Jump to content
Jamescell

Orb Vallis and PoE 2.0: Comprehensive Suggestions for Future Development and Content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I posted something similar in level design a while back, but this is a more extensive, edited version that I think reaches beyond the scope of just level design. Fortuna and PoE are a great addition to Warframe, and clearly the first steps towards DE's future approach to level design and world-building. I have suggestions for how to improve both areas with features that will allow for more enjoyable and immersive open-world experiences. The recent rework did a lot to make the plains prettier and update the economy and mission mechanics, but when I play Orb Vallis and the Plains, neither feels immersive or "living" enough. Whenever I play on these maps, some part of me longs to have more reasons to explore the landscape and interact with these beautiful environments. What I suggest would take a lot of development time and resources, but these open world areas justify the investment, as they are the next and newest iteration of Warframe- this type of content is what Warframe is heading towards. As such, these areas should be as awe-inspiring, interactive, dynamic, and enjoyable as possible within reason. I'm not a performance expert, so it's possible that some of these suggestions simply aren't viable from a performance standpoint, but I try not to suggest simply making things prettier and more processor-intensive, that isn't really the goal anyway. 

TLDR: I suggest a lot of features that would improve player interaction with the open-world environments, give players reasons to explore and enjoy these environments, ramp up the immersive-ness by creating more vibrant ecosystems, and add to the verticality and vertical content of the maps to better mesh with Warframe's mobility system, as well as more specialized enemies and activities that would offer a more specific reward alternatives to farming thumpers. Much of the content proposed would have randomized elements, encouraging exploration and reducing monotony to some level. I also suggest expanding on plant-type resources and adding multiple ways to farm said resources as well as multiple ways to farm gems/minerals and fish parts. Some of the sections focus more heavily on PoE for simplicity, but the implication is that very similar mechanics could be implemented in Orb Vallis. Towards the end of my suggestions I get into changes for enemies on both maps- changes for the Corpus which I think should eventually be applied to all Corpus levels.

Wildlife:

Spoiler

TLDR: The reasoning for the following points is in the actual paragraphs. The TLDR sections are just meant to summarize the proposed features.

1.) Common variants of animals in the Orb Vallis should spawn in the open, and common variants of animals in both should spawn more often.

2.) Animals in each ecosystem should have basic interactions with one another depending on place in the food chain.

3.) Applicable animals should have dens and nests, some of which could yield small amounts of resources.

4.) Feral Kubrows should be added to the PoE.

5.) A running prey animal for the feral kubrows should be added to the plains.

6.) A few more animals should be added to the plains for ecological diversity.

7.) More collectible plants should be added to create a third main resource category that rewards players for activities related to conservation and exploration. 

In order to make these places feel more "alive" with real ecosystems, the common versions of the animals that live in these places should spawn in the open and more often, instead of being "hidden" for conservation purposes. In order to make conservation still work in the way it does, the common form of each creature could spawn readily in the wild, with significantly lower or no conservation reward (depending on the balance DE would want), while players would have to hunt for the rarer versions just as they do now. This would be justified because the "rarer" variants of each species could be classified as endangered while the common versions could be given a ecologically stable status. Conservation hunts would be added to the PoE as well.

Interactions between creatures should be established, such as Sawgaws and Verminks hunting Pobbers, and Stovers and Kubrodons fighting among themselves and attacking essentially any other creature for food. There could be Sawgaw nests, perched high up in the bluffs or on top of mushroom clusters that could be plundered for plant parts, Pobber dens at the bases of mushrooms, and Kubrodon dens in sheltered areas near coolant reservoirs. Pobbers could be found eating small interactive mushrooms for food and water.

For the PoE specifically, Feral Kubrows should be added with updated Kubrow dens that don't look so silly, and are integrated into the terrain- as opposed to the current mounds that have been haphazardly placed on flat ground. Fast prey animals that run around the plains should be added for kubrows to hunt. Condrocs could be found near the carcasses of dead prey animals, and circling Kubrow packs to take left over scraps. Mergoos could be found hunting for Kuakas in the forests. A prairie-dog sized animal could be added simply for more diversity to fill out the ecosystem. Kuaka burrows could be dug up for a chance of unearthing plant resources (discussed below), and Mergoo nests near the coast could be plundered for fish parts. Such changes would make the ecosystems present in both maps feel much more alive, as opposed to just decoration for the eye.

Finally, much more collectible plants should be added to the game to give players a third main resource category connected to exploration and conservation- and to add more plant-diversity to the landscape. Wildlife could be killed with normal weapons, and would yield some plant drops as a means of diversifying how plant resources can be collected, but conservation would present a significantly better way to get the same plant resource drops so that players still have an incentive to conserve instead of kill. Killing wildlife could even lower the rewards of nearby conservation or for a duration, depending on how acceptable DE thinks killing animals should be.

Fishing:

Spoiler

TLDR: 1.) Add seamless swimming that allows players to swim and fish in the bodies of water present on maps with their fishing spear. 

2.) Possibly add more options for catching fish like chasing them into nets or simply using a net.

3.) Add larger possibly aggressive fish that the player has to play "matador" with, and could possibly even pull the player by their spear if it is lodged in the fish. These larger fish could offer a fish-focused alternative to Thumpers. The Orb Vallis version could be an aquatic Corpus proxy. 

4.) Would require work to implement, including a retrofit of bodies of water to have detailed underwater environments.

5.) Underwater environments could have environmental hazards which appear more frequently in more lucrative areas (magnetic water effect could be limited to clouds dispersed throughout the water at night), and collectible underwater plant resources should be added. 

Fishing can be enjoyable in short stints when you get lucky and get a bunch of rare fish, but most of the time it strikes me as tedious. I suggest something more exciting and interactive. Players should be able to jump into any body of water and swim around with their fishing spear. Just as players cannot shoot fish with their weapons, they would only be able to catch fish with their fishing spear and/or possible new options like chasing fish and catching them with nets. Archwing wouldn't be necessary to swim underwater, so that this new mechanic is better integrated into the game and more accessible. Ideally, players would start to swim whenever they entered water to a level that, before, would re-spawn them on land, making the mechanic seamless. Jumping into water from a height would work as it does in real life; if players fell a far distance into a shallow enough body of water, there would be an impact animation for when they hit.

Allowing players to fish in/under the water would allow for more interaction with the environment and add more diversity to what players can experience on each map. Furthermore, this new type of fishing would allow for larger fish and the possibility of aggressive fish that the player would have to play "matador" with, perhaps players could even get pulled along by their lodged spear, as well as environmental hazards that could correspond to more lucrative fishing areas. There could also be underwater caves that connect to the existing cave networks.

Obviously, this feature would require a bit of work to implement, probably including a re-fit of most bodies of water to be much more detailed/full of plant life with crevasses and much more varied depth. Very small bodies of water that are barely deep enough to accommodate the player would not need much detail, but could still spawn small fish, or these smaller ponds could be remade to be deeper or wider, or areas that are too small to support swimming in a robust way could allow players to float, but not dive under. 

The coastline of PoE could be retrofitted for a larger ocean-like coast environment and feature some of the largest plants and aggressive fish types. Perhaps these larger fish could even drop parts to other smaller fish when caught or killed, functioning as a fish-focused alternative to thumpers. The Grineer windfarms could be build out on both coastlines to add more solid structures above the water. Underwater environments could have collectible resources and plants to further encourage players to swim around and add more interactive elements to the environment. 

Orb Vallis could have large underground coolant sewer/circulation networks in addition to natural underwater tunnels. The larger "fish" in the Orb Vallis could be an underwater Corpus proxy (like a manta ray or shark or squid or turtle). The underwater plant life could be a mix of sensors and robotic infrastructure/networks, or (preferably) its possible that plant life can survive in the coolant, in which case some really exotic looking plants could be added to the seabed. 

Terrain:

Spoiler

TLDR: 1.) Add more vertical terrain, like giving mushroom forests smaller mushrooms that grow under and between the larger ones.

2.) Expand the mushroom forests to the point where most of them are connected in at least one way, and add taller grass.

3.) Forests should be expanded in the plains. Flat-lands should remain without trees, but bodies of water should have more.

4.) Add large-branched trees for birds to perch on in PoE.

5.) Add more sentient-rib terrain (not the bodies, just the ribs that stick out of the ground and level off.

6.) Create more terraced/small plateau areas with wildlife or enemies to add more content and detail to vertical areas.

With Warframe’s amazing parkour system, our open world areas suffer from being too open. While Fortuna is better than the plains in this regard, more vertical terrain and multi-level environments requiring vertical traversal would create a much denser environment to promote more interactive mobility The following suggestions focus on adding more vertical aspects to the landscapes as well as more vibrant environments: What we currently have in the Orb Vallis are looming mushroom canopies that lack ground-level detail or density. Mushroom forests should have different sizes/ages of mushrooms and taller patches of grass, that create a sort of underbrush/cover for wildlife.

Such a change would also allow for better stealth and mobility opportunities for Warframes- with the smaller sized mushrooms functioning as cover and steppingstones for better access to the tops of the tallest mushrooms. These mushroom forest patches/biome areas should be expanded so that most of them are connected, giving these areas a more present and expansive feel. This would also give the wildlife a more realistic way of moving around.

The forest areas in the plains should be expanded to surround lake Gara Toht and extend all the way up the banks of the stream that feeds into the lake. Honestly, the forest areas should just be expanded in general; there are a lot of areas that still look very bare, even excluding areas that are reserved as actual plains, such as the giant slope between Gara Toht lake and the Grineer Radar Base. Large-branched trees should be added as perches for both types of bird in the plains, and the arched sentient remains that resemble ribs between the Hillside Ruin and lake Gara Toht should be added to much more of the terrain, as they are very effective at adding more verticality and traversable terrain.

Both areas should be given elevated, small-plateau areas, that feature wildlife, or small outposts, or scout patrols of enemies- especially in areas that are already very vertical/elevated in order to create more content in vertical areas; as of now, Fortuna has some very steep environments, but there is often very little there, and thus no reason to go there. 

Caves:

Spoiler

TLDR: 1.) Significantly expand the cave networks on both maps, and connect them to one another so that players can travel most of the map underground and connect bodies of water to the caves via underwater tunnels.

2.) Add cave specific plant-based resources and parkour opportunities.

3.) Deeper areas could reward rarer or larger amounts of ore and gems, perhaps as enemy level grows.

4.) Add varied environments, with large sections that are extensions of pristine animal habitat, and others still that are heavily developed and filled with enemies.

5.) Randomly distribute rare enemy caches in the occupied areas.

6.) Connect caves to the enemy bases/facilities above ground. Expand these bases so they have large subterranean complexes. Caves would connect on the lowest and most secluded levels. 

7.) Enemy facilities would feature dynamic alerts that reward players for a stealthy approach, which would be easier using the cave networks. 

8.) Add updated excavation missions to the cave networks that are a gem/ore focused alternative to killing thumpers. 

This section is sort of an expansion of the terrain section. The cave networks on both maps should be heavily expanded on. At the moment, both of Warframe's open world areas are wasting the potential of underground content. Underwater tunnels could connect bodies of water to cave networks, which should be interconnected enough to allow for underground player travel between many parts of the map. These networks would serve as an extension of, and connection between, animal habitat and forest areas. Furthermore, the caves could feature exclusive collectible plant resources to further incentivize cave exploration. Perhaps, deeper areas could yield higher amounts of ore and gems, or have a higher chance of rewarding rare ore or gems.

The cave networks would add another level of verticality and content to the Orb Vallis as well as the PoE. These networks could feature pristine areas with higher concentrations of underground creatures and plants, as well as areas occupied with Grineer or Corpus activity, equipment, and enemies. Rare Grineer and Corpus caches, and enemies that protect said caches could be randomly distributed in the Grineer/Corpus occupied areas of the cave networks each game.

On both maps, most of the larger enemy outposts/bases should be expanded to underground facilities that connect to the cave networks on their deepest and most secluded levels. These facilities could randomly feature spy, sabotage, capture, and rescue mission opportunities as dynamic alerts which would reward successful stealthy approaches (if enemies turn on alarms anywhere in the facility, the rescue-target kill timer will start, the spy vaults will get harder or yield less valuable data, the capture target will start to escape, the sabotage will result in less rewards or a timer) and as a result would perhaps be easier if infiltrated from the cave networks.

Each major Grineer base should be large enough to accommodate at least three of the four mission types, so that the repetition of mission type and location combined would be very low. Completing said missions should be a worthwhile way of earning standing, as well as bounty-like rewards, such as relics, mods, and resources. Such a feature would give these bases more interactive purpose as well. In the case of Orb Vallis, caves could have underground freshwater ponds and running water to better justify how the animals stay alive (servofish would still spawn, but perhaps organic fish could be added to the caves as well). There could be updated mining sabotage/excavation missions in the actual cave networks, which would yield varying amounts of gems as a more gem-focused alternative to killing Thumpers and Orbs. These missions could involve hijacking enemy mining equipment, perhaps even modifying it, and defending/directing it. 

Orokin:

Spoiler

TLDR: 1.) Add more Orokin pillars and tower ruins, the larger of which have entrances and small interiors that connect to caves below

2.) Add a mission type in which players hunt down certain targets for an Orokin key, and use it to open a portal to the void.

3.) The void areas would have puzzles or vaults or parkour areas that give certain rewards detailed below.

In both areas, the ruins of the Orokin should be expanded. There should be more Orokin pillar ruins in the plains and the larger ones should have entrances near the tops that allow players to traverse up to them and enter. The Orokin coolant tower in the Orb Vallis should also feature an interior, and there should be more orokin structures littered across the Vallis map. These interiors would lead to underground chambers that would tie into the larger underground networks talked about in the previous section.

Players could hunt down underground Grineer/Corpus expedition parties in the cave networks (each expedition would have a leader who would try to escape) to gather the parts for an Orokin key which would allow players to activate a specific dormant Orokin gate of a few gates that are located in the cave networks. Doing so would open a portal to a pristine part of the void. These void-facilities could feature puzzles like Lua, and/or Orokin vaults like those in the derelicts. The rewards could be mods, prime relics, endo, and/or Ayatan sculptures, or could tie into the local reputation systems, whatever DE sees most fit. Ideally, there would be some rewards (like mods) that players simply want to get, and some renewable rewards (like relics or resources). The rewards should vary between Fortuna and Cetus to give players reasons to do both. Such a feature would give the Orokin ruins already present in both maps more meaning and add another interactive task for players that offers more environmental diversity and layers to the world. 

Presence:

Spoiler

TLDR: 1.) Add small, hidden outposts of Ostrons and Solaris throughout the map, and salvaging expedition parties for the Ostrons. 

2.) Outposts could have small narrative quests in which the player can incrementally improve said outposts, which could result it various perks/bonuses. 

3.) Players should be able to start bounties from outposts, and perhaps limited-time more involved conservation missions with larger rewards.

4.) The Ostron outposts and salvage expedition parties should offer dynamic alerts in which they are under siege and need assistance. 

Both areas would greatly benefit from an increased presence of both enemy and allied factions. For Vallis more Solaris and Corpus activity, and for the Plains more Ostrons and Grineer movement as well as ghouls (which I get into in the faction section). The Ostrons could have small outposts for relaying intelligence about the Grineer, as well as serving as bases of operation for salvaging expeditions to Orokin ruins and crashed Grineer ships. These outposts would be well isolated and low-profile, but at times they could be beset by Grineer assaults or ghouls, allowing players to defend them during dynamic alerts for a small reward (perhaps minerals or fish or both).

The Ostrons at these outposts could even have small narrative quests as a way of introducing each outpost, in which they start out in a dire situation that the player slowly improves, leading to increased player benefits at said outpost- perhaps the outpost lacks certain resources to function properly, or certain individuals need specific assistance. Some of these outposts could be underground, in secluded parts of the cave networks, or feature hidden entrances. Players could start bounties from these outposts so long as the outposts were defended. Perhaps the outposts could offer limited-time conservation missions that are more involved and give more standing, requiring players to fend off the enemy; the context would be something like: the scouts report a rare (animal) was spotted at (location), being threatened by nearby enemy patrols, go there to save and capture it.

As for the Grineer, they should have cargo ships flying between outposts (adds more vertical activity) that could possibly be boarded and hijacked (and possibly brought to the Ostron outposts) for certain rewards, or simply shot down for little reward (common dynamic alert). To add more interactivity between the two groups, there could be Ostron salvage expeditions that go to crashed Grineer ships or orokin ruins, again offering dynamic alerts in which players must defend the Ostrons from surprise ghoul attacks. In the long run a feature that possibly involves large Grineer airships/bases defended by flying and mounted Grineer would add more vertical content, giving players something to actually use their archwings against. In Fortuna, very similar ideas could be implemented.

Factions:

Spoiler

TLDR: 1.) Unify enemy color schemes where possible.

2.) Modify the ghouls to be less irritating and increase how often they spawn to the point where ghouls are seen more often than Tusks.

3.) Add ghoul hives or strongholds to the cave networks, as well as an Alpha unit that is very rare above ground, but can be reliably found in the Ghoul hives, and would provide a cave-plant focused alternative to Thumpers. 

4.) Increase the proportion of proxies to humans that the Corpus use to the point where the human units are rare. Change the crewmen models to Comba and Scrambus models and give them powerful command-like abilities as well as cowardly/cautious behavior patterns in which they will try to distance themselves from Tenno and throw anything at the threat before themselves.

Grineer: The enemy forces on both maps should be further flushed out. Unified color schemes for all the unique-model units within each faction would do a great deal to up the “wow” factor and add much more thematic and artistic unity to enemies. When players think of enemies on the plains, the ghouls should come to mind, and currently that’s not the case. While the toxic-cold clouds that ghouls spawn are an irritating mechanic, the Ghouls offer a unique Grineer experience that should be built on.

Given the removal of the cold-toxin clouds, ghouls should spawn in more areas and more often, to the point where they are the main enemy found in the wild on the plains. During bounties that involve defending a target, Ghouls should be the frontline threat, spawning slightly off-site and rushing towards the target. Ghouls should also spawn in heavier amounts on the outskirts of Grineer outposts, functioning as a security provision against any trespassers. Ghouls could guard the tunnels that connect the Grineer outposts to the cave networks below, and certain caves could serve as ghoul hives, where the forces of the ghouls are most concentrated.

Fighting the ghouls in such an environment could be a thrilling experience if done right. Perhaps the ghoul alpha reskins could be turned into an actual alpha unit that commands the other ghouls in the pack. This alpha would have enough intelligence to serve as a middleman between the ghouls and the civilized Grineer, keeping the ghouls organized enough to serve Vay Hek’s wishes. These alphas could be found very rarely above ground but very commonly in the ghoul hives and would drop cave-specific plant resources and/or unique or rare mods.

Corpus: Lore wise the Corpus are “a merchant cult, built on the foundation of salvaged technology and robotics”. For the longest time, however, their use of salvaged technologies and robotics has not been well reflected by actual Corpus forces. What makes the Corpus unique and interesting- their gimmick- is their use of animal-like robots, energy weapons, and obsession with wealth. From a money-saving standpoint, higher levels of automation make more sense. From a thematic standpoint make the Corpus stand out more. From a combat perspective, super-strength robots make more sense as well. Boatloads of Michelin-man crewmen just don’t make much sense, and don’t fit well with the themes the Corpus are supposed to represent.

For the Orb Vallis at least, Corpus forces should be rebalanced so that proxies are the main enemy encountered, and the bulk of the Corpus forces. As the result of such a shift, the Corpus humans that players encounter should be rarer and much more well equipped. In fact, the game already has the perfect model to allow for more individuality in Corpus human units (Comba and Scrambus). While the current mechanics of these units are perhaps problematic, their modular designs would give each Corpus individuality (unlike the Grineer).

These new Corpus operators would emulate Alad V’s behavior, and would try to keep distance from the Tenno, reluctant to risk their own lives fighting- instead they would direct nearby proxies. These new Corpus could have a range of abilities that could include repairing robotics, activating security measures, requesting reinforcements without a beacon, commanding proxies to meltdown (damaging everything in an explosion after a duration, possibly just Raknoids), perhaps riding Moas and Jackals, perhaps siphoning the shields of nearby proxies, attaching to ospreys to gain flight, and/or if damaged enough would become even more evasive/defensive, causing nearby proxies to create defensive formations while the Corpus operator tries to escape.

 

 

 

Edited by Jamescell
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this, and I support the suggestions. 

A lot of development needed clearly so may not be implemented in full, but I really like this. 

 

Maybe make the post a little bulleted and use spoilers to cover the actual details? That wall of text might put people off. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I like this, and I support the suggestions. 

A lot of development needed clearly so may not be implemented in full, but I really like this. 

 

Maybe make the post a little bulleted and use spoilers to cover the actual details? That wall of text might put people off. 

 

I'm glad you like it! Put a lot of thought into these ideas and the post as a whole.

Considering you're the only response, you're probably right. I added spoilers, but I think bullets might get in the way of trying to convey the large systematic relationships I suggest. Maybe I'll do a TLDR of each paragraph. 

I split up each section into smaller paragraphs, and have a TLDR summary for the first section. I'm wondering if I should put a spoiler inside each section spoiler for the TLDR bullet points? They take up quite a bit of vertical space. I could maybe add them after the actual paragraphs instead?

Edited by Jamescell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 2 cents would be to just stop doing it.

If you look at the Avg players before Oct 2017 when PoE was released and right now. It's exactly the same.

Two years and no avg player growth where as before these sandbox go-no-where time sink projects Warframe had a slow but steady increase in Avg players. The spikes are bigger now and higher peak players. There's obviously more people playing but they aren't playing more.

The game hasn't really improved as a game. It's not more entertaining. It's not more fun and it's not keeping the attention of players more than before.

This method makes money and that's kinda all it does. They might as well be stand alone games rather than a part of Warframe. They have very little impact on the game because they are essentially hard resets that eventually end and once they end players do not go back unless baited to do so with more time sink development.

I don't feel we've really gained much as a functional game over the past 2 years and so I can't support  their new direction.

  • Applause 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2019-05-17 at 12:43 AM, Xzorn said:

My 2 cents would be to just stop doing it.

If you look at the Avg players before Oct 2017 when PoE was released and right now. It's exactly the same.

Two years and no avg player growth where as before these sandbox go-no-where time sink projects Warframe had a slow but steady increase in Avg players. The spikes are bigger now and higher peak players. There's obviously more people playing but they aren't playing more.

The game hasn't really improved as a game. It's not more entertaining. It's not more fun and it's not keeping the attention of players more than before.

This method makes money and that's kinda all it does. They might as well be stand alone games rather than a part of Warframe. They have very little impact on the game because they are essentially hard resets that eventually end and once they end players do not go back unless baited to do so with more time sink development.

I don't feel we've really gained much as a functional game over the past 2 years and so I can't support  their new direction.

I'm not quite sure what your main issue is. You correlate a lack of increased average players with DE releasing landscape content, but I think there are a variety of issues with the game that could prevent lots of players from playing more frequently or staying interested, including how hard it is to get into Warframe. While DE is addressing some of the issues, I think its a pretty weak argument to say that it's specifically because they've been releasing landscapes.

Importantly though, I think your interpretation of the data (I'm assuming you're looking at steam charts) significantly misrepresents what happened. DE publicized the coming release of the PoE, and low and behold average player numbers soared. During the time between said publicity and the actual release their average player numbers had already started to tank (I would argue in part due to the new player experience). However, since the whole PoE tease and release, the game has seen consistently much higher numbers of average players. The average player number has actually never dropped below pre-PoE tease levels since then, so pretty clearly average consistent players have also increased if we compare between the two eras. I would say that's a success, and as you've pointed out what other major content has been added since then to keep those numbers higher than before besides PoE and Fortuna? 

Even if your analysis was valid, you blame open world areas and content for... what exactly? What is inherently tied to open world areas that has been holding back the game? You say these things are hard resets, but that's more related to the economy, reputation setup and rewards- not fundamental to open-world areas. As a result you suggest they just abandon open world content instead of fixing your specific issues with said content- content that has been invested in to the point where DE clearly won't just "stop doing it", especially since they seem happy with the results of PoE and Fortuna- doesn't seem like constructive criticism. 

If you want system reworks? It's true they've been lagging on that front, but as the game becomes more developed and complex I think its fair to anticipate slower reworks of already established systems. More story content? That's always in the works. Boss fights? PoE and Fortuna have some of the better ones. More mods and weapons and Warframes? They've been delivering. Warframe reworks? DE has always been bad at keeping up with those when they're needed. 

Ultimately, landscaped areas add more diversity to the game, and offer a new alternative to tileset-randomized-corridor-world. Landscapes need some serious changes in terms of content density, how well they work with existing mobility, and adding more randomized content, but I don't see how adding lore elements and new enemies to a new location instead of just reskinning the same randomized algorithm rooms is what's limiting the game. If anything it seems like a vehicle for content and missions that has more potential, and could have more polish than tile-sets. 

Edited by Jamescell
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've updated the post so that there is a TLDR for every section before the actual content. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most of those suggestions will not add anything interesting for me personally. While I like mining, I dislike fishing, and capturing animals is boring too. For me, an expansion of these systems would amount to no content added. While your terrain suggestions are easy to implement, as well as common animals roaming, the rest is quite a bit of work for very little return.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Not to throw out what you've suggested, but it's not a lack of interaction or depth that's tiring people of playing, it's the endless grind and poor core design. Why do hours and hours need to be invested into polishing a broken system instead of fixing the route problems? The game has become mind-numbingly bad in terms of gating new weapons, frames, and specialty items/currency behind massive time gates. PoE/Fortuna aren't all that great but I could survive them being in such meh shape if I weren't forced to spend ridiculous amounts of time there doing content that I don't really enjoy and instead simply got to go and enjoy the zones mostly for hoots and toots while making steady progress.

As to the second issue I mentioned: DE doe not know how to design fights for the life of them. Every single new major boss fight right up to this newest one with the Jovian update has been a hodgepodge of 10,000 flashing lights and effects on screen while trying to perform tight mechanics and trying to survive DE's poorly-implemented netcode. DE has one speed and that's a lot of flash, a lot of boss i-frames, a lot of teleportation by the boss, and a lot of phase changes to drag the fights out. These are the things that need reworks before all the fluff systems get polishing. I'm not discounting your suggestions as being worthwhile, but they're not really worth much with the current state the game is and that DE continues to double down on.

Edited by True_Naeblis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-06-07 at 1:13 PM, True_Naeblis said:

Not to throw out what you've suggested, but it's not a lack of interaction or depth that's tiring people of playing, it's the endless grind and poor core design. Why do hours and hours need to be invested into polishing a broken system instead of fixing the route problems? The game has become mind-numbingly bad in terms of gating new weapons, frames, and specialty items/currency behind massive time gates. PoE/Fortuna aren't all that great but I could survive them being in such meh shape if I weren't forced to spend ridiculous amounts of time there doing content that I don't really enjoy and instead simply got to go and enjoy the zones mostly for hoots and toots while making steady progress.

As to the second issue I mentioned: DE doe not know how to design fights for the life of them. Every single new major boss fight right up to this newest one with the Jovian update has been a hodgepodge of 10,000 flashing lights and effects on screen while trying to perform tight mechanics and trying to survive DE's poorly-implemented netcode. DE has one speed and that's a lot of flash, a lot of boss i-frames, a lot of teleportation by the boss, and a lot of phase changes to drag the fights out. These are the things that need reworks before all the fluff systems get polishing. I'm not discounting your suggestions as being worthwhile, but they're not really worth much with the current state the game is and that DE continues to double down on.

I don't think what I aim to improve on here is depth. I'm not exactly sure what that even means in terms of open world areas. What I would hope to see, through these suggestions is the creation of something that feels much more alive, in order to allow players to- like you say- "go and enjoy the zones mostly for hoots and toots while making steady progress". At the moment I find both areas relatively barren in terms of environmental immersion and interaction. I think I'd get bored rather quickly on the plains or Orb Vallis without at least some general goal in mind because the rewarding activities available are very limited, repetitive, and simple. I think you do make a good point, though, about being required to do content that isn't really enjoyable. I plan to add a final section to this post in a bit that suggests some reforms to the economy and reward system which I think would address some of the issues around how isolated and forcibly repetitive the open world content is. 

As far as boss fights go, I think the Eidolons are some of the best. The scale, the complexity, and the pacing are all pretty great in my opinion. From what I've seen of the Orb fights, they offer a similar appeal. The phase changes are appropriate for a something of that magnitude, and they only teleport if you don't do the fight right. 

It seems like you have a false dilemma going here. There are a bunch of different aspects of the game that could be added to or improved, and DE is working on multiple facets at once, all the time. Given where Warframe is, we don't have to pick and choose. Open world content deserves to be as interesting and interactive as I suggest, and I simply hope that DE will see my suggestions when they are willing to update open world content. It's not a matter of what deserves to be first on the chopping block. I'm not saying this needs to happen now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally love your suggestions because I'm a big fun on immersion, but seeing some of the comments, it really depends on what other players want from the game. It's just like the recent Plague Star event, I myself is the first time doing it, it blew me away on the 1st run, but after you run the same bounty 50+ times, no amount of better open-world designs would compensate the grindiness of the game. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...