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Zyga21

youtube video claims it's for the majority of users but since I have no soapbox I can't refute it

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People aren't wise sages for having a youtube account. Not everyone that talks into a camera knows what they are saying. We are aware of this. A lot of things on youtube are to be ignored because its just people trying to get attention/views/moolah

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1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

I agree with his  "I'd rather play warframe solo because it's more optimized to do so" but likely not for the reasons relates to optimization. I agree with it from the standpoint of a horrible matchmaking system and the host migration issues. But the benefits and fun of a group far outshines those.

The MM system does need an improvement, I'm not OK with it saying "Ping-limit? Wuts that buddy? Here you go! I found a mission for you -zoink-" and you end up in a mission where the ping is 500 even though you set it to the rather high 150.

I've almost never tripped into a random team that was fun or interesting to team with.  At best, I end up in one where everyone is competent and actually has some idea how their powers interact with other Warframes.  And are able to either take advantage of possible synergy, or at least not screw over everyone by using powers that actively conflict with team members.  (Hello to any Limbo who thinks randomly flinging Banish at team mates and/or random enemies is "helping.")

I'm reasonably sure the matchmaking system actually ignores the ping limit completely unless you're trying to go to a dojo (such as for trading.)  Because I've got mind set to 150 as well, despite the fact that I'm on a DSL connection where my access point is apparently on the far side of the state.  (As in, when websites try to guess my location based on my IP address, they're missing the target by several hundred miles.)  I usually have about 80ms of ping to even be online.  A ping limit of 150 should mean that I basically never get teamed with anyone.  Instead, I'll regularly get dropped into missions with ping of 400-600ms.  Not *quite* as bad as if I was playing from the Moon.  But only just.

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People like that are the reason I don't watch many youtubers, except for the meme ones. Too many clickbait titles and videos just barely over the 10 minute mark to tack on ad revenue for it while they repeat the same stuff over and over that's been said a million times before. He's one of those "oh my god the devs dropped an insignificant amount of info about an update, I had better go make an 11 minute video over one sentence and prattle off nonsensically hoping my clickbait title will lure people in for that sweet quarter of a penny per view" kinds of youtubers. 

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31 minutes ago, (XB1)Dredd1973 said:

Also, opinions, especially you tube streamers, are like butt holes. Everyone has one and they're usually just as smelly.

😂 so true. (btw, what this post is about? 😏)

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5 minutes ago, Zyga21 said:

I see, but wouldn't it just be better to play like a game that's focused on a single player stealth experience? I understand that warframe has a lot to offer in this area but like it's a game meant for many different styles of playing. I didn't mean to say that you were a new player, just that that was my new player experience. But since this is the way you choose to play the game theres also nothing I can say or would want to say to try and change your opinion on it. I just want to say that I've never said my way of playing is the only way of playing, I said that his opinion should not be taken as everyone's opinion.

None of the "single player stealth experience" games appeal to me.  And none of them allow me to take the same character and switch to an Exterminate mission as the next thing I do.  And then take the same character spearfishing for an hour while I listen to an audiobook, or whatever.  I play Warframe because "techno organic ninja space wizards."  There isn't a singleplayer game that provides the same kind of gameplay.  When I'm tired of Warframe (such as after I finished getting to level 30 in Nightwave and was completely fed up with the grind to get the cosmetic rewards that were literally the only things that interested me) I switch to one of the "survival builder" games I own that I can play singleplayer and offline.  Such as Ark, or Space Engineers, or Minecraft, or Terraria, or Conan Exiles, or 7 Days to Die.

Personally, I play online multiplayer games *despite* the fact that they are online and multiplayer.  Not because of it.  Usually because there's something about the game I enjoy enough to outweigh that immense drawback.  For Warframe or Star Trek Online, it's because there are aspects of the setting and game mechanics that simply don't exist in singleplayer games.  There is no singleplayer game where I can play a huge variety of different ninja space wizards who still share all the progress that I've made.  And where I can almost completely change the gameplay simply by switching to a different character.  For Star Trek Online, there isn't another Star Trek game where I can make almost any captain I want, in command of any of hundreds of different Star Trek themed ships, with a crew I can choose and customize completely.  Heck, there's barely any other Star Trek games *at all* and most of those are fifteen or twenty years old now.  So to experience the parts that I enjoy, I have to tolerate being online and occasionally having other players in my game.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

Not only is it overall more efficient to have more players but you also get 4 rolls, as opposed to one, in every fissure reward table when you have a full party. The game has always-- always-- rewarded a full party much more than a single player.

This is what you call co-op? Rolling more loot? That is your 'much more rewarded' multiplayer?

No mention of that fact that people rarely play as a team, if at all? I mean I do it, but I play out of meta, and I am happier for it. But my observation is that people just go on on their solo spree to show how much damage they can do. 

Edited by YazMatazO
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6 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

He hasn't. Watch the full video without a preconceived idea and you will see he doesn't summarize it.

Yeah, I have to note that OP both put straight up false claim in the topic title and the post itself is the definition of "taking things out of context"
And I don't even watch iFlynn. It's the first vid of his I've ever seen.

About solo play.

8 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

For me, playing solo is the rule.  I only team if I have essentially no choice

Exactly this for me as well. With the exception of being able to solo spiders so thankfully I don't need to have other people here as well. It's just way better that way. The exceptions I can think of are:
Relic runs because 4 choices are better than less than 4 choices. But I seriously only need these people (as they do need me) to be here to generate an extra reward option. I don't need their help. They don't need my help. We play a mission together without playing it together, more of a parallel speedrun, pick our choices and depart without saying goodbye. Not much "coop" here is it?
No damage defense challenge for rivens. I'm honestly glad to have my friend with me here. Just ONE friend tho. But I suppose that still counts kinda?
Leveling on SO/ESO when it's some throwaway weapon I have no interest in. Shared affinity is nice. But it's more of exploiting my team, and them exploting my kills (so it's fair overall?). I'm still not working WITH them. And then, they'll leave at wave 2-4 because raisins. *Shrug*

Overall, I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, OP. If you disagree with someone, it's all good, but it doesn't seem like the 2nd side of that argument really has an opportunity or a reason to respond, has it? Unless you plan to try and link that YT guy this topic and see if he has something to say here? Idk. He might make a reponse video instead where he'd proceed to deconstruct your every point (not that there's much to deconstruct to be fair because context is the key, and you are sorely missing it) and make some coin from YT along the way. So not only are you fighting a pretty much losing battle (and tbh you aren't doing a good job), you might end up helping the guy in the end.

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Just now, YazMatazO said:

This is what you call co-op? Rolling more loot? That is your 'much more rewarded' multiplayer?

No mention of that fact that people largely play as a team, if at all. I mean I do it, but I play out of meta, and I am happier for it. But my observation is that people just go on on their solo spree to show how much damage they can do. 

Yeah, I definitely only mentioned loot.

Efficiency doesn't just refer to loot. It also refers to synergistic playstyles that are mutually beneficial for all involved. I can't buff myself with Smite Infusion. It's a dead augment for a primarily solo player like myself.
You are rewarded in both gameplay and in loot obtained for playing in a party. Even if you all go hallway hero you still end up with more spawns meaning you progress faster.

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1 hour ago, Zyga21 said:

Chipputer already put it well by saying 

I'm just going to add on by saying that yes you /can/ play solo and if you dislike dealing with slow players it might even be a better option for you, but the game is easier and more rewarding with more players, it's a choice to play alone.

 

(there are also times in which you really should play alone, like when trying to unlock rivens or something but, there will always be exceptions.)

Well, from what I can gather, he actually put it rather poorly. His only example of 'much more rewarded' multiplayer is rolling more loot. That's a far cry from a party-based, co-op experience. Not to mention that if loot is your incentive number one in Warframe, very soon you will join the horde of 'no-endgame, because no rewards.' 

Like I said, I don't give a nickel about anyone's validity on a platform, but the point that there is less incentive to go co-op is valid. 

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4 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

None of the "single player stealth experience" games appeal to me.  And none of them allow me to take the same character and switch to an Exterminate mission as the next thing I do.  And then take the same character spearfishing for an hour while I listen to an audiobook, or whatever.  I play Warframe because "techno organic ninja space wizards."  There isn't a singleplayer game that provides the same kind of gameplay.  When I'm tired of Warframe (such as after I finished getting to level 30 in Nightwave and was completely fed up with the grind to get the cosmetic rewards that were literally the only things that interested me) I switch to one of the "survival builder" games I own that I can play singleplayer and offline.  Such as Ark, or Space Engineers, or Minecraft, or Terraria, or Conan Exiles, or 7 Days to Die.

Personally, I play online multiplayer games *despite* the fact that they are online and multiplayer.  Not because of it.  Usually because there's something about the game I enjoy enough to outweigh that immense drawback.  For Warframe or Star Trek Online, it's because there are aspects of the setting and game mechanics that simply don't exist in singleplayer games.  There is no singleplayer game where I can play a huge variety of different ninja space wizards who still share all the progress that I've made.  And where I can almost completely change the gameplay simply by switching to a different character.  For Star Trek Online, there isn't another Star Trek game where I can make almost any captain I want, in command of any of hundreds of different Star Trek themed ships, with a crew I can choose and customize completely.  Heck, there's barely any other Star Trek games *at all* and most of those are fifteen or twenty years old now.  So to experience the parts that I enjoy, I have to tolerate being online and occasionally having other players in my game.

I have to give you a lot of respect for that. I feel like that would suck when a lot of the updates are more geared toward the population that likes playing online. If you do ever want to try out a group or something I'd always be up to play, even though I know that's not what you want 😜

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Yeah, I definitely only mentioned loot.

Efficiency doesn't just refer to loot. It also refers to synergistic playstyles that are mutually beneficial for all involved. I can't buff myself with Smite Infusion. It's a dead augment for a primarily solo player like myself.
You are rewarded in both gameplay and in loot obtained for playing in a party. Even if you all go hallway hero you still end up with more spawns meaning you progress faster.

You do still realise that neither of these points refer to co-op gameplay, per se? Right?...

I expressed my opinion that the point in the video for declining co-op in Warframe is correct. You come back at me by saying that playing together with other people is more efficient in terms of, I suppose, grinding, to put it simply. Co-op and grinding is not the same thing, mate. I think you're missing the mark a little. 

Edited by YazMatazO

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For people saying I'm taking this all out of context, where and how exactly? he says his opinion as if it's the majority in his own video, you can watch it yourself.

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1 hour ago, o0Despair0o said:

> Reads title

> Scrolls down

> Meta-slave mainstream youtuber Icon in video thumbnail and clickbait title

 

Welcome to 2019, where being a somewhat successful youtuber equals being a god.

Allow me to quote myself:

 

"You know what the problem with youtubers is these days?

They think they're better than anyone else and people actually believe them.

 

In today's day and age, having a lot of subscribers equals being worshipped as a god. And you know what kind of stupid things people do for something they believe in.

And if one of those Youtubers says something sucks, everyone suddenly agrees, because obviously that keyboard warrior knows better."

You put the hammer on the nail as of why I watch so few of these wf meta slavers. They make people believe what isnt top teir in their eyes is S#&$. It's like people stop thinking for themselves of how to play this game. 

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Just now, YazMatazO said:

You do still realise that neither of these points refer to co-op gameplay, per se? Right?...

I expressed my opinion that the mention in the video for declining co-op in Warframe is correct. You come back to me by saying that playing together with other people is more efficient in terms of, I suppose, grinding, to put it simply. Co-op and grinding is not the same thing, mate. I think you're missing the mark a little. 

>synergistic play styles that are mutually beneficial for all involved

If you're going to blatantly ignore what I'm saying then you're not really worth my time.

We have plenty of content that encourages co-op but most of it is possible solo. When you're at end game and can throw numbers at everything to win then of course co-op is going to decline for you. This is a skewn perception that many veterans of the game have.
Excavations, Eidolons, Survivals, Defenses, Kuva Survival-- a small sampling of game modes that have plenty of encouragement to co-operate with other players both to make the mission go smoother and to get more loot since you can last longer or repeat the mission even faster.

Stop trying to decouple the idea of, "co-op," from the core gameplay loop in order to make your point.

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26 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

I've almost never tripped into a random team that was fun or interesting to team with.  At best, I end up in one where everyone is competent and actually has some idea how their powers interact with other Warframes.  And are able to either take advantage of possible synergy, or at least not screw over everyone by using powers that actively conflict with team members.  (Hello to any Limbo who thinks randomly flinging Banish at team mates and/or random enemies is "helping.")

I'm reasonably sure the matchmaking system actually ignores the ping limit completely unless you're trying to go to a dojo (such as for trading.)  Because I've got mind set to 150 as well, despite the fact that I'm on a DSL connection where my access point is apparently on the far side of the state.  (As in, when websites try to guess my location based on my IP address, they're missing the target by several hundred miles.)  I usually have about 80ms of ping to even be online.  A ping limit of 150 should mean that I basically never get teamed with anyone.  Instead, I'll regularly get dropped into missions with ping of 400-600ms.  Not *quite* as bad as if I was playing from the Moon.  But only just.

Oh the "fun" part comes into effect when I play with complete idiots aswell, because it can actually cause me to laugh etc. regarding how bad some players can be. Sometimes I just get enjoyment out of those silly things. Just the other day when I was playing Overwatch I had to step away fromt he computer because a Doomfist on the other team almost made me die from lauging. He kept making the same mistake over and over, missing the spot where he wanted to land on launched himself into the abyss. Such things you can never experience on your own... well maybe I could if I played Doomfist.

And you might be right with the pinglimit being ignored, would make sense.

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44 minutes ago, Zyga21 said:

I don't understand how the new updates neglect veteran players, they are easier for them but they're also new content, could you elaborate on this?

Depending on where you are in warframe.

If you're still early on, when new update hits, it's merely a deviation from the other goals you have to accomplish.

It's as if you're eating a 30 course meal and on course 10 they bring out one of the desserts a little early. 

 

Veterans on the other hand tend to have consumed the content to an excess and ONLY have the next thing.

In this case, they've already had the full 30 course meal and are waiting for the 31st meal to be brought out, which is often consumed faster than it took to make it and they're left waiting again as there tends to be no reason to re-engage in newer updates once they're completed.

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Youtubers opinions are not ones to be taken seriously. They are known to exaggerate and lie to get extra views on their videos. Youtubers come out with new "the end is near" videos every week. Its nothing new, and nothing worth  paying attention to. Their opinions are next to meaningless because you can't tell if its their genuine opinion or just something came up with for views.

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1 hour ago, Cyclouros said:

People aren't wise sages for having a youtube account.

So does that mean I am a wise sage for not having one?

On-topic: Doomsayers have been around since cavemen, if Warframe is to die eventually then it will die when it is supposed to, not because of a bunch of people on Youtube are saying it will.

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1 minute ago, Aldain said:

So does that mean I am a wise sage for not having one?

On-topic: Doomsayers have been around since cavemen, if Warframe is to die eventually then it will die when it is supposed to, not because of a bunch of people on Youtube are saying it will.

Avoiding the frantic masses would be a wise move.

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1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

All I will say here is that both, Flynn and this post are right, for they are two different yet valid points of view that caters to the different types of players that constitute the whole playerbase.

That and that it seems to me DE has learnt nothing from the War Within, that their dev cycle becomes huger and huger with bigger gaps in between, that this year they have made a number of decisions that truly make no sense, that resources are everytime scarcer for, not only cool, but their own marketing and that all in all, as Steve put it once, they're clearly trying to eat more than they can actually chew. Again.

Design Council members feel less valued as time goes on, the veteran players have less and less reason to do stuff in the game, clans are hardly useful (yes, we're getting a new operation now, but what about the next one?) and at the end of the day, the people who have been supporting the company and the game for years, purchasing regularly Prime Access, offering well thought feedback and helped the game grow (either making videos, being super active on social networks or by making suggestions that make it in) are showing huge, valid concerns for it.

And the same way I won't expect everyone to be unhappy, no one here can expect people to agree on that everything is fine. Because it clearly isn't.

Also, watching the video it's pretty clear the opening post of the thread dumbs it down to absurd levels. If I had gone by the post alone I would have misinterpreted the whole thing.

And honestly, I can't see the thread evolving into anything constructive.

He hasn't. Watch the full video without a preconceived idea and you will see he doesn't summarize it.

Can't. At work, crappy signal. 

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somehow I knew this was about iFlynn.

 

just ignore him

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Or TL:DR - its always best to experience something for yourself and form your own opinions.

I sometimes think relying on YouTubers for accurate and useful feedback on a game is like relying on Israelis to give opinions about Palestinians (ooh getting political!)

 

If you look hard enough you will find maybe a few that will give considered, balanced judgements and clearly distinguish between their opinions, assumptions and facts. But for the most part they just seem to make the most clickbait-y content possible, in the hopes of getting more votes, subscribers etc.

 

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Youtube is a cesspool for wana bes who think anyone cares about their oppinion, nothing new in this video, ignore and move on.

In all honesty, youtube should stop monetization of things like this.

 

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2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Or TL:DR - its always best to experience something for yourself and form your own opinions.

I don't think it's that people rely on them for their opinions. I more think it's that a burnt out veteran is looking for someone to echo their sentiments so they find a veteran Warframe youtuber and then they latch onto that person's viewpoint because it feels like it gives their own some more credibility.

"See? This guy with [subscriber number here] subs feels the same way! I must not be crazy after all!"

The problem is that youtubers, in general, have become a major part of our popular culture and their opinions, on all things (not just Warframe), are taken way too seriously and they, in turn, take themselves way too seriously. The amount of times I've heard some youtuber make a minor mis-step and say, "I should be held to a higher standard," within their apology is actually comical.

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I can understand some of what you did...but this was not the way to go about it.   You rarely went after his points with real counters....you were dismissive or you went after him.  If you think that is a good idea....well, no wonder the world seems crappy to you.  It is like the white person saying there is no racism because you don't see it.  It is like man saying women are treated equally because you were never on the other side of the coin.   Your lack of empathy just is not cool.

Nitpicking at timestamps is poor form.  It indicates your do not have a cohesive counter argument that would stick.   I see this all the time coming from people who bucket dippers and not bucket fillers.   Your counters are dismissive of a persons opinion.  For a person who says "they want a 2-way discussion", I find that dubious at best.    At the end you stated "I really hope that one of them can give me a good reason why the game is trash" blatantly indicated you won't be shifted from your stance unless there is some overwhelming example that YOU AGREE with.  On something such as a game, which is entirely subjective, you put the bar that almost nobody can reach.   But did iFlynn ever say the game was trash...no he didn't.  You implied he stated that...again being downright crappy attacking the person.

For the people going after thumbnails/titles...blame YT.   You are being disingenuous by being willfully ignorant of what it takes to survive on YT.  The current algorithm almost demands thumbnails of a certain type and click-baity titles.  If you do not do this...you will fade away from YT.  You could say the most intelligent things known to man which would result in the cure for cancer.  But if your title is boring and so is your thumbnail...welcome to oblivion.  It will only get worse when real time click through rates go into place meaning the content creators are going to be able to see in real time how their video is doing and change the thumbnail/title on the fly to try and tweak it.  YT channels would not ask you to like/subscribe/bell if it do not help their channel.  If you really wanna get a feel on what YT content creators have to do...look up vertasium.    He is probably the first person to clearly explain the current state of YT and why what is happening is happening.    Simply put...quality content will only get you so far in the current "meta" of YT.  

Notice I did not talk about what he stated in the video at all.  That was intentional.   Whether or not I agree with him is irrelevant.  What is relevant is that his stance was cohesive and well written.  He put significant effort into making that video.   If you do not acknowledge that..then there no "2-way" conversation.  Instead, lets just pick one person and one video and use this as a landmark example taken out of context to degrade everything he has done and others have done in order to make your point.  Personally, I don't think you could handle a 2-way conversation with someone you don't agree with.   Maybe i'm wrong...but history is telling me otherwise since you played "the victim" card.

 

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