Another 5200 Kuva down the drain

[VanFanel1980mx]

Got past 20 minutes, critical life support levels, time to extract, the others get ahead of me, I get into the extraction point but the host was extracted first, host migration in progress... NETWORK warning, got logged off, get back in, I lost my rewards, should we the players do some research and see how much it would cost DE to actually implement dedicated servers?

[WhiteMarker]

5 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

should we the players do some research and see how much it would cost DE to actually implement dedicated servers?

I'm curious on how exactly you want to calculate that.

[VanFanel1980mx]

Just now, WhiteMarker said:

I'm curious on how exactly you want to calculate that.

You just check server rental pages here and there, check the costs and then see how much it costs to rent a number of servers per year, then you compare the amount needed with the total cost of running Tennocon.

[WhiteMarker]

Just now, VanFanel1980mx said:

You just check server rental pages here and there, check the costs and then see how much it costs to rent a number of servers per year, then you compare the amount needed with the total cost of running Tennocon.

Having just some server here and there won't do anything.
You need a special server structure for everything to work properly.

So yeah, go ahead, show me how cheap it would be for DE to host the whole game on server.
Btw. where would these servers be located? In the DE office in London, Canada? The lagg will be fun as hell.

[Zelmen]

6 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

You just check server rental pages here and there, check the costs and then see how much it costs to rent a number of servers per year, then you compare the amount needed with the total cost of running Tennocon.

Tennocon is a paid event, warframe is a FREE to play game. You can't compare the two. Tennocon in theory is profitable event based off tickets and "Swag" gear. Still only allows those that paid to get in.

There is a simple solution to this. Everyone just maintains their own loot and the host only has to remember stat numbers. Not trying to fix host migration issues with this comment. Just trying to stop getting F'ed over.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Zelmen

[VanFanel1980mx]

1 minute ago, WhiteMarker said:

Having just some server here and there won't do anything.
You need a special server structure for everything to work properly.

So yeah, go ahead, show me how cheap it would be for DE to host the whole game on server.
Btw. where would these servers be located? In the DE office in London, Canada? The lagg will be fun as hell.

We just need to know what server structure is needed and the optimal locations, you are certainly very pessimistic.

[VanFanel1980mx]

Just now, Zelmen said:

Tennocon is a paid event, warframe is a FREE to play game. You can't compare the two. Tennocon in theory is profitable event based off tickets and "Swag" gear.

There is a simple solution to this. Everyone just maintains their own loot and the host only has to remember stat numbers.

Precisely because it is a paid event, where does that money come from? if I said Tennocon's profits then you would have a point but I am talking about the cost of putting up a convention compared to the cost of putting up the servers needed, that is, if you get enough to run a convention once a year and it costs the same as the servers you would consider to evaluate your priorities, if it is more expensive then I can say poor DE is starving for the millionth time.

[WhiteMarker]

3 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

We just need to know what server structure is needed and the optimal locations, you are certainly very pessimistic.

And how will you figure out the server structure?
How will you figure out the optimal locations?
How will you figure out how much money DE makes?

I'm far from persimistic. I'm a realist.

1 minute ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Precisely because it is a paid event, where does that money come from?

From ticket sales and from merch sales during the convention...
Do you pay a monthly fee to play the game? óÒ

Edited May 16, 2019 by WhiteMarker

[Zelmen]

2 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Precisely because it is a paid event, where does that money come from? if I said Tennocon's profits then you would have a point but I am talking about the cost of putting up a convention compared to the cost of putting up the servers needed, that is, if you get enough to run a convention once a year and it costs the same as the servers you would consider to evaluate your priorities, if it is more expensive then I can say poor DE is starving for the millionth time.

You're still comparing the two. Warframe would have to have a subscription to be on the same level as tennocon. To repeat you're condescending remark, where does DE get the money to maintain servers?

Tennocon > One time paid ticket for one time event
Warframe > Free game with large amount of player base not putting a dime into their pocket. + free Servers?

Edited May 16, 2019 by Zelmen

[VanFanel1980mx]

Just now, WhiteMarker said:

And how will you figure out the server structure?
How will you figure out the optimal locations?
How will you figure out how much money DE makes?

I'm far from persimistic. I'm a realist.

All that data is something we can either ask or DE has already disclosed, is not even how much money they make, just how much it costs to put up Tennocon, that's the trick to know how much they can shell out at once.

[VanFanel1980mx]

2 minutes ago, Zelmen said:

You're still comparing the two. Warframe would have to have a subscription to be on the same level as tennocon.

How? doesn't DE pay upfront all the costs of the place and the logistics of the event?

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

just how much it costs to put up Tennocon, that's the trick to know how much they can shell out at once.

Shell out some money at one time of the year is something else. For servers they have to put out money constantly.

2 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

All that data is something we can either ask or DE has already disclosed

Then go ahead. Get these information and come back when you have it.

[Zelmen]

3 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

How? doesn't DE pay upfront all the costs of the place and the logistics of the event?

Like a credit card company lets you use their card. They expect to make their money back and then some at tennocon. It's a lossless event for them. Servers will be at a loss if no addition income happens monthly, so you would need subscriptions. 

Edit: Other option would be cut in staff and content would be released slower.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Zelmen

[AXCrusnik]

4 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

How? doesn't DE pay upfront all the costs of the place and the logistics of the event?

Dedicated Servers don't print money... People pay to get into tennocon and buy merch...

[VanFanel1980mx]

Just now, WhiteMarker said:

Shell out some money at one time of the year is something else. For servers they have to put out money constantly.

Actually you can rent for X amount of time depending on plans you select, per month, per six months, etc.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Actually you can rent for X amount of time depending on plans you select, per month, per six months, etc.

That's for private use. DE doesn't get such deals.
You just have no idea what you are talking about. ^^

[Zelmen]

2 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Actually you can rent for X amount of time depending on plans you select, per month, per six months, etc.

Even if they did get a plan rate, what do you think happens after that selected time period? You put more money in as White said or no more servers.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Zelmen

[VanFanel1980mx]

1 minute ago, AXCrusnik said:

Dedicated Servers don't print money... People pay to get into tennocon and buy merch...

Doesn't Warframe bring revenue at all?

[AXCrusnik]

3 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Doesn't Warframe bring revenue at all?

It does. Dedicated servers won't add much to that revenue unless we have to pay for access to them. I doubt the people satisfied enough with the addition will spend enough extra money because of it to make up for the costs if they were free to access.

Edited May 16, 2019 by AXCrusnik

[Zelmen]

2 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Doesn't Warframe bring revenue at all?

All revenue is paid to staff and overhead currently. You either will have to cut staff and move money around or find another way to make more money. At the scale they would need for servers you are looking at subs.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Zelmen

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Doesn't Warframe bring revenue at all?

The money Warframe makes now is enough to keep DE alive. It works out.
Servers cost money. But DE won't make more money.
So in the end DE will lose money because of that.
Don't you understand that?

[VanFanel1980mx]

Just now, WhiteMarker said:

The money Warframe makes now is enough to keep DE alive. It works out.

OK, then it is as I suspected, they only break even with the game as it has been for years now once again, wait, so we actually know how much they make and how tight the budget is? I thought we wouldn't know, anyway that's a shame.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

OK, then it is as I suspected, they only break even with the game as it has been for years now once again, wait, so we actually know how much they make and how tight the budget is? I thought we wouldn't know, anyway that's a shame.

No need for sarcasm.
Even if DE made lots and lots of money and has reserves, they have to make plans for the future.
Reserves won't support them forever. If they had reserves, and these reserves were to run out, what then? What if they were to run out of money. What if they couldn't pay for the servers anymore?

Again, would you please start calculating all of this. I want to see it. 

[Genitive]

I searched the internet, and the most specific answer regarding server cost was ~$1,800 per 7000 active connections. If we believe this estimation and average daily Warframe players at 50000 per day, we get almost $13,000 a month for only server upkeep.

Source: https://www.quora.com/How-much-would-it-cost-to-get-servers-for-a-MMO-RTS-game

I assume Tennocon cost is around $100,000. Internet sources vary on convention costs, but this I think this is a safe assumption. And ticket and merch sales probably cover the cost of the convention and more.

Even if the numbers I provided are off it is not worth to set up dedicated servers when you can spend the money elsewhere – software, staff, voice acting, equipment.

5 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

OK, then it is as I suspected, they only break even with the game as it has been for years now once again, wait, so we actually know how much they make and how tight the budget is? I thought we wouldn't know, anyway that's a shame.

"Suspected". You don't suspect anything if you have no idea about their finances.

http://www.files.services/files/359/2019/0327/20190327230001_74545416_en.pdf

Have a quote: In 2018, the Group’s performance achieved considerable growth. Driven by the flagship product Warframe , the total revenue for the year reached US$227.7 million, representing a year-on-year increase of 36.6%. Gross profit margin slightly reduced from 66.4% in 2017 to 62.1% in 2018, and gross profit increased by US$30.7 million year-on-year to US$141.5 million; profit attributable to the owners of the Company and the Group’s EBITDA were US$20.4 million and US$67.0 million, respectively, increasing by 131.8% and 39.3% over 2017. Such increases were mainly attributable to the growth in gross profit. 

[VanFanel1980mx]

2 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

No need for sarcasm.
Even if DE made lots and lots of money and has reserves, they have to make plans for the future.
Reserves won't support them forever. If they had reserves, and these reserves were to run out, what then? What if they were to run out of money. What if they couldn't pay for the servers anymore?

Again, would you please start calculating all of this. I want to see it. 

I am dead serious, if anything I am confused on how much we know or we don't know depending on the situation.