Scott Says The Stamina Bar Wasn't Relevant...

[Toom1275]

Problem with trying to make stamina relevent is the limited modspace. Even though it was so bad directly acter U10, the mods we already have in are loadouts are STILL orders of magnitude more important to keep than to replace with stamina mods, even if it means we can't run anymore.

[Brimir]

Doesn't nerf flinging you 50m+, but nerfs using slide attacks as your main source of movement.

 

Nope. You can still slide at 0 Stamina.

[gell]

What's the purpose of stamina in any game? Answer this first, and then ask how it does or doesn't fit in Warframe.

 

And no, I don't think that being a "ninja" exempts you from having to moderate yourself sometimes, just as it doesn't mean you have magical unlimited health or a true ninja would never be seen so shouldn't we all be invisible all the time (yes I know you basically can be with Loki)?

Edited September 18, 2013 by gell

[Khranitel]

"Nerf rushers" screamers need it. So they act like little turtles and be the slow ninjas.

I wish that we've still have downvote button.

[Norfair]

In fairness, for a game that touts mobility having a limitation on our mobility such as a stamina bar is a poor idea.

I agree, the stamina bar's relation to movement should be done away with.

However, in terms of blocking, parrying and dodging there should be a cost.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only person who felt like stamina was a shoehorned system, at least in relation to basic movement (i.e. sprinting). Exactly as J-Pax has said, basing the game around mobility and then limiting some of the most basic mobility is illogical. Things that would tax your character more, like wallrunning, dodging, or deflecting attacks (not just holding your weapon up) should cost stamina, on the other hand... possibly more than they do now. Though I would like to see those system polished/made useful rather a bit more before we start messing with integrating Stamina with them. For example, dodging is still pretty slow for a space ninja (and looks silly to boot), and I have yet to find a practical use for wallrunning beyond the areas its forced upon you to progress (and, in fact, at times bypassing the wallrunning area entirely with a staircase is more efficient and less frustrating). Granted, I may be expecting too much of the 'spectacle fighter' feel from Warframe. For me, I will always be constantly comparing it to Ninja Gaiden (Xbox version, that is), fairly or otherwise.

 

That said, stamina could be an interesting limiter for melee/"gun kata" combos or such, in that vein of Ninja Gaiden comparison? Though that is probably a different topic entirely...

[Neruell]

They should just fix the sliding bug so no one can fly across maps while sliding, aka make it like with kunais.

[Vykinger]

In fairness, for a game that touts mobility having a limitation on our mobility such as a stamina bar is a poor idea.

 

 

I agree, the stamina bar's relation to movement should be done away with.

 

 

However, in terms of blocking, parrying and dodging there should be a cost.

^^

 

Two thumbs up!

[Thaumatos]

His answer was to add a system that hindered us so that we would notice the bar. My answer is to just get rid of it altogether.

 

If a system isn't relevant why force it to be? Do we really need a stamina bar?

 

You did notice the bar.  You always noticed the bar.  You just had ways of playing the game to get around the bar.

 

Now you no longer do.

 

Sounds like someone is just mad to me.  Play, adapt, suck it up that you can't sprint forever without sprint mods now.

[litlit]

It's pretty much inexhaustible atm if you know to slide every x seconds while running, but if you remove it as a limited resource altogether you'd never need to stop running, and you could parry/dodge forever, I don't know what the solution is, I can see his point about it being pointless to keep tabs on currently but the initial change they did was way too harsh, you could only run for a couple seconds very far apart, which was ridiculous, in Warframe you're running most of the time, I only walk when I try to aim carefully with some hitscan weapon.

 

Solution: stamina is for blocking only. Movement does not require stamina.

 

It's that simple.

[holyicon]

It's pretty much inexhaustible atm if you know to slide every x seconds while running, but if you remove it as a limited resource altogether you'd never need to stop running, and you could parry/dodge forever, I don't know what the solution is, I can see his point about it being pointless to keep tabs on currently but the initial change they did was way too harsh, you could only run for a couple seconds very far apart, which was ridiculous, in Warframe you're running most of the time, I only walk when I try to aim carefully with some hitscan weapon.

 

Well, you put a "gate" on some actions but not others.

 

Example.

Running and Jumping still drain stamina, but may be done even when the bar is empty.

Everything else requiring stamina (such as wall-running, dodging, guarding, slide-attack, jump-attack, executions, etc...), become unavailable below 10% of the stamina bar.

There is no delay before stamina begins to recover.

And stamina does not recover while: sliding, airborne or rolling.

 

{{ I think I'll be posting this (in an edited an more thought-out form) as an independent suggestion in the "Warframe Feedback" section }}

[RoboDoge]

I wish that we've still have downvote button.

And you my fellow Tenno are man with no sense of humor.

 

This all "stamina" stuff is splitting community in 2 groups, people who rush and those who want to explore. While this game is pure grindfest with no valuable reason for going exploring every nook and cranny, people will rush.

 

If there is capture mission with Potato as reward, nobody will bother with resources and xp. People will just rush to get it.

 

People that scream "nerf rushers" are just plain stupid and selfish. Rather then forcing others to their gameplay style, they should first try to understand the reasons for other people rushing. But again, people who join Online games and rush are idiots of their kind.

Edited September 18, 2013 by RoboDog

[Fretless]

You did notice the bar.  You always noticed the bar.  You just had ways of playing the game to get around the bar.

 

Now you no longer do.

 

Sounds like someone is just mad to me.  Play, adapt, suck it up that you can't sprint forever without sprint mods now.

Getting around the bar was part of the fun though.  Maybe the developers don't understand that.

[Tazmanyak]

If parry/avoid was relevant, then the whole stamina system would be. If you run in a group of ennemies with stamina bar almost depleted, and if avoid/parry was usefull, then you could find yourself in a difficult situation by not being able to parry/avoid.

Sadly; parrying and avoiding are totally useless, pressing 4 is a good way to get rid of almost all difficult situation.

So stamina is just needed for running, and some rare wallruns.

 

In my opinion, response to samina would be "make parry and avoid usefull, in game core mecanics - dont add #@% mods to patch your failure. revamp the whole system. rewrite from scratch"

 

And yes (then no to op) we need a stamina bar.

[OblivionNecroninja]

"Nerf rushers" screamers need it. So they act like little turtles and be the slow ninjas.

Hey, I dislike rushers, but I was NOT calling for a stamina nerf.

 

That said, I do like the latest version of the stamina system: it impacts frames that SHOULD be impacted (like Vauban) without severly impacting frames that shouldn't (like Loki and Nova)

Edited September 18, 2013 by OblivionNecroninja

[Volume]

My answer is make sprinting not cost stamina.

 

Just make it for blocking, parrying, dodging, wallrunning, maybe rolling, melee, etc.

 

Not for running.

[RoboDoge]

My answer is make sprinting not cost stamina.

 

Just make it for blocking, parrying, dodging, wallrunning, maybe rolling, melee, etc.

 

Not for running.

And make all that more viable, we need enemies that will make us dodge and block. And more places for parkour.

[Jinart]

In fairness, for a game that touts mobility having a limitation on our mobility such as a stamina bar is a poor idea.

 

 

I agree, the stamina bar's relation to movement should be done away with.

 

 

However, in terms of blocking, parrying and dodging there should be a cost.

Agreed! Ninjas have great stamina anyways, they are conditioned to have a great endurance since they are, as you may know, ninjas! So yeah, ninjas that can't run, after 8 seconds, kinda of non-ninja :P

[Volume]

And make all that more viable, we need enemies that will make us dodge and block. And more places for parkour.

 

Agreed 100%.

 

Somewhat related, it would be nice to have a system in place to reward us for using those mechanics. Some kind of sexy combo system with counter-attacks from blocks/parries would be cool too. Maybe a player could counter-melee off a Grineer Scorpion or Flameblade or something.

I feel like the game should be designed to reward active and well-timed blocking/parrying rewarding to the player. Whether it's some bonus points that might convert to credits or a better "mission rating" or just a really cool animation that makes them feel cool, something should be done. Haha.

[whitejackale]

His answer was to add a system that hindered us so that we would notice the bar. My answer is to just get rid of it altogether.

 

If a system isn't relevant why force it to be? Do we really need a stamina bar?

While they are at it they should remove normal running speed since we are able to sprint 100% of the time.

[Xylia]

IMO:

 

Keep the Stamina bar, but take Sprinting off of it.

 

Make it so that Sprinting no longer depletes stamina at all. That way we can sprint as much as we want.

 

Then what?

 

Improve blocking, make blocking drain stamina. Make it cost Stamina to jump, roll, dodge, etc. Make Charged attacks drain Stamina at a large rate (because you're putting a lot of strength into a charged attack), maybe.

 

But I always thought that the Run Slide Run Slide Run Slide Run Slide was kinda silly. Just as silly as older FPS games where you'd sprint for 10 feet, jog for 5 feet, sprint for 10 feet, jog for 5 feet, sprint for 10 feet.

[Bloomers]

My answer is make sprinting not cost stamina.

 

Just make it for blocking, parrying, dodging, wallrunning, maybe rolling, melee, etc.

 

Not for running.

This idea is fantastic at first, but it just really makes the stamina bar even more irrelevant than before.  Quite frankly movement is the only thing you should ever really need that can use a stamina system. Wall running isn't enough to warrant it, damage mitigation is fine-ish but avoiding getting hit all together is easier with sprinting.  Melee is the only real option but melee is barely worth its keep since we've had capable guns for a while now, and it isn't dynamic enough to warrant stamina to begin with.

 

I hate to admit it but removing stamina is really the only valid option other than to keep it where it is.  At least till new mechanics make it in somehow.

[holyicon]

This idea is fantastic at first, but it just really makes the stamina bar even more irrelevant than before.  Quite frankly movement is the only thing you should ever really need that can use a stamina system. Wall running isn't enough to warrant it, damage mitigation is fine-ish but avoiding getting hit all together is easier with sprinting.  Melee is the only real option but melee is barely worth its keep since we've had capable guns for a while now, and it isn't dynamic enough to warrant stamina to begin with.

 

I hate to admit it but removing stamina is really the only valid option other than to keep it where it is.  At least till new mechanics make it in somehow.

 

If Sprinting, jumping and basic melee attacks still cost stamina, but could still be used at zero stamina. I think that's a valid compromise.

Provided that stamina no longer recovers during slides and rolling.

Edited September 19, 2013 by holyicon

[RoboDoge]

If Sprinting, jumping and basic melee attacks still cost stamina, but could still be used at zero stamina. I think that's a valid compromise.

Provided that stamina no longer recovers during slides and rolling.

While people are discussing stamina change, nobody is paying attention to a game breaking mechanic called Zorencoptering. While we have that availible, stamina is getting irrelevant.

[holyicon]

While people are discussing stamina change, nobody is paying attention to a game breaking mechanic called Zorencoptering. While we have that availible, stamina is getting irrelevant.

Ahh... but I DID address that in my post about stamina, that only has a few views...

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/109444-u11-holyicons-stamina-suggestion-fatigue/

 

It's not that no one is addressing it, it's that no one is addressing it in a sexy post.

[-Kittens-]

The change didn't make it relevant it just made it annoying.  The only down side was having to wait a second before wall running.

 

I have load outs with Marathon/Quickrest/Rush and I have loadouts without, and some with just one or two.  If I move to a loadout that has none after playing with them all?  I notice it.  The extent of the nerf was such that it was annoying even with all three. (granted not maxed) but yeah.

There is a difference between having something be relevant and having something be a hindrance.

 

Only if you're a rusher.

 

I must say the irony of this concept is deliciously hilarious.

 

"oh noes, I can't skip content anymore without mods."

 

1. Mods, common mods most players already have

 

2. Yeeeah, you're not really playing the game to begin with, you're flying through the stuff you would be playing to get to the exit. That's OCD festish recursion, not playing.

 

You're basically saying Scott forced you to PLAY THE GAME and that annoys you.

 

right.