Low disposition rviens are useless, just delete them or remove entirely, please

[IllogicalLogic420]

Here's the typical: "you're game is great, yadda yadda, i love it anyway" but you should know by now I love this game. I don't need to praise it every single time i make a post for "constructive criticism" :P But I do it anyway. The game really is beautiful, very well done, good job.

 

Ok so, RIVENS.

Low disposition ones.....why do they even exist in this game? What is the point, other than a slap in the face and a "ha ha lel kek you got trolled, loser" from the game itself/from DE?

A simple 60/60 mod is a world better than any low dispo riven, so why do those rivens even exist? It's a waste of bytes, hope, and.....everything. If the weapon is too powerful for a higher dispo riven.....then either: nerf the weapon a bit, or.........remove rivens for it.

What is the point is unlocking a stressfully hard riven for a low dispo weapon, that you eventually get after farming and grinding for eons, or, whatever......only to have some low quality trash shoved in our faces? It's not even worth selling to anyone. It isn't worth the time or effort.

You can all see my point. I sincerely hope so. If not, you're either fanatical, or a troll.

Seriously, why even bother? Nothing good comes from this, only bad. And only a more sour taste in our mouths towards you, DE.

Though, this game is too delicious, it washes away any sour taste it gives me. So good job. Just please, what the hell is with the riven system....this is just one, of many shared complaints/issues the community has about rivens.

[Chipputer]

Because low disposition rivens can become high disposition rivens if the meta shifts. There's a bigger picture you're missing, here.

[NinjaKitsune56]

And you know how many people would be irate if those low disposition rivens vanished? A LOT, myself included. Why? Because disposition changes on a 3-month cycle. Some go up, some go down. But every weapon has a riven. And even those low disposition rivens can make a difference when they're used. People complain, because they love to complain. S#&$ happens. Wipe, flush, and get on with life.

[IllogicalLogic420]

Just now, Chipputer said:

Because low disposition rivens can become high disposition rivens if the meta shifts. There's a bigger picture you're missing, here.

Oh I know about that; I see the bigger, but do you? That "bigger picture" ties into one of the major issues about rivens. The entire system is flawed, and either needs to be removed, or rebuilt from scratch.

[IllogicalLogic420]

1 minute ago, NinjaKitsune56 said:

And you know how many people would be irate if those low disposition rivens vanished? A LOT, myself included. Why? Because disposition changes on a 3-month cycle. Some go up, some go down. But every weapon has a riven. And even those low disposition rivens can make a difference when they're used. People complain, because they love to complain. S#&$ happens. Wipe, flush, and get on with life.

Good thing this is an actual issue and not complaining just to complain. If you don't agree, that's fine, but don't go putting words or intent in people's mouths.

So if a low dispo riven can be useful somehow, that only adds the wealth of burdens that rivens come with.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Yet again, someone who doesn't know what rivens are for. I'll explain. They are meant to make unpopular weapons more relevant and wanted. Therefore, no matter the weapon, there should be a riven for it. But that also means there must be a ranking system in order to benefit only the ones which need it.

Deleting rivens for specific weapons just because you personally don't see them as worthwhile is bad for several reasons:

• People who still find a use for them even as Disposition 1 have that option removed for them, all because someone didn't want to use them. All in all, just because you dislike something it does not mean others won't.
• If a weapon is somehow nerfed (Let's use Simulor as an example) and people stop using it, it means sooner or later the disposition for Simulor will rise again, making those Disposition 1 rivens into higher dispositions. If the devs deleted the Simulor rivens when it was D1 you wouldn't have them at the Disposition they are right now. It's all about change and adaptation.

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

Oh I know about that; I see the bigger, but do you? That "bigger picture" ties into one of the major issues about rivens. The entire system is flawed, and either needs to be removed, or rebuilt from scratch.

Your post doesn't hint at any other problems the rivens have except that you're disappointed at getting low disposition rivens. What does this have to do with the fact that rivens are an ultimately pointless system of slot machine RNG that encourage people to endlessly grind for a resource in hopes they get what they want only to repeat the process with the next weapon?

Low disposition rivens have the possibility of raising in disposition and becoming useful. That's your post's entire complaint.

[IllogicalLogic420]

Just now, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Yet again, someone who doesn't know what rivens are for. I'll explain. They are meant to make unpopular weapons more relevant and wanted. Therefore, no matter the weapon, there should be a riven for it. But that also means there must be a ranking system in order to benefit only the ones which need it.

Deleting rivens for specific weapons just because you personally don't see them as worthwhile is bad for several reasons:

• People who still find a use for them even as Disposition 1 have that option removed for them, all because someone didn't want to use them. All in all, just because you dislike something it does not mean others won't.
• If a weapon is somehow nerfed (Let's use Simulor as an example) and people stop using it, it means sooner or later the disposition for Simulor will rise again, making those Disposition 1 rivens into higher dispositions. If the devs deleted the Simulor rivens when it was D1 you wouldn't have them at the Disposition they are right now. It's all about change and adaptation.

I know about rivens and how the system works, and I don't agree with it. It's flawed in too many ways. But this post is about one of those ways.

bullet 1: yeah i agree, thats wasnt what i was saying though

bullet 2: thats another reason why the system needs changing

[Voltage]

I use a Lecta Riven on my Secura Lecta. I also own Riven Mods for below-neutral dispositions. I think you fail to understand how exactly Riven Mods work and how even low disposition weapons can benefit from the right roll.

We shouldn't just remove items because of disagreement with how the system functions or is intended. If you don't like low disposition Riven Mods, just don't get them lol.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Voltage

[IllogicalLogic420]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

Your post doesn't hint at any other problems the rivens have except that you're disappointed at getting low disposition rivens. What does this have to do with the fact that rivens are an ultimately pointless system of slot machine RNG that encourage people to endlessly grind for a resource in hopes they get what they want only to repeat the process with the next weapon?

Low disposition rivens have the possibility of raising in disposition and becoming useful. That's your post's entire complaint.

It's is a slot machine, but that isnt what the topic is about. The topic is about one single issue for rivens. Nothing more, nothing less. We can talk about the whole of all the issues, if you wish.

Riven stats changing is also very bad. Needs to be changed.

I speak based on much consideration and thought put in over months.

Edited May 18, 2019 by IllogicalLogic420

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

5 minutes ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

I know about rivens and how the system works, and I don't agree with it. It's flawed in too many ways. But this post is about one of those ways.

bullet 1: yeah i agree, thats wasnt what i was saying though

bullet 2: thats another reason why the system needs changing

That it is a flawed system I agree. Deeply at that. I see it as a slot machine, even if it has some good aspects to it. But unfortunately it doesn't seem like it's changing anytime soon, so we might as well have some logic to it while it's here, for the better or worse.

[IllogicalLogic420]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

I use a Lecta Riven on my Secura Lecta. I also own Riven Mods for below-neutral dispositions. I think you fail to understand how exactly Riven Mods work and how even low disposition weapons can benefit from the right roll.

We shouldn't just remove items because of disagreement with how the system functions or is intended. If you don't like low disposition Riven Mods, just don't get them lol.

Yeah you know, because we ALL have the power to make RNG bend to our will, lol /s

I didn't choose to have low dispo rivens, the game chose for me hahahaha

And I see how low dispo rivens can be useful.....but thats extremely niche and hard to find a correct matchup, its just a burden that isnt worth the payout.

[IllogicalLogic420]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

That it is a flawed system I agree. Deeply at that. I see it as a slot machine, even if it has some good aspects to it. But unfortunately it doesn't seem like it's changing anytime soon, so we might as well have some logic to it while it's here, for the better or worse.

If DE straight up said "yeah its supposed to be like a slot machine" then ok, ill accept it. But iirc they didnt intend for it to be exactly as such. I could be wrong. If they intended it as a full-fledged slot machine, then my post is pointless.

[Voltage]

Just now, IllogicalLogic420 said:

Yeah you know, because we ALL have the power to make RNG bend to our will, lol /s

I didn't choose to have low dispo rivens, the game chose for me hahahaha

And I see how low dispo rivens can be useful.....but thats extremely niche and hard to find a correct matchup, its just a burden that isnt worth the payout.

You either invest in the system, or Endo/Sell the stuff you don't want. What's wrong with something being good when it's niche? It's not worth the payout to you, but it's worth it to other players like myself. Again, if you don't like low disposition Rivens, just don't get them or keep them to begin with.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

5 minutes ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

If DE straight up said "yeah its supposed to be like a slot machine" then ok, ill accept it. But iirc they didnt intend for it to be exactly as such. I could be wrong. If they intended it as a full-fledged slot machine, then my post is pointless.

I also believe they did not intend it to be like that. It seems they underestimated how much players would use them, and the absurd amounts of plat (even the whole Semlar and Riven Mafia thing) being traded. But it still irks me that most people, sometimes even DE, brag about how they're the company who deleted the famous Kubrow slot machine, but now have a much bigger one.

So yes, I do believe it's an unintended outcome, and that DE has good intentions, but I wish they made it right and respected this thing they are famous for by adjusting the rivens at least in order to remove the slot machine aspect of it.

[IllogicalLogic420]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

You either invest in the system, or Endo/Sell the stuff you don't want. What's wrong with something being good when it's niche? It's not worth the payout to you, but it's worth it to other players like myself. Again, if you don't like low disposition Rivens, just don't get them or keep them to begin with.

Well at this point, before I feel any type of way, I guess i need to understand DE's intent behind rivens. The problem is that, it's so reliant on rng, that you can roll 50 trash rivens before getting 1, slight maybe decent one.

Or maybe you get lucky and get a god-tier riven on your first try, then have this illusion that the system is great, because you've never experienced otherwise. I have experience getting god-tier on unroll, and jack S#&$ after tens of times.

[zoffmode]

13 minutes ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

You can all see my point. I sincerely hope so. If not, you're either fanatical, or a troll.

Oh damn, so we can't disagree, huh?

Alright then. I disagree. Plenty of disposition 1 rivens that I use and value.

Super meta weapons eventually get lowest disposition and then you don't need to feel sad about not getting that riven. That's fine. Actually, that's better since then more people can use the weapon and not feel like they're missing much. BUT if you do get a riven and you like the weapon, you simply have more options. You can still get a good roll or just get nice utility mod combo. Nothing horrible about that.

[IllogicalLogic420]

Just now, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

I also believe they did not intend it to be like that. It seems they underestimated how much players would use them, and the absurd amounts of plat (even the whole Semlar and Riven Mafia thing) being traded. But it still irks me that most people, sometimes even DE, brag about how they're the company who deleted the famous Kubrow slot machine, but now have a much bigger one.

So yes, I do believe it's an unintended outcome, and that DE has good intentions, but I wish they made it right and respected this thing they are famous for by adjusting the rivens at least in order to remove the slot machine aspect of it.

Well said!

[IllogicalLogic420]

Just now, zoffmode said:

Oh damn, so we can't disagree, huh?

Alright then. I disagree. Plenty of disposition 1 rivens that I use and value.

Super meta weapons eventually get lowest disposition and then you don't need to feel sad about not getting that riven. That's fine. Actually, that's better since then more people can use the weapon and not feel like they're missing much. BUT if you do get a riven and you like the weapon, you simply have more options. You can still get a good roll or just get nice utility mod combo. Nothing horrible about that.

No you're not allowed to disagree. It's unlawful and sinful. /s

Lol, joking aside....good input, but then you have the issue of buying a riven that is good, only to have it end up being trash months later, because dispo changes, and pray and hope it gets a dispo buff again, if ever.

[Test-995]

20 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Because low disposition rivens can become high disposition rivens if the meta shifts. There's a bigger picture you're missing, here.

Well maybe not for this day, they decided to balance things based on "actual power", instead of popularity.

If they thought "Rubico is extremely strong weapons, let's change it to minimum dispo", i doubt they gonna buff dispos after that.

[zoffmode]

Just now, IllogicalLogic420 said:

No you're not allowed to disagree. It's unlawful and sinful. /s

Lol, joking aside....good input, but then you have the issue of buying a riven that is good, only to have it end up being trash months later, because dispo changes, and pray and hope it gets a dispo buff again, if ever.

Well, that's more of riven trading issue than rivens balance IMO. Should be disclaimer on riven trades that they're subject to change and people should be more educated on the matter. Stuff gets nerfed and buffed in games all the time. You can't expect static value. Just nature of the beast.

Disposition balance is not perfect of course, but generally it is okay IMO. Low disp rivens personally don't bother me unless it's already a weapon I dislike or don't care about.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I only have two riven that has 1 disposition. It's not that I sold them all, it's just the game doesn't give me them. A riven is a riven, more stats on a card. Even if it's only a 36.78% multishot.

[Xzorn]

0.55 Disposition shouldn't exist and neither should 1.55.

Ideally Rivens Disposition should range from 0.7 - 1.2 because that's an easily achievable margin of error or situational performance. Anything outside that range becomes exponentially more difficult to make viable through probability on rolls and their values to the weapon in question. It's really kinda simple but players will spend thousands of plat or forever trying to get that 1 in millions roll so DE doesn't change it and actually on occasion capitalizes with 1.4 - 1.5 Disp weapons being Primed.

All this with game wide weapon reworks which should have reduced the range of Disposition significantly. That is, if they intended to do so.

Then of course you have Arch-guns being reworked and given Rivens in conflict to their stated purpose.

[zoffmode]

Here's my disp 1 rivens. I don't think they're bad... at worst, they provide some utility that other mods can't. Please do point out to me if I'm deluding myself and these are all just trash.

Spoiler

 

 

That being said, was I excited when my Marelok riven got a tiny buff? Hell yeah! That was a long time coming. That's one case where disposition should've been adjusted almost a year ago...

Spoiler

 

[Xaxma]

Because the 40% extra dmg on a Tiberon is still going to be infinitely more valuable than 200% dmg on a cruddy Karak or Gorgon just because weapon balance in this game is shot.