youtube video claims it's for the majority of users but since I have no soapbox I can't refute it

[thanosinevitable]

"yO hElLo HoMieS mY nAmE Is LiFE oF rIo

today gonna tell u bout how Steve Sinclair beard is ruining warframe OMG i can't believe it content drough dsadsadfdsijfdjoisj"

life of rio in a nut shell

 

[Legion-Shields]

1 minute ago, thanosinevitable said:

"yO hElLo HoMieS mY nAmE Is LiFE oF rIo

today gonna tell u bout how Steve Sinclair beard is ruining warframe OMG i can't believe it content drough dsadsadfdsijfdjoisj"

life of rio in a nut shell

 

Looks like you’re on a roll today. 

[Legion-Shields]

1 hour ago, Nirrel said:

Not sure what other "take" I could have. Finished the video right now, and the only thing that I see here that you deliberately did go out of your way to misinterpret 50% of it starting with your very first statment in your OP (the 0.08 mark), and then comment on the rest taking random frases completely out of context just to do the same.

It seems that you didn't only disagree with the guy but taken proper offense that he sees thing differently than you and came on the forums to whine. Not sure why, considering that he did not post it here. So my take is still the same...

 

 

 

oh SNAP

[thanosinevitable]

1 hour ago, Nirrel said:

Not sure what other "take" I could have. Finished the video right now, and the only thing that I see here that you deliberately did go out of your way to misinterpret 50% of it starting with your very first statment in your OP (the 0.08 mark), and then comment on the rest taking random frases completely out of context just to do the same.

It seems that you didn't only disagree with the guy but taken proper offense that he sees thing differently than you and came on the forums to whine. Not sure why, considering that he did not post it here. So my take is still the same...

 

 

 

u dare oppose me, mortal

[Arniox]

3 hours ago, AugustFestival said:

tbh if devs listen too much you just get tyranny of the perceived majority and its gross, it happens in games like league of legends where you get a vocal part of the community who hates a certain character and gets them nerfed into uselessness, you have to be VERY careful with this, otherwise you get more embers.

Yeah like that one BR game that killed itself when the devs listened to LITERALLY Everyone. every single idea put forward was put into the game and totally killed it cause you got a hideous mix of good ideas and trash ideas 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Never listen to YouTubers about the state of the game. Youtube for warframe is useful for how do I do blank, builds, and shy's memes

Youtuber's opinions on the game are heavily biased and usually only line up with small amount of others opinions(excluding the people who parrot their views).  If you want partner who lines up more with the average player go to any of the twitch partners, they're more representive of the general playerbase.

Edited May 23, 2019 by (XB1)The Neko Otaku

[ColPresumptuous]

4 Years playing for me...

He mentions its not about his content and viewing numbers etc... then mentions many times that in the old days he used to get lots of people watching his streams or got people wanting to join in on his void runs etc.

The fact he likes the old Key system invalidates his arguments in total imho... Give me Relics any day of the week over that old system thank you very much. he talks of only wanting to do captures etc for relics since its time efficient but... sure, but id rather stay in a good competent group for 20 waves of fissure defense and open 4 relics than run the same capture over and over and over again with a new group or solo talking to no one and getting mentally stressed from the quick repetitive missions... having to do the old 30+ minute survivals to get the item you wanted from your key run (i mean CHANCE of getting your item within that rotation, unlike Relics where there is more refined RNG you can at least have a good chance of getting that Rare part everyones wanting after only a 5 wave or so instead of doing a 30minute Void Run with a key and getting nothing you wanted) wasnt fun and a drop or a host migration screwed it over wasting 'time'.

Raids?.. i tried getting into a raid once, basically told me i needed to have been in the raid before (even though id watched a bunch of videos on how to do them) to join the raid... I never raided, and care not for the fact they got removed. I do however enjoy doing Eidolons for my Arcanes though and tend to only run PuGs for Tridolons... is it efficent? nope but ive got a nice amount of arcanes now and moving nicely through my focus schools, I get friended from people who I work well with, getting a quick 3x3 or a 4x3 in a pug group is enjoyable when it happens and even if they arent that good and we get only a 2x3 or less i can still mostly carry and it gives new players a dry run of it to learn from.

Ive noticed a few 'veteran' WF content creators doing this argument over the last year or more and it does just baffle me why they have the issues. Videos like his are fine, they can do videos how ever they like it just they aggravate me given they remind me to much of the anti SJW style rant vids you get about things like Doctor Who, Captian Marvel etc from certain types of Tubers... it just comes down to, if you dont like it any more just stop playing/watching? if your burnt out just stop playing/watching?

 

Things change, adapt or deal with it really... and from this (I consider myself) Veteran I havent found any changes to my dislike yet.

Edited May 23, 2019 by ColPresumptuous

[AugustFestival]

6 hours ago, Arniox said:

Yeah like that one BR game that killed itself when the devs listened to LITERALLY Everyone. every single idea put forward was put into the game and totally killed it cause you got a hideous mix of good ideas and trash ideas 

omg do you know what it was called? I need to use this as an example to put in peoples faces when they dont understand that devs listening to everything the community wants is horrible

overwatch does it too, ugh, it seems like most pvp games end up doing it.

[AugustFestival]

5 hours ago, ColPresumptuous said:

4 Years playing for me...

He mentions its not about his content and viewing numbers etc... then mentions many times that in the old days he used to get lots of people watching his streams or got people wanting to join in on his void runs etc.

The fact he likes the old Key system invalidates his arguments in total imho... Give me Relics any day of the week over that old system thank you very much. he talks of only wanting to do captures etc for relics since its time efficient but... sure, but id rather stay in a good competent group for 20 waves of fissure defense and open 4 relics than run the same capture over and over and over again with a new group or solo talking to no one and getting mentally stressed from the quick repetitive missions... having to do the old 30+ minute survivals to get the item you wanted from your key run (i mean CHANCE of getting your item within that rotation, unlike Relics where there is more refined RNG you can at least have a good chance of getting that Rare part everyones wanting after only a 5 wave or so instead of doing a 30minute Void Run with a key and getting nothing you wanted) wasnt fun and a drop or a host migration screwed it over wasting 'time'.

Raids?.. i tried getting into a raid once, basically told me i needed to have been in the raid before (even though id watched a bunch of videos on how to do them) to join the raid... I never raided, and care not for the fact they got removed. I do however enjoy doing Eidolons for my Arcanes though and tend to only run PuGs for Tridolons... is it efficent? nope but ive got a nice amount of arcanes now and moving nicely through my focus schools, I get friended from people who I work well with, getting a quick 3x3 or a 4x3 in a pug group is enjoyable when it happens and even if they arent that good and we get only a 2x3 or less i can still mostly carry and it gives new players a dry run of it to learn from.

Ive noticed a few 'veteran' WF content creators doing this argument over the last year or more and it does just baffle me why they have the issues. Videos like his are fine, they can do videos how ever they like it just they aggravate me given they remind me to much of the anti SJW style rant vids you get about things like Doctor Who, Captian Marvel etc from certain types of Tubers... it just comes down to, if you dont like it any more just stop playing/watching? if your burnt out just stop playing/watching?

 

Things change, adapt or deal with it really... and from this (I consider myself) Veteran I havent found any changes to my dislike yet.

you seem rad do you wana add me : ooo its ok if you dont, you just seem rad : OOO

Also highfive!!! another person who prefers endless missions for opening fissures, defense, survival and interception are fun because I can just zone out and listen to my podcasts while doing them

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

On 2019-05-22 at 9:22 AM, Sloan441 said:

This.

When you get down to it, anyone on YT is just some guy uploading stuff to the 'net. He's not of any significance. 

At best, the stuff on YT is entertainment. At worst, well, it's no different than people ranting on gaming websites--any Blizzard website will show you the quality of what you can expect.

In the same vein, I was given some advice many years ago by a gaming friend: if you like a game, don't go to its official forums. The rampant negativity just wears you down. Same thing with YT. 

Ignore it and drive on. 

Way too late for me, I love the forums, everyone is brutally honest, even if they always think they're better than someone else.

Edited May 23, 2019 by (PS4)ErydisTheLucario

[AshenHaze]

On 2019-05-22 at 8:15 AM, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Remember when DE listened to the Design Council instead of content creators? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Isn't that the group that really wasn't liked all that much save for the inner crowd and never really designed anything positive to the game and when China stepped in disregarded the whole lot because they realized how nonprofitable their ideas were?

[EmberStar]

1 hour ago, AshenHaze said:

Isn't that the group that really wasn't liked all that much save for the inner crowd and never really designed anything positive to the game and when China stepped in disregarded the whole lot because they realized how nonprofitable their ideas were?

I couldn't say.  Since from what I remember, the first rule of the Design Council... is that you don't talk about the Design Council.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

On 2019-05-22 at 9:33 AM, YazMatazO said:

One good point--no need for co-op. 

I rarely take youtube seriously, but from the 5ish minutes I listened to the guy this stood out to me. I won't argue about anything, his validity included, but the point that there is less and less incentive for co-op play shouldn't be ignored. 

Group play is heavily rewarded in Warframe. Which is a good thing.

To FORCE group-play will push the Solo & small group players out which would overall hurt Warframe more than many can comprehend.

1 of Warframe's BIGGEST draws believe it or not is its accessibility. It is a game that rewards Solo & Co-op alike, can be played in small increments, & long increments.

The fact that encounters & etc can be done solo also allows players to learn the game without being drowned in the toxicity of groupplay.

Put your finger down! I'M NOT DONE.

Groupplay toxicity often stems from impatience & a lack of desire to teach. Many games try to encourage positive interaction but they cannot force it.

Hell, Ropalolyst recruiting chat was already demanding people "Know the Fight", "Must have ___ Frame, know fight, & ___ focus school." 30 minutes after the fight came out in the game.

Too many co-op players forget that watching a guide/video doesn't equal skill. So many of them exclude, berate, belittle, & are toxic to those who are learning the game.

My point?

The fact DE always considers Solo players allows players to learn the game, the mechanics, & develop their own skillset at their own pace, as well as in a way that doesn't ruin/impact the experience of 3 other players.

This is one reason why Warframe actually retains players who survive the early game mess.

After these players develop themselves they start joining public squads, etc. And not for a carry, but to actually contribute.

Even FF14 struggles with this actually. Finally the devs of that game have even admitted that they need to find time to make the game more solo accessible because many players do not want to replay old content (which is new for fresh new players), teach old encounters, & etc.

They want to reduce the toxicity of the game because many players have started leaving due to it. (I guess they have some sort of survey when you unsub?)

Right now, loot, rewards, experience(affinity, difficulty (its easier), & completion speed are all dramatically improved & rewarded by co-op play. 4x the relics, 4x the affinity, revives, trivialized bosses (Eidolons & Orbs are a joke in a group of people who have some sort of brain).

Solo, the game is a much more challenging & yes less rewarding experience. But the fact it doesn't penalize players (coughdestinycough) is a huge plus.

[YazMatazO]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Group play is heavily rewarded in Warframe. Which is a good thing.

To FORCE group-play will push the Solo & small group players out which would overall hurt Warframe more than many can comprehend.

1 of Warframe's BIGGEST draws believe it or not is its accessibility. It is a game that rewards Solo & Co-op alike, can be played in small increments, & long increments.

The fact that encounters & etc can be done solo also allows players to learn the game without being drowned in the toxicity of groupplay.

Put your finger down! I'M NOT DONE.

Groupplay toxicity often stems from impatience & a lack of desire to teach. Many games try to encourage positive interaction but they cannot force it.

Hell, Ropalolyst recruiting chat was already demanding people "Know the Fight", "Must have ___ Frame, know fight, & ___ focus school." 30 minutes after the fight came out in the game.

Too many co-op players forget that watching a guide/video doesn't equal skill. So many of them exclude, berate, belittle, & are toxic to those who are learning the game.

My point?

The fact DE always considers Solo players allows players to learn the game, the mechanics, & develop their own skillset at their own pace, as well as in a way that doesn't ruin/impact the experience of 3 other players.

This is one reason why Warframe actually retains players who survive the early game mess.

After these players develop themselves they start joining public squads, etc. And not for a carry, but to actually contribute.

Even FF14 struggles with this actually. Finally the devs of that game have even admitted that they need to find time to make the game more solo accessible because many players do not want to replay old content (which is new for fresh new players), teach old encounters, & etc.

They want to reduce the toxicity of the game because many players have started leaving due to it. (I guess they have some sort of survey when you unsub?)

Right now, loot, rewards, experience(affinity, difficulty (its easier), & completion speed are all dramatically improved & rewarded by co-op play. 4x the relics, 4x the affinity, revives, trivialized bosses (Eidolons & Orbs are a joke in a group of people who have some sort of brain).

Solo, the game is a much more challenging & yes less rewarding experience. But the fact it doesn't penalize players (coughdestinycough) is a huge plus.

Fair enough. 

And then again... 

When people have things like Maiming Strike, they don't really need anything from a squad rather than the numbers so that they can grind faster. That's exactly how I see that point, and as far as other comments around have indicated, it passes for co-op. But it isn't co-op, per se.   

Instead, what I am talking about is actively supporting the people you play with. That doesn't necessarily mean skill and/or a meta that goes skewed towards only the most optimal(whatever the hell that means, honestly!). How often do I see an Inaros who leaves a mob for me to consume? Rarely. And that's just one example. 

The reason why I like the point about the declining co-op is precisely because it should never be forgotten or allowed to... well, decline. This game uses scaling and spawns more numbers when there is a squad. I see no reason why it should stop there.  

Also, as far as toxicity is concerned--players will always find something to *@##$ about. If a Nova player who goes slow into a defence mission is flamed because of it... well, that also happens in Warframe :D. 

[Kimimoto]

On 2019-05-22 at 10:03 AM, Zyga21 said:

that makes me pretty angry because this guy claims he's speaking for all the players

REEEEEEEEEEEE

[Zyga21]

Just now, Kimimoto said:

REEEEEEEEEEEE

precisely 

[Nomasto]

I feel like youtubers ike him just make people Leave warframe. His opinion is not even based on opinion of players, it's HIs opinion, and he speaks it as it would be opinion of the whole community. It is like greving of person that personally grew bored of the game, and wants to cry about it, hoping for pat in the head, or the community following him, saying "YEEEEES, THE GAME IS BAAAAD, YOU'RE SOOOOO RIIIIGHT"L

Look, Flyyn, Rahe makes good points, and helpfull videos. He does NOT complain, he gives ADVICES as of what to change, and DE listens to him. Why DE doesn't listen to you, Ask yourself? You shouldn't even be a partner, you only complain without making fair points.

 I'm playing this game for almost 4 years arleady. I grew bored from time to time, but never for longer than a month, and when i came back, i was playing for months and months again, because there's a lot to do, if you just wont follow the current "meta", and do whatever the hell you personally want to do. 

 

I think Flyn Has some problems, like:

1. He's literally addicted to Warframe, im not sure if he even plays any other games at this point. Just warframe warframe warframe, warframe. This Can nicely explain his burn-out.

2. Superiority complex in case of his community behavior. I feel like Flynn sees whole community of Warframe as absolete, bad and terrible to play with, and only sees his "mates" as a reasonable people to play with. He's very wrong, because community here is the key for fun. Look at "better name pending" clan. He knows how to have fun. (Im in better clan pending myself, dayren is awesome person as the whole clan is)

3. He tries to be "the best" in game, in which you simply Can not be the best. You should be yourself, not Force yourself into being top eidolon Hunter, or some PRO TOP ELITE player. You should play at the pace you want,. And not neccesarly do only "the hardest" content. It's sometimes funny to spend 1-2 hours in low/medium level survival mission and just slice everything with melee, thiusands of infested. It's really funny.

4. It kinda adds to point 3, so. It's not always the best idea to bring Saryn for fast defense clearing, Limbo to afk at terminala in mobile defense. Why? Because that's NOT how you have fun. That's how you play the game to be "the best", but playing with such warframe renders you in afk-position most of the run. Is it fun? Ask yourself, i think not. Try to take some funny weapons instead, grab some warframe you barelly use, and have fun with it, trust me.

 

That's my opinion, i can't believe i used to subscribe to this guy. I was stupid.

 

I wonder if he even ever used Vauban, because his kit is able to make game really funny if you want to. Not really good, but funny. Nice if you're burned out of saryn for each game, flyn. Use more of other people arguments, but please, try to give constructive suggestions to it aswell. You're really useless. If you want a change, Leave constructive feedback for DE, like Rahe does, or a lot of forum users does. You're just steammy, useless person, that got partner tittle for making manipulative videos and complaining.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Nomasto

[Zyga21]

1 hour ago, Nomasto said:

his kit is able to make game really funny if you want to.

I had to pick this out and say vauban's furious balls are very fun. But overall agree.

[LarryYourWaiter]

Itt:  different people have different, sometimes even opposing opinions.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

8 hours ago, YazMatazO said:

Instead, what I am talking about is actively supporting the people you play with. That doesn't necessarily mean skill and/or a meta that goes skewed towards only the most optimal(whatever the hell that means, honestly!). How often do I see an Inaros who leaves a mob for me to consume? Rarely. And that's just one example. 

The reason why I like the point about the declining co-op is precisely because it should never be forgotten or allowed to... well, decline. This game uses scaling and spawns more numbers when there is a squad. I see no reason why it should stop there.  

Also, as far as toxicity is concerned--players will always find something to *@##$ about. If a Nova player who goes slow into a defence mission is flamed because of it... well, that also happens in Warframe :D. 

Good points as well.
(Also, thank you for not taking my original post as aggressive. After waking up & checking the forums I reread it and was like: "Hmm...my tone reads more aggressively than I intended.)
Does the game really stop with scaling & spawns? I mean, the increase in loot (admittedly comes along with the increase in enemy number) also factors in.

The problem with games like Warframe is that "support characters" end up going unplayed in the long run.
There is no true trinity system in these games, so co-op is more or less limited to playing with each other, synergy when allowed, & reaping the innate benefits of teamwork.

Let's take Trinity for example, she is basically THE Support Frame. She is all about supporting the team.
However, outside of Eidolons, Orbs, and pre-made groups attempting to play some form of mode that requires/might require healing or massive amounts of energy, how often do you really see Trinity?

In action games like Warframe, Support Roles (like CC roles...) tend to just be lacking in the bigger picture. Survivability is king, the characters that dodge, block, evade, nullify, & kill quickly will always be the go to characters & thus supporting others becomes more of a "I support others by doing high dps & never being killed."
Even Destiny moved away from pure support roles in favor of giving each class 1 support ability (that has variants) while the rest of the kit focuses on DPS.

[YazMatazO]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Good points as well.
(Also, thank you for not taking my original post as aggressive. After waking up & checking the forums I reread it and was like: "Hmm...my tone reads more aggressively than I intended.)
Does the game really stop with scaling & spawns? I mean, the increase in loot (admittedly comes along with the increase in enemy number) also factors in.

The problem with games like Warframe is that "support characters" end up going unplayed in the long run.
There is no true trinity system in these games, so co-op is more or less limited to playing with each other, synergy when allowed, & reaping the innate benefits of teamwork.

Let's take Trinity for example, she is basically THE Support Frame. She is all about supporting the team.
However, outside of Eidolons, Orbs, and pre-made groups attempting to play some form of mode that requires/might require healing or massive amounts of energy, how often do you really see Trinity?

In action games like Warframe, Support Roles (like CC roles...) tend to just be lacking in the bigger picture. Survivability is king, the characters that dodge, block, evade, nullify, & kill quickly will always be the go to characters & thus supporting others becomes more of a "I support others by doing high dps & never being killed."
Even Destiny moved away from pure support roles in favor of giving each class 1 support ability (that has variants) while the rest of the kit focuses on DPS.

Trinity is my main. I can do solo survival Corpus Arbitrations with her down to one and a half hour. I simply haven't progressed past that point because, well, it's one and a half hour sitting in one and the same spot so I want to do something else in the end :D. Not to mention all the 'meta' frames I've resurrected, or the jolly good time we end up having when I team up with Mags. 

That said, I play her mostly in public games, and I always lean towards supporting my squad, as well as all the other things(a mix of both, if you will). Do you know which is the most fun mode to play with her? It's Defection Infestation Arbitration. If you know what you're doing there you can get rotations faster than survival. Yet, it's a mode that is not played by a lot of people, because it's believed to be slow. That is the impression of those who pedestalize efficiency in grinding, btw. That leads to less, ahem, 'skilled' players playing the mode. Although 'skilled' in this sense usually means people who don't bother with mass opinion. Add in to that an objective where killing quick certainly helps, but is not essential(you actually don't need to kill that much at all), and you end up with a very fun mix. It even gets more fun when you have to revive somebody and take care of two squads of defectors on two opposite side of the map. 

The quick grinding mentality ultimately hurts the game, and if everybody are going with absolutely the most optimal thing(thank God they don't) we'd end up with an extremely boring game in the end. You see, you need some stakes in order for a game to be fun. Even if people say they enjoy being the unkillable god of WF, that gets old so quick. 

Lastly, increase in loot is the thing that is actually forcing people to make squads. It's the poorest substitute for co-op gameplay.

PS: for the record I think it's fair to say that I am a player who no longer cares about the rewards. I only want the gameplay. 

[Sloan441]

19 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Way too late for me, I love the forums, everyone is brutally honest, even if they always think they're better than someone else.

Well, I don't really follow that advice (obviously). Never have. I have a morbid fascination with forums and this game is much, much better than most in that regard. 

However, it's something to keep in mind when perusing forums or watching whatever pops up on YT. It keeps whatever you're looking at in perspective. 

[ZeroBladeTV]

Quote

"why would I be excited for the next update if I finish it in a week" because you play it for that whole week and enjoy the game for the time you do play it. It shouldn't De's problem that you burn yourself out on it, but it is because people do.

uh, a week? i blew up through the new content in less than 2 days. i wish it was a week

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 2019-05-22 at 10:21 AM, (XB1)Dredd1973 said:

I don't watch YouTubers.

Don't understand how our society reached a point we make people playing games famous.

To me video games are for playing, not to just watch someone else play them.

Also, opinions, especially you tube streamers, are like butt holes. Everyone has one and they're usually just as smelly.

 

That's a rather simple concept to understand.  Video games have ascended beyond a past time.  It's an art form.  It's an entertainment vehicle and entertainment is a big industry.  That creates jobs all over the place.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I've never personally enjoyed this person's opinions so it doesn't surprise me that they've made a video like this.  Guy is just spent from playing the game far too much.  And any valuable statement or worthwhile opinion that may have been stated in the video is severally hurt by the general perspective/attitude that is being pushed from the video.  It's heavily influenced by nostalgia as well which makes it very hard to give an accurate and objective opinion.

I miss aspects of key sharing too and the relic system certainly isn't flawless.  But it's far more of a healthier experience for players and the game as a whole how it is currently compared to the very ugly aspects of the old system.  What little was positive about the old system doesn't out do all the harm it brought.