the simulacrum much, and I believe that no, we cannot freely use forma to "simulate" there, even though I agree we should be able to test builds and gear that way.

But that the NW challenge implies it, that it does. So I'm nearly as confused as you, but too lazy to find out if I'm wrong in assuming we actually cannot freely simulate builds.

Furthermore I'm surprised this challenge seems like it's staying for Season 2, along with the gilding one. Truly the worst challenges for me, and I'm including all the grindy/hated/unwanted challenges in season 1 in that comparison.

Are you kidding me? This takes 10 min in hydron and 10 plat assuming you buy bundles. If you can't buy bundles then how do you even breathe because that is like being too poor to own a penny.

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18 minutes ago, Psykhe27 said:

Are you kidding me? This takes 10 min in hydron and 10 plat assuming you buy bundles. If you can't buy bundles then how do you even breathe because that is like being too poor to own a penny.

Not only are you late for the party, what you say even lacks cleverness. For starters, plat is not as cheap as on PC, so you forgot that other players with different realities exist. Then, you also center it around yourself by assuming me, or even the Devs, want people to use Hydron as a main leveling site instead of actually playing the game naturally.

Then you might have read me saying I mostly didn't mind the season 1 challenges, and these 2 were just the ones I disliked the most, and that if others were removed so should these (imo). I'm also curious to see where I'd get 10p forma bundles, since they cost 35p on consoles and discounts do not apply. Or why you'd think me, a bored veteran, would subject myself to level weapons I don't need, just to forma them on something as boring as hydron. Or why would I destroy gear I already perfected because of a challenge?  There's also the added issue that challenges will weight more individually on season 2, so skipping this one means a bigger loss of points.

So all in all, I rather not do it, and there's no biggie there. My issue with these challenges is related to other stuff.

My point is that these challenges, compared to most others, are a waste of time and effort. And currently I have 47 forma and counting, all from building so I don't even need to buy any packs since I have all gear maxed and forma'd, and my forma usage is 700+, not including gear I forma'd and deleted. I also have platinum to spare since I've bought most of what I wanted already, Tennogen included, which also costs plat for me. So it's not about being "poor". It's about consistency and being reasonable towards players.

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On 2019-05-17 at 12:25 PM, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

The Materials Ceres has for Forma are more plentiful on Saturn. You can do 20+ runs on Ceres & never see an Orokin Cell. That was the point.

1. I honestly urge you to do a few assassination runs on Ceres while destroying containers on the way. Please provide results after, should you decide to do it.

2. It is possible to do 20+ runs for an item with a drop chance of 99% and never get. Stupidly unlikely, but it is possible, you've basically just described RNG.

3. Platinum is easy to come by, not to mention that you only pay 35p. While a newer player might have difficulties because of other costs (which is a topic actually worth providing feedback for, not that the "3 Forma" challenge and "Play with a friend" are too hard for casuals), a newer players also tends to do more relics runs than a supposed "veteran".

On 2019-05-17 at 12:25 PM, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Thank you for mentioning that people build forma and use them frequently. That is a major reason why this challenge has the backlash it's getting.
Many players build Forma as needed, and use it immediately. They do not sit on it.

1. Than what's the problem? As you have confirmed, they use them frequently, which means that there's a constant stream of forma being purchased or built, which further means, that it should not be hard to cover a damn 3 forma challenge.

2. Many players also tend to built them preemptively, since they're such a core part of the game and yes, people actually sit on it, that's one of the main things you learn in Warframe.

On 2019-05-17 at 12:25 PM, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

You are within your rights to be OK with wasting 3 Forma. Others are not. You say just open up the game & use the Forma. If nothing needs Forma, then why?
That's amazingly ignorant. For 3k Standing? Not worth it. Hell, using just 1 Forma for a measly 3k is laughable in "my" book. But I'm not one to waste resources.

1. Now you're telling me that 3k does not mean jackS#&$ and you are right, you can get a total 40-50k per week. So what's the problem?

2. There are 358 weapons alone (but let's reduce it to 250 for the sake of it) and tenno reinforcements are on the way. If you feel like you end up wasting forma, than you are either some sort of "one-trick pony" or you are at the point where 3k won't matter anyway, which you've right.

On 2019-05-17 at 12:25 PM, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

It is a grinding game, and look at the attitude the playerbase has shown towards Sibear & the infamous Hema.
Just because it is a grinding game doesn't mean that cost of some items is acceptable & should be tolerated. If people do not speak up then positive change will not take place.
Not everyone is submissive & is willing to just roll over & accept bad design.

1. You've completely missed the point of that comparisons. The idea was to compare a very tolerable farm to something almost outrageous and how fellow tenno's that find Forma farming hard won't stand a chance.

2. Suddenly farming Forma is a bad design? Or is it just the weapons? One is completely manageable, while the other is a completely different matter.

On 2019-05-17 at 12:25 PM, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Yup, you are absolutely right. I will go ahead & inform him that it is his fault that his job & family obligations that only allow him to play the game 2 or 3 days a week is on him.
That he needs to ignore his family obligations & focus on Warframe, grind his reputations, speed through his questlines, & power level his MR. Cause Warframe comes first, not Real Life. Got it. (See, I can be snarky& belligerently irrational too.)

1, It took me 1 to 2 days each week to get the challenges done (mainly during the weekends).

2. How much did it actually take you to reach rank 30 and by which week did you manage it. Honest response.

3. It's still is a him problem, he literally has 2 options: start building forma by thursday, or pay 35p, which you can trade for anyways, even though most people don't even have to.

4. Just because you've met a more "unfortunate" case (which is not by no stretch of the imagination), does not mean that everyone actually went through the same ordeal ("spent all of his saving" on a forma bundle).

5. It kinda gets to you when everyone just complains about stupid stuff, like spending 3 formas in a week or inviting someone to play with.

On 2019-05-17 at 12:25 PM, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Got it. Recruit people, complete challenge then delete them. In other words...use the other people as tools/a means to the end. So...Fake Friends.
The process you detaield is the very definition of: "Using People" "Fake Friends"
You're not befriending anyone. You literally are using them.
If you can't see that then you are hopeless.

DE's intention with the challenge was to create, foster, and encourage new friendships.
What you detailed is the unintended result from the challenge. No friendships were made.
Just a whole lot of forced interaction that didn't need to be forced in the first place.

1. I want you to tell me how exactly you are using them, how exactly it affects them and how come they did not most probably just joined to complete the challenge.

2. They only way they'd actually get used, would be if the host promises more than 1 mission together to complete a challenge, spot which will most probably be occupied by someone else that has the same intentions (to complete the "play with friend" challenge).

3. That may be one of the most "snowflake-y" thing I've heard this week.

4. Just because you have the option to delete them afterwards, does not mean that you have to. Just because I've provided you with a potential solution that should cover absolutely everyone, does not mean that you have to follow it step by step. If someone tells you to jump out the window, do you actually jump? It is meant to cover a point for even the most solo self-found players out there. It does not mean that you cannot befriend everyone that you meet. Why the #*!% did you thing that I have specifically said "SHOULD YOU WISH TO". You're treating it as the only outcome, just to hopelessly cover a point you could not make in the first part.

On 2019-05-17 at 12:25 PM, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

You really are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
For folks who play at odd hours, and for content locked/gated behind Reputation grinds. The challenges were off limits.
You underestimate how many people are not Old Mate with Fortuna.

Also, just because a challenge can be skipped doesn't mean feedback should not be given.
My god, your mentality is: "You can just skip it. So it's perfectly fine."
A badly designed piece of content is badly designed. Feedback needs to be given, and in time (just like the with a friend limitation being removed in Season 2) the content will be improved.
If everyone followed your advice. Season 2 would be EXACTLY like Season 1. Flawed, tedious, & burn out inducing.

1. A week can net you up to 43k. 300k is required in total to get everything. Less than 7 weeks to complete everything, without the bonuses from NPC's. Season 1 seems to be lasting more than 11 weeks. The minimum amount you need to cover every week to stay on track (linear progress; 11 weeks), would be 27-28k. You can skip 15k worth of challenges every week, even more if you make-up a week after or you have preemptively gather more a week before.

2. We are talking about the forma challenge and the play with a friend challenge.

3. The only feedback you have provided so far is that the forma challenge and the play with the friend challenge are tedious. Not that you have to guild a weapon (long after it is not relevant anymore), not that you have to hunt Ayatan treasure, or that you may be locked out of the sorties 5k mark before the week actually ends. You have been basically stating that 2 of the most logical and easiest challenges from a gameplay point of view are too tedious. You are basically being asked to play the game as you most probably would have played it anyways, but somehow that is too tedious? I am all for adjusting some of the challenges, but not those that reward you for simply playing the game. In cases of perhaps conservation challenges, it may be better to adjust them, but in case of forma challenge, simply provide the player with the option to skip it, which they have done already for such cases.

4. My advice is to not #*!%ing change something that actually makes a lot of #*!%ing sense from a gameplay point of view.

5. What #*!%ing challenge requires you to be Old Mate?

6. Rank 30 was intended for dedicated players from the get-go anyways. 3k for 3 Forma is one of the fairest challenges there is, just as 5k is basically for free, only that you might have to wait for someone to play with.

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Don't forget we got 3 forma as reward (maybe 6) in Nightwave reward,  without counting the umbra (wich i'll not have since i'm come back into the game since like 2 week) , so it's not like it was a forma you crafted or buy.


Of cours it wasn't the best idea for a challenge , and i was lucky cuz i'm the middle of a new build so i'm ok with that , but yeah it's not cool to ask us that and in the same time they didn't ask you 5000 mutagen mass.

(ok , they did , but not for NW :clem: )

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16 hours ago, ZeroZX4 said:

there for sure are types of challenges all or at least most of us do and dont complain about so if de have metrics and know what ppl skip and what not
why not expand challenges that all or most of us do instead of shoving there challenges some or most of us skip?

so in other words mom knows what her children already like and what not
so she would go for preparing breakfast of food all of her kids will eat and wont consider skipping it

and dont bs urself or any1 here de know exactly that most players dont want 3formas challenge since its waste of resource

and if you think im wrong well look at nw complains
did u see any1 complain about kill 150 enemies with certain damage type or primary or secondary or melee?

or help clem or complete 3 exterminations sabotage or mobile def? well i sure didnt

so if there are challenges that every1 or most of us accept and dont see problem with dealing with
just think why there are challenges after as u say "DE ("mom") already reviewed Season 1 and DID adjust things"
she left things ppl dont like instead of expanding what ppl like?

idk if u are aware but u are defending statement that in nw there should be some challenges that ppl will skip
and that its ok and better than if de would change that challenges so they apply to more or all players

its like literally you say "hey de i know some players wont do it but keep challenge X in game instead of replacing it with challenge Y which all players would do"

idk whats your logic behind it
but from any angle i try to look at it thats not user friendly

you dont need to care about any player or his or hers experience in the game same as i or any1 else can just dont care about some or all nw challenges
but lets be clear on 1 thing here are you really trying to say that its better to have some part of the game being skipped by some players and that is better instead of simple replacing it with something different
something that every1 would enjoy?

One major flaw in your view (and there are several) is that "all players" enjoy the same things, which they don't.

Another glaring flaw in your POV is that somehow the small, and I do mean SMALL, handful of players on these here forums somehow represent the opinions of the "majority" of the playerbase.   This thread, and many like it, barely involve "hundreds" of different, unique users... and that's not even a statistical drop in the well that is the 30 MILLION+ playerbase.

Now, to address your first question based on the continued use  of the "mom" example...
...Mom knows kids don't like broccoli.  She continues feeding it to them despite their objections because she knows that it's healthy, and is needed in their diet, and she has EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE that comes from the combination of life experience and her unique perspective that the kids are too inexperienced, young, or simply unable to comprehend from where they stand.....and so she understands that kids may not see the "value" in consuming something necessary, like vegetables, but just because the kids don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

 In other words, DE pushes us to dump old resources so we continue to farm to replace them.  This promotes more playing of the game, which is good for usage statistics (which helps keep money coming from investors, and thus keeps Warframe alive), helps keep players interacting with NEW players,  which is good for player retention, which AGAIN helps statistics and thus revenue....and it also, sometimes, has the fringe benefit of incentivising the purchase of Forma Bundles from the Plat store (mind you, they even GIVE you a 3 Forma pack for FREE during NW)...which AGAAAAAAAAIN helps to keep the lights on at DE.

You ASSUME that because YOU don't like the Forma challenge, that YOUR opinion is equal to ALL of the usage data that DE sees, and they somehow "neglect" that...

When the must more reasonable and logical assumption would be that YOUR ASSUMPTION is incorrect, and in fact DE IS acknowledging the data...but that data differs from what you THINK it might be.

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14 hours ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Not only are you late for the party, what you say even lacks cleverness. For starters, plat is not as cheap as on PC, so you forgot that other players with different realities exist. Then, you also center it around yourself by assuming me, or even the Devs, want people to use Hydron as a main leveling site instead of actually playing the game naturally.

Then you might have read me saying I mostly didn't mind the season 1 challenges, and these 2 were just the ones I disliked the most, and that if others were removed so should these (imo). I'm also curious to see where I'd get 10p forma bundles, since they cost 35p on consoles and discounts do not apply. Or why you'd think me, a bored veteran, would subject myself to level weapons I don't need, just to forma them on something as boring as hydron. Or why would I destroy gear I already perfected because of a challenge?  There's also the added issue that challenges will weight more individually on season 2, so skipping this one means a bigger loss of points.

So all in all, I rather not do it, and there's no biggie there. My issue with these challenges is related to other stuff.

My point is that these challenges, compared to most others, are a waste of time and effort. And currently I have 47 forma and counting, all from building so I don't even need to buy any packs since I have all gear maxed and forma'd, and my forma usage is 700+, not including gear I forma'd and deleted. I also have platinum to spare since I've bought most of what I wanted already, Tennogen included, which also costs plat for me. So it's not about being "poor". It's about consistency and being reasonable towards players.

Noone said you needed to level said weapons. .. Just use Forma on them 3 times.  So you could, in theory, pull some MR "fodder" out of storage, 3 of 'em (we've all got some, ESPECIALLY if you're claiming to be a "bored vet") and hit 'em with 3 of your forma.  Then , if you even care to re-level them, do so at your leisure.

You're all making way too much out of this simple challenge...that is completely skippable.

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I know we all have different agendas in this game. We all have something different we want to do, but heres a little story to explain how I ran things for some of this week. And bare in mind while the actual specifics may have been not my original choice, in general this is how I would have played warframe this week even if nightwave didnt exist.

 

Its the week before baro get here so I need to run some fissures. Hmmm... I may as well tick off the nightwave as I do it so ill run 3 fissure mobile defence, spy and exterminate missions, and maybe 3 sabotage missions if the right location comes up for easy cache finding (I'll be honest here I  wouldnt ordinarily look out the caches). 

And while im at it i will set my corinth damage to whatever the nightwave daily is asking as a damage type and tick that off too, and the primary weapon kills.

Then I run some fissures and take the good rewards that pay good ducs but sure as eggs is eggs there will be forma BPs as a best options, so ill earn 3 replacement forma right there.

Then I'll apply my formas, but as it just so happens this week my mesa prime is ready, so may as well get her levelled up. so I run the usual levelling up and it just so happens that I get 1500 kills along the way so theres another nightwave done.

Then sorties. I am not a mad keen sortie runner but I do an odd one or two per week so not much of a stretch to do 3, so theres another done.

The same goes for the clem mission. A few more clem bots is always useful.

And thats about it for me. By and large thats what I would have done anyway. Maybe the specifics are different but it hasnt been much of a chore to pick what helps nightwave missions.  I have not made any real effort to do all the missions, but as an average over the weeks its been running I have done more than I need and am well into prestige levels because you just cant have enough nitain (although Ive got more than 50 now which may be enough).

I completely agree that some of the individual missions are poorly perceived (40 wave defense missions with friends for example - who runs 40 wave defense for fun?). And some are just not on my radar like the hydrolast hunter which is something I have never got in to although this week in my "spare" warframe time I have been giving some time to setting up my chroma prime tor eidonon hunting which in the grand scheme is not something I would do but isnt a bad thing to be doing as the rewards are pretty good.

I am just surprised by how much bad feeling there is towards nightwave and do feel i am in a minority to be actually thinking its a way better method of dishing out alert rewards than the random fixed missions we used to have. I for one have enjoyed nightwave and am looking forward to season 2.

 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Noone said you needed to level said weapons. .. Just use Forma on them 3 times.  So you could, in theory, pull some MR "fodder" out of storage, 3 of 'em (we've all got some, ESPECIALLY if you're claiming to be a "bored vet") and hit 'em with 3 of your forma.  Then , if you even care to re-level them, do so at your leisure.

You're all making way too much out of this simple challenge...that is completely skippable.

Read what I said again. You'll see how many points you missed, and how many wrong assumptions you've made. But I won't repeat what is just written above, I'll just ask this:

  • Why do they reward players with 3 forma just to make them a challenge where they make us spend those 3 forma?

And this:

All I said is an opinion. It's not necessarily right, but so is what you are saying, so please don't pretend to be in an imaginary high horse. That argument goes for everything, and by that logic they could have just left all challenges the way they were, which would have been fine with me, since all of them are optional in the end. Do you disagree? Good for you. Doesn't mean you're necessarily right, or that what you said is supposed to change my mind. So I'll stick to my main point: "I don't mind the challenges. But these ones, compared to others that were removed, are unnecessary and pointless". And DE had toned the grind down and has been reasonable about much sillier stuff, so I really don't see why this case in particular would be an exception.

I also noticed that many who are hell bent on defending the forma challenge also avoid talking about the the gilding challenge (which is called "selective argumenting") when both are usually paired up in discussions. I wonder if it is because there's no much argument to defend a challenge that ends up being like the forma one, but is even more useless for the majority.

Another point I did not make but it's still true is that it drives players into not formaing and enjoying their gear they were planning to perfect because they are afraid "next week" might be a forma challenge, and they forcefully wait instead of progressing. This also happens with the scupltures but not only was it reduced, there's also ways to farm them somewhat easily. Then there's the added fact that saying "forma some useless fodder and throw it away when done, just for the sake of the challenge" is no better than the old "Send a friend request to some random guy, do the challenge, and then delete the fake friend"; it's an easy solution, sure, but still a pointless and artificial one.

An extra thing I did not understand. "Formaing storage weapons". What do you mean by that? Weapons I have in my arsenal that are unforma'd? Because I have no such thing, and made that part clear, and will not forma my already perfect builds into ruining them. And I won't build weapons just to level and then forma. Which again, is mostly fine, but still doesn't make sense and I disagree.

Because being "a bored veteran" means the exact opposite of what you've implied; It means not only do I have most of my progression perfected and the way I want it to be, I won't subject myself to unneeded grind. As a veteran I play for fun, so I strongly dislike cheese tactics in my daily playstyle. Hydron included. I like to play the game naturally, while having fun. On the light hint of condescendence from your "veteranship" statement, and just in the off chance you assumed I'm one of those veterans who cry for endgame and challenge and how DE overlooks veterans (because I know there's some generalized hate for them, as there is for other specific annoying groups), you assume wrong. I'm quite in the opposite spectrum, and it's very easy to check if I'm telling te truth, to avoid unnecessary assumptions.

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As a new player (day 21, MR8), I'll say this:

I joined a little too late to hope for the 60% of Nightwave, and from day one I knew the precious value of Forma, hoarding 30+ blueprints on hand, and cooking a new one as soon as the last one is done. I've rarely been able to keep more than 2 or 3 built at any given time. That said, it was nice getting 3x Forma as a reward, and I used them up pretty quickly....then a few days later the weekly refresh happened and I saw this challenge and felt like crap, cuz I'd just used a bunch and had reached a spot where I could start stockpiling built ones.

I would rather have seen a challenge like "max rank 3 different weapons", but I had already set realistic goals for myself and planned out just how many wolf minions I'd need to kill for 50 standing each instead of using forma unnecessarily on fodder weapons that I was just leveling for MR anyway, and with dailies, I was able to make it to my milestone (NW level 11) without completing this specific challenge, since the next few levels of rewards to me are garbage and not something I'd care to try to get.

Of course, there were other challenges I avoided/expected not to be able to accomplish, such as 3x Sorties and Profit Taker. No way I had enough time based on my MR to accumulate enough standing to get to Old Mate, and I just unlocked The War Within in the last 24hrs. Thats with me pushing harder than most people can even afford the time to put in.

Same happened with Baro. He arrived shortly after I joined, and I didn't have enough credits or ducats to really get anything from him, but it was an opportunity to practice preplanning, and this time he showed up, I was able to acquire all 13 of the 25 items he was offering that I wanted. Likewise, I'll be far more prepared to take on the next season of Nightwave. Anything I may have missed during season 1, I can always trade relic loot for plat and buy it, just like the stuff I missed from Baro.

You win some, you lose some. It's the bad luck that makes the good luck that much more enjoyable. Meanwhile, this thread has derailed from the original question of the wording "not in simulacrum" that OP posed...which I must admit gave me the same impression: that one COULD use Forma in Sim, it just wouldn't count towards the challenge.

I still don't know if it's possible to, but this is a fun thread regardless.

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8 hours ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Read what I said again. You'll see how many points you missed, and how many wrong assumptions you've made. But I won't repeat what is just written above, I'll just ask this:

  • Why do they reward players with 3 forma just to make them a challenge where they make us spend those 3 forma?

And this:

All I said is an opinion. It's not necessarily right, but so is what you are saying, so please don't pretend to be in an imaginary high horse. That argument goes for everything, and by that logic they could have just left all challenges the way they were, which would have been fine with me, since all of them are optional in the end. Do you disagree? Good for you. Doesn't mean you're necessarily right, or that what you said is supposed to change my mind. So I'll stick to my main point: "I don't mind the challenges. But these ones, compared to others that were removed, are unnecessary and pointless". And DE had toned the grind down and has been reasonable about much sillier stuff, so I really don't see why this case in particular would be an exception.

I also noticed that many who are hell bent on defending the forma challenge also avoid talking about the the gilding challenge (which is called "selective argumenting") when both are usually paired up in discussions. I wonder if it is because there's no much argument to defend a challenge that ends up being like the forma one, but is even more useless for the majority.

Another point I did not make but it's still true is that it drives players into not formaing and enjoying their gear they were planning to perfect because they are afraid "next week" might be a forma challenge, and they forcefully wait instead of progressing. This also happens with the scupltures but not only was it reduced, there's also ways to farm them somewhat easily. Then there's the added fact that saying "forma some useless fodder and throw it away when done, just for the sake of the challenge" is no better than the old "Send a friend request to some random guy, do the challenge, and then delete the fake friend"; it's an easy solution, sure, but still a pointless and artificial one.

An extra thing I did not understand. "Formaing storage weapons". What do you mean by that? Weapons I have in my arsenal that are unforma'd? Because I have no such thing, and made that part clear, and will not forma my already perfect builds into ruining them. And I won't build weapons just to level and then forma. Which again, is mostly fine, but still doesn't make sense and I disagree.

Because being "a bored veteran" means the exact opposite of what you've implied; It means not only do I have most of my progression perfected and the way I want it to be, I won't subject myself to unneeded grind. As a veteran I play for fun, so I strongly dislike cheese tactics in my daily playstyle. Hydron included. I like to play the game naturally, while having fun. On the light hint of condescendence from your "veteranship" statement, and just in the off chance you assumed I'm one of those veterans who cry for endgame and challenge and how DE overlooks veterans (because I know there's some generalized hate for them, as there is for other specific annoying groups), you assume wrong. I'm quite in the opposite spectrum, and it's very easy to check if I'm telling te truth, to avoid unnecessary assumptions.

Wow, talk about making assumptions...  You clearly didn't read what I wrote.

I clearly stated WHY this one would be left in as opposed to other challenges.  In FACT, I gave THREE reasons...

As for "forma'ing fodder", I merely pointed out that it's not a hard task to do, and that you don't need to "spend so much time releveling 3 weapons!" because you and others complain about time investment for that +3k rep.  I'm pointing out it can be cleared in a matter of seconds.  What you forma or what you do with those weapons after that is on you.

Sending a friend request to a "fake friend" is not cheese, it's how you MEET people. I've never once said "and delete 'em afterwards".  If you're so opposed to interacting with other human beings, then idc if you delete me after a mission. I really don't.  I've got enough friends, I'm not lacking.  I don't care if you delete someone else, either.  FFS PUGs exist, ya know...I can find more people to run missions with...Ain't noone's feelings hurt.

I've stood up for the "Gilded Modular Weapons" challenge in past threads, too.  Don't try and force a perspective on me.  It's all meant to encourage players to  try out new content, or old content they've been neglecting.  Many players just go straight for the "meta" gear and don't REALIZE they can enjoy off-meta weapons TOO, because they just see the big numbers and assume, based on dumb youtubers and forum hate-posts, that everything else is "trash".   THIS challenge encourages them to pick something new up,  try it out, and hopefully they'll see "Oh, wow...this is totally viable ...and FUN!"  .....or they won't care, and nothing will change.  It isn't hurting anyone, either way.

If DE changed ANY challenges, I'm sure it was more "trimming fat" than it was "caving to demands of players", so chill.

Finally, I don't give an unholy crap that you're a veteran. I don't care if you've been playing for 1 day or 1000.  I don't.  Nobody does.  I play the game to enjoy -my- time, not yours, and I might play with friends or clanmates, as well.  but I don't do a friggin' background check before making squads, I don't check profiles before running missions, and I honestly am not going to dig through your old posts before replying.  ...I mean, y'all wanna complain about "time investment" but you'll waste so much time going on and on here on the forums and doing such things as these.  

Whatever, you do you.  I never claimed a high horse, I ain't trying to be on one. The ONLY reason I fight these friggin' posts on the forums is because I'm painfully aware of how many players NEVER get into Warframe because they read incorrect crap, or they read hateful OPINIONS that pose as FACTS, and they assume the game is bad because of it. 

I love Warframe, and I want others to experience it, as well.  I hate to see tiny issues (if issues at all) blown out of proportion to the point they put new players off.

5 hours ago, Vaeldious said:

As a new player (day 21, MR8), I'll say this:

I joined a little too late to hope for the 60% of Nightwave, and from day one I knew the precious value of Forma, hoarding 30+ blueprints on hand, and cooking a new one as soon as the last one is done. I've rarely been able to keep more than 2 or 3 built at any given time. That said, it was nice getting 3x Forma as a reward, and I used them up pretty quickly....then a few days later the weekly refresh happened and I saw this challenge and felt like crap, cuz I'd just used a bunch and had reached a spot where I could start stockpiling built ones.

I would rather have seen a challenge like "max rank 3 different weapons", but I had already set realistic goals for myself and planned out just how many wolf minions I'd need to kill for 50 standing each instead of using forma unnecessarily on fodder weapons that I was just leveling for MR anyway, and with dailies, I was able to make it to my milestone (NW level 11) without completing this specific challenge, since the next few levels of rewards to me are garbage and not something I'd care to try to get.

Of course, there were other challenges I avoided/expected not to be able to accomplish, such as 3x Sorties and Profit Taker. No way I had enough time based on my MR to accumulate enough standing to get to Old Mate, and I just unlocked The War Within in the last 24hrs. Thats with me pushing harder than most people can even afford the time to put in.

Same happened with Baro. He arrived shortly after I joined, and I didn't have enough credits or ducats to really get anything from him, but it was an opportunity to practice preplanning, and this time he showed up, I was able to acquire all 13 of the 25 items he was offering that I wanted. Likewise, I'll be far more prepared to take on the next season of Nightwave. Anything I may have missed during season 1, I can always trade relic loot for plat and buy it, just like the stuff I missed from Baro.

You win some, you lose some. It's the bad luck that makes the good luck that much more enjoyable. Meanwhile, this thread has derailed from the original question of the wording "not in simulacrum" that OP posed...which I must admit gave me the same impression: that one COULD use Forma in Sim, it just wouldn't count towards the challenge.

I still don't know if it's possible to, but this is a fun thread regardless.

Honestly, I wish more players could see it the way you do.  It's like people arrive at 6 o'clock in the evening, and expect the restaurant to serve breakfast fresh.   People don't seem to get that showing up late to the party, while it may be unfortunate for that player, is just....well, as you put it, bad luck.  

Also, spot on about -preparing- for the next time.  I build forma almost every day, whether I need it or not.  Been doing that since long before the NW missions were a thing.
I usually make sure I have AT LEAST 10, because never know when I need it for building component or modding new gear.  A week is 7 days, NW only requires 3 Forma, and it takes 3 days to build 3 MORE forma...(plus they GIVE you 3 forma at one rank), so a week is more than enough time to ensure you've got enough Forma for the following week's challenge, should it be the same, as well.  

People just don't seem to want to prepare...even though this game is all about that.

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