(MyUnhealthyHobby’s) Ember Rework idea.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

19 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

*sigh*

This is the only thing that makes Ember not amazing. Currently Heat procs do not stack their damage like the other 2 damaging status procs (Slash and Toxin). If it did, Ember would be amazing as a damage frame. Since Heat only refereshes a single instance of damage, it's stuck as CC past a certain intensity threshold. Ember doesn't need fixing, Heat damage does.

This is the thing that doesn't strictly need fixing (some passives in this game as are super duper niche) but could defs use some love. I've suggested in the past that the passive itself remain the same but the activation change. For every on-fire enemy within a radius, Ember gains a portion of her current passive. She would then be rewarded for setting enemies on fire and not herself.

I’m guessing this Kit wasn’t necessarily to your liking? Sorry about that.

[SenorClipClop]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

I’m guessing this Kit wasn’t necessarily to your liking? Sorry about that.

It's fine. I just see these rework threads for the same frame every day, most of them trying to address a problem that isn't a problem with her, in that solving it involves changing something within Status, not Ember.

Edited May 25, 2019 by SenorClipClop

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

6 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

It's fine. I just see these rework threads for the same frame every day, most of them trying to address a problem that isn't a problem with her, in that solving it involves changing something within Status, not Ember.

I hear you on that. But so many of these threads are being made because she needs a lot of help. I no longer want to rely on World on fire anymore as well. Especially since it only hits enemies one at a time while we could instead receive an ability like the one I stated that hits all enemies within range. I made a kit for her that will have not only a fast play style, but it will keep people from being brain dead the entire time.

 

Edit: The passive you described of what it should be is the way I explained it in my kit. Not sure if you read it properly or not?

Edited May 26, 2019 by (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby

[SupernovaSymphony]

4 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

 For every on-fire enemy within a radius, Ember gains a portion of her current passive. She would then be rewarded for setting enemies on fire and not herself.

I love this idea

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

On 2019-05-25 at 11:07 PM, SupernovaSymphony said:

I love this idea

That’s literally what I have as her Passive though.

Tried to go back and make Scorching Blight as close to Overheat as I could without making it exactly the same.

Made the adjustments from energy to health for Scorching Blight . Hopefully it’s more survival friendly.

Heat scaling would probably be the next thing to be looked at. If everything in my kit could scale with enemy levels then this would work out perfectly.

[TeaHawk]

-> Ember has the ability to regain 10 energy a second over 10 seconds and up to 45% Damage Reduction for the 10 second duration as well.
I would like at least 75% as you're probably about to play Ember on high-level arbitration and your control is not that good. Or it should depend on the power strength with a hard cap of 90%.

-> The cooldown of this ability is 22 seconds.
What for? I mean. You're supposed to be constantly recasting it along with 1,2 and 4th abilities. You die otherwise. Putting such a long cool-down to it is not a viable solution.

-> The damaging explosion AOE radius to harm non-ignited enemies is only 5-10 meters.
I would prefer something like 15-20. Just to have a better control in order to at least stun not ignited enemies. You don't need to nerf its range so drastically as long as this ability is great only with enemies on fire. Spamming it carelessly is already useless. But at some cases you'd have to quickly stun enemies around you just to stay alive.


 

Edited May 29, 2019 by TeaHawk
Frenglish

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

On 2019-05-29 at 3:18 AM, TeaHawk said:

-> Ember has the ability to regain 10 energy a second over 10 seconds and up to 45% Damage Reduction for the 10 second duration as well.
I would like at least 75% as you're probably about to play Ember on high-level arbitration and your control is not that good. Or it should depend on the power strength with a hard cap of 90%.

-> The cooldown of this ability is 22 seconds.
What for? I mean. You're supposed to be constantly recasting it along with 1,2 and 4th abilities. You die otherwise. Putting such a long cool-down to it is not a viable solution.

-> The damaging explosion AOE radius to harm non-ignited enemies is only 5-10 meters.
I would prefer something like 15-20. Just to have a better control in order to at least stun not ignited enemies. You don't need to nerf its range so drastically as long as this ability is great only with enemies on fire. Spamming it carelessly is already useless. But at some cases you'd have to quickly stun enemies around you just to stay alive.


 

Thanks a lot for your feedback. I also agree on probably increasing her damage reduction because of higher content. I will look and see what I can do.

[_Anise_]

I saw someone on some stream I forget which suggest that maybe make it so standing in her circle counts as being on fire (without taking dmg) ? then maybe tune her passive slightly to account for it being up a lot more?

Edited May 30, 2019 by _Anise_

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

2 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

I saw someone on some stream I forget which suggest that maybe make it so standing in her circle counts as being on fire (without taking dmg) ? then maybe tune her passive slightly to account for it being up a lot more?

Maybe, but to be completely honest, (IMO) Heat proc damage needs a complete Rework in itself. 

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

I do not say this with spite in mind, but meh.

Basically you make her a fire Saryn with OG Nova molecular prime.  DE already nerfed that out of existence.

All and all taking this idea as a base and making a new frame with it would be better.  Focus it around a different elemental theme like darkness or water and I think you have something.

In particular I think you over look that ember right now is a farm frame, that is great at doing chores in low level places where you don't want to spend much time.  I don't really want to lose that.

Just undo the last round of nerfs and give WOF or accelerant a loot increasing augment and be done with it.

 

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

I do not say this with spite in mind, but meh.

Basically you make her a fire Saryn with OG Nova molecular prime.  DE already nerfed that out of existence.

All and all taking this idea as a base and making a new frame with it would be better.  Focus it around a different elemental theme like darkness or water and I think you have something.

In particular I think you over look that ember right now is a farm frame, that is great at doing chores in low level places where you don't want to spend much time.  I don't really want to lose that.

Just undo the last round of nerfs and give WOF or accelerant a loot increasing augment and be done with it.

 

I don’t know how to feel about the last part of what you typed. Almost seems like you don’t want Ember players to actually get a proper working frame in higher tier content. Please don’t be that person. We can all see that her kit is broken in a bad way at the moment. A 3/4 kit rework is literally all that can be done to probably make Ember a legitly good frame. 

Also, how is this kit like Saryn’s when DE literally nerfed Ember and replaced her with Saryn? You aren’t making any sense. If anything, Saryn’s new spore abilities are copying the way World on Fire used to work. They literally only switched places.

Now the way I have her passive set up was more so to help with Heat procs terrible scaling.  And Nidus was the first frame to have stacking capabilities so I actually had him in mind more so than Saryn.

 

But other than all that, I thank you for your feedback. Maybe try to provide some ways to make her an actual better frame next time. I’m willing to work with everyone on the matter.

 

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

I don’t know how to feel about the last part of what you typed. Almost seems like you don’t want Ember players to actually get a proper working frame in higher tier content. Please don’t be that person. We can all see that her kit is broken in a bad way at the moment. A 3/4 kit rework is literally all that can be done to probably make Ember a legitly good frame. 

Also, how is this kit like Saryn’s when DE literally nerfed Ember and replaced her with Saryn? You aren’t making any sense. If anything, Saryn’s new spore abilities are copying the way World on Fire used to work. They literally only switched places.

Now the way I have her passive set up was more so to help with Heat procs terrible scaling.  And Nidus was the first frame to have stacking capabilities so I actually had him in mind more so than Saryn.

 

But other than all that, I thank you for your feedback. Maybe try to provide some ways to make her an actual better frame next time. I’m willing to work with everyone on the matter.

 

I can say the same to you.  Her kit is good for farming.  You want to get rid of that.  Don't be that person.

The way your planned 1 spreads fire is very similar to Saryn's spores.  

Undoing the previous nerf puts firequake/accelerant builds back on the map which are just fine for high level content.

Warframe is a game that asks the player to do a lot of grinding.  Thus frames that are more efficient at grinding are appropriate rewards.  I get that that is not what you want, but it's the reality of the situation.  If you want to change her entire kit to make the frame the way you like it, you may as well just make a new frame.  No other frame eases the grind like Ember does so getting rid of her existing kit seems like a bad choice.

If you took your idea and made it about water instead, the 1 could be a charge that causes it to rain in an area.  Enemies that get wet are marked.  The 2 puts a damage multiplier on them and makes them visible through walls for the party.  The 3 is the same more or less.  The 4 summons aquatic depth charges that float up out of the ground near marked targets and explode.  This way you don't have to worry about fire procs, the support ability of making enemies visible through walls is unique and valuable, and you still have your finger snap.  Maybe even add a punch through buff to allies on the 1.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

I can say the same to you.  Her kit is good for farming.  You want to get rid of that.  Don't be that person.

The way your planned 1 spreads fire is very similar to Saryn's spores.  

Undoing the previous nerf puts firequake/accelerant builds back on the map which are just fine for high level content.

Warframe is a game that asks the player to do a lot of grinding.  Thus frames that are more efficient at grinding are appropriate rewards.  I get that that is not what you want, but it's the reality of the situation.  If you want to change her entire kit to make the frame the way you like it, you may as well just make a new frame.  No other frame eases the grind like Ember does so getting rid of her existing kit seems like a bad choice.

If you took your idea and made it about water instead, the 1 could be a charge that causes it to rain in an area.  Enemies that get wet are marked.  The 2 puts a damage multiplier on them and makes them visible through walls for the party.  The 3 is the same more or less.  The 4 summons aquatic depth charges that float up out of the ground near marked targets and explode.  This way you don't have to worry about fire procs, the support ability of making enemies visible through walls is unique and valuable, and you still have your finger snap.  Maybe even add a punch through buff to allies on the 1.

Not a bad suggestion but the real question is if DE will actually fix how Heat proc Damage scales in general. That in itself is Ember’s worst enemy.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Not a bad suggestion but the real question is if DE will actually fix how Heat proc Damage scales in general. That in itself is Ember’s worst enemy.

Scott tried to look at damage 3.0 two years ago and it was too big of a problem to mess with so he stopped and currently it's not being worked on.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

Just now, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

Scott tried to look at damage 3.0 two years ago and it was too big of a problem to mess with so he stopped and currently it's not being worked on.

So they at least realize that this is an issue? Well that is a relief. Hopefully instead of making these new frames they can make that their next big project. If that is fixed then there is still hope for Ember in high tier content.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

So they at least realize that this is an issue? Well that is a relief. Hopefully instead of making these new frames they can make that their next big project. If that is fixed then there is still hope for Ember in high tier content.

They know damage scaling and armor are broken, and that various damage types are useless.  I don't think there are any plans for Ember specifically atm.

The same kind of thing exists for Neckros and Hydroid.  Neither of them are good for high level anything, but both have uses for farming.  As long as the game asks players to farm there must be frames that are good at farming.  Ember might just be one of those frames.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

They know damage scaling and armor are broken, and that various damage types are useless.  I don't think there are any plans for Ember specifically atm.

The same kind of thing exists for Neckros and Hydroid.  Neither of them are good for high level anything, but both have uses for farming.  As long as the game asks players to farm there must be frames that are good at farming.  Ember might just be one of those frames.

Guess all we can do in that aspect is wait and see what the DE devs come up with...

[Trusnam]

I think it would be too much spamming of the 1 ability.

Even with Saryn she just casts her 1 once and then just goes on her merry way killing, but you'd constantly have to keep pressing 1 with your build. 

Also, if I'm understanding things right, the only ability in your build that grants the heat proc would be the 1 so you'd be going nuts casting it even more.

 

The way I'd like to see Ember personally would be to: 

-make Fireball deal less damage, but have far more range that will proc heat on all enemies (and yourself).

-keep Accelerant the same.

-change the Fireblast to something like your idea for her 3rd ability so that she can heal some. To keep the ring of fire theme, maybe just make it steal heat procs from enemies and from herself to heal her and summon a ring of fire around her that gives her some damage resistance and burns enemies lightly that get too close.

-With her 4th I still like WoF, but I hate how you can only take advantage of half of her passive at a time with it, due no not being able to regenerate energy while WoF is active. So I'd change it so that it was "Duration" based so that it starts out normally, but looses damage and range after some amount of time until it turns off. I'd also change it so that she only turns the air directly around her into a bonfire. Which would only deal damage in a small area (but would do way way more damage in that small area) while also having a larger area around her that hits enemies with a heat wave, only stunning them for a second or two (or knocking them down with the augment) to give her cc back, while you close the distance to get on top of them to deal a lot of heat damage.

 

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

2 hours ago, Trusnam said:

I think it would be too much spamming of the 1 ability.

Even with Saryn she just casts her 1 once and then just goes on her merry way killing, but you'd constantly have to keep pressing 1 with your build. 

Also, if I'm understanding things right, the only ability in your build that grants the heat proc would be the 1 so you'd be going nuts casting it even more.

 

The way I'd like to see Ember personally would be to: 

-make Fireball deal less damage, but have far more range that will proc heat on all enemies (and yourself).

-keep Accelerant the same.

-change the Fireblast to something like your idea for her 3rd ability so that she can heal some. To keep the ring of fire theme, maybe just make it steal heat procs from enemies and from herself to heal her and summon a ring of fire around her that gives her some damage resistance and burns enemies lightly that get too close.

-With her 4th I still like WoF, but I hate how you can only take advantage of half of her passive at a time with it, due no not being able to regenerate energy while WoF is active. So I'd change it so that it was "Duration" based so that it starts out normally, but looses damage and range after some amount of time until it turns off. I'd also change it so that she only turns the air directly around her into a bonfire. Which would only deal damage in a small area (but would do way way more damage in that small area) while also having a larger area around her that hits enemies with a heat wave, only stunning them for a second or two (or knocking them down with the augment) to give her cc back, while you close the distance to get on top of them to deal a lot of heat damage.

 

Are you forgetting about heat/fire weapons? And you can still use the other abilities, you just benefit more with them being on fire. And I wouldn’t necessarily call it spamming the 1 if you stay on top of it with Accelerant the way I made it. If you only have to press it once it makes you brain dead so I prefer it actually taking some skill. Remember, this is about balance as much as it is about making Ember a high-tier frame. Thanks for that productive feedback but you should go back and re-read once more to make sure you saw everything correctly.

[Maka.Bones]

I would prefer it, if they gave ember a "meteoric charge" ability that rapidly heats and compresses air as she charges, then releases it and and (explodes) expands the heated air air upon impact. 

It could be her new 3, and could light her on fire, while also leaving hot spots on the ground. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

It would give her a gap-closer, while also giving her passive more frequent utility.

Edit: And also allow her to make better use of her 4's decreased range/increased damage

All DE would have to change, is her 3's animation and add the targetted movement

Edited June 2, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

Someone else a while back also had an awesome idea, about giving her a "heat proc counter" where the more enemies affected by heat status effect, the more damage she could do; similar to nidus.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Blexander]

What you suggested for her abilities gives her a lot of flexibility as to how you can play her, but it basically turns her into a Fire-typed Saryn (strictly speaking, her 1). I've thought it over a bit, and I came up with a slightly different kit.
Passive: Essentially, the charge coming from ignited enemies sounds very good, because of the sole fact it's easier to ignite them than yourself, but instead of giving Ember more strength, it allows you to cast charged damaging abilities by draining a portion of the charge (i.e. 1st skill, when cast, fully charger consumes 30 out of 100%) along with a small HP regen to go along with her phoenix theme (This part is maybe a little OP).

1st and 2nd Skill: The ability also stays relatively the same as you suggested, dealing DoT of Heat damage and status procing. I had the idea to use it as a combo ability with 2 by like:

1st combo: You cast 1 on an enemy, it ignites them, you cast 2 and it increases the DoT duration and a small increase in damage
2nd combo: You cast 2 first and then 1 on a single enemy and that will ignite enemies around the affected target giving the ability the same increase in DoT but a smaller increase duration

This way you get to choose if you want longer or stronger DoT.

3rd Skill: A constant AoE around Ember is a good idea, as long as it's duration based and not a toggle. Have it consume 50% of the passive for an added effect, make it do more damage the closer an enemy is, and give it SOME armor shred. Also, rename it to "Immolation".

4th Skill: I honestly don't know how to make this skill, I just have a vague idea of giving her a massive spike in her ability to deal damage at the cost of her HP (maybe) and 100% of the passive charge either as a requirement instead of, or along with, energy. Like, she's supposed to be fire and phoenix themed, so giving her a massive temporary burst of power isn't very unlike a phoenix, or a candle. It "thematically" appropriate. Idk

 

Your idea for her rework is very concise and frankly, I wouldn't mind if it, or anything similar, is chosen for what the (long awaited :" ( ) rework becomes. Fingers crossed that DE finally does something.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

5 hours ago, Blexander said:

What you suggested for her abilities gives her a lot of flexibility as to how you can play her, but it basically turns her into a Fire-typed Saryn (strictly speaking, her 1). I've thought it over a bit, and I came up with a slightly different kit.
Passive: Essentially, the charge coming from ignited enemies sounds very good, because of the sole fact it's easier to ignite them than yourself, but instead of giving Ember more strength, it allows you to cast charged damaging abilities by draining a portion of the charge (i.e. 1st skill, when cast, fully charger consumes 30 out of 100%) along with a small HP regen to go along with her phoenix theme (This part is maybe a little OP).

1st and 2nd Skill: The ability also stays relatively the same as you suggested, dealing DoT of Heat damage and status procing. I had the idea to use it as a combo ability with 2 by like:

1st combo: You cast 1 on an enemy, it ignites them, you cast 2 and it increases the DoT duration and a small increase in damage
2nd combo: You cast 2 first and then 1 on a single enemy and that will ignite enemies around the affected target giving the ability the same increase in DoT but a smaller increase duration

This way you get to choose if you want longer or stronger DoT.

3rd Skill: A constant AoE around Ember is a good idea, as long as it's duration based and not a toggle. Have it consume 50% of the passive for an added effect, make it do more damage the closer an enemy is, and give it SOME armor shred. Also, rename it to "Immolation".

4th Skill: I honestly don't know how to make this skill, I just have a vague idea of giving her a massive spike in her ability to deal damage at the cost of her HP (maybe) and 100% of the passive charge either as a requirement instead of, or along with, energy. Like, she's supposed to be fire and phoenix themed, so giving her a massive temporary burst of power isn't very unlike a phoenix, or a candle. It "thematically" appropriate. Idk

 

Your idea for her rework is very concise and frankly, I wouldn't mind if it, or anything similar, is chosen for what the (long awaited :" ( ) rework becomes. Fingers crossed that DE finally does something.

Thanks a lot for the feedback and your encouragement. I do also hope DE will take my idea and build upon it in some way or just fix Heat proc Damage in general. 

 

Not or sure if they even saw this forum yet but one can only hope they did and it actually made them say “hmmmm” and consider it.

Edited June 2, 2019 by (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby

[Blexander]

Just now, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Not or sure if they even saw this forum yet but one can only hope they did and it actually made them say “hmmmm” and consider it.

I saw a few of posts regarding Ember, so I sent them here in a effort to expand the thread with more insight or simply to get more eyes on it in hopes that DE sees it and considers our desires again, like when they nerfed her due to forum denizens *@##$ing and crying.