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(PS4)Bug-Slayer07

DE needs to chill with the grind!

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39 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

That maybe the case but they are definitely not Single Player Games.... which is my point....

Turns out you don't need to wait... the problems warframe has already started to affect new players aswell.... losing Veteran's is one thing but being unable to retain new players will definitely be problematic...

Pokemon is ABSOLUTELY -primarily- a single player game.  Optional additional modes are optional.   MK is also, in my way of playing, Arcade Mode = Single Player.  IF I wanna fight someone else, I can, but that's not the main mode.

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Again, based on what metrics?  Stating things doesn't make them more true, kiddo.

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40 minutes ago, F8ted said:

You are like a Zombie. Never the brightest in the crowd, but annoyingly hard to get rid of over and over again. Everything you are describing here, are either ad hominem fallacy, or strawman fallacy. I just never bought the founders pack. That's how long I've been playing. I never got the forum avatar that shows I have been here since the beginning. People like to assume I haven't been farming since well before you knew this was a game. Contextually I am not a player with nothing arguing to fast track myself to the end of the game with no effort. I have put through all the effort every time it is released. I am not even arguing that people should get whatever they want with no effort, instead, I would rather an equal amount of effort necessary for each player. 

Granted, I'm not even sure you are doing anything but Dragon Dictating to whomever you are being quoted by. You obviously didn't read anything I had said. I never once said the devs were stupid, for example. On the contrary, with Baro, Syndicates including Solaris United, Vox Solaris, Ostron, and Quills, and most recently, Nightwave, DE is doing exactly as I am suggesting. The free hunt a wolf missions did the same thing as well. No more "Chance" or "RNG" to find him, it was consistent between all players. They even doubled the drop chance of the worthwhile loot. DE is of course not stupid. You just for some reason think that they are on the side of this RNG madness. It is simply easier to implement. 

Nobody, and I mean -noooooooobody-, cares about how long you've been playing, bud.   Literally noone asked, either.  

Hell, I've probably been going at -life- longer than you.  What's that prove?  Nothin'.   So stop falling back on that like it somehow gets you extra credit or some crap.  I know people who've been in sports for DECADES and still suck.  Time invested =/= skill or knowledge.

----------

You also seem to keep implying that somehow YOUR "special ideas" were the inspiration for DE's decisions and implementations.  As if somehow you're some content-producing, game dev genius.  Clearly, not the case...So again, tone it down a bit with the ego maniac, will ya?

Glad you can google legal terms and all.  I, too, can open wikipedia.  Neat.   It doesn't ADD anything to the discussion.

RNG isn't madness.  DE is clearly "on the side of it" because they've been doing it for 6 years.  That's -evidence-.  Their whole game is based off of it.  It works, it's fine.  

Where they change it, they change it.  Go to Feedback, let 'em know "Well done!"   THAT is how you leave positive feedback.  

You DON'T just go  to GD, insult a bunch of people as if they're lower forms of life than you are, and act surprised when people  don't take it lying down.

Call me whatever you want, but I'm not going anywhere. I have as much a right to have an opinion as you do.   I don't have to agree with yours, and you don't have to agree with mine, but STOP trying to act as though my opinions are "bs" and yours are "fact".  That's not how it works, and I'm not gonna let that rest.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Pokemon is ABSOLUTELY -primarily- a single player game.  Optional additional modes are optional.   MK is also, in my way of playing, Arcade Mode = Single Player.  IF I wanna fight someone else, I can, but that's not the main mode.

----------

Again, based on what metrics?  Stating things doesn't make them more true, kiddo.

https://steamcharts.com/app/230410#1y

Now, this isn't foolproof, but players be dwindling for about a year. Of course it always peaks near large releases, and it generally goes in a positive direction, right now are some hard times for Warframe. One of the most telling problems is exactly how intense the peaks are when new content is released, and how in general those peaks fade very quickly. To add consistency to the game would be to have more retention. Again, giving players free stuff would make the data worse, the peaks would still be there but they would fade more rapidly. If this didn't also correlate with a flooding of the market with the new gear, people might be inclined to stay in game longer. Trouble is, as everyone swallows up the new content and a quick supply of the rewards makes it to market at saturation pricing, the incentive to farm it disappears entirely. In addition the people that were drawn back into the game have just burned themselves out on the only thing that people are consistently farming at that moment. Rather than exciting players with a new game mode, the point is to get the rewards that may be around 10-50p in trade, which one can farm virtually anywhere they choose. The result is the new zone becomes a taboo for being a gate to what players wanted in the first place, and once the rewards are received there is no interest in returning to playing that mode.

This is nothing new actually. Been this way throughout all of Warframe if you want to look through that data a little further. The problem is there is an inconsistent amount of required time to get a reward, and the game has virtually always been presented as "you are doing mission to get reward." Can you blame players for disappearing when you, yourself, believe this so vehemently, that you believe the game will blow up if people didn't have to repeat a mission a thousand times? Once you get what you want, you run off to Apex to farm for some legendary skins. You don't sit around wondering why in the world Tenno can't just share Warframe blueprints, or where the hell all those empty Orokin towers from exterminate go. You care to get your reward, and log off. So do quite a few people. 

For us others, we wonder why it is there is no substantial reason to be doing anything outside of being space pirates. We are clearly advertised as Ninja's bringing balance to the system, but the only thing that gets our butts moving is a new treasure. To Warframe's credit, you most certainly can farm spy for Ivara and Covert Lethality. After that though, there is no point reward wise, or story wise, to continue to do it. It doesn't have to be that way. There is more to this game than the gear rewards, but the focus hurts in the long run. 

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I think 2% is low for an essential item, but with cosmetics it’s not a bad idea to try and have it so not everyone has the same gear.  If everyone has a wolf mask, what’s the fun in having a wolf mask. 

The riven system is not designed to allow us to get the best possible stats for a specific weapon we want to boost, so claiming the rng for doing just that is bad doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.  Instead, the idea is that everyone will get some decent stats for some weapon and that will encourage the use of that weapon.  For example: I got a god tier akmagnus riven.  I didn’t use akmagnus much before, but I do now.   Enabling everyone to get godly rivens for every weapon will just shift the power curve even more and not encourage people to diversify their weapon choices.   

You may not agree with me, but I think one of the fundamental problems with Warframe is not with the game itself but with how people play it.   Your hardcore players seem to be goal fixated.   Focus farm.  Kuva farm.  Platinum farm.  Gold farm.  Endo farm.  It’s mostly self-induced grind in my opinion.  As an example, let’s use the mod Condition Overload.  I have a pc and a PS4 account.   I never tried grinding for CO, and then found it by chance on my pc account but I never got it on PS4, even though I have more than double the hours on PS4.  So one account has CO builds and one does not. Neither account is worse than the other, it’s just one has different weapon choices.  My point being, if people expect to get to do everything and acquire everything in 100 days then the rng and grind is going to look crazy, but someone who plays for an extended period is going to find that they can get most things without a lot of grind as long as they don’t choose to fixate on one item.  

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23 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Nobody, and I mean -noooooooobody-, cares about how long you've been playing, bud.   Literally noone asked, either.  

Hell, I've probably been going at -life- longer than you.  What's that prove?  Nothin'.   So stop falling back on that like it somehow gets you extra credit or some crap.  I know people who've been in sports for DECADES and still suck.  Time invested =/= skill or knowledge.

----------

You also seem to keep implying that somehow YOUR "special ideas" were the inspiration for DE's decisions and implementations.  As if somehow you're some content-producing, game dev genius.  Clearly, not the case...So again, tone it down a bit with the ego maniac, will ya?

Glad you can google legal terms and all.  I, too, can open wikipedia.  Neat.   It doesn't ADD anything to the discussion.

RNG isn't madness.  DE is clearly "on the side of it" because they've been doing it for 6 years.  That's -evidence-.  Their whole game is based off of it.  It works, it's fine.  

Where they change it, they change it.  Go to Feedback, let 'em know "Well done!"   THAT is how you leave positive feedback.  

You DON'T just go  to GD, insult a bunch of people as if they're lower forms of life than you are, and act surprised when people  don't take it lying down.

Call me whatever you want, but I'm not going anywhere. I have as much a right to have an opinion as you do.   I don't have to agree with yours, and you don't have to agree with mine, but STOP trying to act as though my opinions are "bs" and yours are "fact".  That's not how it works, and I'm not gonna let that rest.

Oh yes. Please do stay. You are the most fun I've had on this forum in a while. Remember, I'm usually in game killing thousands of mindless enemies for no reward. This feels like home. 

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2 hours ago, F8ted said:

https://steamcharts.com/app/230410#1y

Now, this isn't foolproof, but players be dwindling for about a year. Of course it always peaks near large releases, and it generally goes in a positive direction, right now are some hard times for Warframe. One of the most telling problems is exactly how intense the peaks are when new content is released, and how in general those peaks fade very quickly. To add consistency to the game would be to have more retention. Again, giving players free stuff would make the data worse, the peaks would still be there but they would fade more rapidly. If this didn't also correlate with a flooding of the market with the new gear, people might be inclined to stay in game longer. Trouble is, as everyone swallows up the new content and a quick supply of the rewards makes it to market at saturation pricing, the incentive to farm it disappears entirely. In addition the people that were drawn back into the game have just burned themselves out on the only thing that people are consistently farming at that moment. Rather than exciting players with a new game mode, the point is to get the rewards that may be around 10-50p in trade, which one can farm virtually anywhere they choose. The result is the new zone becomes a taboo for being a gate to what players wanted in the first place, and once the rewards are received there is no interest in returning to playing that mode.

This is nothing new actually. Been this way throughout all of Warframe if you want to look through that data a little further. The problem is there is an inconsistent amount of required time to get a reward, and the game has virtually always been presented as "you are doing mission to get reward." Can you blame players for disappearing when you, yourself, believe this so vehemently, that you believe the game will blow up if people didn't have to repeat a mission a thousand times? Once you get what you want, you run off to Apex to farm for some legendary skins. You don't sit around wondering why in the world Tenno can't just share Warframe blueprints, or where the hell all those empty Orokin towers from exterminate go. You care to get your reward, and log off. So do quite a few people. 

For us others, we wonder why it is there is no substantial reason to be doing anything outside of being space pirates. We are clearly advertised as Ninja's bringing balance to the system, but the only thing that gets our butts moving is a new treasure. To Warframe's credit, you most certainly can farm spy for Ivara and Covert Lethality. After that though, there is no point reward wise, or story wise, to continue to do it. It doesn't have to be that way. There is more to this game than the gear rewards, but the focus hurts in the long run. 

You are making some seriously wild assumptions, bud.

For one, we're already 6000 up from last May's numbers...  That's almost 10%.  That's not "hard times".  There are also many, MANY other factors to consider here.

What is the social climate like this time of year? Schools are crunching for tests prior to Summer break.  Colleges are graduating.  Is it a popular time to be having kids? Weddings?  As someone who performs for a living, I can tell you that is definitely a thing...

In addition to that, these numbers are ALSO -only- for Steam, not counting the Game's own launcher, nor does it count Consoles.

We just launched on Nintendo Switch.  How many PC players ported to Switch?  If looking only at these Steam numbers, that might present itself as a  downward spike...when in fact, it's an upward spike elsewhere.

Fact is, as I keep saying, you do not possess all of the data to make factual statements.  Nobody does except for DE.  

----

Regarding the second portion of your response....  For many of us, we don't need shiny new toys in order to want to play. Some of us just like to use what we've got, and getting NEW ones is just a bonus.  I simply enjoy running missions for the fun of it, no reward needed.  I do ENJOY getting rewards, who wouldn't?  But they are not the reason I play.

Hell, last time Razorback came through, I ran it like a dozen times even after getting my potato...just because I could.  It was fun, I got to help some newbies out, too!  I don't need DE to bribe me to play their game....it's already a fun game, and so getting to play it...for FREE, no less!... is reward enough -TO ME-.

 Anyways, anyone who wants to try to convince me or anyone else that the game doesn't need a continual stream of content to entice its players....I'll advise you to go search through the forums for last year's rants about "Content Drought".  I don't buy into that crap, but that's what lit these forums up at the time when we didn't have new stuff releasing every other week.

Players don't know what they want.  DE  at least has DATA.  It's cold, hard, objective info on player behavior, and it's far more dependable than bickering nobodies on some thread.

2 hours ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

I think 2% is low for an essential item, but with cosmetics it’s not a bad idea to try and have it so not everyone has the same gear.  If everyone has a wolf mask, what’s the fun in having a wolf mask. 

The riven system is not designed to allow us to get the best possible stats for a specific weapon we want to boost, so claiming the rng for doing just that is bad doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.  Instead, the idea is that everyone will get some decent stats for some weapon and that will encourage the use of that weapon.  For example: I got a god tier akmagnus riven.  I didn’t use akmagnus much before, but I do now.   Enabling everyone to get godly rivens for every weapon will just shift the power curve even more and not encourage people to diversify their weapon choices.   

You may not agree with me, but I think one of the fundamental problems with Warframe is not with the game itself but with how people play it.   Your hardcore players seem to be goal fixated.   Focus farm.  Kuva farm.  Platinum farm.  Gold farm.  Endo farm.  It’s mostly self-induced grind in my opinion.  As an example, let’s use the mod Condition Overload.  I have a pc and a PS4 account.   I never tried grinding for CO, and then found it by chance on my pc account but I never got it on PS4, even though I have more than double the hours on PS4.  So one account has CO builds and one does not. Neither account is worse than the other, it’s just one has different weapon choices.  My point being, if people expect to get to do everything and acquire everything in 100 days then the rng and grind is going to look crazy, but someone who plays for an extended period is going to find that they can get most things without a lot of grind as long as they don’t choose to fixate on one item.  

Can I just copy and paste this response on -everyone's- posts that complain from here on out?  

Thank you for "getting it". Sincerely, thank you.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

You may not agree with me, but I think one of the fundamental problems with Warframe is not with the game itself but with how people play it.   Your hardcore players seem to be goal fixated.   Focus farm.  Kuva farm.  Platinum farm.  Gold farm.  Endo farm.  It’s mostly self-induced grind in my opinion.  As an example, let’s use the mod Condition Overload.  I have a pc and a PS4 account.   I never tried grinding for CO, and then found it by chance on my pc account but I never got it on PS4, even though I have more than double the hours on PS4.  So one account has CO builds and one does not. Neither account is worse than the other, it’s just one has different weapon choices.  My point being, if people expect to get to do everything and acquire everything in 100 days then the rng and grind is going to look crazy, but someone who plays for an extended period is going to find that they can get most things without a lot of grind as long as they don’t choose to fixate on one item.  

I actually have a story similar to this:

When Sovereign Outcast released, myself and 3 buddies all got together to try and farm it up. We must've spent two straight days sitting in corners with various mixes of Vauban, Speed Nova, any farming frame, and at least one Zenistar among the group. All of us happened to have the two days off from work/school/other obligations and we fully expected to have the thing within a few hours of focused farming.

We finally get it. We're all fed up. Burnt out. Never want to see the Kuva Fortress again. We split to go play other games or do less grind intensive things within Warframe. None of us are even using our Tonfas because we're so fed up, except one person who mostly uses them for fashion purposes.

Fast forward to a short while later when we're all casually coming together to do the hourly Kuva Flood and we drop Sovereign Outcast. Every time that stance drops, now, we make a point to mark it and have a dig at that horrible extended farming session.

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23 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

You are making some seriously wild assumptions, bud.

For one, we're already 6000 up from last May's numbers...  That's almost 10%.  That's not "hard times".  There are also many, MANY other factors to consider here.

What is the social climate like this time of year? Schools are crunching for tests prior to Summer break.  Colleges are graduating.  Is it a popular time to be having kids? Weddings?  As someone who performs for a living, I can tell you that is definitely a thing...

In addition to that, these numbers are ALSO -only- for Steam, not counting the Game's own launcher, nor does it count Consoles.

We just launched on Nintendo Switch.  How many PC players ported to Switch?  If looking only at these Steam numbers, that might present itself as a  downward spike...when in fact, it's an upward spike elsewhere.

Fact is, as I keep saying, you do not possess all of the data to make factual statements.  Nobody does except for DE.  

----

Regarding the second portion of your response....  For many of us, we don't need shiny new toys in order to want to play. Some of us just like to use what we've got, and getting NEW ones is just a bonus.  I simply enjoy running missions for the fun of it, no reward needed.  I do ENJOY getting rewards, who wouldn't?  But they are not the reason I play.

Hell, last time Razorback came through, I ran it like a dozen times even after getting my potato...just because I could.  It was fun, I got to help some newbies out, too!  I don't need DE to bribe me to play their game....it's already a fun game, and so getting to play it...for FREE, no less!... is reward enough -TO ME-.

 Anyways, anyone who wants to try to convince me or anyone else that the game doesn't need a continual stream of content to entice its players....I'll advise you to go search through the forums for last year's rants about "Content Drought".  I don't buy into that crap, but that's what lit these forums up at the time when we didn't have new stuff releasing every other week.

Players don't know what they want.  DE  at least has DATA.  It's cold, hard, objective info on player behavior, and it's far more dependable than bickering nobodies on some thread.

Can I just copy and paste this response on -everyone's- posts that complain from here on out?  

Thank you for "getting it". Sincerely, thank you.

You are just a contrarian lol. Look again its absolutely a gas to keep having you present 0 argument against facts. You can hypothetically say "this other thing could be the case", but you are adding nothing. You posses absolutely 0 data, and stutter willy nilly over false equivalents and strawmen. Then you ad hominem. You too are a bickering nobody my observant friend. Your entire discussion here is fundamentally against forum rules. I'm actually kind of surprised, especially since the topic itself isn't one of any particular value, why a moderator hasn't stricken this from the forums. More fun I suppose. 

@Chipputer My sentiments exactly. The entire problem with RNG is summed up well in that anecdote. Players have millions of these stories. I do too. Concealed explosives was my "why the heck wont this mod drop" for some time. Never seen it in spy. Farmed the entire Ivara set, multiple covert lethalitys. Finally got it off some random corpus. Now was I hurt? Nah, I had it shortly after it was introduced because I know trade exists and 10p is less than the weapon slot + catalyst the weapon it would be on requires. Do I think it absolutely leads to people "taking a break from the game"? I have been that person. I have watched my entire clan empty because the farm is outrageous. It isn't log on and do 20% of the farm you need to do. It's log on and pray that you get a 0.1% chance drop that day. If you do then wooohooo, your farm is done. If not you have just wasted an entire day doing nothing even in the nothing activity playing video games is. 

Why do we suppose the most popular games currently are games that have removed loot farming entirely? People don't mind spending time in game and looking like they have spent time in game. People do not want to make a job out of reaching the level of other players that have preceded them for years. People want access to gameplay, and don't mind a reasonable, but apparent effort in accessing that gameplay. People can pay any amount for cosmetics, like what the Clem do you think Prime Access is about? The only sensible reason to buy it is for the exclusive cosmetics. Otherwise it is priced at about 20 times what a player would charge you, and people know this. Also happens to be why they keep those cosmetics in the packs. 

Again, fortunately for me, DE is moving in the right direction. Especially with Nightwave, and the intention to streamline the missions and progress, they are making a huge difference in the design of effort vs reward. It has removed RNG from Nitain, Auras, Vauban, Helmets, Reactors, Catalysts and Forma. This is huge. With a re focus on world maps with ambiguous mission objectives and consistent buy able rewards from vendors they are bringing this game into the modern era.   

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4 minutes ago, F8ted said:

Concealed explosives was my "why the heck wont this mod drop" for some time. Never seen it in spy. Farmed the entire Ivara set, multiple covert lethalitys. Finally got it off some random corpus.

Er, could you elaborate?  Concealed Explosives doesn't drop from Spy missions, it drops from a few types of Ospreys.

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12 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Er, could you elaborate?  Concealed Explosives doesn't drop from Spy missions, it drops from a few types of Ospreys.

Hahahahahaha no kidding it never dropped. Well, either way. Guess it still never dropped in all the Corpus missions I've played since it was introduced. Though that's lovely. Guess at least I got a bunch of Cover Lethality's. 

 

PS EDIT: And it's not as though I'm not routinely farming Corpus. I need me some Broken War pieces, which I farm in Tycho. I don't have it yet, never even seen a piece drop, but I've fallen more in love since Umbra+Paracesis with using it as my go to solo survival cuz I can. On top of that, it appears to drop of of Mutalist Ospreys at the same rate. I farmed the Hema with my clan. That's another perspective on the ludicrous nature of RNG. I could almost understand if it was because it was tucked away in a mode that is at best tolerated. Now knowing that was my actual luck with this is a different through the looking glass.

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41 minutes ago, F8ted said:

Hahahahahaha no kidding it never dropped. Well, either way. Guess it still never dropped in all the Corpus missions I've played since it was introduced. Though that's lovely. Guess at least I got a bunch of Cover Lethality's.

PS EDIT: And it's not as though I'm not routinely farming Corpus. I need me some Broken War pieces, which I farm in Tycho. I don't have it yet, never even seen a piece drop, but I've fallen more in love since Umbra+Paracesis with using it as my go to solo survival cuz I can. On top of that, it appears to drop of of Mutalist Ospreys at the same rate. I farmed the Hema with my clan. That's another perspective on the ludicrous nature of RNG. I could almost understand if it was because it was tucked away in a mode that is at best tolerated. Now knowing that was my actual luck with this is a different through the looking glass.

Oh yeah, I know that feeling.  I think I spent a couple weeks farming Hive on and off trying to get the two 60/60 Shock mods that it doesn't drop.

For the topic itself, I'd still like to see some sort of system where repeated attempts does improve chances per run, resetting upon drop.  My biggest issue with the loot system is that, if you're unlucky, it's still not really satisfying when it finally drops.  I've cracked at least 25 Radiant Lith M4 Relics, with no Mesa Neuroptics in sight.  I know that's within expectation in terms of probability, but when it eventually does drop it's not really going to be a relief because I've had multiple times where I've rolled the rare reward first try, I'll probably just be annoyed that it took so long for seemingly arbitrary reasons.

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5 hours ago, F8ted said:

You are just a contrarian lol. Look again its absolutely a gas to keep having you present 0 argument against facts. You can hypothetically say "this other thing could be the case", but you are adding nothing. You posses absolutely 0 data, and stutter willy nilly over false equivalents and strawmen. Then you ad hominem. You too are a bickering nobody my observant friend. Your entire discussion here is fundamentally against forum rules. I'm actually kind of surprised, especially since the topic itself isn't one of any particular value, why a moderator hasn't stricken this from the forums. More fun I suppose. 

@Chipputer My sentiments exactly. The entire problem with RNG is summed up well in that anecdote. Players have millions of these stories. I do too. Concealed explosives was my "why the heck wont this mod drop" for some time. Never seen it in spy. Farmed the entire Ivara set, multiple covert lethalitys. Finally got it off some random corpus. Now was I hurt? Nah, I had it shortly after it was introduced because I know trade exists and 10p is less than the weapon slot + catalyst the weapon it would be on requires. Do I think it absolutely leads to people "taking a break from the game"? I have been that person. I have watched my entire clan empty because the farm is outrageous. It isn't log on and do 20% of the farm you need to do. It's log on and pray that you get a 0.1% chance drop that day. If you do then wooohooo, your farm is done. If not you have just wasted an entire day doing nothing even in the nothing activity playing video games is. 

Why do we suppose the most popular games currently are games that have removed loot farming entirely? People don't mind spending time in game and looking like they have spent time in game. People do not want to make a job out of reaching the level of other players that have preceded them for years. People want access to gameplay, and don't mind a reasonable, but apparent effort in accessing that gameplay. People can pay any amount for cosmetics, like what the Clem do you think Prime Access is about? The only sensible reason to buy it is for the exclusive cosmetics. Otherwise it is priced at about 20 times what a player would charge you, and people know this. Also happens to be why they keep those cosmetics in the packs. 

Again, fortunately for me, DE is moving in the right direction. Especially with Nightwave, and the intention to streamline the missions and progress, they are making a huge difference in the design of effort vs reward. It has removed RNG from Nitain, Auras, Vauban, Helmets, Reactors, Catalysts and Forma. This is huge. With a re focus on world maps with ambiguous mission objectives and consistent buy able rewards from vendors they are bringing this game into the modern era.   

You literally just described what you're doing, but blamed me for doing it.  Stop projecting, dude.

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On 2019-05-19 at 6:33 PM, (PS4)Bug-Slayer07 said:

alot of things

you have excellent penmanship i wish i could write that clearly i write like im a frigging 5th grader  

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11 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Pokemon is ABSOLUTELY -primarily- a single player game.  Optional additional modes are optional.   MK is also, in my way of playing, Arcade Mode = Single Player.  IF I wanna fight someone else, I can, but that's not the main mode.

----------

Again, based on what metrics?  Stating things doesn't make them more true, kiddo.

I told you...I don't know about Pokemon... by MK... definitely not a single player game.... and you playing it as such doesn't make it one anymore than playing Warframe Solo makes it not a Co-Op Game....

What stupid thing to argue about it....

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11 hours ago, F8ted said:

To Warframe's credit, you most certainly can farm spy for Ivara and Covert Lethality. After that though, there is no point reward wise, or story wise, to continue to do it. It doesn't have to be that way. There is more to this game than the gear rewards, but the focus hurts in the long run. 

And iwish DE would address this issue head on.... lately it seems like its all about Distracting us with a new shiny.... Right now is Gas city or whatever....new mods new Warframe new junk but the same old grind....

Sigh....

9 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I simply enjoy running missions for the fun of it, no reward needed.  I do ENJOY getting rewards, who wouldn't?  But they are not the reason I play.

Good for you... and ONLY YOU....

9 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Players don't know what they want.  DE  at least has DATA.  It's cold, hard, objective info on player behavior, and it's far more dependable than bickering nobodies on some thread.

They have numbers about where players are and what they are doing.... they have little to no clue about what the experience for these players is like....

They just shove rewards into some randomly cobbled together game mod and when players grind to get those rewards.... regrdless of how miserable the expetience they just look at the numbers and say: "It Works..." 

LoL... player satisfaction is very important and DE likes to push how much they can get away with.... its good for getting numbers immediately but sure enough once people get their Shineys.... those modes start dying off... I remember when Cetus as a whole barely got any traffic.... 

 

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10 hours ago, Lutesque said:

And iwish DE would address this issue head on.... lately it seems like its all about Distracting us with a new shiny.... Right now is Gas city or whatever....new mods new Warframe new junk but the same old grind....

Sigh....

Good for you... and ONLY YOU....

They have numbers about where players are and what they are doing.... they have little to no clue about what the experience for these players is like....

They just shove rewards into some randomly cobbled together game mod and when players grind to get those rewards.... regrdless of how miserable the expetience they just look at the numbers and say: "It Works..." 

LoL... player satisfaction is very important and DE likes to push how much they can get away with.... its good for getting numbers immediately but sure enough once people get their Shineys.... those modes start dying off... I remember when Cetus as a whole barely got any traffic.... 

 

So, you believe I'm the only player out of 10's of MILLIONS of registered players...to enjoy playing for the sake of it?  That's just delusional.

And more made up metrics here, you stating that you KNOW how DE thinks and acts, and what they make decisions on.  I mean, they TELL us on DevStreams, they bring us in and we hear things straight from the horses' mouths, as it were...

..but yeah, I'm sure some kid on the forums definitely knows the "real" truth much better.  /s

I mean, come ON dude, who are you kidding?  It has never, apparently, occurred to you for even a second to consider that maybe, just MAYBE, your info is the incorrect info here?

The "new shiny" is what players BEGGED for for the last 2 years since TWW, claiming "We don't need more cinematic quests! We'd rather have more frequent content drops! NO CONTENT DROUGHT!"  ...This is what that leads to.  And now you're crucifying DE for giving y'all exactly what you asked for...

"the same old grind" IS Warframe.  It's never lied about that. It's never hidden that.  It's been that game for 6 YEARS now...  If you don't like that, you might just not like Warframe.  If you DO insist you enjoy Warframe, then you'll need to deal. The game isn't going to just fundamentally change overnight to suit the vocal minority of a forum relatively few of the playerbase even frequent.

I mean, your logic is flawed in ways I can't begin to get into here.... Just as a small example, going after the "quick numbers" makes no sense from a business perspective. You're implying they're ignoring what players WANT for a "quick boosts", but that's asinine!  It'd mean long-term that they'd constantly be losing players and need to spend MORE resources on CONSTANTLY replenishing those lost players AS WELL AS building up MORE new players because they need to show investors they have GROWTH (which they do, btw. There are actual facts to prove that, not just conjecture).

It'd actually take MORE effort, and considerably more money to run things that way.

it's far simpler, more logical, and more likely they're actually working on good intel based on actual player feedback (that, hey, you, not a DE employee or affiliate in any way, might not be privvy to!  Imagine that :P), and have been delivering what the majority ACTUALLY are enjoying!  

I'm not stating Warframe or DE are perfect. They're not, noone is.  But they're not some ignorant group of failed developers sitting in a room counting their coins around a fire while scheming about how to rob us all blind.

I mean, if that's the case....maybe starting with a FREE game where everything is FREE is probably a bad plan?  "I'll show THEM who's boss! I'll show up to work and work TWICE as hard and for HALF the pay! THATLL TEACH 'EM!"  

I mean, seriously..

Can we just stop with the back and forth flaming? It's not productive, it's not a good look for the community, and honestly, we've both got better things to do.

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On 2019-05-20 at 4:59 AM, trst said:

So you have an issue with rng based systems, not grind.

If you have any productive feedback on how to change these systems feel free to go make a thread about them in the feedback forums.

There are and have been thousands of those - hasn't changed anything this far.

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On 2019-05-21 at 10:06 PM, F8ted said:

I have invested arguably more time than you have in game, or at least a similar 6 year tenure. 

 This.  This anecdotal hogwash of an argument is the worst way to even attempt a point.  🤨

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22 hours ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

 This.  This anecdotal hogwash of an argument is the worst way to even attempt a point.  🤨

And just farmed up all the rewards dropped in the update. Just came here to thank the DE lords for a Nullifier fix, and behold, your glorious comment. I honestly never really cared about this thread. I am always the "wastes my life away through the hotfixes" type of content farmer. Look. I am certainly not the "doesn't play this game type that wants things for free". On the contrary. I put the effort in every single one. I'd just like to have some of my IRL friends not consider this game a joke. I can't really present it as such when it's loot and RNG system remains as is. The lovely part, is that it appears DE is listening and I am for sure giving them positive feedback for it. So you feel better. Why don't we say you won this little round, you and that other fellow? You guys sure trolled me X.X

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