Jump to content
(PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby

(MyUnhealthyHobby’s) Ember Rework idea.

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, cookieknife said:

her passive = her on fire, like i said, if her abilities lit her on fire, her passive would be great.

But why would you want to damage yourself for a meager benefit, or any other reason, when you can't sustain yourself properly?

The way I see it, you don't want an objectively bad passive to be changed, you just want her passive to have more presence in missions, like Nidus and literally no other frame. It's a passive for a reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Blexander said:

But why would you want to damage yourself for a meager benefit, or any other reason, when you can't sustain yourself properly?

The way I see it, you don't want an objectively bad passive to be changed, you just want her passive to have more presence in missions, like Nidus and literally no other frame. It's a passive for a reason.

maybe she shouldn't take fire dmg? or maybe the procs from her abilities do no dmg at all for her? idk just a thought

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, cookieknife said:

maybe she shouldn't take fire dmg? or maybe the procs from her abilities do no dmg at all for her? idk just a thought

It's easier to have enemies be set on fire and having that benefit her in a way. It's only a temporary fix for her current kit, because that's all she can do with it, but she doesn't need a temporary fix, but a full rework.

Well, technically, it's not just a rework that she  needs. Armor values for high level enemies need to be balanced, heat DoT needs to function like every other DoT, as in, it needs to stack and overwrite weaker DoTs with stronger ones. Hell, heat damage alone is only good against infested and certain unarmored enemies, which barely exist in high level maps.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

true. i also wish she could armor strip enemies, or something. i mean fire not melting metal? ok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, cookieknife said:

true. i also wish she could armor strip enemies, or something. i mean fire not melting metal? ok

I wonder if my first ability for Ember could be used to burn away armor? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, cookieknife said:

true. i also wish she could armor strip enemies, or something. i mean fire not melting metal? ok

DE can't design thematic abilities properly, which explains why THE LITERAL SUN procs corrosive instead of radiation or magentic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Blexander said:

DE can't design thematic abilities properly, which explains why THE LITERAL SUN procs corrosive instead of radiation or magentic.

According to the Wiki, her Sol Gate does and procs Heat and Radiation.

When you are buffed with the Haste Mote, then Corrosive Procs get added to the mix.
There is also balancing to think of as well, considering that Corpus nullies have 1million SPF sunblock on their bubbles.  

Back to Ember, Fire needs to be reworked a bit.  Considering how damn fast you melt when a million grineer inmates molotov you to death compared to the piddly damage you do in return, it is only a step above doing magnetic damage.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Blexander said:

DE can't design thematic abilities properly, which explains why THE LITERAL SUN procs corrosive instead of radiation or magentic.

It already does proc heat and radiation.

It procs corrosive because of the haste mote (and it makes sense thematically, since the sun would literally melt off their armor)

It is missing magnetic tho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-06-10 at 11:37 AM, Maka.Bones said:

This makes me wonder if they used some of my old Ember ideas, to create Wisp 

 

On 2019-06-10 at 11:15 AM, Maka.Bones said:

OH AND THIS FROM ME!!!!

What do you think?!

 

Looks like they're making a similar "Vanguard inspired"  kit, with Gauss.  They're even giving him that threshold/throttle gauge (similar to the "overheat" we've been suggesting for ember)

Not complaining though, but it makes me curious about what direction they'll take with ember when they do rework her

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

It already does proc heat and radiation.

It procs corrosive because of the haste mote (and it makes sense thematically, since the sun would literally melt off their armor)

It is missing magnetic tho

There's a difference between melting armor and corroding it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Blexander said:

There's a difference between melting armor and corroding it.

If heat damage in general is revamped they could just add armor melting innately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Blexander said:

There's a difference between melting armor and corroding it.

What difference is that? because on a molecular level, it's almost the same thing. Corrosion is just stealing electrons/atoms, and converting the molecules into something else via chemical/ionic changes, or oxidization. 

Melting something, is turning matter into it's liquid state. At which point, corrosion will innately happen, because you're changing the chemical composition by accelerating reactions and introducing new matter when you melt the armor. 

For our purposes (melting it with the sun) the chemical changes would involve "corrosive effects/changes...  so it does actually make sense for it to have corrosive procs.  ;P

 

It would be lovely if heat (or ember) could melt one of the armor types though.

Edited by Maka.Bones
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Maka.Bones said:

What difference is that? because on a molecular level, it's almost the same thing. Corrosion is just stealing electrons/atoms, and converting the molecules into something else, or oxidization. 

Melting something, is turning matter into it's liquid state. At which point, corrosion will innately happen, because you're changing the chemical composition by accelerationg reactions and introducing new matter when you melt the armor. 

For our purposes (melting it with the sun) they're basically the same. 

Not even. Melting metal just affects the state of matter of the metal, you're not changing the chemical composition of it. Corrosion is a chemical breakdown of the molecular structure of the metal. You're turning the metal into something else, like how oxidation works.

Heat is energy, you're not introducing any new matter when heating something up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Not even. Melting metal just affects the state of matter of the metal, you're not changing the chemical composition of it. Corrosion is a chemical breakdown of the molecular structure of the metal. You're turning the metal into something else, like how oxidation works.

Heat is energy, you're not introducing any new matter when heating something up.

You're forgetting wisp uses the sun's molten plasma... She's definitely changing the molecular composition of it at that point. The sun's plasma has a lot of ionized molecules, which would cause corrosion. 

But if we were speaking about ember, you'd be correct

Edited by Maka.Bones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

You're forgetting she's using the sun's molten plasma... She's definitely changing the molecular composition of it at that point. The sun's plasma has a lot of ionized molecules, which would cause corrosion. 

Corrosion can't happen properly because of the extreme heat having a larger impact. Anything hit would melt too fast for any corrosion to happen. If a metal can take the heat, it will corrode.

Corrosion breaks down the molecular bonds, ionization makes the molecule more reactive, which CAN cause corrosion when the affected substance interacts with another reactive substance, but it doesn't enately cause corrosion alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Blexander said:

Corrosion can't happen properly because of the extreme heat having a larger impact. Anything hit would melt too fast for any corrosion to happen. If a metal can take the heat, it will corrode.

Corrosion breaks down the molecular bonds, ionization makes the molecule more reactive, which CAN cause corrosion when the affected substance interacts with another reactive substance, but it doesn't enately cause corrosion alone.

uh... molecules still combine even at extreme temperatures. That's why there's "welding" the heat only accelerates the reaction. 

Ionized molecules don't cause corrosion alone, but with a catalyst that provides heat (like high temperature plasma) it easily can. There is an effect where depending on the molecules, there can exist too much heat for the ideal type of chemical bond/reaction you're looking for. Too much heat CAN get in the way of a proper chemical bond, though I don't think that applies as much when it comes to hydrogen bonding & un-bonding over, and over, to have a corrosive type of effect on a material (and solar plasma is mostly hydrogen). Burning something is also often an "oxidation" reaction, which is a form of corrosion. Different types of armor could  use particularly strong bonded alloys, which would give them a high melting point, and resistance to oxidation. Alternatively they could be plated with materials resistant to bonding with carbon/oxygen molecules, so they could be resistant to high temperatures and oxidation (thus being resistant to heat/ember). But the sun's Ionized Hydrogen plasma doesn't really give AF about those strong bonds.

Anyway my point is that Wisp's "Shoop-da-woop" does make sense to have corrosive procs with her reservoirs. 

Edited by Maka.Bones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-07-27 at 10:15 AM, Maka.Bones said:

uh... molecules still combine even at extreme temperatures. That's why there's "welding" the heat only accelerates the reaction. 

Ionized molecules don't cause corrosion alone, but with a catalyst that provides heat (like high temperature plasma) it easily can. There is an effect where depending on the molecules, there can exist too much heat for the ideal type of chemical bond/reaction you're looking for. Too much heat CAN get in the way of a proper chemical bond, though I don't think that applies as much when it comes to hydrogen bonding & un-bonding over, and over, to have a corrosive type of effect on a material (and solar plasma is mostly hydrogen). Burning something is also often an "oxidation" reaction, which is a form of corrosion. Different types of armor could  use particularly strong bonded alloys, which would give them a high melting point, and resistance to oxidation. Alternatively they could be plated with materials resistant to bonding with carbon/oxygen molecules, so they could be resistant to high temperatures and oxidation (thus being resistant to heat/ember). But the sun's Ionized Hydrogen plasma doesn't really give AF about those strong bonds.

Anyway my point is that Wisp's "Shoop-da-woop" does make sense to have corrosive procs with her reservoirs. 

Wouldn’t it just be better if heat damage could ignore enemy armor and directly attack enemy health? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

Wouldn’t it just be better if heat damage could ignore enemy armor and directly attack enemy health? 

Nah, that would make them too easy to kill--that's the reason they removed overheat from ember's old kit. I actually like the different armor/DR mechanics, because without them DE would just make beefier enemies anyway. We just need a better way to circumvent existing DR. 

Edited by Maka.Bones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-05-19 at 5:19 AM, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said:

 

nawg2g7jvhc11.png

 

As an Ember main, I'd stop using her if WoF gets cut. She needs small changes. Not reworks.

 

Passive: Killing by fire increased power strength for 10 sec, only thing that really needs a change.

1: Something mild to suit a level 1 power.

2: As is.

3: As is, maybe throw in damage reduction for anyone stainding inside, max 50% with mods. Don't need any 95% silliness. Or maybe a ring that lingers around ember.

4: As is / small powerbump.

 

Passive and 3 powers changed out. I'd say that's a new frame and not a rework.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Snesopp said:

As an Ember main, I'd stop using her if WoF gets cut. She needs small changes. Not reworks.

 

Passive: Killing by fire increased power strength for 10 sec, only thing that really needs a change.

1: Something mild to suit a level 1 power.

2: As is.

3: As is, maybe throw in damage reduction for anyone stainding inside, max 50% with mods. Don't need any 95% silliness. Or maybe a ring that lingers around ember.

4: As is / small powerbump.

 

Passive and 3 powers changed out. I'd say that's a new frame and not a rework.

At least change fireplast. I absolutely hate that power and can't understand how anyone uses it or sees it as useful at all (Beyond that it looks and sounds cool)

Fireball doesn't need to be "mild" and it isn't a "level 1" power btw; It's just one of the kit abilities. It would be better if it also had some sort of synergy with other abilities as well (not just with accelerant)

WoF doesn't at all need a "power bump" it just needs to cost less energy. They could also to keep the range the same as the default, but decrease the damage as enemies are closer to the edges--Instead of reducing the area and increasing damage. That way we could actually use it as an active toggle CC while we melee, or move around the map. 

Edited by Maka.Bones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Snesopp said:

As an Ember main, I'd stop using her if WoF gets cut. She needs small changes. Not reworks.

Objectively wrong. But let's deconstruct (again) why Ember's kit is god awful:

1. Fireball: Charge mechanics are bad, they only slow down the gameplay, the damage is minuscule, not just for being a Heat DoT and damage type, but in general. The lingering napalm AoE does close to nothing on high level.

2. Accelarant: Buffs a very bad damage type, but it's has a decent multiplier and a cast speed boost, plus a ministun, so it evens out. Overall, the best skill she has currently.

3. Fire Blast: A stationary ring of fire that adds a measly 50% (non scaling) bonus Heat damage, and that's it's only positive attribute. Its shockwave cancels the stun from Accelarant and panic from Heat status effects. Its ring has a wonky hitbox, and is straight up ignored by low to the ground enemies. It's one of the few duration based stationary abilities, and it's the worst out of all of them.

4. World on Fire: A gimped version of an already lackluster DPS ability. It was and still is boring to use. DE themselves said they don't want "set it and forget it" skills in their game, but Equinox is a thing, so take that how you will. But let's delve deeper into WoF. Did you know that WoF has a scaling Status chance for Heat panic and DoT? Did you know that Heat DoTs don't get replaced by stronger Heat DoTs, therefore, you have a 3/4 to proc the first, and weakest, DoT, and regardless of WoF powering up, the Heat tick still deals minuscule damage? Current version of WoF is contradictory in design.

5. Passive: As a squishy DPS with no sustain, healing, or DR of any kind, damaging yourself to gain energy is blatantly idiotic. Furhermore, having to base your loadout over procing a passive as awful as this is beyond idiotic, because you can use your operator to give you energy more frequently and for free (plus some added bonuses).

6. Heat damage: Many of Ember's issue (that aren't related to her kit being outdated and gimped to the point of irrelevance) stem from Heat DoTs NOT working like other DoTs, as in, getting replaced by a stronger DoT, stacking, and being effective against only non-armored enemies and infested.

  • Like 3
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Snesopp said:

As an Ember main, I'd stop using her if WoF gets cut. She needs small changes. Not reworks.

 

Passive: Killing by fire increased power strength for 10 sec, only thing that really needs a change.

1: Something mild to suit a level 1 power.

2: As is.

3: As is, maybe throw in damage reduction for anyone stainding inside, max 50% with mods. Don't need any 95% silliness. Or maybe a ring that lingers around ember.

4: As is / small powerbump.

 

Passive and 3 powers changed out. I'd say that's a new frame and not a rework.

And just from reading what you put I can tell Ember would still be a garbage can. Ember’s Kit is trash do you not understand that? What is “glass cannon” about Ember or the one you made for that matter? Please explain...I’ll gladly wait for your reply. 

Edited by (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...