(MyUnhealthyHobby’s) Ember Rework idea.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

7 minutes ago, Blexander said:

I saw a few of posts regarding Ember, so I sent them here in a effort to expand the thread with more insight or simply to get more eyes on it in hopes that DE sees it and considers our desires again, like when they nerfed her due to forum denizens *@##$ing and crying.

I know. The pain is still there and the wound is still not closed. I can only hope people continue to give enough feedback so DE can realize that a change is in need in regards to Ember. Btw, thanks for sending some people over. Hopefully they are on board with this as well. Fingers crossed. 🤞 

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

Anyone have any mod abilities for this kit they would like to state? I’m curious to see what people can come up with.

[(PSN)chibitonka]

2 hours ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Anyone have any mod abilities for this kit they would like to state? I’m curious to see what people can come up with.

Maybe after I finish tweaking my Vauban rework I'll just whip up a spicy ember rework o.o.

Wukong, Valkitty, Vauban made atm.

Wonder where i put all white hot fun again... *looks for my ember*

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

1 minute ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Maybe after I finish tweaking my Vauban rework I'll just whip up a spicy ember rework o.o.

Wukong, Valkitty, Vauban made atm.

Wonder where i put all white hot fun again... *looks for my ember*

[(PSN)chibitonka]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

ppl keep saying my reworks are complex only bad thing x:

So either they are and i don't consider that complex or it's just the norm for me.

Edited June 4, 2019 by (PS4)chibitonka

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

On 2019-06-04 at 4:58 AM, (PS4)chibitonka said:

ppl keep saying my reworks are complex only bad thing x:

So either they are and i don't consider that complex or it's just the norm for me.

Can’t wait to see your Rework kit. 

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

I’m trying to make Ember Yonko level so I need you guys to keep up the feedback!

[844448]

On 2019-05-19 at 11:47 PM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Maybe I really am the only Ember user left?

I believe ember is still good, maybe better after the WoF rework but people seem to disagree

 

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

17 minutes ago, 844448 said:

I believe ember is still good, maybe better after the WoF rework but people seem to disagree

 

I see someone saying you are wrong below your post and they received 14 or so likes for it.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

On 2019-05-24 at 6:08 AM, Xepthrichros said:

I might have missed something but it seems that without using my weapon to set an initial target on fire, I won't have any fire on the battlefield to play with?

It seems that you didn’t see me answering your question a long time ago with no reply?

[(PSN)chibitonka]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

I believe ember is still good, maybe better after the WoF rework but people seem to disagree

 

*one of those ember players that hates wof cause it feels so underwhelming for such a name and avoids using it cause of how it's set* needs more fire 😄 

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

I don't even have ember and I already want to play her using your rework. Lots of synergy, no press 4 to win (needs to be set up before you can use the 4 ability from what I can gather) and an interesting passive. 

Nice!

 

Might also help if you list her current ability kit in detail for comparison to help strengthen your point. Sorta old vs new.

Edited June 6, 2019 by (XB1)WafflyLearner89

[Blexander]

3 hours ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

Might also help if you list her current ability kit in detail for comparison to help strengthen your point. Sorta old vs new.

I'll do that right now.

1. Fireball - insta or charge cast to fire a projectile that deals insignificant damage (increasing with charge), that leaves an napalm-esque area that deals (no) damage, and I have yet to see it do. Has no use.

2. Accelarant - coat enemies in oil, in a pretty good radius around yourself, which amplifies your heat damage by a big multiplier, and has a ministun. Objectively the best thing about her, and it's been like that for a long time.

3. Fire blast - cast a stationary ring of fire at the location where you are at moment of casting, which deals damage to enemies touching the ring, produces a wave that knocks enemies down and away from the epicentre, and also give bonus fire damage only on your allies' bullets that pass through the ring. Waste of 75 energy.

4. World on Fire - Make enemies in a radius of 15m combust in flame making them panic, that charges from 0% to 100% while used. This charge increases your damage and cost and reduces the range accoring to the %, meaning, double damage/cost and half the range. AFK WoF was dead with just the cost increase, but DE went a step further to ensure she's classifies as on of the worst frames currently. Even Firequake Ember is dead from the range reduction. My soul cries every time.

Couple all of this with Heat damage being weak and Heat procs not stacking like every other status, and you get the worst DPS frame ever made. If you want I can give you the numbers she had back when Maximization was a thing, as in before "before the the nerf".

Edited June 6, 2019 by Blexander

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

On 2019-05-18 at 11:19 PM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Passive: Heat procs and status effects will stack over one another an X amount of times. The more stacks you have, the more damage and strength her abilities gain. Maximum stack of 200x for 50% fire damage increase. If you only have 100x your damage will increase by 25%. Not engaging or using an ability in combat for 6 seconds will cause the procs to start diminishing by 5 over time until it reaches 0. There is also no energy regeneration over time from this passive.

Just make it heat procs I introduced a way for us to stack this ability reliably using our 2

 

 

On 2019-05-18 at 11:19 PM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Ability 1: “Fire Ball” will be replaced with an ability I would like to call “Spontaneous Combustion.” “Fire Ball” is being replaced because of it’s lack of diversity and usefulness while in combat. The way I have S.C will help to build my innate passive’s bonuses while in combat. Fire Ball never truly had a proper use in Ember’s kit. It also had minimal range and nothing to benefit from using it. By using S.C Ember will have more raine over the field, versatility and survivablity. 

“Spontaneous Combustion” will have the ability to make enemies who are on fire, have the fire on their bodies spread to nearby enemies. This is a chain effect that causes your passive heat proc to increase by 5 for each enemy ignited. Random CC panic effects still apply to all burning enemies. Maximum of 20 enemies can be burned at a time. It’s base damage “per tic” will start off at 450. The ability itself continues to attack enemies for 10 hits. After each hit, the damage of the next tic will increase by 25% until the last tic finishes. If used on a non-ignited enemy then S.C only sets 5 nearby enemies on fire. The normal radius is about 10 meters from enemy to enemy but it can be increased further to 20 meters. The ability itself can be activated by Ember on an enemy that is a maximum of 25 meters away from her. Burning effects will last for 12 seconds. Ability cooldown is 16 seconds so use it wisely. Energy drain will be 25.

I'm just going to shamelessly copy this from DCUO to add to your idea

Each damage tick is proc'd by any source of on hit damage(including fire procs) making your enemies walking bombs

damaging flaming enemies affected by her 1 will spread the fire and apply her 1 on those new enemies 

Spontaneous Combustion

Blast your target and nearby enemies. Additional attacks against your target may cause it to explode, damaging nearby enemies. Power Interactions : Burning enemies take additional damage.

On 2019-05-18 at 11:19 PM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Ability 2: “Accelerant” is already a decent ability. In fact, it’s probably Ember’s best all around ability in her post kit at the moment. However, it could still use a few tweaks to increase its usefulness. Especially since other warframes have a similar ability but can do it much better than Ember. 

“Accelerant” can now extend, restart or reapply the burning effects of “Spontaneous Combination” if the enemy is still on fire while used. Accelerant CC stun now lasts 5 seconds and has a damage multiplayer of 5.50x. Ability use is instantaneous but at the cost of energy. The radius would be 30 meters and energy drain will be 50.

Her 2 should add fire damage to weapons so we can proc our passive quickly

her 1 and 2 should should be a quick way to get our passive up while doing massive damage in the process itself

On 2019-05-18 at 11:19 PM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Ability 3: “Fire Blast” will be replaced with “Scorching Blight.” Again, “Fire Blast” is a ability that has no usefulness to it in combat. We are forced to stay in the center of the circle to get the bonus effects of the ability. That is not very viable for most people’s playstyles, nor is it a smart idea to do in front of a level 160 corrupted gunner. “Scorching Blight” will allow Ember to still stay mobile while controlling the field out of harms way. 

“Scorching Blight” will be an ability that allows Ember to strip the fire off the bodies of ignited enemies to cause slight nearby damage, recover Health and Damage Reduction. When Ember strips the fire of burning enemies, it returns to her and coats her body with flames. When you see this animation you will realize the ability is in effect. While this ability is active, the flames on her body inflict 150 points of damage to enemies that are 5 meters away for each second while Ember also has the ability to regain 7% health a second over 10 seconds and up to 75% Damage Reduction for the 10 second duration as well. Enemies will have to be re-ignited after striping them of fire. If this ability is used on an enemy who is affected by “Spontaneous Combustion” then the benefits you receive is increased by another 5%. The radius to strip enemies will be 15 meters. The cooldown of this ability is 14 seconds. Energy drain to activate the ability will be 75.

 

First things first no cool-down we should be managing enemy's on fire with our 1 and 2 combo and use 3 for survivability and another way to spread her fire for "Melee Ember"

Also how did you miss out on calling the ability Immolation which is a reference to sacrifice

On 2019-05-18 at 11:19 PM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Ability 4: ”Incinerate” this ability will be her ultimate that allows Ember to snap her finger while in or out of combat. Any enemy that is ignited from “Spontaneous Combustion” or fire weapons of any kind can be detonated, causing them to explode while taking heavy “Blast” damage. But if enemies are affected by “Spontaneous Combustion” before this ability is used, then the overall ability damage is strengthened by another 10%. Enemies that are nearby but not ignited will be damaged only 50% of its total ability damage. Ember can perform this ability while in air combat as well. No long animation time is required. When this ability is activated, a fiery ring will pulse out and detonate anything that is on fire within 35 meters. The damaging explosion AOE radius to harm non-ignited enemies is only 10-15 meters. The base ability damage will be 2000. “Incinerate” can consume heat proc stacks, gaining a percentage of your damage increase that you would normally  receive from your innate passive. Consuming all 200x stacks will greatly increase damage by up to 80% more ability damage. If enemies are below 35% health it’s damage multiplyer increases by another 1.5x. No cooldown required. Energy drain will be 100.

Great ability however change the damage to fire

Overall

This feels like a more volatile Ember but I felt that there was a lack of reliable heat procs so I made some suggestions and I would use this new ember over saryn and equinox anyday

I don't mind if she can get explosive if Saryn can have toxin gas viral and corrosive Ember can have some blast as well

I kinda used most of these ideas from DCUO because I felt like that would be best to model ember after espicially with some interactions between blast and fire

Use ember's 1 and 2 to keep stacking your passive and spread fire

use ember's 3 to stay alive and spread fire

use 4 to clear once you stacked up enough damage on enemies

Thanks for showing me this thread 

I'll see what I can do for augments

Edited June 6, 2019 by (PS4)CodyXSavageX

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

Augment 1| Combustion: Damage ticks on flaming enemies are converted into blast procs

(will provide more damage and the blast procs themselves will trigger subsequent explosions)

Augment 2| Flash Fire: apply heat damage and increased casting speed to allies

(Basically the same)

Augment 3| Burnout: Deactivate your 3 for an explosive blast removing status procs from yourself

(similar to saryn's molt)

[Version 1] Augment 4| Fallout: Flaming enemies on death will leave a burning patch of fire scaling from your 4's damage

[Version 2] Augment 4| Fallout: After the inital the cast Enemies are set ablaze with a fire proc scaling from your 4's damage

(DOT Damage)

To show the issues with Ember to warrant a rework this how I play ember effectively according to her abilities as of now

Ember’s 4 requires her to be very mobile in order to be effective killing low ehp mobs due to lower range and stunning high ehp mobs via fire prcs due to ember not being able to scale well

Ember’s 2 is mostly to deal extra damage and quick cc while give your abilities extra cast times due to her being a caster and using fire and explosions to cover her with abilites which is very important for survivability

Ember’s 3 is for buffing your weapons and a "large" knockdown for cc giving yourself breathing room in order to get in weapon damage which your 2 does better imo

Ember’s 1 is best used as single target area cc via fire procs this is not to be used for any practical damage and your 2 and 3 are much safer to use and more reliable 

Ember’s survivability is directly tied to her cc and neither is good enough for her playstyle and not needed. Ember’s DPS fall off comes too early and cannot cover as a form of survivabilty itself like saryn who doesn't need the cc ember has to protect herself using her 2 and 3 and Volt out classes ember by being able to survive longer, have a better 1,3 and 4 and damage that scales nicely

Ember simply has no effective scaling DPS besides using weapons or survivability to make her playstyle unique or worthwhile she is too risky to play with no benefits to counter the risk and is unfairly outclassed

Edited June 6, 2019 by (PS4)CodyXSavageX

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

On 2019-06-06 at 7:13 PM, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

To show the issues with Ember to warrant a rework this how I play ember effectively according to her abilities as of now

Ember’s 4 requires her to be very mobile in order to be effective killing low ehp mobs due to lower range and stunning high ehp mobs via fire prcs due to ember not being able to scale well

Ember’s 2 is mostly to deal extra damage and quick cc while give your abilities extra cast times due to her being a caster and using fire and explosions to cover hew with abilites which is very important for survivability

Ember’s 3 is for buffing your weapons and a "large" knockdown for cc giving yourself breathing room in order to get in weapon damage which your 2 does better imo

Ember’s 1 is best used as single target area cc via fire procs this is not to be used for any practical damage and your 2 and 3 are much safer to use and more reliable 

Ember’s survivability is directly tied to her cc and neither is good enough for her playstyle and not needed. Ember’s DPS fall off comes too early and cannot cover as a form of survivabilty itself like saryn who doesn't need the cc ember has to protect herself using her 2 and 3 and Volt out classes ember by being able to survive longer, have a better 1,3 and 4 and damage that scales nicely

Ember simply has no effective scaling DPS besides using weapons or survivability to make her playstyle unique or worthwhile she is too risky to play with no benefits to counter the risk and is unfairly outclassed

I read all of your feedback and I’m so glad that you found it pretty decent. You also make some good suggestions as well. And those Augments are excellent. This was one of the best set of feedbacks I’ve had!

On 2019-06-06 at 12:40 PM, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

I don't even have ember and I already want to play her using your rework. Lots of synergy, no press 4 to win (needs to be set up before you can use the 4 ability from what I can gather) and an interesting passive. 

Nice!

 

Might also help if you list her current ability kit in detail for comparison to help strengthen your point. Sorta old vs new.

Thank you very much! I will see what I can do to it later on. 

On 2019-06-06 at 4:03 PM, Blexander said:

I'll do that right now.

1. Fireball - insta or charge cast to fire a projectile that deals insignificant damage (increasing with charge), that leaves an napalm-esque area that deals (no) damage, and I have yet to see it do. Has no use.

2. Accelarant - coat enemies in oil, in a pretty good radius around yourself, which amplifies your heat damage by a big multiplier, and has a ministun. Objectively the best thing about her, and it's been like that for a long time.

3. Fire blast - cast a stationary ring of fire at the location where you are at moment of casting, which deals damage to enemies touching the ring, produces a wave that knocks enemies down and away from the epicentre, and also give bonus fire damage only on your allies' bullets that pass through the ring. Waste of 75 energy.

4. World on Fire - Make enemies in a radius of 15m combust in flame making them panic, that charges from 0% to 100% while used. This charge increases your damage and cost and reduces the range accoring to the %, meaning, double damage/cost and half the range. AFK WoF was dead with just the cost increase, but DE went a step further to ensure she's classifies as on of the worst frames currently. Even Firequake Ember is dead from the range reduction. My soul cries every time.

Couple all of this with Heat damage being weak and Heat procs not stacking like every other status, and you get the worst DPS frame ever made. If you want I can give you the numbers she had back when Maximization was a thing, as in before "before the the nerf".

Thank you for that friend. 

On our way to senpai noticing us everyone. 

[(PSN)chibitonka]

ack one more ability to finish to replace wof, then tweaks, ability interactions finalized. And trim it down so it's not as lengthy as my current wukong rework 😄

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

Just now, (PS4)chibitonka said:

ack one more ability to finish to replace wof, then tweaks, ability interactions finalized. And trim it down so it's not as lengthy as my current wukong rework 😄

I seriously can’t wait to see it!

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

On 2019-05-18 at 11:19 PM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Spontaneous Combustion” will have the ability to make enemies who are on fire, have the fire on their bodies spread to nearby enemies. This is a chain effect that causes your passive heat proc to increase by 5 for each enemy ignited. Random CC panic effects still apply to all burning enemies. Maximum of 20 enemies can be burned at a time. It’s base damage “per tic” will start off at 450. The ability itself continues to attack enemies for 10 hits. After each hit, the damage of the next tic will increase by 25% until the last tic finishes. If used on a non-ignited enemy then S.C only sets 5 nearby enemies on fire. The normal radius is about 10 meters from enemy to enemy but it can be increased further to 20 meters. The ability itself can be activated by Ember on an enemy that is a maximum of 25 meters away from her. Burning effects will last for 12 seconds. Ability cooldown is 16 seconds so use it wisely. Energy drain will be 25.

I just realized that warframe doesn't really have cool downs on their abilities do that may be a problem. Also, regarding your suggested 1st ability "spontaneous combustion", it talks about making it that enemies on fire spread the fire to others. How do you set enemies on fire with just ability kit? 

Perhaps spontaneous combustion should set the targeted enemy on fire aswell?

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

8 hours ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

ack one more ability to finish to replace wof, then tweaks, ability interactions finalized. And trim it down so it's not as lengthy as my current wukong rework 😄

You have a wukong rework?

Have you ever thought of adding an ability that allows wukong to transform into an animal (with 3 or 4 to choose from) from his 72 transformations that he has in orginal lore? Each animal could have a different play style or certain scenarios (one that is quick and stealthy, one that hits hard, one that can knock people down and take hits and one that is a balance of all of them)

Additionally I was thinking if a passive that allowed him to run in the air which would increase his evasiveness and speed while reducing enemy accuracy. The passive would be his new cloud Walker. 

[(PSN)chibitonka]

1 hour ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

You have a wukong rework?

Have you ever thought of adding an ability that allows wukong to transform into an animal (with 3 or 4 to choose from) from his 72 transformations that he has in orginal lore? Each animal could have a different play style or certain scenarios (one that is quick and stealthy, one that hits hard, one that can knock people down and take hits and one that is a balance of all of them)

Additionally I was thinking if a passive that allowed him to run in the air which would increase his evasiveness and speed while reducing enemy accuracy. The passive would be his new cloud Walker. 

Yup.

Rereading jttw to make one that incorporates more gunplay into the mix of just melee/magecraft that this one is. Using this one as the base for it too.

Edited June 7, 2019 by (PS4)chibitonka

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

3 hours ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

I just realized that warframe doesn't really have cool downs on their abilities do that may be a problem. Also, regarding your suggested 1st ability "spontaneous combustion", it talks about making it that enemies on fire spread the fire to others. How do you set enemies on fire with just ability kit? 

Perhaps spontaneous combustion should set the targeted enemy on fire aswell?

It does. Did you read where I stated if you use it on an enemy that isn’t ignited you just set less of them on fire? Remember even though it’s terrible, fireball and fire blast temporarily sets enemies on fire.

Also, I gave it a cooldown because it doesn’t necessarily need to be performed again until the duration is over anyway. But there is also Accelerant to extend it so by the time it’s off cooldown you can just recast it anyway. I also don’t want to make it spammable or brain dead either. As long as you use all the abilities properly there should be zero issues. This is about balance while also making her a good frame.

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

3 hours ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

It does. Did you read where I stated if you use it on an enemy that isn’t ignited you just set less of them on fire? Remember even though it’s terrible, fireball and fire blast temporarily sets enemies on fire.

Also, I gave it a cooldown because it doesn’t necessarily need to be performed again until the duration is over anyway. But there is also Accelerant to extend it so by the time it’s off cooldown you can just recast it anyway. I also don’t want to make it spammable or brain dead either. As long as you use all the abilities properly there should be zero issues. This is about balance while also making her a good frame.

 

 

 

Oh okay. The wording was a little unclear for me. Might want to add that it does ignite the target enemy just for clarity.

Also I know that the cool down is there for a balance reason, but I don't think any warframe ability has a cool down. Hence why I question making ember the only frame with an ability that has a cool down.

You could make it that you need to wait for the duration of the ability to wear off before being able to cast it again. 

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

Reworked Gameplay Analysis

The the point of burning enemies with her 1 should focus on DOT fire damage and stack ember’s passive which can increase the damage

While enemies are burning pressing 2 and dealing damage to enemies affected by her 1 will act as a way to perform high damage in an immediate area 

her 3 will be used to keep ember alive via her flame aura as she tries to spread flames giving her the needed survivability to take some hits to allow her to be mobile but by no means make her a tank 

her 4 will be her aoe clear but at the cost of resetting her passive this ability is to be used when you collected enough burning enemies and your passive is high enough similar to Equinox 4

Thoughts

The gameplay to my understanding feels too close to saryn and equinox however what makes ember different is her ability for single target DPS in addition to multi target DPS 

Ember will be much more mobile and will have to find enemies to focus down since she cannot always rely on her 4 and have to find a bunch of enemies to stack up allowing her abilities to shine when things start to get difficult and have less immediate fall off

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by (PS4)CodyXSavageX

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

On 2019-06-07 at 6:37 PM, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

Reworked Gameplay Analysis

The the point of burning enemies with her 1 should focus on DOT fire damage and stack ember’s passive which can increase the damage

While enemies are burning pressing 2 and dealing damage to enemies affected by her 1 will act as a way to perform high damage in an immediate area 

her 3 will be used to keep ember alive via her flame aura as she tries to spread flames giving her the needed survivability to take some hits to allow her to be mobile but by no means make her a tank 

her 4 will be her aoe clear but at the cost of resetting her passive this ability is to be used when you collected enough burning enemies and your passive is high enough similar to Equinox 4

Thoughts

The gameplay to my understanding feels too close to saryn and equinox however what makes ember different is her ability for single target DPS in addition to multi target DPS 

Ember will be much more mobile and will have to find enemies to focus down since she cannot always rely on her 4 and have to find a bunch of enemies to stack up allowing her abilities to shine when things start to get difficult and have less immediate fall off

 

 

 

 

This pretty much sums it up perfectly. 

On 2019-06-07 at 6:16 PM, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

Oh okay. The wording was a little unclear for me. Might want to add that it does ignite the target enemy just for clarity.

Also I know that the cool down is there for a balance reason, but I don't think any warframe ability has a cool down. Hence why I question making ember the only frame with an ability that has a cool down.

You could make it that you need to wait for the duration of the ability to wear off before being able to cast it again. 

My bad. I probably could have worded it bit better to help you understand what I initially meant. I was going to take some time this weekend to fix it up probably by making bulletins for each reason this kit would be overall a better option. Worry not friend, I will straighten it out.