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Not really digging Baruuk so far, I'm just kinda confused.


Oreades
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Maybe he might make a decent solo frame? But his abilities just seem diametrically apposed to team play. Hell his abilities even seem diametrically apposed to themselves. If your goal is to activate Serene Storm for any length of time.

 

I think my main problem is the Exalted weapon being useless without emptying your restrain bar sufficiently. The problem there is you can only do that with Elude which requires enemies to shoot you (which is fine cause you dodge the bullets) BUT in team play everyone is killing everything ASAP. Soooo half the time there is nothing to actually shoot you to lower your bar.

Then you have Lull which is essentially CC on a frame that you want things shooting you..... 

Aaaaand then you have Desolate Hands..... which destroys enemy guns...... on a frame that you want things ..... shooting you......

 

I'm not sure if I follow the design. You want/need things to shoot you to be able to use your Exalted Weapon but in team play everyone is going to kill them before they can do that and all of his other abilities seem to be centered around preventing things from shooting you... So far most of my experience with him has been a Frame that essentially has a dead 4. 

 

I mean admittedly I really wasn't interested in what I'd seen in the previews and couldn't be bothered to grind the standing until semi recently.

Maybe he makes a good solo frame but he seems like he'd be so unfun to play in a group or maybe Arbitrations? But I'm not sure how squishy he is and probably won't build him out cause I'm not super huge on Arbitrations anyhow. So yeah kinda just confused by his synergies I guess. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Oreades said:

The problem there is you can only do that with Elude

Lull and Desolate Hands empty Restraint just fine on my end (with just Stretch for Range).

And if I turn on Serene Storm, I can keep that going for the rest of the mission, no prob.

Mind, I'm not saying he's working perfectly or anything,
his abilities do very much work against each other (and Lull just feels a bit weird / unreliable),
but the Squad protection via dagger sharing, and CC-y AoE Crit punches, those parts are ~fine IMO.

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2 hours ago, Oreades said:

The problem there is you can only do that with Elude

Nononono.

That's where most people make the mistake with Baruuk, of course he's going to be boring if you try to build him to Elude everything.

The main Restraint dumps on him are Lull and Desolate Hands, drop his 2 in a large group and you get a nice chunk of your Restraint removed, and Desolate Hands upkeep on yourself and allies will reduce incoming damage by melee locking enemies while also removing bits of your restraint over time.

It is also worth noting that you don't NEED to have Serene Storm on at all times, you have guns and a non-exalted melee you can use in the interim when building with his 2 and 3.

Elude's best usual use is when you need to pick allies up off the floor or re-position if you're getting swarmed, just standing there waiting for enemies to shoot you isn't how it is supposed to be used.

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Baruuk needs a bit more management,

his abilities seem to be counter synergistic but they need to be used at the right time. 

Allude I use only when I need to get from a to b, only cast desolate hand once in the beginning (no recast while allude active) and cast lull whenever I encounter a bunch of enemies. 

I am usually at 75% restraint erosion by the time I get to the next objective. 

Then I stop allude and keep my desolate hands high enough to keep the 90% DR at all times. 

Then serene sand for 40% more DR, 

Cast lull once in a while and I rarely have to worry about it expiring.

You can cast allude if you have energy to spare but the high DR usually means you don't have to. 

200% range and about 180% strength , 160% efficiency and low duration gives me just the right balance for at least sortie 3 content. 

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I'm assuming the idea was DE wanted to give you multiple methods of draining your meter with some amount of DR always available.  But the abilities don't play with each other at all and have anti synergy.  So the goal actually ends up being spamming lull and desolate hands to get an objectively worse exalted blade.  The only "good" way to play Baruuk is to have him be a DR weapons platform since he can stack DR like it's nobody's business. And then use your cc in panic situations.

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Baruuk's build-up means his teammates will do most missions for him.  By the time restraint is dpwn, Excalibur is already done.

People keep saying "playable-if-you-like-it Warframes are the best!"  Every Warframe is playable if someone likes it.  Baruuk just doesn't fill a niche or bring a lot to the table, and his 4's buildup means your allies can pretty much beat you to the enemies with guns.

As he is earned from Vox Solaris, people are typically getting him after already choosing favorites, and he just doesn't have much of a reason to leave the arsenal.

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I would say Baruuk is the result of people who want nerfs so DE released a warframe that's pre-nerfed.

To improve Baruuk, I'd say make his Restraint also deplete when allies within his affinity radius take damage, so it goes down much faster and you can use 4 faster. And make the restraint restoration slower so you can stay in 4 longer.

That said, Desolate Hands is a bit counter productive as it makes enemies deal less damage by taking away their guns, so Desolate Hands ought to erode even more Restraint whenever it hits an enemy to compensate for nerfing enemy damage.

Those are my minor buff suggestions.

A more drastic buff would be to let Restraint depletion affect skills 1, 2, 3 as well.

Since Restraint itself grants damage reduction as it is depleted further, it makes his 1, 2, and 3 a bit more redundant as Restraint is depleted. I'd say, make 1,2 and 3 gain some additional properties as Restraint is lowered. 

Elude - now gains a chance to redirect bullets that fly through Baruuk's body at enemies, doing damage to them. Redirection increases as restraint decreases

 Lull - gains ability to propagate sleep to enemies beyond what is in initial line of sight. More propagation range as restraint decreases.

Desolate hands - Daggers deal more damage to the enemies they hit, with a wider explosion, and more daggers are summoned, increasing as restraint decreases.

And his fourth skill, Serene Storm,wind wave range increases, and damage increases as Restraint depletes.

Edited by Xepthrichros
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Baruuk is an extremely contradicting frame by itself. No matter how I try to mod him, I could not find any middle ground where I can utilize all 4 of his abilities with one setup. Some frames when you modded a certain way there's one ability that would be negatively impacted, but baruuk's ability cancels each other. The way he is doesn't make sense to me.

  1. Elude: You need to not attack to dodge and requires modding into 200 range to achieve 360° dodge. High range negatively affect his 3 Desolate Hands into daggers immediately flying out to hit enemies instead of orbiting around and protect baruuk.
  2. Lull: would also prefer high range to be effective CC but there's a delay to finish putting enemy into asleep state. Desolate Hands again is more or less useless if you want to use it as shield.
  3. Desolate Hands: I prefer to mod this ability with high strength for that sweet 90% damage reduction and low range so my daggers would not immediately seek out any near by enemy and make me lose my protection. I mainly play Baruuk as tank because of this. Downside is Elude would completely become useless.
  4. Serene Storm: the chance of this ability activating is very very very low and the impact damage ragdoll sucks on tougher enemies. There's no reliable way to generate restraint meter. Sometimes the meter just won't budge at all. I tried using elude, but not killing anything is like leeching in a pub. I tried using lull to generate, but teammates were not very happy about chasing and finding enemies. Desolate hand dagger hits barely move the meter.

Baruuk is definitely one of the less impressive newly released frames.

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Baruuk is very tanky, but that's about it. His damage falls off much harder than most other sources due to its pure Impact type, and his crowd control's either mediocre or slow, not to mention generally undesirable for him to apply due to how a) Lull interferes with evading attacks, and b) Baruuk generally doesn't want to lose Desolate Hands stacks. He's certainly more interesting than, say, Wukong, but doesn't do all that much more in practice, and I agree with the OP that a lot of it comes from a design that is anti-synergistic with itself in a whole lot of different ways. Considering how on top of this Baruuk doesn't really deliver on the pacifist monk theme, imo, as he's not all that incentivized to hold back from attacking, I'd say his kit could use quite a few tweaks to be made more functional, with particular emphasis on making abilities actually work with themselves, not against each other.

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I don't use his 1st unless I need to.revive a team member,which is usually just in fissures I can't go solo.

His daggers is his lifeline,recastable and easy to build to reduce damage. His lul,used just before picking up someone.

I use rush & amalgam serration on most my kits,as movement is more powerful then everything else in the game. I can usually out Sprint the bullet dashing inaros,rhino,Saryn etc and enter my melee preference. 

I but tipedo on him with a unranked clashing forest. It has extreme movement and rips my daggers away fairly quick. By 30% of a interception I can use the fist of fury with 0 restraint. 

Also,if your on PS4 he deals pure impact damage...shatter impact can help deal with heavier targets during is storm.

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No idea what anti-synergy you keep talking about. You ignore his 1, press 3 jump in pack of mobs press 2, bam 1/4 of restrain meter is gone, you keep his 3 with 9+ charges and recast if needed and thats it. Its not rocket science really i can go literally nonstop with my serene storm up all the time. Did 40 waves belenus yesterday turned my serene storm mid round 1 and kept it ON for next 39 rounds. And if you REALLY want to build his restraint very fast you go low as possible on duration and you can spamm Lull on same group of enemies. Also i run vazarin for obj.  healing and can CC anything that come close to it (not like its going happen very often since im melting stuff with serene in aoe). If anything there is HUGE synergy and if you go further in game you are forced to actually sleep/finisher stuff if that is not synergy idk what is. 

Also his 1 and 2 allow you literally take no dmg if you mod him propertly and you actually know what you doing. You can be literally stealth frame without stealth. You can mitigate 100% damage while killing helpless mobs that are just standing around in sleep ready to get blended with melee. 

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