Decrease ESO leeching by preventing joining with weapons under Rank 30.

[Test-995]

Please don't, i don't want to farm hydron 100 hours.

[Bekador]

So you want to tell me the weapon I carry with my Volt changes my performance as Volt? Heck, I use a Supra Vandal for the energy generating mod alone. Every other weapon slot is for leveling trash weapons quickly to get mastery xp.

[Jarriaga]

13 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Easily solved by playing solo.

I haven't noticed any difference in spawn or focus yield depending on the number of players, but even if there were, that's an argument for an "always host" checkbox and/or host migration fixes, not for weapon level restrictions. You can also mostly force host by setting your ping limit to the minimum possible and selecting a region on the other side of the globe. The game will fail to find any hosts with a low enough ping in that region, make you host, and then connect players with a higher ping limit setting from that region to you.

That's my current workaround, but having to constantly change my PIN limit back and forth just for ESO is a band-aid since there are also other people doing that to ensure that they don't miss out on affinity as they leech. 

An "always" host checkbox won't fix that since leeches would also be able to set themselves to always host. There has to be more than that or you're back to square 1 when you and a leech are both set to always host.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Jarriaga

[SordidDreams]

3 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

An "always" host checkbox won't fix that since leeches would also be able to set themselves to always host. There has to be more than that or you're back to square 1 when you and a leech are both set to always host.

No you're not. If you're always host, you will never connect to a leech host.

[Jarriaga]

3 minutes ago, Bekador said:

So you want to tell me the weapon I carry with my Volt changes my performance as Volt? Heck, I use a Supra Vandal for the energy generating mod alone. Every other weapon slot is for leveling trash weapons quickly to get mastery xp.

Please re-read the OP.

The problem is not you carrying out a rank 1 weapon. The problem is you leaving after it reaches rank 30 because you entered ESO with the explicit purpose of leveling it up, and then leave. If you stay after it maxed-out then I salute you for being a minority of considerate players. Otherwise, you are a problem for everyone else if you are the host and leave.

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

No you're not. If you're always host, you will never connect to a leech host.

Why?

Player 1: Set to always host.

Player 2: Set to always host.

if both players also have the same PING, either one will be the host since they both quality to be the host unless there's a second system in place that grants priority to one player over the other regardless of PING.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Jarriaga

[SordidDreams]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

Why?

Player 1: Set to always host.

Player 2: Set to always host.

if both players also have the same PING, either one will be the host.

No, they will both be hosts of their own separate sessions. That's what "always host" means, that's the whole point of it.

[Jarriaga]

5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

No, they will both be hosts of their own separate sessions. That's what "always host" means, that's the whole point of it.

Which is the same as playing solo all the time. There would not be talk of host migration issues if everyone hosted their own games and playing solo. That's precisely my point.

If a "host only" option is ever implemented it will be the same as playing solo since most of the community will use it, and those who don't still find themselves exposed to hosts who leech and leave. You can only stop leeches if you decrease the incentivize to leech.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Jarriaga

[SteelOverseer666]

38 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

 I remember a Trinity that was hosting and left as we entered Stage 3. The session broke and I was back at my Orbiter.

As is tradition with PUBLIC squads comprised of people with wildly different GOALS.

If you want people to be aligned with your specific goals then use the recruitment function to find those people.

I do not expect to see this change because you have a solution that is already available and easy.

[Jarriaga]

2 minutes ago, SteelOverseer666 said:

As is tradition with PUBLIC squads comprised of people with wildly different GOALS.

If you want people to be aligned with your specific goals then use the recruitment function to find those people.

I do not expect to see this change because you have a solution that is already available and easy.

Why should you be required to coordinate with other people to avoid leeches in a game mode that on DE's very own words is meant to help with Focus farming? This is not a problem when I'm hosting, because I'm reaching Stage 8 no matter what. But I can't control host leaches who leave after their weapons maxed-out, forcing a migration, risking dropping the connection, often changing the stage and enemies or making you spawn out of bounds after the migration, or die while the screen is loading as efficiency drops because the game doesn't stop while it's migrating.

Why should you need to coordinate with people to avoid that instead of simply removing the most common cause of this problem? Again: Emergencies will happen and some players will have to leave, but leeches are a lot more prevalent.

Why a "player workaround" instead of a hard, permanent fix  that would still allow you to play in public groups instead of wasting minutes just waiting for a perfectly meta team to decide to group up?

Edited May 15, 2019 by Jarriaga

[SteelOverseer666]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

Why should you be required to coordinate with other people to avoid leeches in a game mode that on DE's very own words is meant to help with Focus farming? This is not a problem when I'm hosting, because I'm reaching Stage 8 no matter what. But I can't control host leaches who leave after their weapons maxed-out, forcing a migration, risking dropping the connection, often changing the stage and enemies or making you spawn out of bounds after the migration, or die while the screen is loading as efficiency drops because the game doesn't stop while it's migrating.

Why should you need to coordinate with people to avoid that instead of simply removing the most common cause of this problem? Again: Emergencies will happen and some players will have to leave, but leeches are a lot more prevalent.

Because you want a group that has a specific set of goals, that is why you are required to coordinate with other people.

Its pretty damn simple.

Use the recruitment function.

Case closed.

[MystMan]

Do people who keep spouting that "use recruit chat" actually follow their own advice or do they just enjoy mentioning platitudes?

The thing about recruit chat is, it involves waiting and staring at your screen doing nothing for several minutes waiting for replies (if you get any at all) to fill a lobby for who knows how long.  Who enjoys that?  

Recruit chat is quick only when it is about farming new fresh content, like the latest Prime items, daily sorties, events or Nightwave challenges and such.  Anything else that is old (older or vaulted relics relics, any star chart node), you're going to have a harder time filling all those player slots; the more specific you are, the harder it will be that somebody wants that exact same goal as you who also just happens to be staring at the recruit chat at the same time. That is quite a heavy RNG by itself.

"H ESO 8 waves" or  "H ESO infinity waves"   Who honestly believes you will consistently get 3 replies within 2 minutes at any time time on any day you type that in recruit chat? You're better off saving your time by just doing it solo (or take your chances with a pub group). And herein lies the problem I have with ESO:  the efficiency drop rate doesn't scale based on # of players.

A solo player is expected to be just as efficient as a 4 player team at wiping every ESO map?  There's like only 3 nuker frames this is possible with, and it has gotten boring (for me) because of this.  I'd like to use other frames but even when packing 8-forma OP weapons that just isn't possible. Regular SO can be done with every frame to wave 8 easily due to the efficiency rate dropping slower. The capture rate of Interception scales based on # of players, such feature should be present in ESO's efficiency kill rate too. You shouldn't be punished because "you dare play this game mode alone!" forcing you to stick with the 3 meta ESO solo frames forever.

[SteelOverseer666]

1 minute ago, MystMan said:

Do people who keep spouting that "use recruit chat" actually follow their own advice or do they just enjoy mentioning platitudes?

The thing about recruit chat is, it involves waiting and staring at your screen doing nothing for several minutes waiting for replies (if you get any at all) to fill a lobby for who knows how long.  Who enjoys that?  

Recruit chat is quick only when it is about farming new fresh content, like the latest Prime items, daily sorties, events or Nightwave challenges and such.  Anything else that is old (older or vaulted relics relics, any star chart node), you're going to have a harder time filling all those player slots; the more specific you are, the harder it will be that somebody wants that exact same goal as you who also just happens to be staring at the recruit chat at the same time. That is quite a heavy RNG by itself.

"H ESO 8 waves" or  "H ESO infinity waves"   Who honestly believes you will consistently get 3 replies within 2 minutes at any time time on any day you type that in recruit chat? You're better off saving your time by just doing it solo (or take your chances with a pub group). And herein lies the problem I have with ESO:  the efficiency drop rate doesn't scale based on # of players.

A solo player is expected to be just as efficient as a 4 player team at wiping every ESO map?  There's like only 3 nuker frames this is possible with, and it has gotten boring (for me) because of this.  I'd like to use other frames but even when packing 8-forma OP weapons that just isn't possible. Regular SO can be done with every frame to wave 8 easily due to the efficiency rate dropping slower. The capture rate of Interception scales based on # of players, such feature should be present in ESO's efficiency kill rate too. You shouldn't be punished because "you dare play this game mode alone!" forcing you to stick with the 3 meta ESO solo frames forever.

Finding squads for long ESO runs is easy. Do you really use the chat?

[SordidDreams]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

Which is the same as playing solo all the time. There would not be talk of host migration issues if everyone hosted their own games and playing solo. That's precisely my point.

If a "host only" option is ever implemented it will be the same as playing solo since most of the community will use it, and those who don't still find themselves exposed to hosts who leech and leave. You can only stop leeches if you decrease the incentivize to leech.

It's not the same, you could still get clients connecting to you. In theory. Provided there were players who didn't check that "always host" checkbox. If it was unchecked by default, chances are there would be some.

As I said earlier, trying to stop leeches is misguided. You're trying to solve something that's not actually a problem. Leeching is what ESO is all about, it's one of the two purposes of its existence (the other being focus farming). it's a feature, not a bug. What's actually needed is host migration fixes so that a leeching host leaving doesn't negatively impact the rest of the team.

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, SteelOverseer666 said:

Because you want a group that has a specific set of goals, that is why you are required to coordinate with other people.

Its pretty damn simple.

Use the recruitment function.

Case closed.

last time I requested ESO group recruit chat I didn't get to play until I gave up and went public after 10 minutes. Why a "player workaround" instead of a hard, permanent fix that would still allow you to play in public groups instead of wasting minutes just waiting for a perfectly meta team to decide to group up? Why punish players who want to play a game mode for its intended purposes as described by DE instead of the leeches? Are you one of those leeches? Because otherwise my proposal would not affect you.

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

Hope this becomes a thing, sick of seeing low and high levels alike come to ESO with nothing but a lv0 weapon and a random frame like Inaros that helps no-one but themselves and try to leech off the other players, I always leave when I see this but I shouldn't have to quit every other match sometimes during wave 2 because of trash like these

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, SteelOverseer666 said:

Finding squads for long ESO runs is easy. Do you really use the chat?

Constantly giving up after 10 minutes. Recruit chat tends to go perfectly meta or nothing. They require specific frames and roles rather than just being happy with you not messing up. There was a time in which the whole group disbanded 15 minutes in because the last player would not use Corrosive Projection. One guy left. So did the second one.

If a solution depends on the behavior and consideration of other people then it is not a solution. Otherwise we would not be having this conversation.

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I only need one good weapon to kill with. The rank of the other two isn't going to affect my kill rate whatsoever. 

This right here.  

Ultimately, if you want to avoid leeching, LFG.  Or go in with a rig that can carry.  

There is zero difference between someone leaving at round three because they have leveled their weapon, or because they hit their focus limit for the day.  Either way, they had a reason to leave.  

Also, it's not leeching.  You can stay and move on, host migration willing.  

If you want people to stay to round 8, then go find them.  Because news flash - people will still leave before round 8 or however late it is you're trying to run even if DE was to implement something as bad as an idea as this.

Stop being selfish and blaming other players.  Either harden up or LFG.  

[SteelOverseer666]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

last time I requested ESO group recruit chat I didn't get to play until I gave up and went public after 10 minutes. Why a "player workaround" instead of a hard, permanent fix that would still allow you to play in public groups instead of wasting minutes just waiting for a perfectly meta team to decide to group up? Why punish players who want to play a game mode for its intended purposes as described by DE instead of the leeches? Are you one of those leeches? Because otherwise my proposal would not affect you.

I dont stay to 8 waves so I would automatically be a leech to you right? I must be punished because I dont conform to your elitest crap?

If you want to play with a focused elitest group then go find like minded people. If you have trouble finding people in recruitment then find a clan.

I use ESO for leveling weapons.

Thousands of people do. Many more than use it for focus.

DE is never going to implement your changes.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

26 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

It's not that the weapons are weak or not built properly. It's just that they come to ESO with the explicit purpose of ranking up the weapon and leave. This is a problem when the person doing so is the host. If they'd at least stayed then great! Most don't.

That's a problem with host migrations, not with weapon restrictions then.

26 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Again: Why should you be required to coordinate with other people to avoid leeches in a game mode that on DE's very own words is meant to help with Focus farming?

Because you are the one trying to force your goals and play styles on others.  And, no, bringing in an unranked weapon does not automatically make someone a leech, nor does leaving before you want them to leave.  ESO is not just for focus farming, even if that's how you plan on using it.  You can't force others to have the same outlooks and goals as you in PUB matches.  Set up your own squads with like-minded groups and you won't have to worry about it.  But, when you sign into a PUG, you agree to what happens.  The only caveat would be people doing what is actually leeching (as opposed to your definition) by not doing anything and making everyone else do all the work.  That can be reported.

[Jarriaga]

5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

It's not the same, you could still get clients connecting to you. In theory. Provided there were players who didn't check that "always host" checkbox. If it was unchecked by default, chances are there would be some.

Yes, and as I mentioned, those people would then be at the mercy of leeching hosts. I would no longer be experiencing the problem myself, but the problem would still remain there.

5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

As I said earlier, trying to stop leeches is misguided. You're trying to solve something that's not actually a problem. Leeching is what ESO is all about, it's one of the two purposes of its existence (the other being focus farming). it's a feature, not a bug. What's actually needed is host migration fixes so that a leeching host leaving doesn't negatively impact the rest of the team.

No, leeching is what leeching players have made ESO about. I am most certain DE doesn't like leeching, and if leeching was an acceptable player behavior then you would still get rewards when standing and doing nothing instead of getting a "not eligible for reward" message.

[Zanchak]

Hm, but my rank 0 weapon is fully modded anyway (in general) at mr 27.. I may be missing 1 mod. This would remove the option for me to use a fully modded and capable weapon just because other people can't max their mods yet.

In other words, no.

[Jarriaga]

5 minutes ago, SteelOverseer666 said:

I dont stay to 8 waves so I would automatically be a leech to you right? I must be punished because I dont conform to your elitest crap?

If your intent purpose is to leech by only bringing 1 weapon that you want to rank to 30 and not even a frame that can passively help, then I am happy to accept that you call me an elitist crap, because I am going to call you a leech. Specially if you are hosting, because when I host it doesn't affect me as I can reach Stage 8 just fine.

So please, call me an elitist from to top of your lungs. I accept it.

5 minutes ago, SteelOverseer666 said:

If you want to play with a focused elitest group then go find like minded people. If you have trouble finding people in recruitment then find a clan.
 

I can play with anyone as long as I'm hosting or if no leech host leaves. I have no frame requirements. I play Equinox with a melee build. That's not the problem. The problem is what I lose when a leech host leaves.

6 minutes ago, SteelOverseer666 said:

I use ESO for leveling weapons.

Thousands of people do. Many more than use it for focus.

I believe DE should not allow you to use ESO for that. That's my opinion.

10 minutes ago, SteelOverseer666 said:

DE is never going to implement your changes.

Hopefully they will. I can only hope they do so considering they do have "anti-leech" measures in other game modes. This is the feedback forum after all, and I see leeching is a problem in a game mode that explicitly resolves around killing as many enemies as fast as possible, or lose.

[SteelOverseer666]

 

5 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Hopefully they will.

Nahhh they wont.

The requirements in place are sufficient.

I barely ever see leeches.

Go find a clan. Make friends who have similar goals.

Or accept the fact that your not going to get "perfectly meta groups" unless you set them up yourself.

Edited May 15, 2019 by SteelOverseer666

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

3 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Hopefully they will. I can only hope they do so considering they do have "anti-leech" measures in other game modes. This is the feedback forum after all, and I see leeching is a problem in a game mode that explicitly resolves around killing as many enemies as fast as possible, or lose.

If the player was only ever going to use one weapon...melee let's say (kinda like you do), then why shouldn't they be able to bring another weapon along to let it accumulate some XP?  They aren't making the efficiency any worse since they aren't using their weapon.

Of course, you've already admitted that it's not about that, it's about punishing players who don't come into the game with the same goals as you.  You don't get to dictate to other players how many rounds they are required to stay in a match.  This is no different than people who want to dictate that players no be allowed to leave a defense before wave 20 or survival before 20 minutes are up.