(MyUnhealthyHobby’s) Ember Rework idea.

[Blexander]

1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

THE DE DEV-LORDS HAVE HEARD US

 

Appreciate those ember buffs~

I'm still on the fence. She still has some counter-synergy. The low base range of her passive is upsetting the most.

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, Blexander said:

I'm still on the fence. She still has some counter-synergy. The low base range of her passive is upsetting the most.

I must've missed the range of her passive. You're talking about getting power strength from nearby ignited enemies, right? 

 

What's the range?

[Blexander]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

I must've missed the range of her passive. You're talking about getting power strength from nearby ignited enemies, right? 

 

What's the range?

10m. Probably unmodable. It's still subject to change, but it just pisses me off how they didn't think the numbers through properly. Nobody even noticed that enemies under heat proc panic don't get knocked away by Fire Blast, not even the devs mentioned it.

[Maka.Bones]

14 minutes ago, Blexander said:

10m. Probably unmodable. It's still subject to change, but it just pisses me off how they didn't think the numbers through properly. Nobody even noticed that enemies under heat proc panic don't get knocked away by Fire Blast, not even the devs mentioned it.

I hope they increase it to 25-30m at least... Or ideally the affinity range. 

 

And isn't it good that heat-procced enemies can't be knocked away? Then they don't move away from you, and you keep the power bonus. 

[Blexander]

13 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I hope they increase it to 25-30m at least... Or ideally the affinity range. 

 

And isn't it good that heat-procced enemies can't be knocked away? Then they don't move away from you, and you keep the power bonus. 

That's the only good part though. If they get knocked away before they're set on fire, well, you're S#&$ out of luck. She doesn't have any wide AoE status proccing anymore. We don't know how her 4 work exactly, so it might work out fine.

Also, if they increase the range, they have to lower the buff or severly cap it. Otherwise, you have a free Equinox buff.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Blexander

[(XBOX)BladeTheWicked]

I think the morons at DE are destroying embers 4th by changing it they turning my main into trash and we the players should choose to have it are not if some want the new 4th let them have it and let the other have the old 4th

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by (XB1)BladeTheWicked

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

36 minutes ago, (XB1)BladeTheWicked said:

I think the morons at DE are destroying embers 4th by changing it they turning my main into trash and we the players should choose to have it are not if some want the new 4th let them have it and let the other have the old 4th

 

I saw. I’m not sure if it’s a final kit for Ember, but  so far a lot of people are displeased with her new 4th ability.  

[(PSN)chibitonka]

saw the rework on dev stream. it just left a bad taste in the mouth. 

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

1 hour ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

saw the rework on dev stream. it just left a bad taste in the mouth. 

Uh oh, it’s not looking too good right now.

[Blexander]

14 hours ago, (XB1)BladeTheWicked said:

I think the morons at DE are destroying embers 4th by changing it they turning my main into trash and we the players should choose to have it are not if some want the new 4th let them have it and let the other have the old 4th

 

My dude, WoF is complete garbage. Inferno is a better ability by far, but it still has some hiccups with enemy interaction, but not as much as WoF. Despite it being astoundingly unimpressive, it'd rather have it than current WoF.

[Maka.Bones]

22 hours ago, (XB1)BladeTheWicked said:

I think the morons at DE are destroying embers 4th by changing it they turning my main into trash and we the players should choose to have it are not if some want the new 4th let them have it and let the other have the old 4th

 

She was already trash, and her 4th was already bad. Watch the name-calling. 

[Maka.Bones]

Why are so many people being negative over the rework? Lol

 

What exactly would you have preferred? I thought it seemed great, except for her 3rd pushing enemies across a room 

[Arcira]

1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

Why are so many people being negative over the rework? Lol

 

What exactly would you have preferred? I thought it seemed great, except for her 3rd pushing enemies across a room 

I´d prefer something like this:

1.) improvements to heat status (probably solved)

2.) defense/sustain as passive or Fireblast replacement

3.) Fireball improvements (maybe solved)

4.) don´t touch Accelerant (unless you can make it more consistent in terms of staus immunities and varying stun duration)

5.) adjustements to WoF instead of a replacement (scaling range and damage)

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Arcira

[Teridax68]

19 hours ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Uh oh, it’s not looking too good right now.

I agree, the rework looks like a whole lot of spam without any particularly interesting interaction between her abilities, aside from the new resource she has forced upon her that I think already didn't work out for Gauss. Her 1 still looks redundant relative to her 4, her 2 is a mess of different mechanics with some very questionable ideas behind it (total Energy depletion? How was that even seriously considered?), and removing Accelerant just to turn Fire Blast into her new utility/CC ability feels like a loss in flavor. As this thread shows, there are ways to make Ember's whole kit useful without forcing multiple management minigames onto her.

[(PSN)chibitonka]

On 2019-10-05 at 6:30 PM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Uh oh, it’s not looking too good right now.

that's an understatement xD

[Maka.Bones]

23 hours ago, Arcira said:

2.) defense/sustain as passive or Fireblast replacement

That's solved with her new 2nd

23 hours ago, Arcira said:

4.) don´t touch Accelerant (unless you can make it more consistent in terms of staus immunities and varying stun duration)

Accelerant's damage bonus is inferior to armor stripping. We won't need the damage bonus, if we can simply remove their armor.  Ember never had an issue dealing with fleshy targets ... She only had issues killing armored enemies. 

Not to mention that accelerant also restricted movement, and had a very short stun duration. Just because it was her only decent ability, doesn't mean it would've actually been good, or necessary within a functional kit. 

 

23 hours ago, Arcira said:

5.) adjustements to WoF instead of a replacement (scaling range and damage)

 

Why do you want to keep WoF? 

What do you like about it? 

Doesn't it just remove any effort/fun from the game? Like spamming saryn's miasma, or spamming banshee's 4th, or even mesa's 4th. 

What exactly is fun about that, outside of lazy mode defense/exterminate missions? and how would you keep it from negatively affecting the gameplay experience of your teammates... Without nerfing it so much that it's no longer fun for you? 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

16 hours ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

On 2019-10-05 at 6:30 PM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Uh oh, it’s not looking too good right now.

that's an understatement xD

Why is that? How is she getting worse now? 

*Her passive is better, and actually functional now (though with the new heat changes, she might not even need her passive)

1) fireball will actually have a use/purpose now

2)Scaling damage reduction at no energy cost, and capacity to nuke (the only downfall is the loss of all energy.... That should be changed). The heat build-up, and heat loss from the gauge could be optimized. Though it's still effective. 

3) on-tap armor stripping (though the knockback effect could be bothersome... This could be better if it was only knockdown instead) 

4) her new ult also works as a targetable CC, which leaves behind AoE damage fields.... Meaning it still works for defense and for infested.

Rebbeca was only using 200% power strength, and not even using ember's passives, and she was still destroying the level 200 enemies. 

 

I'm sorry but even with all the flaws I pointed out, the rework is still an improvement to ember's current kit.

 

Instead of saying "oh this sucks" maybe point out what would be better. What you would prefer to see. Because this isn't bad; it's just not what you wanted. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

22 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

the rework looks like a whole lot of spam without any particularly interesting interaction between her abilities, aside from the new resource she has forced upon her that I think already didn't work out for Gauss.

The gauge works just fine on Gauss.

They didn't integrate it the same way on ember though. 

 

Oh and fireblast was always a utility CC...  It just wasn't very good at it. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)chibitonka]

1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

Why is that? How is she getting worse now? 

*Her passive is better, and actually functional now (though with the new heat changes, she might not even need her passive)

1) fireball will actually have a use/purpose now

2)Scaling damage reduction at no energy cost, and capacity to nuke (the only downfall is the loss of all energy.... That should be changed). The heat build-up, and heat loss from the gauge could be optimized. Though it's still effective. 

3) on-tap armor stripping (though the knockback effect could be bothersome... This could be better if it was only knockdown instead) 

4) her new ult also works as a targetable CC, which leaves behind AoE damage fields.... Meaning it still works for defense and for infested.

Rebbeca was only using 200% power strength, and not even using ember's passives, and she was still destroying the level 200 enemies. 

 

I'm sorry but even with all the flaws I pointed out, the rework is still an improvement to ember's current kit.

 

Instead of saying "oh this sucks" maybe point out what would be better. What you would prefer to see. Because this isn't bad; it's just not what you wanted. 

doesn't feel like i'm playing with fire still. 

as far as that is concerned it's a flop.

Edited October 7, 2019 by (PS4)chibitonka

[Teridax68]

31 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

The gauge works just fine on Gauss.

Quite a lot of player feedback begs to differ. Putting aside the basic problems with a resource system that pushes the player to bang into walls for no other reason, Gauss's Battery is frequently cited as limiting and restrictive to his gameplay, with the meter on Redline being particularly tedious to charge up with a regular Duration build.

31 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

They didn't integrate it the same way on ember though. 

It is not the literal same resource, but it operates along many of the same mechanisms that were problematic on Gauss, namely what appears to be an emphasis on casting, rather than interacting with enemies. If Ember can manage her resource even when no enemies are around, we are likely to see Ember cast abilities into the ether just for the sake of her new 2.

31 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Oh and fireblast was always a utility CC...  It just wasn't very good at it. 

Fire Blast has a mediocre push back, and the rest is damage. It is not what is typically recognized as one of Ember's primary utility/CC effects, as opposed to Accelerant or Firequake.

[Arcira]

3 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

That's solved with her new 2nd

Maybe. It depends on whether it works because the drawback and permanent attention it requires shouldn´t be underrestimated

3 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Accelerant's damage bonus is inferior to armor stripping. We won't need the damage bonus, if we can simply remove their armor.  Ember never had an issue dealing with fleshy targets ... She only had issues killing armored enemies. 

Not to mention that accelerant also restricted movement, and had a very short stun duration. Just because it was her only decent ability, doesn't mean it would've actually been good, or necessary within a functional kit.

It´s not perfect but there are alot of reasons why I´d like to keep it. Here are some examples:

- feels smooth

- good panic button

- debuff is a rare almost unique ability type

- superior to Fire Blast in almost every way

In short: Rather than removing those things from the game I´d like to see them amplified in there purpose and difference to other things like status effects

3 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Why do you want to keep WoF? 

What do you like about it? 

Doesn't it just remove any effort/fun from the game? Like spamming saryn's miasma, or spamming banshee's 4th, or even mesa's 4th. 

What exactly is fun about that, outside of lazy mode defense/exterminate missions? and how would you keep it from negatively affecting the gameplay experience of your teammates... Without nerfing it so much that it's no longer fun for you? 

Don´t get me wrong I really like the new ultimate shown in the dev stream but if I have to choose I prefer the current version.

It´s sad that so many people only see it as lazy or boring. Similar to Accelerant it´s quite a unique mechanic (damage aura) which should be improved rather than abandoned. It could be so much more to the point of a defining playstyle which could even work as her passive. I mean Gauss 4th does passive damage as well but would you consider this boring?

I said that somewhere else already but I don´t need 4 different active skills next to weapons and operator abilities especially if you are ending up with using the most efficient one all the time anyways. Question: with anything you know about the current rework why would you ever consider wasting energy for Fireball or Fire Blast over the new WoF?

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Arcira

[Kappa64]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Quite a lot of player feedback begs to differ. Putting aside the basic problems with a resource system that pushes the player to bang into walls for no other reason, Gauss's Battery is frequently cited as limiting and restrictive to his gameplay, with the meter on Redline being particularly tedious to charge up with a regular Duration build.

The buffs to Gauss last week pretty much fixed that problem. You can charge Redline by just sprinting now.

[EinheriarJudith]

its so funny. i knew ember could have used a bit of a touch up but no where did i ask for DE to put in micromanagement. poeple were complaining about squish, solution? add DR to fireblast or WoF. people were complaining about heat damage though they were just trying to run ember as power press death without having to use anything in their arsenal like saryn, soluttion? fix the damage system or armor scaling or both.

her rework is a cop out on addressing the core problems while adding micromanagement for the sake of micromanagement. it is completely unecessary.

Edit: i enjoyed ember but after her rework she will prolly go into the closet. there are other DPS frames i can use.

Edited October 8, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[Teridax68]

7 hours ago, Kappa64 said:

The buffs to Gauss last week pretty much fixed that problem. You can charge Redline by just sprinting now.

But it is still quicker to charge by casting Mach Rush, and in neither case does that part of resource management really require enemies to work, is the problem. Effectively, the resource isn't telling the player to use their abilities intelligently, so much as just enforcing a degree of busywork.

[ShortCat]

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

On 2019-10-06 at 10:33 PM, Arcira said:

2.) defense/sustain as passive or Fireblast replacement

That's solved with her new 2nd

Ember now has a low effort DR skill, becasue she has less (almost 0) CC in her kit.

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Accelerant's damage bonus is inferior to armor stripping. We won't need the damage bonus, if we can simply remove their armor.  Ember never had an issue dealing with fleshy targets ... She only had issues killing armored enemies. 
Not to mention that accelerant also restricted movement, and had a very short stun duration. Just because it was her only decent ability, doesn't mean it would've actually been good, or necessary within a functional kit. 

There are many ways to deal with Armor, most common one is a status weapon. So when you stripped all Armor from enemies and exposed their flash you would deal massive, like really huge, damage. This statement, that Accelerant is inferior to Armor strip is amateurish, because as stated above, you already can remove armor, but now you cannot scale weapon damage. Movement restrictions can be bypassed with casts while aim-glideing, one of the few skill ceilings in the game.

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Why is that? How is she getting worse now? 

1. No more weapons scaling with Accelerant.
2. Less CC or general utility.
3. Cookie-cutter skill template: 1 passive DR skill, 1 utility skill, 2 damage skills one of which is redundant. Only one dominat playstyle possible, because her skills are full of dependencies. Maybe Augments will salvage her, but I doubt

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

1) fireball will actually have a use/purpose now

To fuel her bong? It will be as usefull as it is now. And nobody noticed that with Fireball Francy you cannot even charge it, not that anybody charges it anyways.

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

2)Scaling damage reduction at no energy cost, and capacity to nuke (the only downfall is the loss of all energy.... That should be changed). The heat build-up, and heat loss from the gauge could be optimized. Though it's still effective. 

DE needs to give it a really high multiplier to make it offensively effective, However flat multipliers never worked. Offensive scaling potential also seems rather low. But she has a low effort braindead DR to survive, which is nice, right? You could even combine it with Adaptation and turn Ember into a tank. Yea, that is what a glass cannon looks like.

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

3) on-tap armor stripping

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Oh and fireblast was always a utility CC...  It just wasn't very good at it. 

You could already do it with a weapon and the situation won't change, because you cannot use a 75e ability on every enemy group multiple times.Furthermore, it still is not a good CC, but now its the only one she has. Oh, Joice!

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

4) her new ult also works as a targetable CC, which leaves behind AoE damage fields.... Meaning it still works for defense and for infested.

With a clear LoS, cast delay and blinding/distracting/overtuned particle effects.

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Rebbeca was only using 200% power strength, and not even using ember's passives, and she was still destroying the level 200 enemies. 

In a Devbuild, with no information on stats and against Butchers. Call me impressed.