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Decrease ESO leeching by preventing joining with weapons under Rank 30.


Jarriaga
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On ESO: DE, you have mentioned that one of the primary goals of Elite Sanctuary Onslaught was to provide an alternative and reliable method to farm Focus, which is something you are not allowed to do unless your weapon/frame is Rank 30. ESO is a game mode in which efficiency is the only way to progress by its very own design, and provides a great Focus farming "burst" at the beginning of each stage with each stage granting more and more Focus as spawn rates increase on each stage. This is in turn balanced with a higher drain in efficiency, which requires killing enemies at a faster rate and dedicated builds. 

Problem: A leeching player that is only "playing" (Intentional quotation marks) ESO for maxing out a weapon is not contributing to said goal and is actually making it harder for the other players, particularly so when the host is the one leeching and leaves. This in turn causes affinity loss and risks progress loss due to host migration issues. So why allow it?

Proposed solution: While preventing joining an ESO session with weapons under Rank 30 (Including Amps) will not fully stop players from leaving early (Emergencies happen, and there will always be trolls), it would at least significantly decrease the occurrence of leeching players since just being able to join ESO at a stage in which you can only farm Focus and the rewards will leave them little choice but to at least try to get as much out of it as possible by being efficient. Rank 30 frame requirements in Sorties indicate that it is possible to apply such a restriction if expanded to weapons. This would only apply to ESO; regular Sanctuary Onslaught should still allow them to join with a frame and weapon under Rank 30 since it is a lot more laid back and less punishing with regards to efficiency.

Bonus proposition for encouraging 8+ stages: Take a page from Arbitrations with an infinite "C" reward rotation starting at Stage 8.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Not going to lie, I'm one of those players that goes to ESO in order to level / forma weapons. Though usualy I then take something like trin, range chroma or rhino, in order to support my team. If you would remove the ability to bring none fully leveled weapons, I wouldnt play that game mode anymore.

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6 minutes ago, BlachWolf said:

Not going to lie, I'm one of those players that goes to ESO in order to level / forma weapons. Though usualy I then take something like trin, range chroma or rhino, in order to support my team. If you would remove the ability to bring none fully leveled weapons, I wouldnt play that game mode anymore.

This.

If you want to play long SO/ESO just search for team on recruit chat instead of going with random people.

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4 minutes ago, Satinpuppies said:

You can join sorties with under leveled weapons.

I stand corrected. The opening post has been updated to reflect using rank 30 frame requirements.

2 minutes ago, BlachWolf said:

Not going to lie, I'm one of those players that goes to ESO in order to level / forma weapons. Though usualy I then take something like trin, range chroma or rhino, in order to support my team. If you would remove the ability to bring none fully leveled weapons, I wouldnt play that game mode anymore.

While I see where you're coming from, unless you also happen to stay way after your weapon maxed out then it eventually becomes a problem for your teammates. I remember a Trinity that was hosting and left as we entered Stage 3. The session broke and I was back at my Orbiter.

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb BlachWolf:

Though usualy I then take something like trin, range chroma or rhino, in order to support my team.

Same, but let's be realistic, we are the minority.

Most people who level in ESO don't think that far ahead or simply don't care to go this extra step.

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15 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

On ESO: DE, you have mentioned that one of the primary goals of Elite Sanctuary Onslaught was to provide an alternative and reliable method to farm Focus, which is something you are not allowed to do unless your weapon/frame is Rank 30. ESO is a game mode in which efficiency is the only way to progress by its very own design, and provides a great Focus farming "burst" at the beginning of each stage with each stage granting more and more Focus as spawn rates increase on each stage. This is in turn balanced with a higher drain in efficiency, which requires killing enemies at a faster rate and dedicated builds. 

Problem: A leeching player that is only "playing" (Intentional quotation marks) ESO for maxing out a weapon is not contributing to said goal and is actually making it harder for the other players, particularly so when the host is the one leeching and leaves. This in turn causes affinity loss and risks progress loss due to host migration issues. So why allow it?

Proposed solution: While preventing joining an ESO session with weapons under Rank 30 (Including Amps) will not fully stop players from leaving early (Emergencies happen, and there will always be trolls), it would at least significantly decrease the occurrence of leeching players since just being able to join ESO at a stage in which you can only farm Focus and the rewards will leave them little choice but to at least try to get as much out of it as possible by being efficient. Rank 30 frame requirements in Sorties indicate that it is possible to apply such a restriction if expanded to weapons. This would only apply to ESO; regular Sanctuary Onslaught should still allow them to join with a frame and weapon under Rank 30 since it is a lot more laid back and less punishing with regards to efficiency.

Bonus proposition for encouraging 8+ stages: Take a page from Arbitrations with an infinite "C" reward rotation starting at Stage 8.

I only need one good weapon to kill with. The rank of the other two isn't going to affect my kill rate whatsoever. 

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Just now, THeMooN85 said:

This.

If you want to play long SO/ESO just search for team on recruit chat instead of going with random people.

Is there no middle ground between "Long ESO" and just at least getting to a C rotation? Why should you be required to coordinate with other people to avoid leeches in a game mode that on DE's very own words is meant to help with Focus farming?

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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

While I see where you're coming from, unless you also happen to stay way after your weapon maxed out then it eventually becomes a problem for your teammates. I remember a Trinity that was hosting and left as we entered Stage 3. The session broke and I was back at my Orbiter. 

Thats in general a problem with warframe. Peer to peer is really not optimal for this type of game.

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Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I only need one good weapon to kill with. The rank of the other two isn't going to affect my kill rate whatsoever. 

it doesn't affect me when I'm the host, but it does affect when the host is a leech and leaves. it breaks things.

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Given that a single Saryn is able to solo ESO to zone 12 or so, and it makes absolutely zero difference whether the other three players are even doing anything, you're solving a problem that doesn't exist. Leeching to level guns is what ESO is for.

22 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Take a page from Arbitrations with an infinite "C" reward rotation starting at Stage 8. 

That I do agree with, mostly because it's impossible to reach a second C rotation in zone 16 regardless of how quickly you're able to kill due to lack of enemy spawn.

Edited by SordidDreams
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12 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

...

For people who already farmed the vandal weapons and whatever else they may need from ESO, its only purpose in the game is to level weapons and farm syndicate/focus affinity.

However I agree with you, ESO could be much more if DE tweaked a few things. Add the same Arbi''s rotation of ABCCC rewards like you proposed. Decrease efficiency drain considerably so it's sustainable to stay past zone 8 and enjoy fighting higher level enemies. Remove the enemy level cap (there's no reason to cap enemy level here if Arbi's have no cap). Add more interesting rewards to the tables, maybe even a Vitus-like vendor with cosmetics and other rewards. Or just give Simaris standing for each zone achieved and add more stuff to Simaris' shop.

Then it'd make sense to treat ESO more like an endgame mission and less like a mindless affinity farm. 

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A high MR player with a freshly forma'd weapon will outdo a non-forma'd weapon that is rank 30, especially the more formas that are applied.  With frames, the restriction makes more sense, because frames get more powerful with levels.  That simply ins't so with weapons.

If you want to set up specific groups, use Recruiting chat.  That's why that chat is there.

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3 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Same, but let's be realistic, we are the minority.

Most people who level in ESO don't think that far ahead or simply don't care to go this extra step. 

What extra step? LOL Just tell the if there's any benefit of staying longer than 8 zones. Satisfaction? No thank you. Not gonna waste my time.

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2 minutes ago, BlachWolf said:

Thats in general a problem with warframe. Peer to peer is really not optimal for this type of game.

On that I agree, but I don't think dedicated servers are ever coming to WF. Leech prevention on the other hand is a more feasible goal for DE.

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vor 9 Minuten schrieb THeMooN85:

If you want to play long SO/ESO just search for team on recruit chat instead of going with random people.

How about we turn this idea around,

Prevent non-level 30 weapons from joining public matchmaking, but leave premade groups open for them to join.

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4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Given that a single Saryn is able to solo ESO to zone 12 or so, and it makes absolutely zero difference whether the other three players are even doing anything, you're solving a problem that doesn't exist. Leeching to level guns is what ESO is for.

That assumes that host migrations don't happen when a leeching host leaves though.

Again: I have no issues when I am the host (As Equinox. I don't play Saryn), but I can't choose to host. And even if I could, spawn rate is affected by player count. Less players reaching Stage 8 means less focus. Sure Saryn can reach Stage 12 on her own, but soloing from 1-12 will net you a lot less Focus than 4 players just reaching wave 8.

 

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@WalkampfThat's... not a bad idea but how you would implement that in game?

It's not a problem to just join any host and leave in any time.

The only reasonable solution here would be dedicated servers from DE, not hosting by any player. With that any one could join and leave without host migration.

Edited by THeMooN85
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7 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

That assumes that host migrations don't happen when a leeching host leaves though.

Again: I have no issues when I am the host (As Equinox. I don't play Saryn), but I can't choose to host. And even if I could, spawn rate is affected by player count. Less players reaching Stage 8 means less focus. Sure Saryn can reach Stage 12 on her own, but soloing from 1-12 will net you a lot less Focus than 4 players just reaching wave 8.

 

Easily solved by playing solo.

I haven't noticed any difference in spawn or focus yield depending on the number of players, but even if there were, that's an argument for an "always host" checkbox and/or host migration fixes, not for weapon level restrictions. You can also mostly force host by setting your ping limit to the minimum possible and selecting a region on the other side of the globe. The game will fail to find any hosts with a low enough ping in that region, make you host, and then connect players with a higher ping limit setting from that region to you.

Edited by SordidDreams
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Well to be honest since the changes to minimum capacity on weapons it isn't such a big issue if the player is a higher MR...

I literally miss one mod versus a fully ranked weapon, sometimes not even that if I've been adding forma. 

To be fair though, I can't exactly say I'm a fan of eso in the first place though.

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10 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

A high MR player with a freshly forma'd weapon will outdo a non-forma'd weapon that is rank 30, especially the more formas that are applied.  With frames, the restriction makes more sense, because frames get more powerful with levels.  That simply ins't so with weapons.

It's not that the weapons are weak or not built properly. It's just that they come to ESO with the explicit purpose of ranking up the weapon and leave. This is a problem when the person doing so is the host. If they'd at least stayed then great! Most don't.

10 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

If you want to set up specific groups, use Recruiting chat.  That's why that chat is there.

Again: Why should you be required to coordinate with other people to avoid leeches in a game mode that on DE's very own words is meant to help with Focus farming? This is not a problem when I'm hosting, because I'm reaching Stage 8 no matter what. But I can't control host leaches who leave after their weapons maxed-out, forcing a migration, risking dropping the connection, often changing the stage and enemies or making you spawn out of bounds after the migration, or die while the screen is loading as efficiency drops because the game doesn't stop while it's migrating.

Why should you need to coordinate with people to avoid that instead of simply removing the most common cause of this problem? Again: Emergencies will happen and some players will have to leave, but leeches are a lot more prevalent.

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